The Force Awakens The Force Awakens SPOILERS ALLOWED Discussion Thread

[A24 4,338]

Well, you belong in the 'I believe everything' camp.

 

 

If it was handled better there wouldn't be any arguing.

[Romão 2,274]

Rey is not supposed to be like previous Force users. She's one step ahead. The sequels will further explore that, I'm sure.

 

Plus the fact that Kylo Ren was seriously injured, emotionally shaken and has incomplete training.

 

It's good enough for me, and I'm sorry if I'm not in the same intelectual ballpark as you

[A24 4,338]

The movie should bring it in such way that I believe that a newbie defeats the new Darth Vader. It's a big discussion on the internet so I don't think it has fully accomplished that.

[Romão 2,274]

I can only speak for myself

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Unlike Alex, who speaks for all intelligent and discriminate movie goers.

[leeallen01 2,136]

I have a random idea for Episode 8. I know people don't think Snoke is Darth Plagueis, but I think there's a possibility or at least he is someone ancient from the Dark Side, anywho, what do people think of a possible storyline that considering Plagueis can manipulate the Force to create life, what if he can manipulate the Force to create death too? And the main threat in the continuing films is revealed that he has or is trying to have the ability to manipulate the force into killing every bloody person in the galaxy in one mass force genocide. Kind of stupid and weird I know, but I can't image how they can create a threat for the following films as they're already done 3 deathstar plots.

[Jay 37,369]

I think the threat in the next film will have to be on a more personal level rather than another "the whole galaxy's in danger" plot.

[leeallen01 2,136]

Just now, Jay said:

I think the threat in the next film will have to be on a more personal level rather than another "the whole galaxy's in danger" plot.

I agree, but I have a bad feeling that they will keep trying to one up themselves threat wise.

[A24 4,338]

The fact that even fans have reservations about Kylo's poor performance at the end is very telling to me. The difference between how he is introduced and how he conducts in the end is just too big. That the new Darth Vader should get his ass kicked by a young girl who just discovered that she has the force is quite something. The film didn't do a well enough job to sell it to me. Ren gets too powerful too quickly and Kylo gets defeated too easily. Everything goes too easy and too fast. 

[leeallen01 2,136]

Why do people still have a problem with Rey's quick ability with the force? I had a problem with it initially but then I thought about it properly and saw that it really is in-line with what has come before. 

 

Luke destroyed the deathstar 'using the force' to hit a target that trained professional pilots all failed to hit, and he had zero training. Just Obi Wan told him some stuff about the force. Also he could deflect those shots from the remote with his lightsaber on the Falcon after about 2 minutes of knowing Obi Wan. And he didn't know of his parentage and his potential ability to use the force. He just did it. "I could almost see the remote" by using the force. He was immediately powerful himself. As Rey was. I don't question Rey's ability to lightsaber duel, because most kids with a stick can playing around in the garden with friends, and plus she kicked ass with her staff earlier in the film, so she can already handle herself in combat with a stick, thus a lightsaber. Plus Ren was injured and had just commit the final act to push him into darkness and away from the light, as he was still tempted by the light as is evident when he talks to the Vader helmet. So I fail to see the problem with Rey's abilities anymore.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

A friend of mine had an interesting point.

 

Disney doesnt own Star Wars (1977) so they remade it!

[A24 4,338]

There's a difference between finding out that you have the force and kicking the main villain's ass in the next scene. Again, too easily and too fast for a lot of people to be entirely believable.

[leeallen01 2,136]

1 minute ago, Alexcremers said:

There's a difference between finding out that you have the force and kicking the main villain's ass in the next scene. Again, too easily and too fast for a lot of people to be entirely believable.

 

I do see your point. I shared it too on my first viewing, but I have grown to accept it as less of a big deal than it is, because it just makes sense enough to me to be believable, but I can see why others think it's rushed.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I think the idea was that Kylo Ren was losing his grip on the Force. He only knew how to use it through the Dark Side. But the Light was tugging on him. It's why he was so conflicted, as he told Han and as Snoke indicated.

