Who should take over on STAR WARS after Williams is gone?

[leeallen01 2,136]

Gold's work on Doctor Who is incredible. He has shown his skill at strong melody and powerful thematic development. He is made for Sci-Fi. Plus his music is just really fun. Full of colours. He works wonderfully well with soloists and choirs as well.

McCreary is an untapped genius, protege of Elmer Bernstein, and the fact that he scored the entire of Battlestar Galactica before he was 30 is crazy. He has a rich, ethnic sound that is unmistakably his own. For someone so young to be so established in his own unique way is mightily impressive. He is at a level that would be expected from a well known composer twice his age.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

For a bear, he's pretty good.

[Marcus 390]

Whenever I hear something like McCreary's "The Cape", or the Sci-fi scores of Giacchino, Arnold etc, what I hear is a style of writing, not a quality of writing.

To me, the style is entirely uninteresting, in as much as being completely without surprises. It's all stuff that's relatively easy to emulate, and unless I really connect with it emotionally, it just doesn't hold my attention.

What makes Williams such a tough act to follow, is that unless your level of writing (not just the stylistics: brassy fanfares, mediant & tritone shifts, octatonic passage work etc) is truly sophisticated, you will end up sounding like a hack or an amateur by comparison.

There's a level of artistry and elegance to Williams' work that transcends the mere clichés of the genre. These qualities and skills stem from a much deeper appreciation for compositional craft than mere stylistic emulation.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Yeah. Ideally people would move away from the style as a whole. It's time to embrace some newer musical thinking. At this point I doubt anyone can manage more than pastiche, and not for lack of skill, but simply because the language is becoming dated. It doesn't matter how much passion you have for it. Unless you're of Williams' generation, it will always be something of the past for you, something nostalgic, and so, how genuine can it be when you do it? Why not embrace the world that you actually grew up in and live in now? You don't have to love Williams' music less by doing that, but you free yourself from trying to think as a person from what really is another time. Let's stop holding up our musical idols as the pinnacle of what can be done, stop clinging to their methods, and start forging something of our own. This is the responsibility that all composers writing today bear, both in film and in the concert hall, unless they're content with regurgitation.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Go on, make me a martyr!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

I have followers. You can't silence them all!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Gold's work on Doctor Who is incredible. He has shown his skill at strong melody and powerful thematic development. He is made for Sci-Fi. Plus his music is just really fun. Full of colours. He works wonderfully well with soloists and choirs as well.

Post some examples then.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Yeah. Ideally people would move away from the style as a whole. It's time to embrace some newer musical thinking. At this point I doubt anyone can manage more than pastiche, and not for lack of skill, but simply because the language is becoming dated. It doesn't matter how much passion you have for it. Unless you're of Williams' generation, it will always be something of the past for you, something nostalgic, and so, how genuine can it be when you do it? Why not embrace the world that you actually grew up in and live in now? You don't have to love Williams' music less by doing that, but you free yourself from trying to think as a person from what really is another time. Let's stop holding up our musical idols as the pinnacle of what can be done, stop clinging to their methods, and start forging something of our own. This is the responsibility that all composers writing today bear, both in film and in the concert hall, unless they're content with regurgitation.

To the landfill all my antiquated Williams and Goldsmith CDs go!

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Yeah. Ideally people would move away from the style as a whole. It's time to embrace some newer musical thinking. At this point I doubt anyone can manage more than pastiche, and not for lack of skill, but simply because the language is becoming dated. It doesn't matter how much passion you have for it. Unless you're of Williams' generation, it will always be something of the past for you, something nostalgic, and so, how genuine can it be when you do it? Why not embrace the world that you actually grew up in and live in now? You don't have to love Williams' music less by doing that, but you free yourself from trying to think as a person from what really is another time. Let's stop holding up our musical idols as the pinnacle of what can be done, stop clinging to their methods, and start forging something of our own. This is the responsibility that all composers writing today bear, both in film and in the concert hall, unless they're content with regurgitation.

To the landfill all my antiquated Williams and Goldsmith CDs go!

Yeah, because that's exactly what I'm suggesting!

[Lewya 360]

Toshihiko Sahashi or Yuko Kanno should score.

Two samples:

Oh wait, I forgot, they are not Hollywood composers.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Yeah. Ideally people would move away from the style as a whole. It's time to embrace some newer musical thinking. At this point I doubt anyone can manage more than pastiche, and not for lack of skill, but simply because the language is becoming dated. It doesn't matter how much passion you have for it. Unless you're of Williams' generation, it will always be something of the past for you, something nostalgic, and so, how genuine can it be when you do it? Why not embrace the world that you actually grew up in and live in now? You don't have to love Williams' music less by doing that, but you free yourself from trying to think as a person from what really is another time. Let's stop holding up our musical idols as the pinnacle of what can be done, stop clinging to their methods, and start forging something of our own. This is the responsibility that all composers writing today bear, both in film and in the concert hall, unless they're content with regurgitation.

To the landfill all my antiquated Williams and Goldsmith CDs go!

