Restored Isolated Score: HOOK

[Holko 10,016]

Well, here we are.

I like this movie and I love this score. This was an absolute pleasure to do. Even if some of it is butchered to shit.

You know the drill by now, score first, movie edited to it, sometimes even disregarding the actual in-film usage/sync. Primary source was the LLL Ultimate Edition, with the leaked sessions used in only a handful of places for a clean ending/opening where needed. I tried my best to fill some gaps by looping footage and adding back dialogue where possible, the 1991 script was useful for some of this. The sketches with sync point notes were also sometimes helpful but since the leak is incomplete, it was not always as useful as it could have been. The booklet already has a great track-by-track so I wasn't aiming to do the same in full detail, I went more for trying to highlight some specific sync points/scoring choices since in these videos that's the primary focus.

I stepped a certain aspect of video production up for this project, hope it won't go totally unnoticed .

 

Thanks to @Jay for some helpful resources, clarification and help, hook-movie.com for the teaser (how the hell is it still officially unreleased???) and stills, @Goldfingers for some Low Below information and video, @QuartalHarmony for the lyrics transriptions, @Chewy and @crumbs for support and feedback, and of course everyone who worked for years to make the wonderful LLL set a reality!

 

 

 

Hook Trailer - A mysteriously enticing motif sets the stage as the camera pulls back from the Tristar logo and reveals the map. Jolly Roger comes in as we start to leave The Known (with a strike for the magnifying lens focusing on the Elizabeth Tower). Once we're past The Unknown, the mysterious motif comes to the fore again, then brass accents the glass gliding over ships, and finally the Peter Pan theme comes in as the first cast name comes in full view. The glide from cast to the director credit is accented, the brass turns darker as The Lost Boys come into view as the target, the magnifying glass shifting to focus the light is accented again, a cymbal wipes away any rhythmic elements as the Nevertree starts burning. The title card goes back to Jolly Roger, but the rest of the credits see the return of Peter Pan again.

 

 

 

1M2 Pt.1 Piano Intro - Mostly unused, the final film pretty much only has the Tinkerbell section, starting midway into the title card. The Tinkerbell section happens to match the shots of all the kids' faces in length so I thought I'd put it there and reedit the titles to fit with the opening notes.

1M2 Pt.2 Peter's Entrance - The script has a cool introduction scene for Peter (Banning), and I could find evidence that something like this was shot: At the end of the crane shot revealing the audience, he's not sitting next to Jack yet, then it cuts to the closeup where he's there already, fidgeting a bit, possibly as he's just sat down. Therefore I included a reduced version of it and mostly disregarded the film edit sync for both these cues.

1M3 We Don't Wanna Grow Up

1M3B Yuppie Sounds - This revised version (the last cue recorded) fits the final cut perfectly.

 

 

 

2M1 Wendy's Entrance - The first proper orchestral cue starts as Peter reacts to Wendy's call (possibly the most genuine we've seen him so far), and Childhood enters as Wendy comes into proper view, then comes back for a reprise when Wendy playfully tells everyone to stop growing up.

2M2 The Bedroom - Various mysterious and ominous textures follow, Peter opening the door and closing the window are especially accented.

 

 

 

3M1 The Nursery Scene - The cue starts as the camera starts properly pushing in after some initial wobbles, then further strengthens the Wendy/Childhood connection.

 

 

 

3M2 Saying Goodnight - The sketch says this cue starts on "Moira Leans In", but there's no more clues about the missing bits. I guess when JW scored the scene, there were still more remnants of Moira's Lullaby that ended up being removed? Anyway, When You're Alone connects the kids to their parents, Childhood is connected to Wendy again, and we also get the first of many prominent "lights turning off" accents.

 

 

 

3M3 Hook Returns to Kensington - Finally JW gets some meat to show off his chops, accenting many cuts and beats very dramatically. For whatever godforsaken reason, the final film loops the cue a bit near the end, pushing the obvious stingers for the sheets rising and Wendy's glass falling very much out of sync.

 

 

 

4M1 Hook is Back - This cue bends the Witches of Eastwick temp track into a similarly highly dramatic and reactive piece.

 

 

 

4M2 Forgotten How To Fly - Mothers scores the camera pullback through the window appropriately melancholy, and Tootles deserves this fun little opening melody, but its reprise is a bit misplaced IMO.

 

 

 

4M3 Looney Wendy Insert - This revised first half downplays the titular looneyness quite a bit and goes for a simple magical mood.

4M3 Looney Wendy (second half) - Low Below and Hook's theme dramatically underline the gravity of the situation.

4M4 The Arrival of Tink - Spielberg really shows his complete trust in JW for Tinkerbell's introduction, instead of impressive effects it's all Robin's acting and Johnny's music that depict her crazed darting before we are actually allowed to see it. The rest of the cue, based on her theme, is not insignificantly edited down in the final film, but I could find ways to loop material and found some lines in the script to fill it in.

4M5/5M1 I Don't Believe In Fairies + Extension - The opening is severely cut down, but the rest fits fine. The section where Peter tries to explain Tink away has some of the most peculiarly "out there" scoring in the film for a scene like this, my best explanation is it's JW trying to depict how Robin's mind worked. After this act's buildup, the grand Childhood renditions at the end are thoroughly earned.