 

Make of that what you will.

 

I can see how you might think it odd Rey is able to defeat the guy who stopped a blaster bolt in mid-air though. Still, it didn't bother me when watching the film.

[Jay 37,369]

One of the things I actually really liked about the film was that we had villains who talked about the light side of the force and being drawn to it.

 

I mean generally in these kinds of movies we have heroes, who sometimes struggle with doing the right thing, and other characters comment on how they're being drawn to the dark side, etc.

 

But it's fairly unique to have a "bad guy" talk about being drawn to the light.  We got a taste of that in ROTJ with Luke talking to Vader about him turning back and stuff.

 

But the dialogue Snoke and Ren have about the issue was interesting.

 

I actually am looking forward to seeing what they do with Ren in the next Episode.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Yes. I thought that was interesting as well. And it made perfect sense. 

 

And it's all about who a person wants to be vs. who they are. Sometimes the person you want to be isn't who you really are or who you should be. I feel that's what's going on with Ren and he's going to realize this at some point in the upcoming story. It'll be nice to see this play out. And if it doesn't happen, then the Dark Side will likely be his downfall. That'd suit the story as well. 

[Jay 37,369]

Yes, I think the only two paths they will take with Ren are

 

1. He's initially does more evil things thanks to Snoke prodding him along, but ultimately desides to reject the dark side and embrace the light - at just the right time that he gets to live and be on the good side, rather then immediately dying like Vader's redemption.

 

2. He struggles with Light vs Dark but ultimately chooses Dark, and Rey has to kill him

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I wanna see it in IMAX soon.

[Jay 37,369]

If I see the film theatrically a second time, it will be in IMAX.

 

I just wish I had an IMAX 2D option instead of being forced to IMAX 3D.

 

 

Oh, I just thought of something.  Weren't certain scenes filmed with IMAX cameras?


Did anyone here see the film in IMAX, and notice the aspect ratio changing for certain scenes?

 

I remember that being a bit distracting in The Dark Knight and Interstellar

[stewdog1 50]

It's like Kylo Ren is a mashup of Kyp Durron from the EU books (or a direct rip).  Kyp is found by Han and trained by Luke, goes to the darkside because he is consumed by the dark side spirit of Exar Kun.  Steals the Sun Crusher, blows planets/stars up.  Eventually he comes back to the light.

 

Look, I get why they needed to separate themselves from the EU, but I was extremely conflicted by the movie because of things like this.  I know it is a no-win situation for them.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Has Luke Skywalker (Manuel) seen it yet?

[A24 4,338]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

 

 

But it's fairly unique to have a "bad guy" talk about being drawn to the light.  We got a taste of that in ROTJ with Luke talking to Vader about him turning back and stuff.

 

 

 

Not unique since Darth Vader was actually convinced by his son who managed to pull him to the light side. Yes, Kylo struggled, but perhaps that was only to give the audience the impression father Solo would be able to change his mind. Perhaps it was merely a red herring because his conflict says one thing but his actions say another.

 

[Uni 306]

29 pages already. Gawd. Having seen the movie (unexpectedly) on opening weekend, I thought I'd be able to do a quick read-up on people's impressions before offering my own. Not to be. I may just have to do my own write-up and respond to everyone else's later. . . .

[Bespin 8,483]

F...F...F...F...

 

I'm back.

 

 

F....F....F....F....

 

Too much images in my mind. WOUAAAA!!!

 

I loved it... but now I have so many questions!

 

Who the hell is this Sknoke???

 

Is Han Solo really dead? (I don't think)

 

Rey is the daughter of Luke, that's clear.

 

I loved the scenes with Ben Solo without his mask.

 

Wow, Star Wars is back baby!!!

[Jay 37,369]

Yes, Han is really dead.

[Bespin 8,483]

Just now, Jay said:

Yes, Han is really dead.

 

They confirmed Ford for Episode VIII!

[Jay 37,369]

No, they didn't.

[Bespin 8,483]

 Oh I hate that day.

[Bespin 8,483]

I just saw it.

