Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Whatever the new theme that Doug mentioned from In the Shadow of the Mountain represents, its reappearance at the very end of the My Armor is Iron sample gives me some chills.Also it seems like what I thought might be an ondes martenot in A Liar and a Thief is actually the shakuhachi making a very non espressivo appearance. However... what happens to the strings right after that, at 23:37 of the Soundcloud file? Sounds manipulated. Is it just the recording quality? Am I just grasping at electronic straws? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnald 365 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2013/11/25/83271-first-review-howard-shores-soundtrack-for-the-hobbit-the-desolation-of-smaug/Make of this what you will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Let's quote that for posterity:Disc 2 of the soundtrack is all killer, no filler. SafeUnderHill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 On first listen, the Standard Edition of the soundtrack for The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug doesnt introduce that many new hooks.What?? I can hear loads of potential big themes from just 1 minute samples and they've heard the whole thing!The guy clearly isn't a big soundtrack collector, so probably couldn't identify half of the themes. Bilbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 To be honest that review reads as if it could have been written having just listened to the 60 second samples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 The stuff about no memorable new themes from AUJ shows his lack of knowledge IMO. Sure there was lost of re-used LOTR themes but there were loads of great new themes. You'd want to be tone deaf not to be able to whistle the Misty Mountains for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 WHAAAATTTT???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 He said he's an expert! SafeUnderHill and Dixon Hill 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted November 25, 2013 Author Share Posted November 25, 2013 On first listen, the Standard Edition of the soundtrack for The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug doesnt introduce that many new hooks.What?? I can hear loads of potential big themes from just 1 minute samples and they've heard the whole thing!The guy clearly isn't a big soundtrack collector, so probably couldn't identify half of the themes.The lack of a power anthem clearly drags the score down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 QUICK! We need to insert the fellowship theme somewhere in the score! TRACK IT FROM THE MORIA SECTION! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,349 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Yes because AUJ and LOTR had power anthems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted November 25, 2013 Author Share Posted November 25, 2013 Yes because AUJ and LOTR had power anthems. I like it when my jokes are being taken serious.But you probably can't argue that with all the stuff the new Zimmer-damaged generation is being bombarded with, subtle themes and implementations are probably not their cup of tea.Personally, what I've heard of the score, I find the atmosphere phenomenal. Bilbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Zimmer does really do great themes nowadays more just electronic sound and occasional motifI think you meant "doesn't". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted November 25, 2013 Author Share Posted November 25, 2013 Nah, closet fan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 While I liked demosthenes' short review, I honestly think they should let one of the film music fans and connoiseurs to review these scores! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 But they might end up being even more picky!That is what we need! To pick the scores apart! Most of us devoted fans would of course get technical and throw bazillion theme names into the review but boy it would be informative to film score fans! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 While I liked demosthenes' short review, I honestly think they should let one of the film music fans and connoiseurs to review these scores!Wow. That's basically a polite way of saying his review is pure shit!Actually no. He writes from more of a layman's perspective (well not entirely obviously) but I would have perhaps wanted someone more versed in these scores to write the first review and thus be able to comment on the themes and structure more thoroughly. But I think demosthenes was trying to convey something between these two extremes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted November 25, 2013 Author Share Posted November 25, 2013 While I liked demosthenes' short review, I honestly think they should let one of the film music fans and connoiseurs to review these scores!Wow. That's basically a polite way of saying his review is pure shit!Actually no. He writes from more of a layman's perspective (well not entirely obviously) but I would have perhaps wanted someone more versed in these scores to write the first review and thus be able to comment on the themes and structure more thoroughly.Well, what are you waiting for then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 While I liked demosthenes' short review, I honestly think they should let one of the film music fans and connoiseurs to