5M2 Arrival at Neverland - The film dials out the opening flutes and strings following Peter's finger, the cue only enters with the crazed sting for the first view of the clock. The ending probably wrongly goes over footage that would be scored by the next cue's ending.

5M3 Slicing the Hand - Completely unused, but thankfully the script describes the missing scene.

5M4 I'll Take Those Shoes - JW made some interesting choices here about what to emphasise or leave to the sound effects department.

5M5 Show Us Your Hook - The perfect Entr'acte to the next act of the story, even if the footage is cobbled together from tiny sad remainders of an awesome musical sequence.

 

 

 

5M6/6M1 Hook's Entrance - Pompous and tense explorations of Hook's material. Take note of how the music follows the tempo of things like the "Hook, Hook!" chant and his footsteps, almost as if they were still continuing to follow a choreographed routine to playback. The final film dials out everything between "Revenge is mine" and him descending the stairs, for which it uses a different take without the brass and bells embellishments, then it compresses the ending around Glenn Close a bit.

6M2 Draw Your Sword! - Dark desperate Childhood renditions are briefly interrupted by comedic bits. The final film only keeps the last third, starting with the reveal of the scar. It also runs longer than the cue, I had to cut out a bit around the scar, and some final insults Hook has for him at the end.

 

 

 

6M3 Hoist the Kiddies - The desperate Childhood returns in various tense and dark variations. This cue is completely unused in the film, the footage was severely cut down, the script describes a different scene (Peter and Hook talk over each other, then Hook just sends Peter to walk the plank), and the cue is missing from the leaked sketches, so this is 100% pure guesswork.

6M4 Tink Strikes a Deal - After the dark mood continues building, Tinkerbell's theme and some playful stings finally interrupt it and crescendo to a grand Childhood. The film cuts out a good chunk near the start but I couldn't find any good clues about exactly what could have been there.

6M5/7M1 The Mermaids - Gorgeous impressionistic writing scores the change in mood. The film cuts the end of the sequence down pretty noticeably.

7M2 To Neverland - Fun scoring for Peter's various misadventures around the island, interrupted by a grand statement of Believe for the island reveal. The sequence was heavily shortened with some pretty noticeably not matching cuts.

7M3 Lost Boys Appear - The fun continues with lots of stings, runs and whooshes for Peter's falls and Tink's and the Boys' movements, a new fanfaresque motif and some wild Childhood variations. This part of the sequence was also cut down a bit.

7M4 Enter Rufio - A new ominous motif for Rufio's cart leads to more highly reactive scoring. The cue is completely unused but mostly self-explanatory - the cart sequence was shortened and the conversation at the end was lengthened so I had to try and adjust accordingly.

7M5 The Lost Boys Ballet (original version) - This mad-tempo powerhouse of a cue mostly fits perfectly, except for a chunk in the middle which was removed. The final film also dials out the final timpani roll and uses an overlay for the basketball part (see later).

 

 

 

7M6/8M1 The Face of Pan - JW scores this pivotal scene in a very organically grand way, still reacting to beats but you wouldn't know by just listening.

8M2 Don't Try to Stop Me... Smee! - Hook's themes play in more gentle and understated renditions until he decides to "get dramatic", when pedal notes turn it into more of a march with even gallows-snares entering for the coming self-execution.

 

 

 

8M3 Smee Steals the Show - Overall this cue is more like a formal arrangement that just plays over the final scene.

8M4A Pick'Em Up - The film cuts this down pretty severely and noticeably, badly upsetting the obvious call-response-call-response structure. The opening is extended in the film over the shot of Hook laughing.

8M4B More Never Band - The film transitions into it with a crossfade, losing the opening for the sword.

8M6 New Hook Lessons - Stick With Me plays in a sugarcoated sleazy version, but only Maggie sees through it, getting an agitated string section for her attack and capture. JW then reinforces the genuine threat for the ending.

9M3 The Banquet - Williams is firing on all orchestrational cylinders, from the xylophone and flute runs for the corn eating to the tuba for Thud Butt, the more serious mood for Rufio sitting down, the semi-religioso sound when they're preparing to say grace.

 

 

 

 

9M4 Cornucopia + Insert - The score comes in as Peter delivers his first real blow Rufio can't respond to (the film only starts fading it in when the Boys start cheering him for it). The insert holds back the return of the Banquet/Lost Boys theme until the camera pulls back and the feast begins again.

9M5 Cutting the Coconut - At the start, the cue opts to go for Peter Banning's perspective and uneasiness.

10M1 When You're Alone (film edit) - Since the script describes the original very different scene with Maggie and the slave kids, Hook and Jack seesawing on the cannon and conversations before and after, I opted to just recreate the film edit here (utilising some AI separation to help transition the music and voice at different, better points).

10MA Believe Your Eyes - This deleted scene is released really weirdly, the first portion with unfinished bluescreen and a long Peter closeup, and the rest starting with a roughly finished shorter wide shot overlapping the same lines as that closeup. I got the unfinished bluescreen wide shot up to a very roughly more finished level, then combined the two into something that made sense and fit with the cue - Childhood comes in as Peter lies down to reflect, Tink's arrival gets harp arpeggios, the mood briefly changes when we see Rufio, then we return to the finished film with the lights turning off with nice accents.