 

I looooooved it.

 

The tone was correct... after just 5 or 10 seconds I knew it was OKAY for me.

 

A more modern movie but with a bunch of references to the original old movie... and I loved all of them.

 

The music of John Williams is always perfect in every scene.

 

And I'm totally in love with Rey and Finn... and of course BB-8!

 

Unexpectedly Adam Driver delivers a very good performance. In the second part of the movie, I was totally hypnotised by him.

 

Now, I have so many questions, but... hey...

 

Star Wars is back!!!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Meh...

[Bilbo 3,709]

4 hours ago, Jay said:

If I see the film theatrically a second time, it will be in IMAX.

 

I just wish I had an IMAX 2D option instead of being forced to IMAX 3D.

 

 

Oh, I just thought of something.  Weren't certain scenes filmed with IMAX cameras?


Did anyone here see the film in IMAX, and notice the aspect ratio changing for certain scenes?

 

I remember that being a bit distracting in The Dark Knight and Interstellar

I saw it in IMAX and didn't notice the ratio change.

out of all the times I've seen it IMAX was probably me least favourite experience but I put that down to being too close to the screen. I'll see it in IMAX again when the demand dies down. 

[Uni 306]

1 hour ago, Bespin said:

Is Han Solo really dead? (I don't think)

 

If they were to attempt to bring him back in one of the later films, it would ruin everything they accomplished with this one. No one--least of all J.J., who's still at the helm on these movies (even if he's not directing)--is that knuckleheaded. Well, except maybe Lucas himself, but we can all be grateful there will be no SE's of this trilogy which will attempt to bring Solo back through some sort of CGI "magic" (and against Ford's wishes).

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

In the original Journal Of The Whills text compiled by Lucas in the 70's, Han survived!

[leeallen01 2,136]

4 hours ago, Alexcremers said:

 

Not unique since Darth Vader was actually convinced by his son who managed to pull him to the light side. Yes, Kylo struggled, but perhaps that was only to give the audience the impression father Solo would be able to change his mind. Perhaps it was merely a red herring because his conflict says one thing but his actions say another.

 

Considering Ren spoke to the Vader Helmet and said I am feeling the pull to the light, Snoke can sense it. Show me the power of the darkness grandfather. It means Ren was seriously torn apart inside, knowing he had to kill his father to finally fall into darkness, but he didn't know if he had the strength to do it. I genuinely believe those tears were real when he looked at Han, because he had already decided he has to kill him to shut out the temptation of the light. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Quite evocative.

 

But it's useless to debate Alex on this film, he's already decided.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

3 hours ago, Jay said:

Yes, Han is really dead.

 

Not as long as we remember him.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The Falcon? Out of danger?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Don't grieve, Chewie.

[nightscape94 965]

10 hours ago, Alexcremers said:

If it was handled better there wouldn't be any arguing.

 

Honestly, the only way you, as a viewer, don't understand that he's fighting injured is that you're simply not paying attention.  It's clear as day and there's a specific shot built into the scene to say "hey, look, injury!"

 

9 hours ago, Jay said:

One of the things I actually really liked about the film was that we had villains who talked about the light side of the force and being drawn to it.

 

That immediately became one of my favorite things about the character the moment he verbalized the idea of the light being almost like a poison to him.  It's a reversal of the dark side always being seen as the temptation.

 

[indy4 155]

8 hours ago, mrbellamy said:

(this is presumably the only reason they show Chewie shooting Ren after Han's death)

 

I don't think it's even the main reason. Why wouldn't Chewie shoot him after that?

Oh yeah I think it makes perfect sense for chewie to try to shoot him...just seems awfully convenient that this is the one time a laser actually hits a main character 

[finalscore 10]

In an earlier post I had state that both Rey and Kylo Ren might be siblings. Upon repeated review of the score, and I may be reading more into this than it is, Rey might be the offspring of the Emperor. Listen to the first few notes of Rey's Theme and they resemble the first few notes of the Emperor's Theme.

 

Like I said I may be reading more into it than there is. What do you think?

