crumbs 14,318 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Maybe George just hated the harpsichord? Crappy decision either way. JW seems to really like these little combined thematic codas at the end of his Star Wars credits. Don't think anything will beat Rey's Theme melding with the Force Theme and Luke's Theme closing it off. Simply brilliant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 8 minutes ago, crumbs said: Maybe George just hated the harpsichord? Crappy decision either way. JW seems to really like these little combined thematic codas at the end of his Star Wars credits. Don't think anything will beat Rey's Theme melding with the Force Theme and Luke's Theme closing it off. Simply brilliant! They had to fuck around with the end credits on the blu-ray by replacing the Rey's Theme bit with the other Rey's Theme track. Ugh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demodex 557 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Who watches to end of the credits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Marvel fans, and anyone hoping a non-Marvel film copies Marvel tropes. DarthDementous 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 1 hour ago, Demodex said: Who watches to end of the credits? In the cinema, I do for any film whose score I'm interested in. Not Mr. Big 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 As much as I enjoy Across the Stars, this definitely goes to Rey's Theme. It's Williams' best theme in years. Not Mr. Big 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 "Across the Stars" is too long and gets a wee bit tiresome in my opinion. "Rey's Theme" is perfectly constructed and paced. Not Mr. Big 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,515 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 The lush, gorgeous "Across the Stars" -- one of Williams' finest compositions since 2000 -- gets only HALF the votes of the pretty, but undervelopped, motif-like "Rey's Theme"?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Oh please. Cerebral Cortex and Taikomochi 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 "Pretty, but underdeveloped motif-like Rey's theme"? Taikomochi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Disco Stu 15,495 Posted January 3, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted January 3, 2017 1 minute ago, BloodBoal said: "Pretty, but underdeveloped motif-like Rey's theme"? Right? As applied in the film it's one of JW's most emotionally and intelligently developed themes of recent years and the concert arrangement track is breathtaking. crumbs, Taikomochi, Not Mr. Big and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,370 Posted January 3, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted January 3, 2017 Rey's Theme? Underdeveloped? Thor, I'm sorry, but have you not actually gave the TFA score a thoughtful ear at all? The theme may or may not be to your liking, and that's fine. But it's one of the most developed themes JW has written in a decade. It had many variations throughout the picture, starting from its delicate introduction in The Scavenger through its huge, triumphant variations in Farewell and The Trip, not to mention its sweeping variation in The Abduction. On top of that, it has two different concert arrangements, in the Rey's Theme track and the End Credits. Again, you may not happen to care for the theme, and that's fine, but if you think its underdeveloped than you are not paying attention and this takes away from your credibility as a person paid to write about film scores! Cerebral Cortex, _deleted_ and Taikomochi 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,515 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 I'm not talking about underdevelopped in terms of how it's used in the film, but rather in itself. It's more like a Bernard Herrmann 'cluster of notes' than a proper theme, IMO. Closer to a motif. Which is why it is very flexible in terms of narrative use and variation. I do like it -- it's the best part of the underwhelming score -- but it isn't even CLOSE to such an accomplished, longlined, elegant theme as "Across the Stars" in any shape or form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 You probably prefer more conventional film music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 They're like 4 to 5 differents phrases forming Rey's theme. Hardly underdeveloped or motif-like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,515 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 7 minutes ago, BloodBoal said: They're like 4 to 5 differents phrases forming Rey's theme. Hardly underdeveloped or motif-like. In comparison to something like "Across the Stars", it definitely is. It's like it's hinting towards something that could be a gorgeous, welldevelopped pastoral theme, but it never really gets there. I understand that's the narrative point of the theme -- i.e. for a character trying to find herself -- but you could argue the same for "Across" (a love trying to find itself against difficult odds) or even the Force theme as it's applied to Luke in the original trilogy; and in both cases they manage to 'set themselves' in heart and soul. Then again, I feel that's a problem with ALL of Williams' music since 2005, so it's no big surprise. Even WAR HORSE, which is the best of the bunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,370 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 6 minutes ago, Thor said: I'm not talking about underdevelopped in terms of how it's used in the film, but rather in itself. It's more like a Bernard Herrmann 'cluster of notes' than a proper theme, IMO. Closer to a motif. Which is why it is very flexible in terms of narrative use and variation. I'm sorry Thor, but that is simply not true! Are you sure you've actually listened to this score in proper conditions and not just bringing through to get a review out in time? 1 minute ago, BloodBoal said: They're like 4 to 5 differents phrases forming Rey's