 

 

10M2 Stop That Clock! - After some long ticking, the score picks it up with a clock imitation as Hook opens his eyes, which returns later in the museum when he notices ticking again. Near the end Jack's breakdown and Hook's comforting are scored genuinely with When You're Alone, but the end turns sour exposing the manipulation with a snarling Stick With Me.

10M3/11MA Take Me Out to the Ball Game - Thought I'd include this for fun. The full piece is used once in its entirety, the rhythm vamping is used twice, shortened both time.

 

 

 

11M1 The Home Run - When You're Alone comes in as the pirates remind Jack of Maggie, then after a comedic interlude for the switching and a tense section, Williams switches the theme into full sports movie climax mode. Peter's flight attempts are scores by a Childhood that's rushing but doesn't quite have the heart. The ball hit might seem strange like this but it fits well with the sound effect in the final film. The film replaces the opening until the curveball tension with 9M5 Cutting the Coconut.

11M2/12M1 Follow That Shadow - Believe starts but is interrupted as Peter sees his younger self's reflection. After some Mickey Mousing, Childhood scores him reading out the names and the welcome-home party, with a Tinkerbell phrase also getting a nod.

12M2 Peter Remembers - Believe finally properly appears and briefly takes over the score as Peter starts to remember. Childhood then dominates until the end of the cue for the flashback scenes. The entire cue is mostly only reactive by using understated accents, changing the instrumentation for the next theme statement, and by fluidly varying the tempo. The final Childhood phrase is removed in the film, I could only solve that somewhat awkwardly.

12M3 The Flying Sequence - This is a strange mess in the film, it's edited down, sometimes out of sync, so I had to shuffle it around, add gaps but also shorten a shot or two, mostly basing it on the sync point notes ("Pants down", "Glide", "Back stroke"), and other obvious things (kicking up dust). That shot above the clouds with that joyous Childhood statement never fails to make me almost or properly cry.

12M4 You Are the Pan - The Pan theme returns and keeps growing and growing as everyone now finally happily accepts Peter.

 

 

 

13M1 Tink Grows Up - After a last round of Tinkerbell craziness, Believe appears in romantic and determined variations. The film shortens the middle a bit and cuts off the end.

13M2 To War!! + Insert - The Peter Pan theme turns into a preparatory battle march for both sides, then after a fanfare announces his arrival, also scores Peter himself stepping foot on the Jolly Roger. The Carpet Theme is inverted in usage, and the fanfare turns into a bit of a march as Peter steps towards Hook. The film joins these two cues closer than the LLL. It also uses the insert differently than the LLL, and since it matches the footage better that way, I went with the film edit here.

13M3 Crossed Swords + Insert - The fanfare gets another quick variation, then the Peter Pan theme finally plays in adventurous action versions, and the Banquet theme becomes the Lost Boys' battle fanfare. Williams takes many opportunities to play along with the fun action on screen. The film joins this cue to the previous one in a much more satisfying way than the OST/LLL so I followed that.

13M4/14M1 Form Rank - The mayhem continues with Lost Boys fanfare and Stick With Mes, then by the end the cue returns to the emotional focus - When You're Alone for Jack starting to doubt his place, and Childhood for Maggie crying out for help. The film added some more shots around the gumball shooter, I had to cut it back down there.

14M2 Daddy is Peter Pan - The swashbuckling mickey Mousing continues - especially in Hook and Rufio's duel, almost every strike is accented. When You're Alone and Childhood continue to score emotional moments with Maggie and the Lost Boys see a reprise of the Ballet theme as well as their Banquet Battle Fanfare.

14M3 The Death of Rufio - The battle takes a break and is seemingly over. Childhood joyously scores Peter giving up the fight and flying off. The Carpet Theme makes its final appearance, and a Stick With Me/Childhood combination scores Hook's final threat and Peter's turn. The film shortens something around Rufio's death but otherwise it all fits.

14M4 The Sword Fight - The Korngoldian swashbuckling completely takes over now. The mood turns tense and dark for the brief moment of Hook overpowering Peter, but Childhood helps boost the morale back up. The cue finishes on a noble string line as Pan gives hook back his sword in good form. The opening duel preparation is slightly shortened in the film.

14M5/15M1 Winning By a Hair - The fight kicks into a meaner gear with crazier tempos and wild orchestration, but Childhood (and a brief Tinkerbell) is the only theme present, reinforcing how Peter and his friends really have the moral and physical upper hand. Stick With Me does come back as Hook starts to bargain, but When You're Alone diffuses the tension again. Hook seems to accept his loss with a noble fanfare related to his themes, When You're Alone sees Peter off with his kids...

15M2 The End of Hook - But Hook has literally one last trick up his sleeve. The clock imitation returns with a Dies Irae first for tension, then kicks up a gear with Hook's theme, then finally a grand finale for Stick With Me. Brass stings and harp arpeggios score the shocked reactions, but a grand fanfare reassures us that everything turned out well. The Banquet theme (including bridge) scores the celebration, but it's short-lived: Peter has other priorities. Tinkerbell's theme scores the sprinkling of fairy dust, and a final Childhood scores Peter's directions. The film joins these two cues closer together too, also shortening the gap between the stings for Hook's dagger. I also had to remove a shot of Peter stepping back from the crocodile, and then stretch the dusty anticipation before Too Small moves in to inspect the remains. The film famously (and IMO very fittingly) also dials out the stabs and fanfares between Stick With Me and the Banquet bridge.

