Should Williams overhaul the Star Wars Main Theme for the reboot?

[Trent B 337]

This movie is definitely not a reboot. It'll most likely cover events from the "Expanded Universe" and after Return Of The Jedi. I'd love to see a series about Jedi Knight with Luke, Kyle Katarn and others.

For the main theme itself... if there are some changes to orchestration but mostly kept the same then I say go that route. That would be the most logical thing to do. Like a lot of you said people are familiarized with the current theme.

I too wish they had done new recordings of the Main Theme for each of the Prequels instead of re-using the version from TPM for AOTC and ROTS.

[TownerFan 4,983]

The new film will open with the classic arrangement of the SW Main Title, no question about it. You want people to get involved into familiar territory, not alienating them.

However, I see JW doing maybe some little sly variations in other spots, like the unexpected twist of the Raiders March coda in Indy IV end titles.

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

However, I see JW doing maybe some little sly variations in other spots, like the unexpected twist of the Raiders March coda in Indy IV end titles.

On second thought, perhaps he shouldn't touch the titles at all...

[Quintus 5,399]

Episode VII is not a reboot.

So far the one and only tangible connection to past movies in the franchise is John Williams. The composer. Everything else is Disney managed, and with powerful director JJ Abrams in control - arguably with greater influence than George Lucas.

It's as near as dammit a reboot as there ever was.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Quintus 5,399]

For a long time I used to think that Williams removed the timpani from the end of the first repetition of the A theme, until I noticed (only rather recently, in fact) that he merely toned it down (or perhaps up for the original recording).

Aye, it's still there, but instead of timpani he seemed to replace it with tuba or some such.

Episode VII is not a reboot.

So far the one and only tangible connection to past movies in the franchise is John Williams.

And Mark Hamill. And Harrison Ford. And Carrie Fisher. And I'm expecting Daniels and Baker to soon join the crew as well...

For now though they are TBA.

But that most powerful and important point still stands: Lucas is gone. Abrams has the big say now, just like he did for the Star Trek reboot

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Quintus 5,399]

That is exactly the opposite of what I'm vaguely and half heartedly hoping for.

If they do go down that road they are in grave danger of utter failure. I doubt they will though - because methinks Disney know the cynical internet is currently sick and bored of Star Wars. More of the same won't cut it. Abrams has been brought in to revamp the franchise, breath new life into it.

[karelm 2,913]

It would be nice if JW expanded the previous major themes the way he devolved Anakin theme from Vader. So Luke, Solo, Leah would have an "evolved" version.

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

For a long time I used to think that Williams removed the timpani from the end of the first repetition of the A theme, until I noticed (only rather recently, in fact) that he merely toned it down (or perhaps up for the original recording).

Aye, it's still there, but instead of timpani he seemed to replace it with tuba or some such.

Starting with ESB (and the concert suite), you mostly just hear the basses there, but the timpani can still (barely) be heard in the prequel recording.

[Bilbo 3,709]

This movie is definitely not a reboot. It'll most likely cover events from the "Expanded Universe" and after Return Of The Jedi. I'd love to see a series about Jedi Knight with Luke, Kyle Katarn and others.

No it won't.

[Quintus 5,399]

For a long time I used to think that Williams removed the timpani from the end of the first repetition of the A theme, until I noticed (only rather recently, in fact) that he merely toned it down (or perhaps up for the original recording).

Aye, it's still there, but instead of timpani he seemed to replace it with tuba or some such.

Starting with ESB (and the concert suite), you mostly just hear the basses there, but the timpani can still (barely) be heard in the prequel recording.

Sorry, I could be confusing the section with another. Are you not referring to the loud descending timpani heard during the last few notes of the reprisal of Luke's theme after the strings bridge? He seemed to completely remove the timpani after Star Wars (ANH).

[Seth 67]

I think Quint is right. In the published score the timpani are only playing downbeats in that passage; the descending triplets were transferred to tuba and low strings/winds. I didn't hear them at all in the prequel recording. In relation to the new films? I think it would probably be a mistake to try to write a new theme, especially for something as iconic as Star Wars. But I do hope he does a new recording; I'm not a fan of the prequel version. The snare drum is too loud and the trumpets sound thin, though that could be a function of the recording/mixing. My own favorite is the version recorded for The Empire Strikes Back. The trumpets there! Good gracious.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

I predict we would see more missing percussion if John changes the orchestration. I still hear percussion driving some of the momentum in parts of the track, and John doesn't seem fond of that.

