Thor 7,596 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 You are Spielberg's bitch! And proud of it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSM 126 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 You mean, what was the one score Jerry did where over half of it was re-arrangements of existing material, by his orchestrators?SCHINDLER'S LIST is far from being a pinnacle of artistic integrity.Schindler's isn't a favourite of mine, eitherit's always damn SCHINDLER that has the burden of bearing the masterpiece medal.I'll be honest, in approach Schindler's List is certainly not the most original work of JW's career.Schindler's List [the score] is an overrated pile of corn syrup.I've never been able to get into the score.Schindler's List is an unsatisfying listen for meJohn Williams still did not deliverTypically JWFan. Without doubt one of the best film scores ever written, by one of the best (film) composers who ever lived, burnt down to the ground on his own fan site. I'm sure the score receives more respect on the Hans ZImmer fanpage. SHAME on you who call yourselves John Williams fans. I am serious. There's two pages of this crap, so don't hide behind irony of sarcasm this time. Admitted, to each his own, but for God's sake, if you can't see the quality of Schindler's List, what are you doing here?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Trilogy 39 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I agree with K.K. Schindler's List is a masterpiece and one of the greatest. And Schindler's List is art. Most people have problems, because it has no action and the orchestration is classical, it is a more gentle music. But that's not a criteria of being good music, if it has action and dynamics.And this score is far better than Jurassic Park. Don't get me wrong, Jurassic Park is also brilliant, but Schindler's List tops it.EDIT: Thank you MSM, finally someone with clear words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 MSM, Schindler's is an excellent score, just not one of my own personal favourites, that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I agree with K.K. Schindler's List is a masterpiece and one of the greatest. And Schindler's List is art. Most people have problems, because it has no action and the orchestration is classical, it is a more gentle music. But that's not a criteria of being good music, if it has action and dynamics.And this score is far better than Jurassic Park. Don't get me wrong, Jurassic Park is also brilliant, but Schindler's List tops it.EDIT: Thank you MSM, finally someone with clear words.Ahhh, it only needed 40 messages till the old IT'S ART! declamation rears it's ugly head. But when JURASSIC PARK is 'brilliant', SL surely is 'art'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 They're both alright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 Honestly, i don't buy into to the rather cynical deconstruction of the score either. Up until the admittedly melodramatic (albeit comparatively muted) "I could have done more" finale, I don't think Williams put a foot wrong. And even then i forgive him (and Spielberg). The scene is an important catharsis for the character and the music reflects that more subtly than it might have done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck 155 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I was kinda expecting a lot of bashing on Jerry Goldsmith since, you know, this is JWFan. But I didn't expect of all the scores JTW made, SL gets a lot of heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSM 126 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I suggest the critics listen to the score once more with open ears. A track like 'Making the List', dripping of excitement, brilliance and introvert emotion. This is JW at his best.I was kinda expecting a lot of bashing on Jerry Goldsmith since, you know, this is JWFan. But I didn't expect of all the scores JTW made, SL gets a lot of heat.Goldsmith is treated here with utmost respect...unlike JW for some reason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 No, you're just magnifying the issue. Would you prefer it if we all fawned over the maestro all day long? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSM 126 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 No, you're just magnifying the issue. Would you prefer it if we all fawned over the maestro all day long?Of course not, but this place sometimes feels like any fan site but a John Williams fan site...and just because of remakrs that I regard as dishonest or made just for the sake of making a statement or being rebellious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 and just because of remakrs that I regard as dishonest or made just for the sake of making a statement or being rebellious.I do think there's some truth in that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,723 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 and just because of remakrs that I regard as dishonest or made just for the sake of making a statement or being rebellious.I do think there's some truth in that.I am fawning over your sentiment. Quite right sir, quite right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedwig 5 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Honestly, i don't buy into to the rather cynical deconstruction of the score either. Up until the admittedly melodramatic (albeit comparatively muted) "I could have done more" finale, I don't think Williams put a foot wrong. And even then i forgive him (and Spielberg). The scene is an important catharsis for the character and the music reflects that more subtly than it might have done.Even if you believe that the finale of 'i could have done more' is over dramatic, which is understandable, it is such a wonderful moment musically. The rest of the strings play the theme and you have the gorgeous solo violin playing over, I'm a violin player myself and one day I would love to play this, whether being the soloist or in the main section of the orchestra. One of my favourite moments from the score. And I personally think the music works fantastically in the film as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSM 126 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Honestly, i don't buy into to the rather cynical deconstruction of the score either. Up until the admittedly melodramatic (albeit comparatively muted) "I could have done more" finale, I don't think Williams put a foot wrong. And even then i forgive him (and Spielberg). The scene is an important catharsis for the character and the music reflects that more subtly than it might have done.Even if you believe that the finale of 'i could have done more' is over dramatic, which is understandable, it is such a wonderful moment musically. The rest of the strings play the theme and you have the gorgeous solo violin playing over, I'm