15M3 My Lost Boys - When You're Alone sees Jack and Maggie off, then Believe takes over the cue as a bittersweet farewell to the Lost Boys, reinforcing that Peter wil not forget them again. After the first statement plays out (for Maggie and Jack flying away), the film tracks 7M6/8M1 The Face of Pan over the rest of the cue, IMO very fittingly actually - now it plays when the Lost Boys start to accept Peter as the Pan, when Peter and Rufio also finally accept him as the Pan, and when Peter leaves and names Thud Butt the new Pan.

15M4 The Next Morning - Gorgeous choral writing with more understated sync points scores the kids' return, flute then playfully scores the shot over the statue of Peter playing the pipes. Tinkerbell gets more overt entrance and exit accents, and her theme also plays for a final time. The film joins these cues closer than the OST/LLL with more overlap, same as in the sketches as far as I could tell. Something was also removed around Smee's return.

15M5/16M1 Kensington Gardens - Mothers is the main theme of this cue, first playful for Peter's childish spirit, then gentle for Tootles' marbles, and finally grand and climactic for the finale. Childhood and When You're Alone also score Peter reconnecting with Moira/Wendy and the kids, respectively. The film also joins these two cues closer together with more overlap than the OST/LLL.

16M1 End Credit - The cue for the main credits is based on a happy arrangement of Childhood, later reworked as the back half of the concert piece Flight to Neverland.

7M5 The Lost Boys Ballet - Since there was no time to come up with, write and record a full credits suite, the first half of the scrolling credits reuses this cue with an extra timpani added to help cut it off early. The film cuts the cue even shorter and reprises 4M4 The Arrival of Tink.

Exit Music #2 - The second half of the scrolling credits was meant to be this gorgeous arrangement of Believe, but the final film opted to reuse the ending of 15M5/16M1 Kensington Gardens instead.

 

 

 

1M4 Yuppie Sounds - In the original script, we see much more of Peter's work and how much of an unethical corporate asshole he really is, for example planning a resort over wilderness in stages to trick environmentalists into accepting a smaller one that they'll then keep expanding. The final cut toned that down, probably to make him less unlikeable, the only real remainder being the phone conversation in London, otherwise we pretty much just see him as workaholic. There's much more material than could fit under this cue, so I tried to cut it down in a way that left at least some of that (the most direct setup to the London phone conversation about the rare species and mating areas), but focused mostly on the other stuff, imagining that Spielberg was already in the progress of making Peter less unlikeable.

 

 

 

4M3 Looney Wendy (original, first half) - This version played up the looneyness/uncomfortableness a lot more with an uneasy Childhood.

 

 

 

4M4 The Arrival of Tink (Alternate take segment) - The main difference here is that the celeste and strings are in a higher key and less muted, making the music a lot more bright and twinkly.

 

 

 

4M5/5M1 I Don't Believe in Fairies (Ending segment without extension) - This original version is shorter and less satisfying, must have been for a different edit with shorter effects shots.

 

 

 

Low Below - Pirate Sequence - Don't expect anything revolutionary, just felt like I had to represent the musical sequence that got standing ovations on set and in dailies but never got assembled into even a rough cut. I used the middle version (see next) as reference for the Smee/hook scene, used some stills for the Hookers, and subtitled the rest. The script describes some more elaborate actions but there was no real good space for them here.

 

 

 

5M5 Show Us Your Hook (Unrecorded middle version) - After the musical sequence was abandoned and the footage severely edited down to little more than the basics, JW adapted some segments from the prerecording in his sketches, keeping the Low Below and Down in the Deep Below melodies and the final Hook chant. See @ragoz350's excellent mockup and video about it.

 

 

 

5M5 Show us Your Hook (film edit) - Finally, Down in the Deep Below and the original Hook chant were also thrown out and replaced with Stick with Me and a different Show Us Your Hook chant. The version the film doesn't use the final Hook chants that are included on the LLL, which I've replicated here.

 

 

 

7M5 The Lost Boys Ballet (segment with overlay) - JW recorded a partial replacement, partial overlay focusing much more on the percussion that was already present in a section of the original version.

 

 

 

7M5 The Lost Boys Ballet (segment with only overlay, film edit) - The final film dials out the original take entirely and uses the overlay as a full replacement.

 

 

 

7M6/8M1 The Face of Pan (alternate performance with choir) - While most of the track (except for the opening before the flute comes in) is an alternate take, the most important difference is of course the choir for the final section, nicely foreshadowing You Are the Pan.

 

 

 

8M4 Believe Your Eyes (original placement) - According to Jay, this cue was originally spotted as 8M4, between 8M3 Smee Steals the Show and 8M4A Pick'Em Up, though by the time it was recorded it was probably already moved later as 10MA. I tried to replicate it nevertheless, cutting off the end of Hook's scene with his laugh, which was apparently a later pick-up take.

 

 

 

9M4 Cornucopia (original without insert) - The original take goes back into the Banquet theme much faster, with space for two full statements, then one more strangely cut down one before the foodfight starts.

