Fabulin 3,514 Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 There has been some discussion about how opinions about film composers change. I think it would be interesting to expand on that... In the 1940s it was either Korngold or Steiner at the top. For a lack of releases, the fames of both continued to erode until the 1972 Charles Gerhardt & George Korngold initiative, but at that point, the new top dog in the medium was Herrmann. When Herrmann died in 1975, there were (supposedly) many critical voices that "with no heirs apparent" great symphonic film music was done for. Herrmann's fame as "the greatest American film composer" remained relatively untouched over the next decades, and the "hands-down" opinions about him were relatively a commonplace as far as into the 2000s. Over the last 15 years, however, the consensus appears to have shifted again. One aspect of that was an inevitable demographic change, with many of those who had witnessed Herrmann's scores in the cinemas back in the day (and who possibly did not witness as many scores of the next generation!) passing away. The other was the effect of the continuous work of composers of a generation junior to Herrmann. And in fact, by the 2010s, his position became succeeded by two very long-lived (bless them) composers. While there are some who prefer Goldsmith over either of them (or Rózsa, or Rota, or Prokofiev's what... 2 scores?), it seems to me (correct me if I'm wrong) that currently there are two main camps in the field: Williams, and Morricone. The third camp is possibly Zimmer, but I am not quite sure if his critical "legs" won't resemble those of Steiner and Mancini more than Korngold or Herrmann in the future. The time will tell. But what will it tell? Feel free to discuss what you think will the landscape look like a cool 20 years from now. What views might change, and in what directions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 I think about this sometime, especially since this forum is now over 20 years old, and I think about how different everyone felt about various composers and scores in 2000s compared to now in 2020. Great discussion topic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 I'm surprised that Rozsa has stayed popular along with Herrmann No other Golden Age composers will have a following in 2040. Zimmer will last thru his scores for Nolan and Disney. Elfman will endure thru his Burton scores. Williams and Golsmith Barry and Morricone will endure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,695 Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 I've thought about this recently, relating to the idea of what will happen to the film music landscape when Williams passes, and I've largely come to the conclusion that I think very little will change. JW has been in semi-retirement for years now; only scoring Star Wars, very occasionally Spielberg movies, and the odd other project when he takes a fancy. The period of JW writing several tentpole scores a year and giving the film score community hope, is long gone. There are plenty of other composers giving films lush orchestral scores, such that the medium is in no danger of going away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 There will be no film scores by that time, either because movies will no longer be produced due to studios collapsing from the Covid Depression or rioters will destroy them, or movies will still be made, but the realistic and relatable movement will have become so prevalent, scores will be viewed as old hat and movies will remain unscored to achieve full immersion and realism. Because stylisation bad or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 My opinion of film composers in 2040? - "They are all dead." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,473 Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 Assuming that by 2040 movies will still have been made... I'm not optimistic with the future of film scores, at least from the orchestral kind. Williams is in semi-retirement right now, and over the next 20 years we also no longer will have Silvestri, JNH, Elfman, etc. But the bigger problem is that the music that more traditional composers write is no longer "hip, cool and trendy". Just look at the scores being praised right now. People like Mica Levi, Nicholas Britell, Hildur, etc.... they are the future of film scores, not Giacchino. And I believe that new composers will no longer draw inspirations from Rósza, Steiner or even Williams, but from the more trendy tendencies right now. Unless another John Williams comes out to compose a new Star Wars score and start a new revolution, much like it happened on the 70s, I do believe that orchestras will be less and less important for film scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Illustrious Jerry 3,356 Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 2 hours ago, Edmilson said: People like Mica Levi, Nicholas Britell, Hildur, etc.... they are the future of film scores, not Giacchino. And I believe that new composers will no longer draw inspirations from Rósza, Steiner or even Williams, but from the more trendy tendencies right now. I think you misinterpret the current (and future) musical landscape of movies. Sure, names like Levi, Guonadottir, and a plethora of RC composers may get the most attention from the public eye in the future, but if we're talking about a generation of young composers that are taking up the helm for film score fans, especially in the next few years, look no further than the likes of Göransson, Britell, Willis and Hurwitz. They're still in the early years of their career, and have already proven highly reliable. Besides, you seem to forget that not all of today's great film composers are nearing the end of their careers; Marianelli, Desplat, McCreary, Pemberton and Powell, just to name a few, aren't going anywhere! The great thing about all the composers I've listed is that they're all developing (or already have) a distinct musical fingerprint, and in most cases are quite open to not just orchestral music, but a unique convergence of traditional and contemporary sounds. And besides, art house cinema, indie films and international films often present opportunities for orchestral scores, or at least musically interesting scores. Unfortunately most folks don't care to look hard enough for these, and instead only focus on blockbuster scores for big movies (see Zimmer and Giacchino). If you adjust where you look in the industry, you will always find good music somewhere. As a closer, I think it's highly unreasonable to say that unless we get another John Williams then the future of film scores looks grey. Perhaps you need a more open mindset? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,473 Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 From this all new batch of composers, I believe we have some interesting promises, but the scores that get critical acclaim these days are from the "Chernobyl" type: experimental and hard to listen, more sound design than score per se. Just look at all the acclaim that score got. It's hard to be positive about the future when the successful scores of the present go against everything you learned to love about film music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,531 Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 3 hours ago, Edmilson said: Ró 3 hours ago, Edmilson said: sza Edmilson and Fabulin 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 9 minutes ago, Edmilson said: From this all new batch of composers, I believe we have some interesting promises, but the scores that get critical acclaim these days are from the "Chernobyl" type: experimental and hard to listen, more sound design than score per se. Just look at all the acclaim that score got. People actually listen to that and enjoy it?