[indy4 155]

5 minutes ago, finalscore said:

In an earlier post I had state that both Rey and Kylo Ren might be siblings. Upon repeated review of the score, and I may be reading more into this than it is, Rey might be the offspring of the Emperor. Listen to the first few notes of Rey's Theme and they resemble the first few notes of the Emperor's Theme.

 

Like I said I may be reading more into it than there is. What do you think?

Hmmm...that would mean palatine had sex around the time ROTJ was set...

[Romão 2,274]

I love the idea of Kylo Ren as the anti Luke. At the end of TFA, he is essentially in the same place as Luke was at the end of ESB. Defeated, humiliated, scarred and emotionally distraught. And I also love how Kylo killed his father in order to go further to the Dark Side, whereas Luke spared his in order to go to the Light Side

[Jay 37,369]

28 minutes ago, nightscape94 said:

That was immediately became one of my favorite things about the character the moment he verbalized the idea of the light being almost like a poison to him.  It's a reversal of the dark side always being seen as the temptation.

 

Exactly!

4 minutes ago, Romão said:

I love the idea of Kylo Ren as the anti Luke. At the end of TFA, he is essentially in the same place as Luke was at the end of ESB. Defeated, humiliated, scarred and emotionally distraught. And I also love how Kylo killed his father in order to go further to the Dark Side, whereas Luke spared his in order to go to the Light Side

 

 

Oooohhh!

[Bespin 8,483]

That can't be clearer, this blue lightsaber is transmited from father to son... And now to daughter. That's the only purpose of this lighsaber trek in the movie....and Rey's understands it when she tend the lightsaber to Luke at the end of the movie. Luke will not take it, it's now hers. 1 + 1 = 2.

[Wojo 2,453]

Or the only unaccounted for lightsaber that would be available for Maz to possess is Anakin's saber lost by Luke at Bespin. She admits that it's a story for another time, and indeed both it and Luke's severed hand played key roles in the old EU. Luke would still have his green saber in exile.  All those of the Clone War era Jedi would have been destroyed long ago, as with all the Jedi that Kylo Ren killed. Realize the Jedi have passed into myth with the people seen in the movie. 

 

I'm curious as to why Kylo Ren asks "what girl" when the First Order officer tells him who helped FN# escape. What difference does it make? What girl would he expect? A sister or cousin? A connection in the Force through his dreams? 

[nightscape94 965]

It seems a lot of people are cranky about Rey's ability to use the force, or become unified with the Force, rather easily.  I love this idea, actually, and it's really no different than Luke in many ways, mostly from his time on Dagobah through the end of ROTJ.  He gets, what, a month of training with Yoda?  During this time it is never implied or shown that he had light saber training.  It was exercise and meditative training.  After ESB he obviously spent time learning the ways of the Force on his own, since he didn't go back to Yoda until the end, yet he was able to very easily and convincingly use mind tricks at the beginning of ROTJ and beat Vader at the end.

 

And Luke was starting from a point where he was deemed to be impatient, which is blatantly obvious even in Star Wars as a character trait, as was tested by Yoda during their introduction by being intentionally annoying to see how he would react.  Rey is not shown to be like that.  I can accept that she could overcome basic hurdles to use some Force abilities.  The idea of Rey simply having natural talent isn't far fetched.  This idea is much more attractive than Lucas' prequel idea of extensive non-stop training since birth only to become vapid husks.

[Hurmm 91]

It sounds like you're going to great lengths to justify how easy Rey mastered the force. A month of training vs. no training at all is a big difference. 

 

In the end I think people just have preferences. Some feel it's natural for Rey to become one with the force so rapidly, while others like me feel it hasn't been 'earned'. I don't think there's much to say beyond that without going into a tedious and boring technical writeup of how the force works. 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

My big letdown was not Han recreating the death of Ron Perlman in Star Trek: Nemesis, Luke in a nonspeaking role for 20 seconds at the end, or Rey suddenly knowing how to use the Force out of nowhere. Rather, it was the lack of Ewoks.