 

 

 

13M2 To War!! (segment without insert) - This original version has a less refined feeling rendition of the fanfare for Peter's entrance and a Peter Pan theme over Hook's joy for seeing him, with a flute run at the end for Peter flipping down to the deck.

 

 

 

13M3 Crossed Swords (segment without insert) - In this version the first Lost Boys Battle Fanfare is much more understated, as opposed to the big celebratory insert version.

 

 

 

15M5/16M1 Kensington Gardens (segment) + Kensington Extension - This addition would have covered Tootles' entire flight until the screen goes black, scoring his acrobatics with a motif from of 9M4 Cornucopia Insert's buildup, and his final straight flight to Neverland with a held brass note. Theory: originally Tootles flew straight for the star and the credits went to black. Then they extended the shot with his acrobatics, Williams wrote the extension to cover this. Then they didn't like it well enough and went back to the original, shorter ending which now placed the final cue/credits cue midway through the shot, so they brought Spielberg's credit forward over the shot to justify the switch.

[JohnnyD 1,275]

Awesome!

[Jay 38,810]

Wow it's clear a lot of work went into this, can't wait to watch!

[ragoz350 476]

1 hour ago, Holko said:

I got the unfinished bluescreen wide shot up to a very roughly more finished level

JWFan will go down in history

[Incanus 5,785]

Fantastic work @Holko!!!

[ThePenitentMan1 978]

On 16/07/2024 at 6:50 AM, Holko said:

10MA Believe Your Eyes - This deleted scene is released really weirdly, the first portion with unfinished bluescreen and a long Peter closeup, and the rest starting with a roughly finished shorter wide shot overlapping the same lines as that closeup. I got the unfinished bluescreen wide shot up to a very roughly more finished level, then combined the two into something that made sense and fit with the cue - Childhood comes in as Peter lies down to reflect, Tink's arrival gets harp arpeggios, the mood briefly changes when we see Rufio, then we return to the finished film with the lights turning off with nice accents.

 

Isn't this cue 8m4?

[Holko 10,016]

3 minutes ago, ThePenitentMan1 said:

 

Isn't this cue 8m4?

Keep reading and watching!!

[ThePenitentMan1 978]

2 hours ago, Holko said:

Keep reading and watching!!

 

I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that the cue was actually rebalanced during the film's scoring.  Until now I'd only ever been aware of the 8m4 slate for the cue.

[ThePenitentMan1 978]

I also really like what you did with the subtitles!  Having them be the standard font in the real world and then turn into the fancy yellow Hook font for the fantasy elements.  It's a really nice touch!

[Holko 10,016]

2 minutes ago, ThePenitentMan1 said:

I also really like what you did with the subtitles!  Having them be the standard font in the real world and then turn into the fancy yellow Hook font for the fantasy elements.  It's a really nice touch!

Yaay! Doing that was really fun, I found an easy to use subtitle editor software. I even separated the US and London scenes, with the generic for the former and more classic serif for the latter (London is a magical place for children!). I thought about things like making Hook's lines red and Peter's green too, or having Peter' stay the standard until he becomes the Pan but that would be too much work and after a while maybe kinda distracting, and the best really fitting dark green and dark red would make it much less legible too.

[Jay 38,810]

3 hours ago, ThePenitentMan1 said:

 

I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that the cue was actually rebalanced during the film's scoring.  Until now I'd only ever been aware of the 8m4 slate for the cue.

 

The scene was filmed as the original ending to Night 1 in Neverland (note the bandage on Peter's hand), then moved to the end of Night 2 in post-production, with all of Peter and Tink's dialogue removed

[ThePenitentMan1 978]

I am aware that the cue was moved to after 10m1 When You're Alone in the film, yes.  I just didn't know that it was also rebalanced from 8m4 to 10mA in the process.

[Jay 38,810]

Ah!  Yes, that might have not been revealed anywhere before now I suppose

[The Great Gonzales 6,041]

5 hours ago, Jay said:

Ah!  Yes, that might have not been revealed anywhere before now I suppose

Pretty sure a cue list somewhere mentioned it.

 

EDIT: maybe I misunderstood.

[Jay 38,810]

It looks like I mentioned 10MA back in 2023 here.

[Goldfingers 132]

Here's how the scene was supposed to originally appear in the film.
 

I'm not convinced by Roberts' acting in that scene; the way she delivers her line seems a bit too hesitant. However, the scene appears in some trailers, and the fact that there is music for the scene suggests that it was very likely included in the extended version shown at the AMC Glen Lakes Theatre in Dallas on November 9, 1991.

 

[Pat_S 72]

On 16/07/2024 at 11:50 PM, Holko said:

13M2 To War!! + Insert - The Peter Pan theme turns into a preparatory battle march for both sides, then after a fanfare announces his arrival, also scores Peter himself stepping foot on the Jolly Roger. The Carpet Theme is inverted in usage, and the fanfare turns into a bit of a march as Peter steps towards Hook. The film joins these two cues closer than the LLL. It also uses the insert differently than the LLL, and since it matches the footage better that way, I went with the film edit here.

Amazing work here, this is great to go through. 