review these scores!Wow. That's basically a polite way of saying his review is pure shit!Actually no. He writes from more of a layman's perspective (well not entirely obviously) but I would have perhaps wanted someone more versed in these scores to write the first review and thus be able to comment on the themes and structure more thoroughly.Well, what are you waiting for then?The CDs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 On of the 'most powerful' themes I've found in AUJ, thats comes close to the greatness of LOTR themes (ie Isengard) is the menacing Golbin theme (not the 3 note motif for them). It's such a shame it only appears once in the film or the CDs. Sad to hear it's cut short in the EE.Yea, that's a great theme. But there are plenty of great new themes in AUJ! How about Smaug's Theme, the Misty Mountain's theme, the journey theme, and uniqueness of Radagast's theme? And of course the fantastic Bilbo's Theme.... that's just a great theme (all 3 parts!) Bilbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 On of the 'most powerful' themes I've found in AUJ, thats comes close to the greatness of LOTR themes (ie Isengard) is the menacing Golbin theme (not the 3 note motif for them). It's such a shame it only appears once in the film or the CDs. Sad to hear it's cut short in the EE.Yea, that's a great theme. But there are plenty of great new themes in AUJ! How about Smaug's Theme, the Misty Mountain's theme, the journey theme, and uniqueness of Radagast's theme? And of course the fantastic Bilbo's Theme.... that's just a great theme (all 3 parts!)Yeap! A wealth of great themes in AUJ in my opinion also. I feel a close attachment to Thorin's and Erebor themes as well. I guess for me the stoic nobility of these ideas exemplifies something very dwarven that Shore has captured and am waiting to hear their development in DoS. Bilbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 On of the 'most powerful' themes I've found in AUJ, thats comes close to the greatness of LOTR themes (ie Isengard) is the menacing Golbin theme (not the 3 note motif for them). It's such a shame it only appears once in the film or the CDs. Sad to hear it's cut short in the EE.Which one's that? I'm only familiar with the three note ostinato. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 On of the 'most powerful' themes I've found in AUJ, thats comes close to the greatness of LOTR themes (ie Isengard) is the menacing Golbin theme (not the 3 note motif for them). It's such a shame it only appears once in the film or the CDs. Sad to hear it's cut short in the EE.Which one's that? I'm only familiar with the three note ostinato.Can you really call it a theme if it appears only a single time? Isn't that more of a singular moment of underscore than a theme?The 3-note ostinato is clearly the Goblins' main motif along with the lopsided rhythms that constantly change in their wake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 On of the 'most powerful' themes I've found in AUJ, thats comes close to the greatness of LOTR themes (ie Isengard) is the menacing Golbin theme (not the 3 note motif for them). It's such a shame it only appears once in the film or the CDs. Sad to hear it's cut short in the EE.Which one's that? I'm only familiar with the three note ostinato.He's talking about the theme on brass in Under Hill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 On of the 'most powerful' themes I've found in AUJ, thats comes close to the greatness of LOTR themes (ie Isengard) is the menacing Golbin theme (not the 3 note motif for them). It's such a shame it only appears once in the film or the CDs. Sad to hear it's cut short in the EE.Which one's that? I'm only familiar with the three note ostinato.He's talking about the theme on brass in Under HillIsn't that just an elaboration on the 3-note ostinato for that particular scene? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 On of the 'most powerful' themes I've found in AUJ, thats comes close to the greatness of LOTR themes (ie Isengard) is the menacing Golbin theme (not the 3 note motif for them). It's such a shame it only appears once in the film or the CDs. Sad to hear it's cut short in the EE.Yea, that's a great theme. But there are plenty of great new themes in AUJ! How about Smaug's Theme, the Misty Mountain's theme, the journey theme, and uniqueness of Radagast's theme? And of course the fantastic Bilbo's Theme.... that's just a great theme (all 3 parts!)Most of them weren't in the film! By the time of the film I wasn't that amazed by the MM theme, I'd been listening to it for a year already.Radagast and Bilbo's are superb, but I was reffering to those powerful, evil themes that were so brilliant in LOTR. The Golbin theme was the most similar to that. I'm not sure if it is a theme, more of a 'only plays once' kind of melody really.Again the bad guys have really a great set of themes and at the same time lining the path towards LotR. The Warg theme has to be my favourite of the bunch but the Dol Guldur material and Azog's theme all exude great menace and foreboding, which I find is lacking in much of modern film scoring. And of course Smaug's material is pretty wonderful too. Shore doesn't leave it ambiguous that evil is evil in his music, perhaps in an old fashioned way but I actually prefer it. P.S. I still remember watching the RotK EE and the Mouth of Sauron scene and being blown away by the absolutely brilliant snarlingly