Yeah, because that's exactly what I'm suggesting!

Even AI is dated and sounds like a 50s Hercules movie.

Hans Zimmer is the only composer modern and sophisticated enough to rescore the film.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Yeah. Ideally people would move away from the style as a whole. It's time to embrace some newer musical thinking. At this point I doubt anyone can manage more than pastiche, and not for lack of skill, but simply because the language is becoming dated. It doesn't matter how much passion you have for it. Unless you're of Williams' generation, it will always be something of the past for you, something nostalgic, and so, how genuine can it be when you do it? Why not embrace the world that you actually grew up in and live in now? You don't have to love Williams' music less by doing that, but you free yourself from trying to think as a person from what really is another time. Let's stop holding up our musical idols as the pinnacle of what can be done, stop clinging to their methods, and start forging something of our own. This is the responsibility that all composers writing today bear, both in film and in the concert hall, unless they're content with regurgitation.

To the landfill all my antiquated Williams and Goldsmith CDs go!

Yeah, because that's exactly what I'm suggesting!

Even AI is dated and sounds like a 50s Hercules movie.

Hans Zimmer is the only composer modern and sophisticated enough to rescore the film.

No, Zimmer isn't realistic and relatable enough. It has to be Ramin Djawadi. He knows how to write epic feels.

[KK 3,307]

Gold's work on Doctor Who is incredible. He has shown his skill at strong melody and powerful thematic development. He is made for Sci-Fi. Plus his music is just really fun. Full of colours. He works wonderfully well with soloists and choirs as well.

Post some examples then.

The Doctor Who music is a pretty consistent mix of nice tunes, colourful and occasionally rather moving orchestral writing, some nice solos with a dash of pop where appropriate, which is more than can be said for a lot of television scores. I like them. But do they show he's SW-material? Not sure I'd go that far.

He does fall prey to temp track love now and then though, especially with the latest seasons:

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

This is actually my favourite of the ones you posted. A nice pop-influenced four-the-floor passacaglia, sort of an orchestral Smells like Teen Spirit. Shame about the unimaginative arrangement and bass guitar part...

[KK 3,307]

That's my favourite too. Helps that it accompanies what I'd say is the show's emotional high-point.

[leeallen01 2,136]

Gold's work on Doctor Who is incredible. He has shown his skill at strong melody and powerful thematic development. He is made for Sci-Fi. Plus his music is just really fun. Full of colours. He works wonderfully well with soloists and choirs as well.

Post some examples then.

I think his peak in the series, in terms of emotionally powerful thematic development, was the end of season 4, throughout season 5, 6, and 7.

Here's some of his weighty Prokofiev-esque Villain music

And his emotional stuff

stuff with soloist and choir (With an incredible Counter Tenor)

His use of chanting and male and female choirs together. The way he builds this piece, especially 1:37 to the end is great.

His melodic stuff, with delicate music box for the young Amy character

And finally, this is one of my favourites from anything he's done over the eight years. This theme was used extremely well, and developed beautifully over the many years the character was in the show. Again, another piece that builds brilliantly.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

What will follow next is a post of Sharky ridiculing your examples.

He likes to entrap people like that.

[leeallen01 2,136]

He can even write very good songs

[KK 3,307]

Some good choices actually Lee. I haven't really listened to any of the post-RTD era scores on album, so thanks for bringing up some of those lovely cues.

The Capaldi season music, at least in context, has been largely anonymous as far as I can remember though.

[leeallen01 2,136]

Some good choices actually Lee. I haven't really listened to any of the post-RTD era scores on album, so thanks for bringing up some of those lovely cues.

The Capaldi's season music, at least in context, has been largely anonymous as far as I can remember though.

Yeah I haven't noticed much to make me take notice in series 8. I haven't heard the album separately, so maybe there's some good stuff. Capaldi's Doctor theme isn't as strong as previous ones either, though I think that's more to do with the producers who asked him to keep the Matt Smith theme as everyone loves it, but he didn't want to, so they compromised on him keeping the basis and adding something different to it, which I think kind of suffocated his creative process and stopped the potential to have a decent new theme.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It just sounds like they wanted him to do a Marvel/Brian Tyler type theme.

The Matt Smith era theme was essentially a Zimmer ripoff anyway. From Angels and Demons.

[KK 3,307]

Yup. Matt Smith's theme is a variation of 160 BPM. And the new Doctor theme sounds a bit like "Time" spruced up with Tyler/RC ostinati/power anthem additives.

Tennant had the best Doctor theme(s).

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The Doctor Forever is simply fantastic!

[leeallen01 2,136]

One of my favourite scores from Zimmer is Angels and Demons, so I like the similarities.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Gold certainly made the theme his own. It's very hummable.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

From Angels and Demons.

Elegant score.

[leeallen01 2,136]

This is the best doctor theme in my opinion. It represented Eccleston's Doctor and then carried throughout Tennant's years too, all the way until his final scene. Listen to this.

