The Two Towers EXTENDED EDITION Discussion

[nja 0]

Had a source that got me one a couple of days early- picked up my copy up this afternoon and watched it tonight.

Truly incredible is about the only thing I can say. The extended edition is like a different movie. I had no idea how much better TTT could be. Wow!

Enough gushing- to get to some details. Not only are there a number of added scenes that help flesh out the storyline, there is also a great deal of material that adds to the enjoyability factor- some really humorous lines and contextual scenes not in the original release.

Some highly significant additions being:

-a flashback to conversations between Boromir and Faramir explaining the tensions in their relationship to their Father

-a good deal of material added in relation to the Ents, Merry, and Pippin including more of the destruction of Isengard

-extensions of the Gollum scenes adding even more depth to his character

-perhaps most significant, a wonderful extended version of the pivotal ?turning of the tide? scene (Gandalf?s return)- making it even more dramatic than the original (if you can believe that?s possible.)

-a lot of other extensions that just take away that "scrunched" feeling the first release had.

Have yet to make it to the special features on Disks 3 and 4- I'll be tied from now up until late tomorrow evening, but will try to post again then.

In the mean time- I can?t sputter enough about how much more complete the film feels in the extended version. A must-have for any half-way serious LOTR fan.

[Ren 75]

Well I'll be watching it tonight. after I have steak/potatoes/salad yum yum

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

It's not coming out here until Thurday, and the earliest time I'll be able to see it will be Friday afternoon. AAAARGH!

- Marc, will allow no interruptions for four hours next Friday.

[diskobolus 3]

have exams between now and thanksgiving, so thats the earliest for me. won't even be buying it until then, uncharacteristically.

[Morn 8]

The fucking xvid with the ac3 is down!

[nja 0]

Curious to see what Ren Morn think (and whether or not I'm the only weirdo who doesn't think he'll ever be able to watch the original version again).

Grief, IMO this movie changed from a good film that made me look forward to ROTK to something that feels like it's own story, a well-rounded segment of LOTR.

[King Mark 3,631]

i might get The FotR Extended edition box set.Not that I really want the movie,but the bookholders it comes with are pretty neat

K.M.

[Lurker 5]

Come for the book ends. Stay for the movie!

Neil

[Rogue_Leader 2]

I am gonna have to buy this tommorow. Errr I mean today. Its like 3 AM here so later on in the day is like tommorow for me!

[Ren 75]

You go KM!

[Marian Schedenig 8,200]

I had no idea how much better TTT could be. Wow!

I'd expected even more improvements from the TTT:EE than the FOTR:EE had, and I wasn't disappointed. Mostly excellent additions.

Marian - who got it on Monday, but only found the time to watch it today.

[Wojo 2,453]

I've only made time to watch the first half so far, and so far it is good, much much better than the original theatrical cut, which I'll never watch again.

But one that does piss me off is the ent draught sequence. That's a key scene to explain how Merry and Pippin get bigger than normal hobbits by story's end, but in the book, Treebeard leads them to bed and ent draught, which serves as their dietic needs, and explains to them what it is, or at least the narrator does. Now, it seems half-assed, like it's an accident that they drink the draught, with competition over who drinks it and who gets bigger, and then there's a ridiculous scene with tree roots.

Grr. "The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers," loosely based upon the book "The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers" by JRR Tolkien. Emphasis on loosely. But I guess PJ's commentary and Discs 3 & 4 explain why he felt it necessary to change so much of the book. *shrug*

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I've only made time to watch the first half so far, and so far it is good, much much better than the original theatrical cut, which I'll never watch again.

Same here, i have not watched the cinema version of FOTR either since i got the FOTR exrended edition.