a violin player myself and one day I would love to play this, whether being the soloist or in the main section of the orchestra. One of my favourite moments from the score. And I personally think the music works fantastically in the film as well As a violinist myself, I fully agree here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Brigden 7 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 No, you're just magnifying the issue. Would you prefer it if we all fawned over the maestro all day long?Of course not, but this place sometimes feels like any fan site but a John Williams fan site...and just because of remakrs that I regard as dishonest or made just for the sake of making a statement or being rebellious.You want to quote some of these remarks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hlao-roo 389 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 If you don't like Schindler's List, you don't like great film music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,723 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 If you don't like Schindler's List, you don't like great film music.If you are not with me, you're against me. There is no middle ground when it comes to film music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Trilogy 39 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I agree with K.K. Schindler's List is a masterpiece and one of the greatest. And Schindler's List is art. Most people have problems, because it has no action and the orchestration is classical, it is a more gentle music. But that's not a criteria of being good music, if it has action and dynamics.And this score is far better than Jurassic Park. Don't get me wrong, Jurassic Park is also brilliant, but Schindler's List tops it.EDIT: Thank you MSM, finally someone with clear words.Ahhh, it only needed 40 messages till the old IT'S ART! declamation rears it's ugly head. But when JURASSIC PARK is 'brilliant', SL surely is 'art'.I think you missunderstood my post. I would not - I repeat not - consider Jurassic Park as one of the greatest scores ever written. But definately Schindler's List. I chose this example because both scores were composed in 1993. Also, I read on another thread that Jurassic Park is the better score, instead of Schindler's List, where I totally disagree. Jurassic Park is a very good score of Williams oevre, not more and not less.And it is not only my thinking that Schindler's List is one of the greatest scores. Most people which have to do with music (especially classical music) will tell you the same. Schindler's List is art. Live with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,596 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 If you don't like Schindler's List, you don't like great film music.He, he.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Wow, I did not know I was in the minority here with my respect for Schindler's List. But I guess I would be the only one who would rate it as my favourite Williams score. I honestly think no other film composer has swept me off emotionally as JW did SL and I don't think the maestro himself can master that level of emotional gravity.I'm with ya! When people ask me what I think is the "best" film of all time, I usually respond with SCHINDLER. It's just a rare instance of pure perfection, IMO. And that extends to the music as well. It's not often that I play the soundtrack, but that's because I have to be so emotionally prepared for it.....and it's actually less to do with the Holocaust associations (I tend to separate myself from the movie when I listen to soundtrack), and more to do with the harrowing, but beautiful quality of the music itself.Thank you Thor, well said! The score for Schindler's List (along with the film) is that rare moment of "pure perfection". God knows, it might have been a fluke (which I seriously doubt), but Williams somehow miraculously struck that emotional core which clearly had a universal impact (as it later defined the genre). No film score has ever moved me emotionally as Schindler's List did and even Williams' attempts at striking that sound again (in portions of Munich) never reaches the same impact. This is why no re-recording of Schindler's List will ever live up to the original. And the music is the perfect match for the film. I don't think the music is ever over done with even its most robust moments perfectly matching the film. Why do you guys assume something atonal like Penderecki would have been right for the film? Thats not what the film was going for, nor is it what the film is about. Auschwitz Birkenau is a haunting cue, but the key to Schindler's List is the heart-breaking beauty and its simplicity. It was perfect for the film and in a way that's hard to explain is VERY emotionally engaging.I repeat, aesthetically it is a very 'safe' score, an OSCAR score with easily digestible neo-romantic stylings and a violin added on top for ye olde jewish flavour. I found it much too Delerue-y for its subject back in 1993 and cannot divorce it from the film it was made for and find the tea-room sadness of it a bit too on the nose. But i will not try to f..k you over with this, you love it as you should.But the thing is, what exactly would have been appropriate for you? The film would certainly not have worked if you slapped something like Threnody to the Victims of Hiroshima on to the picture. That kind of film demanded Williams score and I don't think anyone (including the maestro) could have done a better job. To me, its not just enjoyable music, its actually something far more than that (at least to me). But hey, different strokes for different folks I guess Ahhh, it only needed 40 messages till the old IT'S ART! declamation rears it's ugly head. But when JURASSIC PARK is 'brilliant', SL surely is 'art'.He-he. You have no idea how hard I was trying to stay away from that word so that you wouldn't blow a gasket over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUMENKOHL 1,070 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 You mean, what was the one score Jerry did where over half of it was re-arrangements of existing material, by his orchestrators?SCHINDLER'S LIST is far from being a pinnacle of artistic integrity.Schindler's isn't a favourite of mine, eitherit's always damn SCHINDLER that has the burden of bearing the masterpiece medal.I'll be honest, in approach Schindler's List is certainly not the most original work of JW's career.Schindler's List [the score] is an overrated pile of corn syrup.I've never been able to get into the score.Schindler's List is an unsatisfying listen for meJohn Williams still did not deliverTypically JWFan.If by that you mean to point out how it's diverse, rich, and stimulating, I completely agree. I can't for the life of me fathom why anyone would want waste time at a place where everyone holds the same exact set of tastes, holds the same opinion on everything and then pat each other on the ass about it. Sometimes I think some people would be happier setting up "The Church of Our Dear Lord and Savior John Williams." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 You mean, what was the one score Jerry did where over half of it was re-arrangements of existing material, by his orchestrators?SCHINDLER'S LIST is far from being a pinnacle of artistic integrity.Schindler's isn't a favourite of mine, eitherit's always damn SCHINDLER that has the burden of bearing the masterpiece medal.I'll be honest, in approach Schindler's List is certainly not the most original work of JW's career.Schindler's List [the score] is an overrated pile of corn syrup.I've never been able to get into the score.Schindler's List is an unsatisfying listen for meJohn Williams still did not deliverTypically JWFan.If by that you mean to point out how it's diverse, rich, and stimulating, I completely agree. I can't for the life of me fathom why anyone would want waste time at a place where everyone holds the same exact set of tastes, holds the same opinion on everything and then pat each other on the ass about it. I think that pretty much sums up the Hans Zimmer fansite for ya Sometimes I think some people would be happier setting up "The Church of Our Dear Lord and Savior John Williams."You mean we don't have that yet?! So the altar I've been praying to daily was never founded upon an accepted faith? Thats a shame...well its better late than ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUMENKOHL 1,070 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Please update your post quote to reflect updated Church literature with The Five Holy Apostles.Blessed be thine ears, brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck 155 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I would've joined but I'm partial to the fallen martyr Saint Jerry Goldsmith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck 155 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I would've joined but I'm partial to the fallen martyr Saint Jerry Goldsmith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 But the thing is, what exactly would have been appropriate for you? The film would certainly not have worked if you slapped something like Threnody to the Victims of Hiroshima on to the picture. That kind of film demanded Williams score and I don't think anyone (including the maestro) could have done a better job. To me, its not just enjoyable music, its actually something far more than that (at least to me). But hey, different strokes for different folks I guess Running in circles can be fun. But since i'm actually quite content with bursting the Schindler bubble once in a while, i will give it a rest from here. No wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandor 798 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Schindler's List is a great, beautiful score and arguably John Williams' finest dramatic composition. The score is a winner in every regard. So what score can we trash next: Star Wars? E.T.? Jaws? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 And it is not only my thinking that Schindler's List is one of the greatest scores. Most people which have to do with music (especially classical music) will tell you the same. Schindler's List is art. Live with it.I don't have to live with your delusions. The day may come where classical purists listen to cuddly melancholia á la like SCHINDLER and proclaim it art, but it's still far, far away.Schindler's List is a great, beautiful score and arguably John Williams' finest dramatic composition. The score is a winner in every regard.So what score can we trash next: Star Wars? E.T.? Jaws?You're a bit late to the party and your opinion is...BOOOORING. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,302 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I dont dislike Schindlers List. Its just not Jurassic Park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck 155 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I dont dislike Schindlers List. Its just not Jurassic Park.Plus I have fond childhood memories watching JP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,646 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Schindler's List is just like any other film who gets awarded because of the subject matter, and not because of cinematic qualities or accurate and unbiased portrayal of history.It's not any less black/white painting than Raiders Of The Lost Ark, the only difference is the cinematic appraoch.Williams could have written a Mozart-level symphony for this film, I still wouldn't have sympathies because I don't have sympathies for movies that promote historic cliches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,596 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 This board baffles me sometimes. Quite often, in fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,302 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I wasnt talking about the films but the scores. I have symphaties for both films. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 If you don't like Schindler's List, you don't like great film music.It is his most Goldsmith-like score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hlao-roo 389 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 If you don't like Schindler's List, you don't like great film music.It is his most Goldsmith-like score.No. There is another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Holdo 16 Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 If you don't like Schindler's List, you don't like great film music.It is his most Goldsmith-like score.You sure about that? Not enough synth farts in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,402 Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 If you don't like Schindler's List, you don't like great film music.It is his most Goldsmith-like score.You sure about that? Not enough synth awesomeness in there!Fixed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck 155 Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 If you don't like Schindler's List, you don't like great film music.It is his most Goldsmith-like score.You sure about that? Not enough synth awesomeness in there!Fixed!Really, it's his Goldsmithian score? I would've thought The Lost World is the more Goldsmithian score.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Holdo 16 Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 If you don't like Schindler's List, you don't like great film music.It is his most Goldsmith-like score.You sure about that? Not enough synth awesomeness in there!Fixed!Good point, farts ARE awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 BuuurrrrRIP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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