I just wanted to mention with this one, that the Insert ends solidly on a G major chord, and the bar that it is joined to on the LLL also begins on a G major chord, so we can be fairly certain that the LLL presentation is what was originally intended. But that means there's about 5 seconds of unused music - so what would that have been for? The large orchestral gesture with the WW runs (1:40 of LLL) was meant to accompany Peter's flip/landing, which is confirmed by the sketches (we have "Peter" just before, and lands after the run is completed). We also see 'Cut Sails' (I think) for 1:35 of the LLL. My suggestion is since it's Peter's Theme here, perhaps Peter had an additional line of dialogue while hovering on the top of the sails that was cut, which was followed by the runs accompanying his descent to the ship, then it matches with your edit after that? I don't have access to the script you've used, so perhaps there's some clarifying info in there. Sorry for the waffle, I hope this is useful info.

 

 

According to the sheets, the one you've labelled as 'without insert' uses the 'Alternate Insert'. The version without the insert hasn't released (afaik) - I think someone would have to mock it up. It uses the theme from 1:55 of the LLL presentation of the final cue. 

Anyway, I don't mean to be critical, this is fabulous stuff, thanks for putting all the time in to share it with us. :))

[Holko 10,016]

1 hour ago, Pat_S said:

Amazing work here, this is great to go through. 

I just wanted to mention with this one, that the Insert ends solidly on a G major chord, and the bar that it is joined to on the LLL also begins on a G major chord, so we can be fairly certain that the LLL presentation is what was originally intended. But that means there's about 5 seconds of unused music - so what would that have been for? The large orchestral gesture with the WW runs (1:40 of LLL) was meant to accompany Peter's flip/landing, which is confirmed by the sketches (we have "Peter" just before, and lands after the run is completed). We also see 'Cut Sails' (I think) for 1:35 of the LLL. My suggestion is since it's Peter's Theme here, perhaps Peter had an additional line of dialogue while hovering on the top of the sails that was cut, which was followed by the runs accompanying his descent to the ship, then it matches with your edit after that? I don't have access to the script you've used, so perhaps there's some clarifying info in there. Sorry for the waffle, I hope this is useful info.

 

 

According to the sheets, the one you've labelled as 'without insert' uses the 'Alternate Insert'. The version without the insert hasn't released (afaik) - I think someone would have to mock it up. It uses the theme from 1:55 of the LLL presentation of the final cue. 

Anyway, I don't mean to be critical, this is fabulous stuff, thanks for putting all the time in to share it with us. :))

Aaagh I was afraid someone would bring that up. We discussed that back and forth with Jay and didn't have a definitive answer.

 

So, what do we have officially released?

 

- OST version: fanfare, Peter Pan 1 with a wind twirl, Peter Pan 2

- LLL version: fanfare, quiet section with another fanfare, Peter Pan 1 with a wind twirl, Peter Pan 2

 

The OST version lines up to the final film pretty perfectly as you can see in my alternate video. So: fanfare for Peter arriving, Peter Pan 1 for Hook's lines, wind twirl for Peter jumping down, Peter Pan 2 for him on deck.

 

What if I ignore the LLL version and follow the film, which joins the insert back into before Peter Pan 2 instead of Peter Pan 1? That also lines up perfectly to the final cut as you can see in my "main program" video, fanfare for Peter arriving, quiet section for Hook's lines, another fanfare for Peter jumping down, Peter Pan 2 for him on deck.

 

So what if we assume the LLL is correct?

In this case there are two possibilities:

- Between the two versions, they added something more, which JW scored with the insert, then they removed it again, but JW's insert happened to fit perfectly over the footage right after it so they still used it, replacing Peter Pan 1. This is not very likely IMO.

- The original scene JW scored was different: arrives, X, jumps down, on deck. X was scored with Peter Pan 1. Then Hook's dialogue was added before X, which JW scored with the insert, ending up with the LLL version. Then they removed X, leaving the insert to be joined into Peter Pan 2. This is a bit more likely and Peter Pan 1 is a bit too loud for Hook's lines, but I can't imagine not having them in there.

 

My main problem with both is that it seems a little too coincidentally convenient that both Peter Pan 1 and the insert end with a bit that's perfectly scoring Peter jumping down, and that the times and tempos all still lined up.

 

So what if we assume the LLL is "incorrect"?

In this case the insert is simply supposed to replace Peter Pan 1. Jay brought up the idea that maybe in the rush of the late sessions, JW or someone else responsible just simply made a mistake and looked up the wrong Peter Pan statement's key when looking for the key the insert should end on. I don't think this is that insanely implausible when you look at some of the other late session music: the Cornucopia insert drops its tempo very quickly and sharply as opposed to the original segment which ramps down more gradually and naturally; The Sword Fight's start is impossible to satisfyingly join with The Death of Rufio's final note that it's supposed to overlap, it's a complete mismatch of note, instruments, volume, energy etc; Kensington Extension also joins in kind of awkwardly as a result of not rerecording the final notes with the intended new transition but just jumping off of the already done satisfying final held note. In this case the LLL of To War!! is just Mike deciding to join the insert in in the way that actually makes more sense musically, before Peter Pan 1 in the right key.

 

But in the end, we have no definitive proof either way. The script isn't helpful with this bit, and of course the sketch for the insert didn't leak, that with sync point marker text would be the ideal case.

10 hours ago, Goldfingers said:

Here's how the scene was supposed to originally appear in the film.
 

