Chen G. 3,990 Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 2 hours ago, TolkienSS said: Oh you mean the part that actually comes BEFORE the Dwarrowdelf theme! Yeah, its not that theme, I suppose. And boy oh boy, do I hate these theme names! From reading the names "Dwarrowdelf theme" and "Moria theme" you'd be at a loss as to what sets the two apart, when in fact the theme we call "Moria" is really a danger motif, associated with the Orcs, the Balrog, the chasms, etc... I get why we use those names, but damn! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,400 Posted July 20, 2023 Author Share Posted July 20, 2023 Well, I mean, Quote "Moria" means "the Black Chasm" or "the Black Pit", from Sindarin mor, "dark, black" and iâ, "void, abyss".[T 2] The element mor had the sense "sinister, evil", especially by association with infamous names such as Morgoth and Mordor; Quote Khazad-dûm is the name of the fabulous city-kingdom of the Dwarves...It is rendered (in "translated Westron") as the Dwarrowdelf, an archaic form of what would be the Dwarves' delving in more modern English. Sorta fits IMO. Monoverantus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Alex Shore 83 Posted August 15, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted August 15, 2023 I recently discovered the 2001 Cannes Reel, I knew it but hadn't seen it. After watching it, I am amazed at the number of shots, scenes, dialogues that we have not seen in a definitive edition. I love the use of the musical temp tracks that they have used throughout the entire reel. Gandalf's Arrival in Hobbiton has music by Rachel Portman's Emma. Or even the formation of the Fellowship of the Ring in Rivendell with Howard Shore's The Silence of the Lambs. https://rumble.com/v2wjy76-the-lord-of-the-rings-presentation-reel-cannes-film-festival-2001.html Holko, JibberJabberwocky, Monoverantus and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,574 Posted August 15, 2023 Share Posted August 15, 2023 WHAT! IT'S UP??!?!?! Alex Shore 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Shore 83 Posted August 15, 2023 Share Posted August 15, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,456 Posted August 15, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted August 15, 2023 22 minutes ago, Holko said: WHAT! IT'S UP??!?!?! Chen G., Holko, JibberJabberwocky and 2 others 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Shore 83 Posted August 15, 2023 Share Posted August 15, 2023 A special cut or a trailer is never late... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,990 Posted August 15, 2023 Share Posted August 15, 2023 Well, the temp track situation is pretty much as Ian Nathan describes in his book. We have Rachel Portman's Emma, The Silence of the Lambs, Last of the Mohicans, Gothic Power and Gladiator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Ware 526 Posted August 15, 2023 Share Posted August 15, 2023 I tweeted about this in January 2022! Alex Shore 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,574 Posted August 15, 2023 Share Posted August 15, 2023 59 minutes ago, Chen G. said: Well, the temp track situation is pretty much as Ian Nathan describes in his book. We have Rachel Portman's Emma, The Silence of the Lambs, Last of the Mohicans, Gothic Power and Gladiator. And Kilar's Dracula Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Shore 83 Posted August 15, 2023 Share Posted August 15, 2023 26 minutes ago, Holko said: And Kilar's Dracula Where? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,574 Posted August 15, 2023 Share Posted August 15, 2023 27 minutes ago, Alex Shore said: Where? 4:40-5:12 Chen G. and Alex Shore 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,400 Posted August 22, 2023 Author Share Posted August 22, 2023 This part always feels like it is a representation of this passage IMO Monoverantus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,990 Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 There are lots of passages where I hear the score evoking Tolkien's prose. The whispered Ringwraith chants rising as they corner the Hobbits on weathertop seem to me to be a musical adaptation of the description of the Barrow wight passage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TolkienSS 409 Posted August 24, 2023 Share Posted August 24, 2023 I find Shore's Paths Of The Dead theme in RotK a letdown compared to the book descriptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,400 Posted August 24, 2023 Author Share Posted August 24, 2023 20 minutes ago, TolkienSS said: I find Paths Of The Dead in RotK a letdown compared to the book descriptions. Fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,990 Posted August 24, 2023 