Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 Ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 7 hours ago, Fennel Ka said: Dull, uninspired, mediocre and repetitious. Sad really, considering your early posting brilliance. Nothing lasts forever, my friend! 5 hours ago, Jay said: Stefan please stop with the abusive language, it us completely unnecessary and inappropriate. Thank you. For what? 15 minutes ago, Fennel Ka said: Often? Gkyver recent outbursts do not constitute often. Often enough... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kühni 485 Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 I vividly recall beseeching Doug during our meeting over Guinness in IL seven years ago to please, PLEASE, PLEASE include the alternate 'Breaking' on the RA (which, back then, was still an unknown quantity). Clearly, my arguments weren't persuasive enough...that, or there wasn't enough Guinness involved. Seriously, I recognize that the selection of music for the RA was for Shore to decide, likely with input from Doug. They chose what they thought was the most interesting music to illustrate both how Shore arrived at the final pieces, and what some of his earlier intentions were. The latter pieces often made it to the recording floor, i. e., are fully realised compositions. These are, to me, the most interesting. The alternate (earlier) 'Breaking' is one of those, as is, in part, 'Sammath Naur' and the 'Prologue' (both of them, actually). And since Georg mentioned '30 seconds of alternate stuff in Flight to the Ford'...WHY, OH WHY, WASN'T I GIVEN ANOTHER 30 SECONDS OF CHORAL RINGWRAITH MUSIC FOR FRODO'S VISION ON AMON HEN???!!! Because that one, too, was mentioned over said Guinness... Long story short, Georg and I remain vexed, and the world continues to spin. C'est la vie, celery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 6 hours ago, Stefancos said: Nothing lasts forever, my friend! For what? Often enough... For not sounding like a bitter arsehole maybe. I dare you to count my rants here the Last 7 months, that also qualify as such, meaning no arguments. I don't insult anybody (rarely), while every posts you made here in forever seems to either call people blind fanboys, idiots, or are just spam. 37 minutes ago, SafeUnderHill said: Thinking about it now, I actually think CD is a better format for the alternates. It's the standard music format that we all use for our libraries. Using DVDs would require ripping to get the tracks out, and is getting towards the dedication required to get some of the pieces anyway from other methods (cues from games, appendices). A separate CD release with two discs of pure alternate recordings, plus maybe a DVD of the interview with mockups, in the CR style, was always the better option. And yes, Doug's book is directly linked to the rarities, but since when does a book need to include the CD it's discussing? The book also discusses the CRs track by track, and nobody would think those should be included. And the book is still available, while the CRs are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 3 hours ago, SafeUnderHill said: That sounds good. I'm not sure whether I'd prefer mockups on the DVD or CD, I think they're fascinating but whether I'd want to listen to them regularly is something I don't know. I think it's simple really. Mockups don't really need audio quality, so leave the stuff you want to listen to in high quality and in your car etc on CD, and leave the mockups on DVD, in a sort of library system, to browse through. I don't think Smart TVs were a Big thing back then yet, but these days, with a Smart TV, DVD is a good option to present these things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 I would happily buy a new FotR CR. If there's enough unreleased music for a bonus disc for each film I'd happily buy them too. SafeUnderHill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,695 Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 19 hours ago, gkgyver said: I think it's simple really. Mockups don't really need audio quality, so leave the stuff you want to listen to in high quality and in your car etc on CD, and leave the mockups on DVD, in a sort of library system, to browse through. I don't think Smart TVs were a Big thing back then yet, but these days, with a Smart TV, DVD is a good option to present these things. I kind of agree on this. Back when TRA came out, someone connected with the production (not Doug) said, rather patronisingly IMO, that this was a set that could be listened to like an album. I think the inclusion of the mockups somewhat takes away from that. I found them curious (at most) to listen to them once or twice, but not as regular listening. The ideal situation I think would have been 2 CDs - one for presenting all of the major alternates (which could be listened to as a proper album), and another for interviews, mockups, and any other sundries. I hesitate think about what was removed in order to fit everything on one CD. I know Doug tweeted to suggest that he was working on reissues, but is this likely to be anything other than a straight repressing? Bilbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kühni 485 Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 4 hours ago, Richard Penna said: I know Doug tweeted to suggest that he was working on reissues, but is this likely to be anything other than a straight repressing? I doubt that any changes are going to be made to these reported re-issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 I'd love to be proven wrong of course, but I doubt we'll get a different version of the LOTR scores commercially released while Shore is alive. (By different version I mean a different musical program, not packaging differences) But one can dream of a definitive set! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 A new musical program would require a new edition of The Music of The Lord of the Rings Films!!! Much of the book is organized around the CR releases' tracklists/editing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,373 Posted July 18, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted July 18, 2016 1 hour ago, Disco Stu said: A new musical program would require a new edition of The Music of The Lord of the Rings Films!!! Much of the book is organized around the CR releases' tracklists/editing. Well, if you think about it the LOTR book could already be revised now, to reflect the fact that some one-time passages became "themes" in The Hobbit scores.... Maybe we could get something like this: 2016 Q4: AUJ CR 2017 Q2: DOS CR 2017 Q4: TBOTFA CR + The Music of TH book w/ Rarities Archive 2018 Q1: FOTR CR version 2 2018 Q2: TTT CR version 2 2018 Q3: ROTK CR version 2 2018 Q4: The Music Of The LOTR book version 2 (no more Rarities Archive because each CR 2.0 has their own disc of extra material) Bofur01, Barnald, Bilbo and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,359 Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 I doubt the Rarities would be dropped in favor of bonus discs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 51 minutes ago, Jay said: Well, if you think about it the LOTR book could already be revised now, to reflect the fact that some one-time passages became "themes" in The Hobbit scores.... Maybe we could get something like this: 2016 Q4: AUJ CR 2017 Q2: DOS CR 2017 Q4: TBOTFA CR + The Music of TH book w/ Rarities Archive 2018 Q1: FOTR CR version 2 2018 Q2: TTT CR version 2 2018 Q3: ROTK CR version 2 2018 Q4: The Music Of The LOTR book version 2 (no more Rarities Archive because each CR 2.0 has their own disc of extra material) The timing's just about right too. FOTR CR came out 4 years after the movie, which is the anniversary we're approaching for AUJ (if you can believe it). Although I'm not sure they'd release all three CRs for The Hobbit so close together, but who knows! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,651 Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 My thought on The Hobbit is that if they're going to do it, they need to strike while the iron is still lukewarm. To the general public, The Hobbit is done. I don't hear anybody talking about the movies any more - I hear more people still talking about LOTR, the last of which came out over 12 years ago. The fact that Hobbit CRs or a book about the music are considered viable is a surprise to me. (a happy surprise if and when they do happen, but a surprise) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,651 Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Guess I'm not following the right Twitter circles - mostly Star Wars people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 2 hours ago, Disco Stu said: The timing's just about right too. FOTR CR came out 4 years after the movie, which is the anniversary we're approaching for AUJ (if you can believe it). Although I'm not sure they'd release all three CRs for The Hobbit so close together, but who knows! The only one of the three that probably has plenty alternates and unreleased stuff is AUJ, I don't think the other two have that much to go through, it's probably just a case of mastering unedited and additional pieces. I think DoS and BotFA remained more or less as Shore wrote it, anything done by Pope on the podium was probably not that significant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kühni 485 Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 I wonder if Doug will be able to assess/comment on whether Shore's compositional approach to Middle-earth after AUJ changed/was modified by the change in orchestrational, conductory and recording duties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,359 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 4 hours ago, gkgyver said: The only one of the three that probably has plenty alternates and unreleased stuff is AUJ, I don't think the other two have that much to go through, it's probably just a case of mastering unedited and additional pieces. I think DoS and BotFA remained more or less as Shore wrote it, anything done by Pope on the podium was probably not that significant. Well we know pf at least a few alts for DOS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Plus DOS has actual EE cues that haven't been released at all. SafeUnderHill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnald 365 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Off the top of my head, notable unreleased BOTFA music would include a sizeable chunk of Fire and Water, the fabled funeral composition, and apparently a fair bit of interesting music from the war chariot scene we have yet to hear (I'm guessing there might be a fair bit of unheard battle music). I guess there would be around 15-20 minutes worth there alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Let's hope that we are not seriously let down by any future releases as we have in our salivating desire for unreleased music in this thread painted pretty high expectations for possible LotR and the Hobbit releases. Nothing bad about dreaming but we tend to take such things as the measuring stick against which we will compare any release we might eventually get. As I have said before the Music of LotR Films book was built around the CRs (curiously there is no mention of this relation in the book), the upcoming Music of the Hobbit Films has to be a bit differently structured as we do not have any CRs to connect it with, not unless they suddenly plan to release such things to go with it. Thus I was left wondering how will the track-by-track analysis of the music in the films be dealt with. Will the 2 disc OST sets be some kind of guideline for such text or is the score discussed as it is appears in the film. And I am sure there will be plenty of rarities for the Hobbit scores beyond the still unreleased tracks from the scores and the EE stuff on top of that. 10 hours ago, gkgyver said: The only one of the three that probably has plenty alternates and unreleased stuff is AUJ, I don't think the other two have that much to go through, it's probably just a case of mastering unedited and additional pieces. I think DoS and BotFA remained more or less as Shore wrote it, anything done by Pope on the podium was probably not that significant. I might be misremembering but wasn't e.g. the Mirkwood material with all the strange percussion and