theme. Hardly underdeveloped or motif-like. Indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steb74 53 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Thor, you may prefer Across The Stars, which is great, fine .......but Rey's Theme is a completely developed theme, it is not just a motif. If you can't hear and follow its development, well that's a personal shortcoming rather than a musical one. It isn't a Bernard Herrmann 'cluster of notes' , whatever that is, lol ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 It's one of the reasons why I prefer TFA to the prequels scores. Rey's theme is carried through and varied throughout the entire film. It's actually part of it's structure as a whole. In the Prequels the big new theme soften felt a bit segregated from the score. Featuring in it when needed, but not as much part of it's DNA. Cerebral Cortex 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,515 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 2 minutes ago, Jay said: I'm sorry Thor, but that is simply not true! Are you sure you've actually listened to this score in proper conditions and not just bringing through to get a review out in time? I've listened to the whole album some 5-6 times in full, and played and listened to "Rey's Theme" a few more times than that -- including concert versions and whatnot. So yeah -- no 'haste' judgements here. OK, perhaps 'motif' is taking it a bit too far (that would depend on definition), but for me it really sounds like a theme with only the counterpoint line. It "lacks" something for me, even if I enjoy it for what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,370 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 How can you listen to The Scavenger - The Abduction - Farewell and The Trip and think the theme is underdeveloped? This is madness! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,515 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Again, I'm not talking about how it's used in the movie, in its many variations. I'm talking about it as a self-sufficient composition. For this kind of neo-classical score, I prefer something more longlined, direct and emotionally immediate. "Across the Stars" is a perfect example of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,370 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Rey's Theme is long-lined Thor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Indeed! I'd say it's possibly even more long-lined than Across The Stars! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Maybe it's just because the piece doesn't follow the usual logic of A-B-A-C-A, but focuses more on the counterpoint and the variation of the various musical figures (for example, the way he goes up and up and up with key harmony, or the way the rhythm is tied with the main melody). It's a piece that demands for a more proactive listening, perhaps. Not Mr. Big 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Yes, it isnt like a pop-song. 8 minutes ago, Jay said: How can you listen to The Scavenger - The Abduction - Farewell and The Trip and think the theme is underdeveloped? This is madness! This is Thor, why are you surprised? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,515 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 3 minutes ago, Jay said: Rey's Theme is long-lined Thor. I don't think so, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,370 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 You're wrong Thor! This isn't an opinion thing (again, its perfectly fine if you don't like it), but it IS a long-lined theme! Are you sure you are listening to the same CD as the rest of us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Whether you think it is or not doesn't matter! If someone thinks Across The Stars is not a long-lined theme, does that mean it isn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 This is a good way to understand Rey's Theme better: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,515 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 1 minute ago, Jay said: You're wrong Thor! This isn't an opinion thing (again, its perfectly fine if you don't like it), but it IS a long-lined theme! Are you sure you are listening to the same CD as the rest of us? Jay, If I have some issues with the theme, there are reasons for this. And I'm trying to relate to you those reasons. Merely saying "I don't like it" (which wouldn't be true, btw) doesn't add anything to a conversation. For me, "Rey's Theme" boils down to -- in essence -- a rhythmic figure, and the main 6-note "melody" which basically revolves around the same few notes (and that then appear in various variations throughout). That doesn't quality as 'longlined' to me -- at least not when we're comparing to strong themes like "Across the Stars". We can argue back and forth if 'longlined' is the right word or not, but that's my take on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Not if you can't read music. Does seem to be a lot going on. Thor indicated he only listened to the CD about 5 times. I recall Rey's Theme needed a bit of time for me to get my head around it. It doesnt have the typical Williams concert track theme>bridge>theme we are used too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,370 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 1 minute ago, Thor said: Jay, If I have some issues with the theme, there are reasons for this. And I'm trying to relate to you those reasons. Merely saying "I don't like it" (which wouldn't be true, btw) doesn't add anything to a conversation. For me, "Rey's Theme" boils down to -- in essence -- a rhythmic figure, and the main 6-note "melody" which basically revolves around the same few notes (and that then appear in various variations throughout). That doesn't quality as 'longlined' to me -- at least not when we're comparing to strong themes like "Across the Stars". We can argue back and forth if 'longlined' is the right word or not, but that's