Potterdom Film/Score Series Thread

[nightscape94 965]

Sounds suspiciously like the original untampered track from Philosophers' Stone :?

I always suspected those horn players of something.

Tim

[Composer_Fan 2]

I wish the Hogwarts March would've used the actual Hogwarts Forever theme.

I also wish Window to the Past would've been played when Harry's parents came out of the wand.

I wish John Williams had scored this movie....alas....

Still, great audio clips, guys!

[nightscape94 965]

I believe Williams has been hired to score the April DVD release...

Tim

[Panthera 0]

This will be interesting. Who thinks Doyle or JW will score the next one? I'm hoping that another new person doesn't score it. JW was great, and Doyle was really good too.

[nightscape94 965]

Who knows. Alfonso Cuarón once said in an interview that he was contractually obligated to use Williams, and that even if he wanted to use a different composer, he couldn't.

I'm not sure what Doyle signed up for with the studio. He might have wanted to have a little more security.

Tim

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

OOTP would be a great opportunity to hear new variations of the "Past" theme. The film needs to really emphasise Harry's relationship with his godfather and cut all the excess if it's to be a coherent film. Luckily, that Kloves guy isn't writing it, so there might not be any more of those attempts to please every fan and wasting screen time by including almost every subplot, but not actually finishing it and not letting the audience know why it's there (or so I've heard this is what GOF is like).

They should have just cut out that redundant Cho Chang subplot in GOF since it goes absolutely no where in the books.

[gkgyver 1,646]

The Hogwarts-March from GoF as it should be for a real Williams Fan  

http://www.cinemashow.de/cii_forum/data/hogwarts.mp3  

Boy, even fan composers can do better than Doyle. Maybe you should redo GoF for our own pleasure.

[Sandor 797]

Just saw the film. Thought it was good, but the last 20 minutes turned out to be GREAT. Music worked sometimes well in the film: some pieces were wonderfully used. The Waltzes and during the scene where Harry sees the "ghosts" at the end when the Love reappears... goosebump erection!

Still; the moments Hedwig's Theme appeared people in the audience started to hum the melody out loud and normally such a thing would irritate me, now it put a smile on my face.

[boom-tzzzz 0]

glad to hear you're enjoying my track.

At first I was very frustated about Doyle to be the new composer for HP.

But I don't think that one can compares both with each other - if you do it will be very disappointing.

And actually I don't think that it would have been such a good idea if Doyle had used all the familiar HP themes, because he uses a complete different style than Williams. In fact he reminds me of Howard Shore.

And think of Don Davis and JP III. Did YOU like the statements of Williams themes? To my mind they didn't fit in the score of Davis.

[SingingHigh 0]

am brand new to the site. I saw HP4 opening day and I was immediately stunned that John Williams was not the composer. To me, Doyle's music was incredibly uninspiring, and all the treasured themes were gone! The energy and excitement just dwindled for me, (along with the movie in general) Missing JW made it so hard to identify to this movie. I have always felt that the only true continuing thread that binds the HP movies has been JW's score. In each progressive movie, the kids have grown and changed physically and mentally (to be expected of course), the supporting cast changes, the directors change (aak!)...but just like the star wars movies, there has always that great music that held everything together and made it like coming home.

For me, the worst moment of all in HP4 was the scene when Harry brings back Cedrics body. On top of it being an incredibly weak scene overall, Doyle's score was over-the-top maudlin. It prevented the audience to cry...because the music was so loudly emoting for us! In fact, it is the most sappy moment in movie music I have heard in a long time.

I decided to seek out a site of JW fans so that I could cry on your shoulders. I am surprized that so many of you like the Doyle score and are being generously open minded about it. I respect your mature serenity, but I'm going to holding onto nashing my teeth and weeping like a baby.

I apologize for not reading all of the past 98 pages here...will someone be so kind to explain exactly why JW was not involved in this movie? I just cant get over this. I'm in mourning.

[DarkLord89 0]

I've not followed this thread very carefully, but I can just say that JW was just too busy to write the score for Goblet of Fire: his new soundtrack for Memoirs of a Geisha has just been released and he's just finished recording (or is he still?) his latest score for Spielberg's Munich.

[King Mark 3,631]

am brand new to the site. I saw HP4 opening day and I was immediately stunned that John Williams was not the composer. To me, Doyle's music was incredibly uninspiring, and all the treasured themes were gone! The energy and excitement just dwindled for me, (along with the movie in general) Missing JW made it so hard to identify to this movie. I have always felt that the only true continuing thread that binds the HP movies has been JW's score. In each progressive movie, the kids have grown and changed physically and mentally (to be expected of course), the supporting cast changes, the directors change (aak!)...but just like the star wars movies, there has always that great music that held everything together and made it like coming home.  

For me, the worst moment of all in HP4 was the scene when Harry brings back Cedrics body. On top of it being an incredibly weak scene overall, Doyle's score was over-the-top maudlin. It prevented the audience to cry...because the music was so loudly emoting for us!  In fact, it is the most sappy moment in movie music I have heard in a long time.  