But one that does piss me off is the ent draught sequence.  That's a key scene to explain how Merry and Pippin get bigger than normal hobbits by story's end, but in the book, Treebeard leads them to bed and ent draught, which serves as their dietic needs, and explains to them what it is, or at least the narrator does.  Now, it seems half-assed, like it's an accident that they drink the draught, with competition over who drinks it and who gets bigger,

I liked it a lot, it showed a bit of that Hobbit sense of playfullness that the cinema version dearly lacked.

and then there's a ridiculous scene with tree roots.

That scene was actually in the book Fellowship Of The Ring, but then they were rescued to Tom Bombadil instead of Treebeard.

Grr.  "The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers," loosely based upon the book "The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers" by JRR Tolkien.  Emphasis on loosely.  But I guess PJ's commentary and Discs 3 & 4 explain why he felt it necessary to change so much of the book. *shrug*

I agree with most of the changes, an exact page by page filming would lead to a ver bad film indeed.

The only chance that never reallky worked for me was the part were Aragorn falls over the cliff, and is found by some horse of who he knows his name is Brego.

The extended edition now explains how he knows this horse and the scene makes just a little more sense (though i'm not sure if it is really needed in the film.)

Stefancos- who loved the whole flashback with Boromir, Faramir and Denetor, and loved the Gondor theme.

[nja 0]

and then there's a ridiculous scene with tree roots.

That scene was actually in the book Fellowship Of The Ring, but then they were rescued to Tom Bombadil instead of Treebeard.

The omission of Tom Bombabil was one of the things I was most happy to see happen in the films. He just always seemed to be such a loose end. I liked the way the scene was sequenced is in TTT. It seemed to nicely preclude the Orcs being lost in the forest after Helm's Deep.

Even some of the extended scenes that were just a shot or two longer, seemed to gain more of a sense of cinematic timing instead of feeling kind of rushed like they did before.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I agree about Tom, he was a very interesting character, and worked in the book, in an odd kinda way, but i cannot see how he would have worked in the film, or have a clue what actor could play him, and not make him look silly.

I just watched the extended film a second time, and it's just great.

The Huorns are priceless, and i love the pleasant banter between Merry and Pippin when they find Saruman's store room.

The new music is perfectly intergrated with the rest of the score, even better then the extended FOTR.

And i'm sure Marian must be happy with the dialogue mentioning Minas Morgul, though it was still nowere to be found on the map.

Bring on ROTK, now please!!!

Stefancos- wondering when the CD will be released.

[Marian Schedenig 8,200]

There's only one actor who could play Bombadil - Robin Williams.

The Merry & Pippin stuff was mostly very nice, though I found it occasionally got a bit too goofy. I did like indeed the Minas Morgul reference, though after seeing the ROTK previews, I wasn't worried about it being omitted anymore.

As for the map, originally I loved that they put it in the film, but by now the omission of Minas Morgul on it worries me less than the fact that Gondor's officers have to show each other the location of Orthanc and Barad Dur on a map. :roll:

Marian - who loved Theodred's funeral.

[QMM 4]

Robin Williams or Nathan Lane.

Best scene that was added in the Ext. Edition is the Boromir/Faramir scenes which flesh out Faramir more.

[Rogue_Leader 2]

I am gonna order this off Deep Discount DVD. Everywhere else is too damn expensive.

[EvanED 1]

I have to go contrary to what most other people seem to be saying. Don't get me wrong, I love the movie and the improvements, but I thought the difference was more profound in Fellowship.

The biggest new scene is I think the Boromir/Faramir scene, though even that was rather unfaithful to the book. It set up a *lot* of the motivation for Faramir to bring the ring to Minis Tirith. It eases a lot of the discrepancy between the book and movie regarding Faramir too. Before you see him as just being power hungry almost; it seems like he wants the ring. Whereas now you see he is motivated out of hope that his father will accept him.

Very Strong Disclaimer: I had not read the book before seeing Fellowship, and the EE tied up sooo many things I didn't know about. Since then I have read them (and reccomend them to anyone who hasn't with all my heart), so had the background of the book to know what was going on.