I'm not convinced by Roberts' acting in that scene; the way she delivers her line seems a bit too hesitant. However, the scene appears in some trailers, and the fact that there is music for the scene suggests that it was very likely included in the extended version shown at the AMC Glen Lakes Theatre in Dallas on November 9, 1991.

 

 

On 16/07/2024 at 3:50 PM, Holko said:

 

8M4 Believe Your Eyes (original placement) - According to Jay, this cue was originally spotted as 8M4, between 8M3 Smee Steals the Show and 8M4A Pick'Em Up, though by the time it was recorded it was probably already moved later as 10MA. I tried to replicate it nevertheless, cutting off the end of Hook's scene with his laugh, which was apparently a later pick-up take.

I also attempted a joining of the two released fragments, and only after it was done did I see that we both made some similar choices!

[Pat_S 72]

1 hour ago, Holko said:

- The original scene JW scored was different: arrives, X, jumps down, on deck. X was scored with Peter Pan 1. Then Hook's dialogue was added before X, which JW scored with the insert, ending up with the LLL version. Then they removed X, leaving the insert to be joined into Peter Pan 2. This is a bit more likely and Peter Pan 1 is a bit too loud for Hook's lines, but I can't imagine not having them in there.

Yes, this is what I think is most likely. Williams wrote 3 versions of the cue that seem to match this trajectory. Here's my suggestion. 

Williams writes the initial version. The scene is then extended slightly by adding Hook's dialogue, so JW rescores the scene with the insert, adding in the fanfare and extending the music by 5 seconds or so. 

Then the scene may have been shortened again by removing X (or that possibility was discussed), but JW liked the alternate fanfare he wrote in the first insert, so he created the 'Alternate Insert' that replaced those 3 bars in the initial version with the fanfare, but didn't extend the original cue at all (see your alternate video). (Note that while the recording sounds different, the Alternate Insert is exactly the same as the opening 3 bars of the first Insert). Spielberg ended up using the shorter version of the scene (without X) but decided that he liked the spritely part of the old insert to underscore Hook's dialogue, so he kept it in, but since that insert was longer than the film material, he had to introduce a cut to a later part of the cue to make it work. 

I've kinda just restated what you've suggested, but I think this makes sense. Let me know if I can explain that better.

 

1 hour ago, Holko said:

So what if we assume the LLL is "incorrect"?

In this case the insert is simply supposed to replace Peter Pan 1. Jay brought up the idea that maybe in the rush of the late sessions, JW or someone else responsible just simply made a mistake and looked up the wrong Peter Pan statement's key when looking for the key the insert should end on. I don't think this is that insanely implausible when you look at some of the other late session music: the Cornucopia insert drops its tempo very quickly and sharply as opposed to the original segment which ramps down more gradually and naturally; The Sword Fight's start is impossible to satisfyingly join with The Death of Rufio's final note that it's supposed to overlap, it's a complete mismatch of note, instruments, volume, energy etc; Kensington Extension also joins in kind of awkwardly as a result of not rerecording the final notes with the intended new transition but just jumping off of the already done satisfying final held note. In this case the LLL of To War!! is just Mike deciding to join the insert in in the way that actually makes more sense musically, before Peter Pan 1 in the right key.

I honestly think you're discrediting Williams a bit here. I'll use the Sword Fight to The Death of Rufio as an example. Yes, texturally the transition doesn't quite work, but the note choice is definitely thought out, the violins finishing on the tonic of the new key (the violins of the next cue play this note right after the downbeat, and it appears in the low strings right away). So I think it is incredibly unlikely that Williams would end the insert on a G major chord, to transition to a bar that begins on a C major chord - that seems incredibly careless, and not something that he would do. Of course, we can't know for sure what Williams intended without seeing the sketch or getting some other confirmation, maybe someone did look up the wrong key and no one noticed, but I feel very confident that the LLL is "correct". 

 

On another note, I somehow never connected that chime melodic sequence with the carpet! Very clever!

 

[Goldfingers 132]

53 minutes ago, Holko said:

I also attempted a joining of the two released fragments, and only after it was done did I see that we both made some similar choices!

Oh ok I missed it in the original post. But originally, the next scene was the lesson. Peter's training comes right after the lesson scene.

[ThePenitentMan1 978]

On 25/07/2024 at 4:10 AM, Holko said:

Aaagh I was afraid someone would bring that up. We discussed that back and forth with Jay and didn't have a definitive answer.

 

So, what do we have officially released?

 

- OST version: fanfare, Peter Pan 1 with a wind twirl, Peter Pan 2

- LLL version: fanfare, quiet section with another fanfare, Peter Pan 1 with a wind twirl, Peter Pan 2

 

The OST version lines up to the final film pretty perfectly as you can see in my alternate video. So: fanfare for Peter arriving, Peter Pan 1 for Hook's lines, wind twirl for Peter jumping down, Peter Pan 2 for him on deck.

 

What if I ignore the LLL version and follow the film, which joins the insert back into before Peter Pan 2 instead of Peter Pan 1? That also lines up perfectly to the final cut as you can see in my "main program" video, fanfare for Peter arriving, quiet section for Hook's lines, another fanfare for Peter jumping down, Peter Pan 2 for him on deck.

 

So what if we assume the LLL is correct?