Share Posted August 24, 2023 I dunno, I find the Paths of the Dead suitable creepy, music and visuals alike. The bright colour of the Gongs in the middle of all this dark texture is really creepy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,302 Posted August 24, 2023 Share Posted August 24, 2023 10 hours ago, Signals said: Fixed that's what most of the movie feels like to me. all the editing feels off, eevrything is rushed... so much of it looks like a stage somewhere, even when it's outside... MaxMovieMan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,400 Posted August 24, 2023 Author Share Posted August 24, 2023 4 hours ago, Chen G. said: I dunno, I find the Paths of the Dead suitable creepy, music and visuals alike. The bright colour of the Gongs in the middle of all this dark texture is really creepy! Which is why it's dissapointing. It's just suitably creepy, when it should have been more.... well... more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete 909 Posted August 26, 2023 Share Posted August 26, 2023 I'm seeing Fellowship of the Ring tonight in concert in Seoul tonight, my second of these kinds of concerts - the first was The Prisoner of Azkaban. I just realized it's been a long time since I listened to Shore's LOTR rings music. I'm as familar with the scores as any others, but it was a nice change to listen to a few pieces last night while walking home. And actually, I had almost forgotten this Tolkien part of the this forum existed, - I usally just visit the Willians part, the general film music section, and very occassionally the "Other Topics" part. Looking forward to exploring the Bear McCreary threads although I have read all his blog posts...I just haven't watched past the second episode for no reason in particular - well, I guess the show didn't really grab me, but I do remember watching the first episode right when a nap happened upon me, so that played a part in my lack of interest in the show, which does not at all extend to the music. Regarding tonight's concert, I'm curious how the Korean choir will handle the Khazad Dum parts which those Maori deep grunts! This would have been a huge film music week if I had managed to score tickets to next Saturday's Williams concert in Japan. Alas! Monoverantus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete 909 Posted August 27, 2023 Share Posted August 27, 2023 I loved it! The choir sounded great, and the two vocal soloist likewise sounded great. I enjoyed it far more than the Azkaban concert, I think because If I werre to make a list of Williams scores I'd like to see presented like this, Azkaban probably wouldn't make the top 20 as much as I love some of the pieces from it. My girlfriend heard someone complain at intermission that the music was too loud in the mix - which I thought was the point. Having said that, it did drown at the dialogue at times. That didn't bother me though. And poor horn player hit a wrong note during the one quote of the Gondor theme during the council of Elrond scene. But well one note out of millons, it was just noticeable. The Two Towers is scheduled for September 2024, and hopefully that means The Return of the King in 2025. That would surely be a mamoth undertaking! Jay and Chen G. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,400 Posted August 27, 2023 Author Share Posted August 27, 2023 Yeah, had that happen at a Trek 2009 LTP, the final cue before the credits, the trumpet flubbed the Gia main theme quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,733 Posted September 5, 2023 Share Posted September 5, 2023 I'm attempting to make 'alternative' OSTs for FotR and RotK to try to address a few issues each has, and I noticed something in Flight to the Ford /Give Up the Halfling and the 'film version' from the rarities. Hopefully someone who's seen the film and the theatrical/extended versions more than I have can offer some insight. Both Flight and Halfling have the brass clusters before going into the soloist again, but only the rarities 'film version' has the extra part when Arwen summons the water (I'd only noticed the lower-key crescendo previously). Is that extra bit actually missing from the CR track? It's got the film ending for the soloist so I wonder whether it's either a different version entirely, or if some editing has been done here. Trope 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,456 Posted September 5, 2023 Share Posted September 5, 2023 The CR track is edited for listening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Ware 526 Posted September 6, 2023 Share Posted September 6, 2023 The CR track cuts back to the original album edit (at 3:27) for the aleatoric horns, followed by a snippet tracked from elsewhere (3:45-3:58), then cuts back to the film take of Arwen's prayer (at 3:59). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,400 Posted September 6, 2023 Author Share Posted September 6, 2023 8 hours ago, Jim Ware said: The CR track cuts back to the original album edit (at 3:27) for the aleatoric horns, followed by a snippet tracked from elsewhere (3:45-3:58), then cuts back to the film take of Arwen's prayer (at 3:59). Where is it tracked from? The dialed out bit from The Nazgul/At the Sign of the Prancing Pony? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,456 Posted September 6, 2023 Share Posted September 6, 2023 Sounds like the end of Buckleberry Ferry and then a solo chord from somewhere else. Why they did this instead of just sticking to the music stem of the film... interesting choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,400 Posted September 6, 2023 Author Share Posted September 6, 2023 Just now, Jay said: Sounds like the end of Buckleberry Ferry and then a solo chord from somewhere else. Why they did this instead of just sticking to the music stem of the film... interesting choice. Yeah it was wierd finding out the film version was basically just the Rarities version without the chanting. 9 minutes ago, Jay said: Sounds like the end of Buckleberry Ferry and then a solo chord from somewhere else. The brass bit actually kind of sounds like Pass of Caradhras. (When the snow buries them) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,733 Posted September 6, 2023 Share Posted September 6, 2023 I'd always thought the film version just gave us the lower key section where the horns are - I hadn't paid enough attention to the scene to realise it was actually restoring an entire section of music. FotR really feels like an experimental release before they finally worked out what they were doing with TTT. There are so many edits and bits of tracking. enderdrag64 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,456 Posted September 6, 2023 Share Posted September 6, 2023 2 minutes ago, Richard Penna said: FotR really feels like an experimental release before they finally worked out what they were doing with TTT. There are so many edits and bits of tracking. Yep. Would love to see it revisited by someone following the Matessino model for giving a score a definitive presentation. Trope and enderdrag64 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,733 Posted September 6, 2023 Share Posted September 6, 2023 I've only been revisiting it because the FotR OST is my go-to car listening album and its flaws were starting to annoy me, so I was grabbing some CR bits to fix a few bits. That's when I properly noticed the tracking of Parth Galen twice in the Bag End cues (I assume they are replacing parts of Shadow of the Past). In a break from usual programming, I want to hear the intended score for these sections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,456 Posted September 6, 2023 Share Posted September 6, 2023 11 minutes ago, Richard Penna said: That's when I properly noticed the tracking of Parth Galen twice in the Bag End cues (I assume they are replacing parts of Shadow of the Past). In a break from usual programming, I want to hear the intended score for these sections. The Parth Galen tracking from 4:00-5:19 of "Keep It Secret, Keep It Safe" replaces the actual cue Shore recorded for the scene [Gandalf sitting alone in Bag End pondering on the ring, whispering "riddles in the dark", Frodo coming in and picking up the ring as Gandalf says "my precious", etc], which is included on the OST album in "The Shadow of the Past" from 0:00-0:59. The Parth Galen tracking from 2:00-3:39 of "A Conspiracy Unmasked" replaces the actual cue Shore recorded for the scene [Gandalf talking about Sauron covering all the lands in a second darkness and how the ring wants to return to its master, etc], which is completely unreleased and can only be heard in the background of the costume featurette in the EE appendixes. A. A. Ron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,733 Posted September 6, 2023 Share Posted September 6, 2023 Ah yes, I suspected that it might be just more than the opening of SotP that we were missing. I was examining those two cues to find the part Shore cut out (or didn't include, depending on how you see it) of the OST track at 2:10 where Gandalf is visiting Minas Tirith and looking through the parchments, and put it back in the OST track. I don't really think it was necessary for Shore to omit that from the album. Plus the Green Dragon / Bilbo performances that shouldn't be there. Two extremely flawed track presentations IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,400 Posted September 6, 2023 Author Share Posted