[Rogue_Leader 2]

All I know is that battle scene at the end kicks major booty.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I was a bit disappointed that we did not get to see the Orcs brutally stabbed to pieces by the Huorns, though.

The music documentary on disc 4 is amazing!

- Marc

[Marian Schedenig 8,200]

I was a bit disappointed that we did not get to see the Orcs brutally stabbed to pieces by the Huorns, though.

Oh, I never even thought about that, and I wouldn't have liked it if they'd done it that way. Nobody who goes in there comes out again, that's why it's described only from outside in the books. And that's what I wanted to see in the movie.

Marian -

Species (Christopher Young)

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Yeah, but I remember reading about some gory shots, and I really wanted to see that. Oh well. Just a teenyweeny nitpick.

Bring on RotK!

- Marc

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

I've only made time to watch the first half so far, and so far it is good, much much better than the original theatrical cut, which I'll never watch again.

Same here, i have not watched the cinema version of FOTR either since i got the FOTR exrended edition.

And you said you hadn't gone Lucas?

Man, put the originals close to your heart!

Grr.  "The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers," loosely based upon the book "The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers" by JRR Tolkien.  Emphasis on loosely.  But I guess PJ's commentary and Discs 3 & 4 explain why he felt it necessary to change so much of the book. *shrug*

I agree with most of the changes, an exact page by page filming would lead to a ver bad film indeed.

Tolkien's work not fitting 'as is'? I cant believe you said that...

[Justin 2]

These supposed Expanded versions are the originals, in fact. The movies that appeared in the theater are mearly the "watered down" version for people who can barely sit through a movie that's over 2 hours.

Justin -Who thinks Luke should know this.

[Ren 75]

I have yet to finish TTT nor have i gotten to a store to buy ROTK.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

These supposed Expanded versions are the originals, in fact. The movies that appeared in the theater are mearly the "watered down" version for people who can barely sit through a movie that's over 2 hours.

Justin -Who thinks Luke should know this.

Every movie has to pass that step. The only difference is that We/they already know there will be an Expanded edition (or director's cut like it is usually called) so people doesnt care for the theathrical version anymore

And no, these are not the originals. Wait some years, and you'll have the complete work, i'm sure of it.

[Rogue_Leader 2]

OK I finally got this damn thing. Picked it up last night fairly cheap for just 25 bucks.

[Wojo 2,453]

and then there's a ridiculous scene with tree roots.

Yea, I realize now what this means. The day after I wrote that, I watched the second half of the movie, and then the four featurettes on the third disc, so now I realize that the roots entrapping the hobbits is an homage to the Old Forest outside of the Shire, where Bombadil saves them, since otherwise that part was skipped in the film. And for good reason, too. It'd be redundant from a film standpoint to have "scary" walking trees in two places, in both the Old Forest and in Fangorn Forest. It works in the book, since Tolkien was making it up as he went (hence the huge amount of storytime spent getting from the Shire to the crossing on the Bruinen). Plus, it's been at least two or three years since I last (and first) read The Fellowship of the Ring, so I had forgotten about that tree-root entrapping part. Tom Bombadil could've been good to have in the movie, even to just briefly see dancing away and singing, but even in the book, at the Council of Elrond, it's decided that he really has no major part to play since they rule out that they can't give Bombadil the Ring for safekeeping or destruction, and thus he doesn't need to be in the film. All they needed to do was have Merry and Pippin discuss the trees in the Old Forest and have Treebeard save them from such a mischevious set of treeroots, and voila, no need to explain Bombadil.

Now, the Barrowdowns and Barrowights, that would've been neater to have in the film, since it explains how the hobbits get their swords, rather than just having Aragorn hand them swords.

However, after I watched the featurettes and watched the Extended Edition, I've realized that this film, The Two Towers, is really a great film, even though it strays from the book. It had to. They needed to make Faramir into a jerk at first for film suspense, and putting Shelob into the next movie now makes sense. I might go watch it again now, just for kicks.