In this case there are two possibilities:

- Between the two versions, they added something more, which JW scored with the insert, then they removed it again, but JW's insert happened to fit perfectly over the footage right after it so they still used it, replacing Peter Pan 1. This is not very likely IMO.

- The original scene JW scored was different: arrives, X, jumps down, on deck. X was scored with Peter Pan 1. Then Hook's dialogue was added before X, which JW scored with the insert, ending up with the LLL version. Then they removed X, leaving the insert to be joined into Peter Pan 2. This is a bit more likely and Peter Pan 1 is a bit too loud for Hook's lines, but I can't imagine not having them in there.

 

My main problem with both is that it seems a little too coincidentally convenient that both Peter Pan 1 and the insert end with a bit that's perfectly scoring Peter jumping down, and that the times and tempos all still lined up.

 

So what if we assume the LLL is "incorrect"?

In this case the insert is simply supposed to replace Peter Pan 1. Jay brought up the idea that maybe in the rush of the late sessions, JW or someone else responsible just simply made a mistake and looked up the wrong Peter Pan statement's key when looking for the key the insert should end on. I don't think this is that insanely implausible when you look at some of the other late session music: the Cornucopia insert drops its tempo very quickly and sharply as opposed to the original segment which ramps down more gradually and naturally; The Sword Fight's start is impossible to satisfyingly join with The Death of Rufio's final note that it's supposed to overlap, it's a complete mismatch of note, instruments, volume, energy etc; Kensington Extension also joins in kind of awkwardly as a result of not rerecording the final notes with the intended new transition but just jumping off of the already done satisfying final held note. In this case the LLL of To War!! is just Mike deciding to join the insert in in the way that actually makes more sense musically, before Peter Pan 1 in the right key.

 

But in the end, we have no definitive proof either way. The script isn't helpful with this bit, and of course the sketch for the insert didn't leak, that with sync point marker text would be the ideal case.

 

Reading through all of this, and going on the assumption that it's the LLL timing that's incorrect, it seems to me the ideal edit for this insert to properly preserve both the musicality of the LLL edit and the original timing of the cue would probably be something like this:

 

 

[Holko 10,016]

15 minutes ago, ThePenitentMan1 said:

 

Reading through all of this, and going on the assumption that it's the LLL timing that's incorrect, it seems to me the ideal edit for this insert to properly preserve both the musicality of the LLL edit and the original timing of the cue would probably be something like this:

 

 

Huh, that's pretty damn good!

[Pat_S 72]

51 minutes ago, ThePenitentMan1 said:

 

Reading through all of this, and going on the assumption that it's the LLL timing that's incorrect, it seems to me the ideal edit for this insert to properly preserve both the musicality of the LLL edit and the original timing of the cue would probably be something like this:

 

 

Does that actually work with the film? 

[ThePenitentMan1 978]

4 minutes ago, Pat_S said:

Does that actually work with the film? 

 

This is timed exactly to the original version of the cue (My exported cue assembly of To War/Crossed Swords has both versions at exactly the same length, with only miliseconds of difference).  Holko's videos demonstrate that the original cue lines up with the film footage exactly.

 

Ergo, if this edit matches the original cue's timing, it'll match the final film footage as well.

 

In context, it'd probably sound exactly like Holko's main video with the insert applied, except the insert would segue into Peter Pan 1 before the crossfade to Peter Pan 2 to preserve the timing.

[Pat_S 72]

8 minutes ago, ThePenitentMan1 said:

 

This is timed exactly to the original version of the cue (My exported cue assembly of To War/Crossed Swords has both versions at exactly the same length, with only miliseconds of difference).  Holko's videos demonstrate that the original cue lines up with the film footage exactly.

 

Ergo, if this edit matches the original cue's timing, it'll match the final film footage as well.

 

In context, it'd probably sound exactly like Holko's main video with the insert applied, except the insert would segue into Peter Pan 1 before the crossfade to Peter Pan 2 to preserve the timing.

Nice work! 

[ThePenitentMan1 978]

Thanks!

 

Here's a quick comparison of my edit with the original cue:

 

 

 

[Incanus 5,785]

On 16/07/2024 at 4:50 PM, Holko said:

 

4M1 Hook is Back - This cue bends the Witches of Eastwick temp track into a similarly highly dramatic and reactive piece.

I have always thought the temp track for Hook Is Back was from Korngold's The Seahawk. There is a piece toward the end of the score (Escape From the Galley or The Slave Liberate Themselves/Murder) which has a very similar rhythmic figure running through it and while it is not exactly the right mood as it is a bit lighter suspense, it seems to fit the scene pretty well.

 

 

 

 

[Holko 10,016]

Just now, Incanus said:

I have always thought the temp track for Hook Is Back was from Korngold's The Seahawk. There is a piece toward the end of the score (Escape From the Galley or The Slave Liberate Themselves/Murder) which has a very similar rhythmic figure running through it and while it is not exactly the right mood as it is a bit lighter suspense, it seems to fit the scene pretty well.

Huh, yeah that's pretty close. Watching the trailer (not the teaser) definitely put WoE in my head before doing this.

[Holko 10,016]

I watched the Sword Fight/End of Hook portion again because they're awesome cues, and I was surprised to see how easily I left the weird film sync in for 15M2. With the relatively limited but useful enough help of the sketch markers, I now reedited it completely.