And then this at 2:20

[KK 3,307]

Yup, that's my favourite Doctor theme as well.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It has a very mysterious and elusive quality.

[leeallen01 2,136]

It perfectly captures the Doctor as a person. It has a historic feeling where you can almost sense the sheer age of him, and the weight of the entire universe on his shoulders. Very effective.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

It's brilliantly effective, and intervocalically it's a derivation of the Ron Grainer theme. I like the sort of plainsong quality it has.

What will follow next is a post of Sharky ridiculing your examples.

He likes to entrap people like that.

Am I that predictable?

I liked the examples you posted, Lee. I don't think he's right for SW, but then that's no slight against the man. He's clearly talented, and I'd rather he'd do music for spin-offs like The Clone Wars than Kevin Kiner.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

He's clearly talented, and I'd rather he'd do music for spin-offs like The Clone Wars than Kevin Kiner.

To be fair, wouldn't anybody be better than Kevin Kiner?

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

The future of Hollywood, hopefully! Along with O'Donnell and Wintory. The new trinity.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Yeah. Ideally people would move away from the style as a whole. It's time to embrace some newer musical thinking. At this point I doubt anyone can manage more than pastiche, and not for lack of skill, but simply because the language is becoming dated. It doesn't matter how much passion you have for it. Unless you're of Williams' generation, it will always be something of the past for you, something nostalgic, and so, how genuine can it be when you do it? Why not embrace the world that you actually grew up in and live in now? You don't have to love Williams' music less by doing that, but you free yourself from trying to think as a person from what really is another time. Let's stop holding up our musical idols as the pinnacle of what can be done, stop clinging to their methods, and start forging something of our own. This is the responsibility that all composers writing today bear, both in film and in the concert hall, unless they're content with regurgitation.

To the landfill all my antiquated Williams and Goldsmith CDs go!

Yeah, because that's exactly what I'm suggesting!

Even AI is dated and sounds like a 50s Hercules movie.

Hans Zimmer is the only composer modern and sophisticated enough to rescore the film.

No, Zimmer isn't realistic and relatable enough. It has to be Ramin Djawadi. He knows how to write epic feels.

I totally relate to Djawadi's sense of coolness.

[KK 3,307]

The future of Hollywood, hopefully! Along with O'Donnell and Wintory. The new trinity.

Only familiar with Wintory of the three. Would love to see him try Star Wars, but I think he's really comfortable with the video game niche and has no intentions of entering the film industry for now.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Well not even necessarily for SW. I just wanted to take another opportunity to push them as the wave of the future again.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Who?

[KK 3,307]

Well not even necessarily for SW. I just wanted to take another opportunity to push them as the wave of the future again.

Amen!

[leeallen01 2,136]

In all honesty, I think Disney's next move is very obvious. It would be great if Williams continued with 8 and 9, and leave other composers like Desplat to do spin-offs, because it basically keeps everyone happy, and makes sense, considering they have nothing to do with Williams specifically, like Rogue One has no reason to share themes from the Saga, neither does a Han Solo or Fett spin-off because they didn't have any thematic stuff importantly connected to them musically. So there's no harm other people having a big musical shot at them.

In regards to Williams 'replacement' if he should leave the saga (by choice or forced to), I think Desplat is obviously being groomed as so. It's a perfect, almost no risk experiment him doing Rogue One, and if it goes well, they'll no doubt hire him when Williams can't continue.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

I only know Wintory from that game with the adorable flying doormats. Who's O'Donnell?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

https://twitter.com/ScoreAndOST/status/619469557711962112

The twitter account "FilmScoreLove" posted this and I nearly had a heart attack before I saw the link!

Not sure why anybody would actively want a Giacchino Star Wars sequel score when Williams is still alive. It's like wanting to come in second place in a race.

[leeallen01 2,136]

In all honesty, I think Disney's next move is very obvious. It would be great if Williams continued with 8 and 9, and leave other composers like Desplat to do spin-offs, because it basically keeps everyone happy, and makes sense, considering they have nothing to do with Williams specifically, like Rogue One has no reason to share themes from the Saga

Yes, of course, if you ignore the fact that there'll be the Rebels, and the Empire, and Vader...

My bad. I have no idea what it's about. I thought it was just about the rebel alliance. Didn't know Vader was in it.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,364]

In all honesty, I think Disney's next move is very obvious. It would be great if Williams continued with 8 and 9, and leave other composers like Desplat to do spin-offs, because it basically keeps everyone happy, and makes sense, considering they have nothing to do with Williams specifically, like Rogue One has no reason to share themes from the Saga

Yes, of course, if you ignore the fact that there'll be the Rebels, and the Empire, and Vader...

My bad. I have no idea what it's about. I thought it was just about the rebel alliance. Didn't know Vader was in it.

http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=24454&p=1145880

[leeallen01 2,136]

Okay cool. I guess what I'm saying is that the main focus of the planned spinoffs don't really have a major thematic presence. Like Han has no singular theme for example. And Rogue One will have new characters in the forefront of the story.