And Luke, as for "keeping the originals close to my heart," there is a huge difference between the Star Wars and The Lord of the Rings films as to how their original and Extended/Special Editions work. With The Lord of the Rings, the Extended Editions simply bring more of the moments from the books into the films, fleshing out characters better and explaining things to come in later movies. For example, in the theatrical version of TTT, it really wasn't important to see all the talk about Aragorn being a Dunedain and an heir to the kings of Numeanor, since that is relevant to the next story more than the current one. And they certainly don't undermine or change any key story element, they simply elaborate upon them

The Extended Editions of TLOTR set that film up for the next one, whereas the Special Editions of the Star Wars films DO actually change certain sequences of the 20+ year old versions. Some changes are tolerable, such as the improved special effects or extended sequences, like an enlarged Bespin skyline and window views, the souped-up visuals in the Battle of Yavin, and the appearance of Jabba the Hutt in Docking Bay 94, which helps set up Han Solo's trilogy-sweeping story arc of the trouble he's in with Jabba's bounty hunters. But other story-changing elements, like making Greedo shoot first (Hey, I LIKE my Han being a bloodthirsty killer, that's a cool trait, it makes you fear for Luke's life when he "starts getting cocky" on the Falcon), or turning the Sarlacc from a lethargic hole in the ground to an active beaked and tentacled animal. Gimme a break.

I'll take Extended Extended Editions of The Lord of the Rings that are 10 hours each, and I'd like the original non-CGI Star Wars movies. 'Nuff said.

[Wojo 2,453]

Tolkien's work not fitting 'as is'? I cant believe you said that...

It isn't fitting "as is." First of all, Tolkien never wrote the book with a film version in mind. He wrote it for himself and his son. People said they wanted a sequel to "The Hobbit," so he went all-out with fleshing a story about Middle-Earth, but this story would never translate 100% into a movie. Things would have to be cut out, or rearranged, or severly edited to fit today's movie-going audience's tastes.

Hence, we get movies that are nearly devoid of all the poems and songs that can be found in the books, which, even though they are quite enjoyable in and of themselves, and explain a lot about the interesting histories and cultures of Middle-Earth, only slow down the action in the books, and as far as the films are concerned, would slow them down totally. We get movies that do not follow three characters for 150 pages, and then jump backwards a week or so and follow another three characters for another week or so, but rather jump back and forth as best as is interpretable as to when events happen at the same time. Thus, TTT ends with Helm's Deep and not Shelob's Lair. And finally, we get movies that expand upon the romance between Arwen and Aragorn far more than is found in the books, where Arwen is nearly missable if you blink. This is because their romance was very dear to Tolkien himself, who always thought of himself as Beren the man, and his childhood sweetheart wife as Luthien, the elf-maiden who gave up immortality to be with the man she loves. Que Amore!

The books are the master canon on Tolkien's work. 100% Tolkien purists, don't watch the movies. Read the books, complain, and see the books in your imagination. All other fans, read the books but still enjoy the films. I'm sure in another 50 years or so, there'll be another film version, but until then, these films are so incredibly good, I'm 100% satisfied.

[Marian Schedenig 8,200]

It'd be redundant from a film standpoint to have "scary" walking trees in two places, in both the Old Forest and in Fangorn Forest.

Old Man Willow didn't walk.

Marian - who liked the roots scene, but found Bombadil's lines unfitting for Mr. Fangorn.

[NeejaHalycon 0]

Is it just me, or did Peter Jackson seem much more upbeat in his commentary than he did on the FOTR? I was thinking that he was probably stressed-out about The Two Towers release, and beginning to get rushed on finishing up. His more easygoing attitude on TTT commentary, though, makes me think that ROTK has gone relatively easily, which in-turn, makes me even more excited about it.

[Wojo 2,453]

I'm sure any tree can walk if it wants to. Old Man Willow just didn't want to, and our trees haven't walked for Ages, since I'm sure they never did find the Entwives.......another nice touch in the Extended Edition, I might add.