heavy set version of Evil of the Ring theme. Unashamedly melodramatic but oh so powerful moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 He said he's an expert!Damn! I've been waiting for the chance to use that one on here. SafeUnderHill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 On of the 'most powerful' themes I've found in AUJ, thats comes close to the greatness of LOTR themes (ie Isengard) is the menacing Golbin theme (not the 3 note motif for them). It's such a shame it only appears once in the film or the CDs. Sad to hear it's cut short in the EE.Which one's that? I'm only familiar with the three note ostinato.He's talking about the theme on brass in Under HillIsn't that just an elaboration on the 3-note ostinato for that particular scene?Is it? Well it works brilliantly with the grand entrance and is strong enough to be a recurring theme.Someone more versed in musical theory might either refute it or back me up on this.But I also liked the gleeful malice that the small motif was portraying in the scene. It was somehow like an irreverent evil squawking laughter of the creatures, so well portraying the Goblins.To me it is very natural that the Necromancer themes are supposed to be tied to the music of LotR as they form bridging material between the trilogies and have their origins in earlier thematic ideas. Shore treats these as sort of proto-forms of the Mordor themes that will probably gradually develop into their original forms during the Hobbit trilogy as Necromancer's true form and plans are revealed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted November 25, 2013 Author Share Posted November 25, 2013 While I liked demosthenes' short review, I honestly think they should let one of the film music fans and connoiseurs to review these scores!Wow. That's basically a polite way of saying his review is pure shit!Actually no. He writes from more of a layman's perspective (well not entirely obviously) but I would have perhaps wanted someone more versed in these scores to write the first review and thus be able to comment on the themes and structure more thoroughly.Well, what are you waiting for then?The CDs. Irrelevant detail. What do you have a Palantir for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Bilbo's Theme, Radagast's Theme, Misty Mountains theme, journey theme - those ARE "fresh new themes"! Once and Bilbo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 He said he's an expert!Damn! I've been waiting for the chance to use that one on here.Sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 On of the 'most powerful' themes I've found in AUJ, thats comes close to the greatness of LOTR themes (ie Isengard) is the menacing Golbin theme (not the 3 note motif for them). It's such a shame it only appears once in the film or the CDs. Sad to hear it's cut short in the EE.Which one's that? I'm only familiar with the three note ostinato.He's talking about the theme on brass in Under HillOh! THAT? I would half-agree with Incanus in that it's derived from the ostinato, in that it's based around a minor third. But I'd say it's a theme in its own right, even it's only appears in one cue - a sort of set-piece theme - much like the heroic theme that's stated twice in The Asteroid Field from ESTB - which in turn shares certain common features with both the Rebel Fanfare and Solo and the Princess.I would hardly call that Goblin theme 'great', though. That said, I never cared much for the Isengard theme, either. Far too heavy-handed and on the nose. If it wasn't for the 5/4 rhythm it would've been as clichéd as DEMM DAMM DUUUUUUMM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I agree with you Mr. Shark...sort of. I agree in the sense that it is more of a set-piece theme. I also agree it isn't exactly what you call a great theme per se.But it is an incredibly effective little motif with the kind of gleeful malice that perfectly accompanies the rodent like creatures on screen. I don't think one should look at that as an example of "great thematic writing", but rather as film scoring at its finest. Those thumping 3 notes with the aleatoric brass chattering away at the reveal shot of Goblintown is one of the best parts of the film. It's great stuff.And SUH, I'd hardly call the stuff we heard in the previews "development" of the Goblin motif. Shore uses that minor third bit quite often and it can be found all over the place in LotR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,349 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 The brass Goblin theme plays twice in the film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 P.S. I still remember watching the RotK EE and the Mouth of Sauron scene and being blown away by the absolutely brilliant snarlingly heavy set version of Evil of the Ring theme. Unashamedly melodramatic but oh so powerful moment.Unquestionably one of my favourite parts of all of LotR. You have no idea how many times I've played that cue just for that bit.Another similar moment I appreciate is "The Foot of Orthanc". All that churning and the snarling statements of Isengard and Gondor, oooh and that finale....LOVE it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,349 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I love how melancholic that track sounds, when compared to similar material in FOTR/TTT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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