September 6, 2023 52 minutes ago, Signals said: Yeah it was wierd finding out the film version was basically just the Rarities version without the chanting. The brass bit actually kind of sounds like Pass of Caradhras. (When the snow buries them) I also suppose chord could be possibly be from somewhere after 3:08 of Saruman the White and pitch shifted: But none of these sound exact enough to entirely convince me. 15 minutes ago, Richard Penna said: Plus the Green Dragon / Bilbo performances that shouldn't be there. Two extremely flawed track presentations IMO. It's Tolkien. his ghost held a gun to the producers heads and wouldn't let them press it without them 32 minutes ago, Richard Penna said: In a break from usual programming, I want to hear the intended score for these sections. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9U25jeV9qMHdnZjg/view?usp=drive_link&resourcekey=0-yGI4t5JbdbSrGFYcEDRRkQ https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9YXFJRmZ0WV9reGc/view?usp=drive_link&resourcekey=0-YMCu3sK5Fy5Wh5ksgz0jiQ https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9U01BbXBuT0R2aXM/view?usp=drive_link&resourcekey=0-Rm9MN3LHg7qln9F-lgwMVg Richard Penna 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jim Ware 526 Posted September 6, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted September 6, 2023 48 minutes ago, Jay said: Yep. Would love to see it revisited by someone following the Matessino model for giving a score a definitive presentation. It's definitely worth a revisit - maybe for the 25th anniversary? It would easily be four discs, perhaps five. Faleel, enderdrag64, Richard Penna and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderdrag64 630 Posted September 6, 2023 Share Posted September 6, 2023 28 minutes ago, Jim Ware said: It's definitely worth a revisit - maybe for the 25th anniversary? It would easily be four discs, perhaps five. It would be great to get the theatrical versions of cues too instead of just the extended edition versions A. A. Ron and Jay 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,400 Posted September 6, 2023 Author Share Posted September 6, 2023 1 hour ago, Jim Ware said: It's definitely worth a revisit - maybe for the 25th anniversary? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Cat 25 Posted September 7, 2023 Share Posted September 7, 2023 9 hours ago, Signals said: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9U25jeV9qMHdnZjg/view?usp=drive_link&resourcekey=0-yGI4t5JbdbSrGFYcEDRRkQ https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9YXFJRmZ0WV9reGc/view?usp=drive_link&resourcekey=0-YMCu3sK5Fy5Wh5ksgz0jiQ https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9U01BbXBuT0R2aXM/view?usp=drive_link&resourcekey=0-Rm9MN3LHg7qln9F-lgwMVg Where did 1:00 and following come from in the first clip? It sounds familiar, but also not something I've heard before. Same for 0:07 in the second clip, and 0:32 in the third? I can tell there's been some processing . . . 8 hours ago, Jim Ware said: It's definitely worth a revisit - maybe for the 25th anniversary? It would easily be four discs, perhaps five. I'd buy this in a heartbeat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,400 Posted September 7, 2023 Author Share Posted September 7, 2023 Third clip is from the costume documentary, talking about Saruman, and I think maybe Celeborn? Second clip is from the interactive map/fellowship journey thingy in the EE Appendices edited into a clip from one of the FOTR theatrical DVD menus. I believe the first clip is from a EE DVD menu, or the rear channels of the scoring or Tolkien/book to script (with Sibley etc.) documentaries on the EE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,456 Posted September 7, 2023 Share Posted September 7, 2023 16 minutes ago, Gollum Cat said: 0:32 in the third? 9 hours ago, Jay said: The Parth Galen tracking from 2:00-3:39 of "A Conspiracy Unmasked" replaces the actual cue Shore recorded for the scene [Gandalf talking about Sauron covering all the lands in a second darkness and how the ring wants to return to its master, etc], which is completely unreleased and can only be heard in the background of the costume featurette in the EE appendixes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. A. Ron 1,745 Posted September 7, 2023 Share Posted September 7, 2023 How did I not know about some of this tracking?? I've just updated my personal edits of Shadow of the Past and Flight to the Ford to better match Shore's original intentions. I don't suppose anyone's ever taken a vocal remover to the audio from this costume featurette? Would be nice to get that tracking out of A Conspiracy Unmasked. I guess that third clip above answered my question. Too bad it doesn't have better sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,400 Posted September 7, 2023 Author Share Posted September 7, 2023 39 minutes ago, A. A. Ron said: I guess that third clip above answered my question. Too bad it doesn't have better sound. It's possible AI could produce a better result, I will have to check st some point. And my breakdown threads should list all the tracking and edits (aside from today's Revelation about Give up the Halfling.