~~

This comment isn't really about The Two Towers specifically, but I didn't see the need to launch a new topic entirely about it. Because it's been a while since I've read The Lord of the Rings, I do not remember when this discussion took place, but I do know it involves Gandalf and either Merry or Pippin. One of the hobbits makes a comment about Frodo being "the lord of the rings" as praising Frodo, and Gandalf sternly chastises him for this, saying that there is only one lord of the rings, and he's Sauron, and it's not a title worthy of praise. Something to that effect. I'm pretty sure Frodo's not there at the time, so it could be once Gandalf is reunited with one of the hobbits (pretty sure it's Pippin) and takes him to Isengard to look at the palantir and then they go to Minas Tirith; that conversation could be either in TTT or ROTK book, and thus hasn't yet made it onscreen. I really hope that this moment is put in the film, since it is one my favorite moments from the book that stands out in my head. Plus, it's probably the only point where the phrase "lord of the ring" is uttered in the book, and since PJ has so far insisted upon saying not only the names of each movie somewhere in the film (first by Elrond, then by Saruman), but also by scattering the titles of chapters throughout (it's one thing for Shore to do it, somewhat different when PJ does it...i'm sure "shortcut to what?...mushrooms!" elicits groans in some, glee in others....much like "you're all astronauts, on some kind of star trek" in First Contact does).

Plus, that bit about Pip looking into the palantir better be in ROTK the film, or the whole thing's gonna unravel. Sauron needs to think the precious is at Isengard, or else he's gonna seem like one dumb cookie. Oh my, I hope I didn't spoil anything, I'm just voicing my concerns for the film. To be on the safe side, it's in white.

Personally, I think it would've made better sense to encase the Ring in a block of cement or some other unsoluble rock found in Middle Earth, and just row a boat out halfway between the western shores of Middle Earth and Aman, and just throw it overboard. I mean, Sauron can't just drain the whole damn sea, can he? But then again, that doesn't make for a very interesting story, does it? LOL

[Romão 2,274]

Saw TTT last night again. I read the book last week. Most of changes are just unecessary. I really have a lot of issues wwith this movie. It is wonderfully directed and the production design is spot on...but it doesn't feel like the book. You get the idea in the movie that it is all a big build up to the battle in the end. And cutting Saruman from ROTK...if PJ had cut the awful scenes with Arwen and Aragorn Dying or the Warg Attack, Saruman would have fitted in TTT. Well, that's just me. I watch TTT and it just doesn't feel like TTT.

[Romão 2,274]

And the character of Faramir was completly changed...totally upside down.

[Marian Schedenig 8,200]

I still say that Arwen is one of the most important characters to the book. Not without reason did Tolkien dedicate an entire appendix to her, and liken her to Luthien. I'm not very happy with the Aragorn-dies-(not) business, but the flashback and Arwen/Elrond conversation are good and important, IMHO.

As for Faramir, I didn't like the changes, but after seeing the documentary, I disliked them less (it's true, with Shelob in ROTK, there's hardly any obstacles for Frodo, you do need something to make his storyline a bit more tense, plus it's a good opportunity to introduce Osgiliath and Faramir). But after watching the EE, I actually really like his character in the movies. The changes to his character brings out the whole Denethor/Boromir/Faramir story really well, and in the end, he does act like in the books, just not right away.

I'm sure any tree can walk if it wants to.  Old Man Willow just didn't want to,

Ok, I didn't want to start nitpicking, but I can't resist now. I don't think Tolkien ever writes about walking trees. Ents walk, and Huorns walk, but not trees. Of course, Old Man Willow might be a Huorn...

and our trees haven't walked for Ages, since I'm sure they never did find the Entwives.......another nice touch in the Extended Edition, I might add.

Yes, mentioning the Entwives was great. BTW, I've read some speculations that the "walking trees" some of the Hobbits talk about on the first few pages of A Long Expected Party could be the Entwives.