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,473 Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 I don't think many people enjoy listening to scores like Under the Skin, A Quiet Place and Chernobyl, but they consider them effective on the movies, which is a lot worse. As Jon Broxton describe it: Quote This is the sort of film music I dislike the most; music which dispenses entirely with any sort of emotional content and simply presents a relentless background whine of electronic nothingness, music that is either so indistinguishable from sound effects that it’s rendered pointless, or is so terrible when you can hear it that it becomes an irritating distraction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 How is that worse? Those scores are indeed very effective in their movies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,473 Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 I dread a future on which scores like Chernobyl become the norm. They're utterly unpleasant to listen, but who cares since it's "effective". We don't need emotion, we don't need melody, we don't need musical commenting about the characters and their relationships...heck, we don't even need other musicians! Just put some electronic wallpaper and it'll be considered by the critics as an "effective" score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 You're a very pessimistic person today. Film scoring isn't a one-size-fits-all medium. Some productions excel with the type of music you describe, some don't. Expand your horizons! The Illustrious Jerry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 One thing I do expect is an AI or machine based component. I think there will definitely be algorithms to automatically score films or atleast spot them. Fabulin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 Automated realism and relatability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 Re: CHERNOBYL It was a FANTASTIC mini series so the music got more attention than it would have other wise. It was not all sound design; there was a recurring mournful choral piece, accompanying refugees, that is probably the reason the score was acclaimed. JOKER was definitely not sound design, and deserves its plaudits. Shark lives so far in the past he considers Brahms ' avant-garde'- Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 Shark prefers CPE Bach to J.S. BACH (or PDQ Bach!)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 22 hours ago, PuhgreÞiviÞm said: There will be no film scores by that time, either because movies will no longer be produced due to studios collapsing from the Covid Depression or rioters will destroy them, or movies will still be made, but the realistic and relatable movement will have become so prevalent, scores will be viewed as old hat and movies will remain unscored to achieve full immersion and realism. Because stylisation bad or something. Closer to reality than you think. By 2050, cinemas will be gone. The end of the evolution will be virtual reality equipment at home, and interactive photo realistic video games will probably be commonplace. There will be no individual TV stations anymore. There will be a handful of huge, strictly regulated companies that produce movies/series in house, and release them on On-Demand services only. All classic movies will be digitized, and either be released on demand in full form, in euthanized form, or be flat out banned for unwanted content. What used to be TV zapping will be a form of today's YouTube, with private channels with various content - appropriate content of course - that you also need to pay for. Music production for all of those will largely be reduced to digital studio production. So that, you know, we can finally leave the terrible suppressing tradition of Western music behind. John Williams will be regarded as a great composer, who unfortunately stood for all that was wrong with Hollywood tradition. TheUlyssesian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,044 Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 I can't imagine where we'll be in 20 years. As always, I'm sure popular music will influence music written to support other entertainment products. I think reality will probably end up being both stranger and more familiar than many of the predictions we could make. The future seems to go that way. The things we assume will change don't always do so, and the things we take for granted as stable and enduring often aren't. Look at us in the year 2020, still driving earthbound, gas-guzzling cars as we carry the collective knowledge of all humanity in our pockets. Fabulin and KK 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 Henry Johnson is an emerging new talent Bill Jones is an overrated hack James Fisher's score for Hope House is an underated gem And don't even get me started about Tonsi... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 36 minutes ago, gkgyver said: Closer to reality than you think. By 2050, cinemas will be gone. The end of the evolution will be virtual reality equipment at home, and interactive photo realistic video games will probably be commonplace. There will be no individual TV stations anymore. There will be a handful of huge, strictly regulated companies that produce movies/series in house, and release them on On-Demand services only. All classic movies will be digitized, and either be released on demand in full form, in euthanized form, or be flat out banned for unwanted content. What used to be TV zapping will be a form of today's YouTube, with private channels with various content - appropriate content of course - that you also need to pay for. Music production for all of those will largely be reduced to digital studio production. So that, you know, we can finally leave the terrible suppressing tradition of Western music behind. John Williams will be regarded as a great composer, who unfortunately stood for all that was wrong with Hollywood tradition. My friend thinks movies from the 1970s are "old" and can't stand to watch them at all, but to my eye they look contemporary, exciting and fresh. How is it two people born in 1985 can hold such polar opposite views on a decade of film that shortly preceded their own? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 You were born in 1985? That explains everything!😛 7 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said: One thing I do expect is an AI or machine based component. I think there will definitely be algorithms to automatically score films or atleast spot them. Jan Hammer did that in the MIAMI VICE ep " Shadows in the Dark". It's possibly the single best scored episode! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 28 minutes ago, bruce marshall said: You were born in 1985? That explains everything!😛 Well I am only 15! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 I have a friend who for the longest time refused to watch black and white movies claiming without color he couldn’t tell faces apart or see what was going on properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 48 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said: I have a friend who for the longest time refused to watch black and white movies claiming without color he couldn’t tell faces apart or see what was going on properly. Maybe he is color blind? Unlucky Bastard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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