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,990 Posted September 7, 2023 Share Posted September 7, 2023 15 hours ago, Richard Penna said: Plus the Green Dragon / Bilbo performances that shouldn't be there. Why? Is the diegetic music any less music? The soundtrack isn't for Howard Shore, its for The Lord of the Rings. If its music, and its heard in The Lord of the Rings, it belongs in there. There's still Plan 9 and Viggo Mortensen stuff we're missing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,733 Posted September 7, 2023 Share Posted September 7, 2023 I haven't bothered doing anything with Flight yet. My main gripe was wanting to fix the tracking in Keep and Conspiracy - I just put the first minute of Shadow where that belonged in the former and just removed the tracked music from the latter. Might also make sense to end Keep it Secret when Bilbo leaves so that all of the Shadow material is in its own track, although that might make it a bit long. 12 minutes ago, Chen G. said: The soundtrack isn't for Howard Shore Umm, it sort of is. I don't mind at all those performances being on the set; I just don't want to hear Gandalf/Bilbo's ditties on top of the score. Put the 'cast' versions as bonus track or something. Thankfully both can be removed entirely using A.I. so it's not a big deal. 2 hours ago, Signals said: It's possible AI could produce a better result, I will have to check st some point. If you were able to send me a raw sound file, I could run it through the website I use and see if it's better. enderdrag64 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,456 Posted September 7, 2023 Share Posted September 7, 2023 6 hours ago, A. A. Ron said: How did I not know about some of this tracking?? Have you noticed yet that the music just before Aragorn throws the torch at the last Ringwraith is tracked in from earlier in the cue? The actual music Shore wrote for it showed up in a video game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,733 Posted September 7, 2023 Share Posted September 7, 2023 I hadn't noticed most of the tracking before because the areas it touches most is well represented on album, and very listenably. I'd paid attention more to the completely unreleased sections and the Moria bits. And to be fair, the actual missing intended parts are minor. I find the cast inclusions and the lack of a definitive set of alternates/theatrical versions more annoying. I think a MM-style expansion goes on my long term wishlist. enderdrag64 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,456 Posted September 7, 2023 Share Posted September 7, 2023 It's #1 on mine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. A. Ron 1,745 Posted September 7, 2023 Share Posted September 7, 2023 10 hours ago, Signals said: It's possible AI could produce a better result, I will have to check st some point. And my breakdown threads should list all the tracking and edits (aside from today's Revelation about Give up the Halfling.) Awesome. I'm going through your Fellowship thread right now and it's kind of insane how many variations there are for each cue. By the way, I've sent you a message requesting access to the google drive files you shared in that thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Cat 25 Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 Has anybody actually put together a true complete edit of Fellowship of the Ring, undoing the micro edits and all, superior to the actual CR release? I'm really sorry if this has been mentioned before. I dip in from time to time but don't have the memory that some here have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,456 Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 1 minute ago, Gollum Cat said: Has anybody actually put together a true complete edit of Fellowship of the Ring, undoing the micro edits and all, superior to the actual CR release? Yeah 1 minute ago, Gollum Cat said: I'm really sorry if this has been mentioned before. I dip in from time to time but don't have the memory that some here have. There's nothing to be sorry about, this forum exists to discuss film scores over and over again for all of time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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