Personally, I think it would've made better sense to encase the Ring in a block of cement or some other unsoluble rock found in Middle Earth, and just row a boat out halfway between the western shores of Middle Earth and Aman, and just throw it overboard.  I mean, Sauron can't just drain the whole damn sea, can he?  But then again, that doesn't make for a very interesting story, does it?   LOL

But they discuss that at the Council of Elrond. It wouldn't solve the problem in the long run. The Ring managed to be found in Anduin, sooner or later it'd manage to be found even if you threw it in the sea.

And while we're on this topic, it has often been argued that they could have just let the Eagles carry the Ring to Mordor. Arguments against this are primarily that 1) the Nazgul would notice them and 2) the book would be too short. But my opinion is that Tolkien might well have thought about that. The Eagles just wouldn't do this, even if you ignore the possibility that they might as well be corrupted by the Ring. But the important point is, the Eagles are some kind of divine intervention, and the Valar decided not to interfere with the affairs in Middle-earth, other than by sending the Istari.

Marian -

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

This comment isn't really about The Two Towers specifically, but I didn't see the need to launch a new topic entirely about it.  Because it's been a while since I've read The Lord of the Rings, I do not remember when this discussion took place, but I do know it involves Gandalf and either Merry or Pippin.  One of the hobbits makes a comment about Frodo being "the lord of the rings" as praising Frodo, and Gandalf sternly chastises him for this, saying that there is only one lord of the rings, and he's Sauron, and it's not a title worthy of praise.  Something to that effect.  I'm pretty sure Frodo's not there at the time, so it could be once Gandalf is reunited with one of the hobbits (pretty sure it's Pippin) and takes him to Isengard to look at the palantir and then they go to Minas Tirith; that conversation could be either in TTT or ROTK book, and thus hasn't yet made it onscreen.  I really hope that this moment is put in the film, since it is one my favorite moments from the book that stands out in my head.  Plus, it's probably the only point where the phrase "lord of the ring" is uttered in the book, and since PJ has so far insisted upon saying not only the names of each movie somewhere in the film (first by Elrond, then by Saruman), but also by scattering the titles of chapters throughout (it's one thing for Shore to do it, somewhat different when PJ does it...i'm sure "shortcut to what?...mushrooms!" elicits groans in some, glee in others....much like "you're all astronauts, on some kind of star trek" in First Contact does).

It's from FotR actually, at the beginning of Book II, when Frodo has recovered from his wounds he received at Weathertop:

"Hurray!" cried Pippin, springing up. "Here is our noble cousin. Make way for Frodo, Lord of the Ring!"

"Hush!" said Gandalf from the shadows at the back of the porch. "Evil things do not come into this valley; but all the same we should not name them. The Lord of the Ring is not Frodo, but the master of the Dark Tower in Mordor, whose power is again stretching out over the world! We are sitting in a fortress. Outside it is getting dark."

Plus, that bit about Pip looking into the palantir better be in ROTK the film, or the whole thing's gonna unravel.  Sauron needs to think the precious is at Isengard, or else he's gonna seem like one dumb cookie. Oh my, I hope I didn't spoil anything, I'm just voicing my concerns for the film.  

It will be. There has already been a picture of Pippin holding it on TheOneRing.net.

- Marc

[NeejaHalycon 0]

Is anyone else somewhat bothered when Legolas sees the wargs come over the hill, and part of "The Bridge of Khazad Dum" plays? It's only a couple seconds, but it seems completely out of place. It reminds me of the first episodes of Stargate SG-1, when about half of their music was cannibalized from the movie score, or the Battle of Geonosis all being from Naboo.

[Uni 306]

I've long owed Stefan my thoughts on the second film; I've just never gotten around to putting them all down. Maybe that's for the best, 'cause I picked up the EE yesterday (just like you, Rogue Leader--only 25 tamales! ). The comments in this thread have intruiged me, and I want to give the film a chance to offer its full testimony, with every scene in place as it was intended, before rendering final judgement. Gimme a couple of days, and I'll see if I can't put something together for you, Steef....