sound design-y elements at least partially concocted on the recording stage when they started to play with the weird sounds things like bowed cymbals could make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jim Ware 526 Posted July 19, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted July 19, 2016 23 hours ago, Richard Penna said: Back when TRA came out, someone connected with the production (not Doug) said, rather patronisingly IMO, that this was a set that could be listened to like an album. http://www.musicoflotr.com/2010/08/lord-of-rings-rarities-archive.html 2 hours ago, Incanus said: I might be misremembering but wasn't e.g. the Mirkwood material with all the strange percussion and sound design-y elements at least partially concocted on the recording stage when they started to play with the weird sounds things like bowed cymbals could make. Waterphone, bowed tam tam and bowed Tibetan bowls are all notated in the score, but there's a lot of aleatoric material in all the other sections giving a fair amount of room for manoeuvre. Some sections are just given a block of notes and the instruction effects. Bofur01, Incanus and Dixon Hill 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Thanks for the clarification Jim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Ware 526 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 The choir section consists of pianissimo whispers with the instruction to repeat quickly and quietly (women initially, later joined by men). There is a specific choral text in there if you listen for it. Dixon Hill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Ah yes, "The Elven Road" Jim Ware 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 1 hour ago, Jay said: Ah yes, "The Elven Road" Well it is not that obvious to me. Where did you figure that one out? Is the text available somewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 No that I know of. Hopefully Doug's book will have all the choral texts and their translations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 2 minutes ago, Jay said: No that I know of. Hopefully Doug's book will have all the choral texts and their translations Well if it follows along the lines of the previous book then that is more than probable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kühni 485 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 7 hours ago, Incanus said: Let's hope that we are not seriously let down by any future releases Not gonna happen to me, as I'm not expecting any future releases (other than Doug's book), nor the allegedly upcoming re-issues of the CRs to be any different from the original pressings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 3 minutes ago, Kühni said: Not gonna happen to me, as I'm not expecting any future releases (other than Doug's book), nor the allegedly upcoming re-issues of the CRs to be any different from the original pressings. Good, good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kühni 485 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 I'm German. I'm genetically engineered not to expect good things down the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Yes a pessimist is never disappointed. Not that you are one Kühni. And I think Finns share that "don't expect much" attitude with Germans. My hopes are that we might get 2 discs of rarities with the new book. Fingers crossed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kühni 485 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Finland has one advantage. It isn't Germany. Which in this day and age is of considerable importance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Pouring your heart into something doesn't mean it will come out right, especially with more people involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Good grief. Bofur01 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,651 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 I think the rarities disc was just fine, and I listen to it as much as I listen to the rarities at the end of an expanded release - which is to say, infrequently. The music on the albums is more than enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 A rarities archive isn't about how much music you need. And it's not about listenability either. It's in the name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Ware 526 Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 On 18/07/2016 at 10:37 PM, Kühni said: I wonder if Doug will be able to assess/comment on whether Shore's compositional approach to Middle-earth after AUJ changed/was modified by the change in orchestrational, conductory and recording duties. I would say no. Shore's compartmentalisation of composition, orchestration and recording allowed the composition approach and general process to remain consistent throughout the trilogy. There were differences in the timescales involved and the linearity of scoring, but that's to be expected when dealing with three fluid films and a director with no concept of picture lock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 That's why the presentation of the score especially in BOTFA is so abysmal in the film. Of course if a composer writes his score months before picture is locked, and records it weeks before, the end result will be awful with PJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedigoScan 324 Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 doesnt excuse his annoying desire to mute music whenever possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kühni 485 Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 So how then was FotR such a resounding success (the relatively small amount of tracking and micro-editing notwithstanding)? Beginner's luck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 In general the LOTR series was so much more thought out from the beginning, right? With PJ taking over at the last minute from del Toro and the pretty last minute decision to make it a trilogy instead of just two movies, they were makin' that shit up as they went along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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