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

I think Quint is right. In the published score the timpani are only playing downbeats in that passage; the descending triplets were transferred to tuba and low strings/winds. I didn't hear them at all in the prequel recording.

Ah, that makes sense. There's a timpani barely audible in the prequels, but it's probably just playing the same note throughout. In my defence, it's hard to hear at all and I was surprised it's there at all.

I still like the original version best in that regard.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The original sounds the smallest, but also the most punchy.

[karelm 2,913]

I think Quint is right. In the published score the timpani are only playing downbeats in that passage; the descending triplets were transferred to tuba and low strings/winds. I didn't hear them at all in the prequel recording.

Ah, that makes sense. There's a timpani barely audible in the prequels, but it's probably just playing the same note throughout. In my defence, it's hard to hear at all and I was surprised it's there at all.

I still like the original version best in that regard.

Interestingly, Don Williams (timpanist and JW's brother) mentioned the timpani part in Star Wars main theme at the restatement was not going to happen as originally intended and that JW would have revised it after Star Wars. I think it is the same passage we are discussing here and I'll try to dig up the exact quote but the general comment was that it was not realistic to play as written. This was from a score study with Don and the section was bars 11 to 13 or so of the Hal Leonard. I believe it was simplified after that which is how Don suggested it should have been in the first place.

[EDIT: Notes from Don Williams]

Don: A couple of situations have occurred over the years when I had to play this in different circumstances. Put your eyes on bars 12 to 14. When I go in to work and I’ve got eight kettledrums, I can play that easily. You notice in bar 13, the timpani would be better off playing just b flat. I’ve had to do this in circumstances where I only had four drums on stage so I’d make an executive decision to play downbeat of the triplet for continuity (it would be dangerous and too easy to be out of tune) so in bar 13 with four drums, I would just play downbeats. If we’re in the studio and I had 8 drums, I’d play the full monty. He [JW] likes a very dry and bright sound so it doesn’t sound dark but bright and clear. I spoke to the guy who played this [in Star Wars] and after talking with him, he felt bar 13 was too busy. Sometimes, you can overwrite and this one bar would have been suspect [to being overwritten]. When you have an A flat in one drum and A in the adjacent drum, there is a tendency for them to ring each other. It is very difficult to get that bar in tune. The b flat is going to want to ring off the A and result in a pitch fight. After playing it a dozen times, I figured the A, B flat, and G all in one drum…it is a little treacherous. You have to worry about that sonic problem where the two drums want to fight each other in pitch.

Perhaps what people are hearing is that a change was made after Star Wars main theme to the timpani at this spot.

[tedfud 38]

hah that's very interseting. Just did timps in the studio and chromatic runs are a nightmare. They decay far to long and it ends up being a mess. I wonder if this will get re-written. And whether or not this was just an orchestration boob ?

t

[Naïve Old Fart 9,533]

Sorry to sound like a weiner, but I don't give a frack what JW does with the theme. I know he will compose good scores for "VII"-"IX", and I am far more interested in how he will take the "sound" of Star Wars forward, than caring about if he will overhaul existing themes.

He did a very nice variation of Luke's theme at the end of "Father/Son".

[Quintus 5,399]

Some here don't like all of his Star Wars scores like you do, Richy.

[nightscape94 965]

I think it's entirely possible you could get a slightly different version of the main title sequence depending on what Abrams does. If he sticks to the traditional crawl with no variation then Williams will most likely follow suit. If Abrams tries something even a little bit different then he'll probably have a discussion with Williams about trying something new. I doubt that you'll get a completely different overhaul, though, with something unrecognizable.

[Quintus 5,399]

Unrecognisable would be too drastic a change.

[Giftheck 916]

On the whole, no. But there were minor changes in the title between the three OT films and TPM, so I'd like to hear minor variations in the new theme: I certainly don't want him to just decide to use the TPM recording again, because that was, IMO, a bit of a lazy decision.

[Quintus 5,399]

It was. Very disappointed I was, at the time.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,533]

He's already overhauled Luke's theme...it's called "Across The Stars".

"RIchy"?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

He did, actually. A lot of people refuse to see it.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,533]

"No-one is blinder than those who refuse to see"...or something.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Maybe Abrahams will make the title crawl purple.