- Uni

[Romão 2,274]

Maybe the EE will make me see TTT through a new light.

It's a good film notheless, juts a lousy adaptation.

Romão, who thinks Viggo and Elijah are not very good actors. The rest of the cast si quite good.

[Rogue_Leader 2]

I hope the ROTK EE doesn't take nearly a year to get released like the other two did.

[ChrisAfonso 186]

This comment isn't really about The Two Towers specifically' date=' but I didn't see the need to launch a new topic entirely about it. Because it's been a while since I've read The Lord of the Rings, I do not remember when this discussion took place, but I do know it involves Gandalf and either Merry or Pippin. One of the hobbits makes a comment about Frodo being "the lord of the rings" as praising Frodo, and Gandalf sternly chastises him for this, saying that there is only one lord of the rings, and he's Sauron, and it's not a title worthy of praise. Something to that effect. I'm pretty sure Frodo's not there at the time, so it could be once Gandalf is reunited with one of the hobbits (pretty sure it's Pippin) and takes him to Isengard to look at the palantir and then they go to Minas Tirith

If you watch FotR closely, you will find that the term is actually used there During the Scene with Gandalf and Saruman on top of Orthanc, just before Gandalf jumps onto Gwaihir: "There is only one Lord of the Rings... and he does not share power!"

[ChrisAfonso 186]

Is anyone else somewhat bothered when Legolas sees the wargs come over the hill, and part of "The Bridge of Khazad Dum" plays?  It's only a couple seconds, but it seems completely out of place.  It reminds me of the first episodes of Stargate SG-1, when about half of their music was cannibalized from the movie score, or the Battle of Geonosis all being from Naboo.

I noticed that too, but it didn't disturb me much, for it's very short and doesn't fit so very badly in there as the TPM/AOTC business. What I find sad about this is that the first section of "Helm's Deep" on the OST is such a strong piece, especially with the choral build-up (of which only the very end is heard in the film) singing a verse of the song about Helm Hammerhand (the first verse of which Théoden recites before the Helm's Deep battle).

Oh, just on a side note, the snippet isn't taken from "Bridge of Khazad-Dum" but from "Foundations of Stone" fromt he TTT album. So at least it's from the right movie

[EvanED 1]

"And the character of Faramir was completly changed...totally upside down."

I disagree with respect to the Expanded Edition. This would actually be an interesting topic for someone to do a literary criticism on. Anyway, with the addition of the scene in Osgiliath when Denethor sends Boromir to Rivendell over Faramir, the change makes complete sense. In the original edition, it seems he's taking the Ring to Minis Tirith on a power trip. Now we see it was because he wanted respect in the eyes of his father. I think it will be hard to portray the lack of respect Denethor has for Faramir in RotK without a lot of background scenes that don't otherwise really belong, so the change to TTT is very welcome to me.

"I'm not very happy with the Aragorn-dies-(not) business"

Quite frankly, I think that sucks. It's a pretty big change, and it adds scenes to the movie without any real benefit. I really want to hear the commentary for that scene to see if Jackson gives his rationale for that change. It is easily the most egregious modification so far.

"But they discuss that at the Council of Elrond. It wouldn't solve the problem in the long run. The Ring managed to be found in Anduin, sooner or later it'd manage to be found even if you threw it in the sea."

They could have at least waited until some time when Mordor wasn't throwing an army a hundred thousand strong at the rest of Middle Earth...

"Plus, that bit about Pip looking into the palantir better be in ROTK the film, or the whole thing's gonna unravel. Sauron needs to think the precious is at Isengard, or else he's gonna seem like one dumb cookie. Oh my, I hope I didn't spoil anything, I'm just voicing my concerns for the film."

"It will be. There has already been a picture of Pippin holding it on TheOneRing.net."