my take on it. 6 notes? Her theme is 13 notes, with several other subsections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 2 minutes ago, Thor said: For me, "Rey's Theme" boils down to -- in essence -- a rhythmic figure, and the main 6-note "melody" which basically revolves around the same few notes (and that then appear in various variations throughout). So, a bit like Across The Stars, then? DarthDementous 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,515 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 1 minute ago, Jay said: 6 notes? Her theme is 12 notes, with several other subsections. The basis is the 6 notes that first appear at appr. 0:30 that then resolves, and repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,370 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Well, I'm sorry you can't see the detail that JW has put into this theme. Maybe someday it will click for you >shrug< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,515 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 9 minutes ago, BloodBoal said: So, a bit like Across The Stars, then? Not at all. "Across the Stars" is not a "rhythmic figure & variations" the way "Rey's Theme" and much of the rest of the score is. Listen, I know everyone is going apeshit over this new STAR WARS score, but the fact is that I haven't warmed to it. You can ridicule that all you want, but you just have to deal with it. Instead of just saying "I don't like it", which wouldn't be true, I'm trying -- in my laymen terms -- to explain what my issues are. For me, it comes off as more of a figure, a motif, underdevelopped, shortlined, whatever you want to call it. I think, deep down, most of you know what I mean when you have an extrovert theme like "Across the Stars" to compare with. I'm sorry that I don't have the musical vernacular to get the point more succinctly across. DarthDementous 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 I can't believe you actually attempted to get Thor to change his mind. I don't think that's ever happened. 1 minute ago, Thor said: I think, deep down, most of you know what I mean when you have an extrovert theme like "Across the Stars" to compare with. I don't know what you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,515 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 1 minute ago, Stefancos said: I can't believe you actually attempted to get Thor to change his mind. I don't think that's ever happened. Why would that be a goal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Because you are incorrect, and for some reason Jason would like you to be correct. I've given up years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,515 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 I'm incorrect in having issues with the theme and score? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 No. But you are incorrect in your descriptions of them. I think you have a tendency to form an opinion very early, and once it's forms it sets in concrete and cannot be altered. That makes it difficult for you to appreciate works that you sort of dismissed earlier. Hints of this appear in your writing both here and on FSM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 3 minutes ago, Thor said: Listen, I know everyone is going apeshit over this new STAR WARS score, but the fact is that I haven't warmed to it. You can ridicule that all you want, but you just have to deal with it. We're not ridiculing you for not liking the score/theme, we're ridiculing you for calling Rey's theme "underdeveloped and motif-like", even though it's anything but. To me at least, it's as developed as Across The Stars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,370 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Again, there's nothing wrong with you having issues with the score. There's nothing wrong with you liking or not liking any aspects of the score. There's nothing wrong with you not warming up to any aspect of the score. There's nothing wrong with you not liking the score, liking some parts, not liking others, whatever. Its simply factually incorrect for you to claim that Rey's Theme is underdeveloped and shortlined. That's simply not the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steb74 53 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Thor, nobody cares if you don't like the score, it isn't about you. It's simply about you trying to present evidence that isn't true, everything you've offered is not musically correct. All of this rhythmic figure & variations, motif business just shows that even you don't understand either of the themes or what you're talking about in general when it comes to music. That's the issue ....go on hating, disliking the theme all you want, nobody cares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Set in concrete... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,515 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Well, I'm just trying my best to find the proper adjectives to describe my feelings towards the theme, and what my issues are. Hopefully, between all the ones I've attempted (apparently unsuccessfully), you've gleaned where I want, at least. As most of Williams' scores in the last 10 years, there's been a higher reliance on rhytmic figures and more 'whimsicality' (especially in the action material) and less on the 'classical' themes that we last saw in 2005 (IMO). That's something I haven't really warmed to. "Rey's Theme" is -- to me -- a good example of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 1 minute ago, Stefancos said: Set in concrete... We must break him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 I really don't understand your issues, Thor. I don't understand what you mean by "rhythmic figure" (especially when you intend it as as a pejorative). I mean any section of any piece of music can be described as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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