[Bilbo 3,709]

The way the people connected to this film have been talking they'll be playing Episode VII as safe as humanly possible. They won't go an mess with the music or the opening crawl. We'll get a new variation like ANH,TESB,ROTJ and TPM but that'll be it. They don't want to piss fanboys (I say that being one myself) off and this would be an unnecessary way to do it.

There'll be people who will complain about the lack of the 20th Century Fox music.

Saying all that, the stand alone films (like the rumored Lawrence Kasden Boba Fett film) give the perfect opportunity to change things up. I don't expect JW to score that one but it would be nice to see him involved in someway, like a new version of the main titles and integrating some of his own themes.

There will be no rocking of any boats for Episode VII though.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I agree.

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

Saying all that, the stand alone films (like the rumored Lawrence Kasden Boba Fett film) give the perfect opportunity to change things up. I don't expect JW to score that one but it would be nice to see him involved in someway, like a new version of the main titles and integrating some of his own themes.

A main title based on the Boba Fett motif? That would be interesting.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

What's everyone's obsession with Boba Fett and his motif?

[Quintus 5,399]

How dare you - it's a theme!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

For Doug Adams maybe!

[Bilbo 3,709]

I think Boba should have a more Spaghetti Western* feel in his main theme but there'd be nothing wrong with having the Motiff and a new theme.

*Clone Wars had one that was very close to Man with Harmonica and it was cool. Obviously for a film I'd want something more original but it's a good starting point I guess.

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

What's everyone's obsession with Boba Fett and his motif?

Obsession?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Why is he so popular.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

I think Boba should have a more Spaghetti Western* feel in his main theme but there'd be nothing wrong with having the Motiff and a new theme.

Grand Motiff Tarkin?

Sorry. I thought that was the Word Association Game thread.

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

Why is he so popular.

I have no idea. But he has a funny little theme. One I can't imagine being turned into a standalone piece at all.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I many modern day movies that funny little theme would in fact be a main theme.

[Quintus 5,399]

Nah, it's too developed.

Gia might have managed to strain out the first part of it just before the snares I suppose, but would have needed a year off after.

[karelm 2,913]

I think the Boba Fett character is popular because he was the first to stand up to Vader. This was really shocking at the time when anyone who disappointed Vader was choked to death. Without fear, Boba said "What if he doesn't survive? He's worth a lot to me." and vader responded that he would be compensated if that happened. With these few words you had a deep backstory created.

[King Mark 3,631]

I'd like to hear a re-boot of the theme. I love what Williams did at the last part of the End Credits of KotCS for the Indiana Jones theme (and he should have written an entirely new Raiders March based on that bit)

[Bilbo 3,709]

I think Boba should have a more Spaghetti Western* feel in his main theme but there'd be nothing wrong with having the Motiff and a new theme.

Grand Motiff Tarkin?

Sorry. I thought that was the Word Association Game thread.

[Balahkay 627]

I don't think it's a good idea to change the main title. I imagine it would upset a lot of people no matter how good it is. Although, I would love to hear a reboot from Williams as an alternate. Weren't a lot people upset that The Phantom Menace didn't feature the main theme enough throughout the score? I think that says a lot right there...

[King Mark 3,631]

yeah, the fan uproar wouldn't be worth the risk

[Bespin 8,483]

Don't change the Star Wars theme at all... It will possibly be the only good thing in these new movies!

Seriously, when I will see the first seconds of the movie in theater I want to say to myself : "He he he" and not "I have a bad feeling..."

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Fanboys can't handle change. The filmmakers know that, and they'll be aware that the absence of the traditional 20th Century Fox and Lucasfilm Ltd. logos along with the Disney logo will already be putting them on thin ice. They'll want to keep a few things constant, and that'll be the 'A long time ago' opening text and crawl, and the march everyone knows by heart.

[Bespin 8,483]

Fanboys can't handle change. The filmmakers know that, and they'll be aware that the absence of the traditional 20th Century Fox and Lucasfilm Ltd. logos along with the Disney logo will already be putting them on thin ice. They'll want to keep a few things constant, and that'll be the 'A long time ago' opening text and crawl, and the march everyone knows by heart.

The Star Wars Theme without the 20th Century Fox Fanfare???

[Sharkissimo 1,973]