That's good. But it makes me very curious to find out how the Fellowship is going to get ahold of said Palantir without any Sarumon scenes. I suppose they could happen to find it in Isengard without seeing Saurmon himself, but I'm both curious and apprehensive about this.

"Is anyone else somewhat bothered when Legolas sees the wargs come over the hill, and part of "The Bridge of Khazad Dum" plays? It's only a couple seconds, but it seems completely out of place. It reminds me of the first episodes of Stargate SG-1, when about half of their music was cannibalized from the movie score, or the Battle of Geonosis all being from Naboo."

I didn't notice, so nope. ;-)

"Romão, who thinks Viggo and Elijah are not very good actors. The rest of the cast si quite good."

I think Viggo does a very good job.

"I hope the ROTK EE doesn't take nearly a year to get released like the other two did."

I wouldn't be surprised if it was a bit less given that they don't have to put together a new film at the same time. We'll see. I can't wait to see this though.

[nja 0]

In my holiday off, I had a chance to watch the EE all the way through again with some friends.

One thing that really stood out to me that really has nothing to do with integrity to Tolkien etc. was how much better the ending of the film is than in the theatrical version.

The two added scenes of Gimli and Legolas comparing tallies and Merry and Pippin finding Sarumen's food cellar are just the comic relief needed after all the tension of Helm's deep and the Nazgul's at Osgiliath- perfectly placed in the denoument of the film.

Directly following, you have the resolution of Faramir's struggles as Sam tells him he has shown his true quality.

Finally, Gandalf's prophetic line about the beginning of the battle for Middle Earth, and Gollum's decision to lead the hobbits to the doom that Faramir warned them about- the proverbial smell of danger that leaves us anticipating ROTK.

Of course, a number of added scenes throughout the film are what establish the context for the Faramir/Denethor struggle etc., but IMO, the differences in the ending are the biggest improvement to the film as a whole.

[Morlock 11]

Well, I havben't gotten the EE yet, but, it was mentioned- so I must second the opinion that ELIJAH WOOD IS ONE OF THE WORST ACTORS IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND! That is really my main reason for not going gaga over the movies. I feel like killing him, or myself, whenever he uses that terrible voice or whenever he shows his ugly little face with the terribly fake wig. [/mini-rant]

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I think the Sons of the Steward sequence is absolutely brilliant. It just deepens all of the characters involved. I love this scene! It's great to see how Boromir actually doesn't want the Ring to come to Gondor, because he knows its power, which makes his seduction in FotR all the more tragic. The mad look in Denethor's eyes when he urges Boromir to bring back the Ring is great forshadowing of things to come. Those of us who have read the book will know of course that something's going on with Denethor that has troubled his vision (I'll leave it at that so as to not spoil the movie too much for people who haven't read the book). The whole relationship between the two brothers is established in this scene, and it's a great link to all three films. Great stuff.

- Marc, thinks John Rhys-Davies is mighty cool in this one.

"He was twitching, because he's got my axe embedded in his nervous system!"

[Romão 2,274]

But did PJ realy have to change Faramir?Couldn't he just leave him alone?

Daniel Day Lewis refused to play Aragorn...how good he would've been, I'm sure. He's just a great actor. I really don't buy Voggo. And Legolas speaks always in the exact same tone. And they had no need to turn Gimli into a clown.

Sean bean, Ian Mckellen, Christopher Lee and Brad Dourif are, IMHO, by far, the best actors in the trilogy.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

- Marc, thinks John Rhys-Davies is mighty cool in this one.

"He was twitching, because he's got my axe embedded in his nervous system!"

It's hilarious, i truly burst out in laughter when i saw that scene.

Not sure if Gimli is supposed to know what a nervous system is though, since LOTR plays in a time so very long ago.

Stefancos- who really doesn't care.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Not sure if Gimli is supposed to know what a nervous system is though, since LOTR plays in a time so very long ago.  

Hehe. Have you heard the discussions about the line "Looks like meat's back on the menu, boys!" on the commentaries yet?

- Marc