I decided to seek out a site of JW fans so that I could cry on your shoulders. I am surprized that so many of you like the Doyle score and are being generously open minded about it. I respect your mature serenity, but I'm going to holding onto nashing my teeth and weeping like a baby.

I apologize for not reading all of the past 98 pages here...will someone be so kind to explain exactly why JW was not involved in this movie? I just cant get over this. I'm in mourning.

Personally ,a good Williams score is wwhat drives me to watch a film several times in the cinema instead of just once.

I think Williams may be the key (in part) to the "staying power " of the previous Potter films(and the Star Wars films as well).You express it very conciously,as for others it may be unconcious,meaning a lot of people may not see the movie 2 or 3 times as they normally would because it lacks that special something that makes it worth watching 2 or 3 times.We'll see how this movie fares in 2 or 3 weeks once the initial wave is over...I predict it will make less money than the previous ones.

K.M.

[Composer_Fan 2]

Welcome to the site, Singing High!

While Doyle's score was definately not as inspiring as Williams', I didn't really mind the part with Cedric's death. To me, that was one of the more redeeming cues of the score, along with the opening credits and Harry in Winter. Only because they contain some basic thematic material....

~Tyler

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

The Hogwarts-March from GoF as it should be for a real Williams Fan

http://www.cinemashow.de/cii_forum/data/hogwarts.mp3  

Hope you like it.

very nice! well very nice integration of JW work! cause i still dotn like the polka. lol

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

For me, the worst moment of all in HP4 was the scene when Harry brings back Cedrics body. On top of it being an incredibly weak scene overall, Doyle's score was over-the-top maudlin. It prevented the audience to cry...because the music was so loudly emoting for us! In fact, it is the most sappy moment in movie music I have heard in a long time.  

I definitely disagree. I can see where one might think the music was over the top, but I really think it actually worked very well in context. That and the great performances created a truly heart-wrenching scene.

Ray Barnsbury

[JoeinAR 1,949]

the doyle score succeeded in part, like the entrance into the great hall by the visiting students, and failed in others, noticable in the dragon sequence, D-U-L-L

[Damo 0]

No other film composer can be as perfect as John Williams. Each film composer is different and have their own style of music. Doyle score has a few parts in GOF that may have succeeded but not in the rest of the other parts.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

No other film composer can be as perfect as John Williams.

Sounds as if Doyle didn't even try.

[Damo 0]

Doyle's score for GOF isn't that bad. I prefer to see the movie and hear the doyle's score with it before i make my final comment on doyle's score for GOF.

[gkgyver 1,646]

IMO, GoF gets even worse when you have the corresponding scenes in your head. It makes you realise what opportunities Doyle missed.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

the doyle score succeeded in part, like the entrance into the great hall by the visiting students, and failed in others, noticable in the dragon sequence, D-U-L-L

Very true indeed. That was one of the most major let-downs for me. I had imagined the music to implement both fast-paced theme for the flying on the broom (a.k.a. Numbus 200 theme, even though the broom is now a Firebolt) and a large loud theme for the dragon chasing Harry. The large loud theme was there, but it was slow and the fast-paced flying music was completely missing. You said it: D-U-L-L.

I saw Gof yesterday and thought it was quite a good one. Defenitly much better than the completely and utter mistake that was Prisoner of Azkaban. The only thing I liked about PoA was the absolutely excellent music. The story of the movie was messed up and hardly made sense anymore (which is rather a shame, because I like PoA best of all the books). There were a lot of things in the movie that were completely superfluous, wasting movie time that could've been spent on enhancing the story. Plus a lot of things suddenly looked rather different from the PS and CoS movies. The Patronus didn't at all look as it was supposed to and Lupin was a CREEP!

On to GoF now: Lot of humour and the story has been handled much better. It is realy noticeable that a lot is missing. Actually, the only thing the movie seriously lacked was a score by John Williams. The music by Patrick Doyle is OK, I suppose, but nowhere near John Wiliams' usual brilliance. It works in the film sure enough and defenitly makes it a better movie then it would've been without the music. But even far-from-excellent music can add something to a movie (imagine National Treasure without the music; the music isn't very good, but having no music would've been even worse). I miss the excellent themes* (having Window to the Past, Fawkes' Theme and Voldemort's Theme in there would've made it soo much better), exciting (and fun) acton music and truly dramatic music (the music from the end of PS is scarier than the entire GoF movie). Best musical moments in the movie: Whenever Hedwig's Theme was being used. I suppose I'll have to do with the Patrick Doyle score though. I seems to have done his best. Unfortunately, Doyle's best is rather lacking in comparision with Williams' best.

That John Williams version of the Hogwarts March is excellent. That is indeed much more of how it should've been. Thanks boom-tzzzz.

About people bashing CoS: I really liked the first movie when it came out. I liked the second movie better. I was GREATLY disappointed in PoA. GoF is quite good though. It is the best movie. Or would've been if the music was better (or: John Williams-composed).

* When I watched Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone some time ago, I had non-stop goosebumps for the full duration of the movie due to the music not stopping being overly excellent. BRING ON THE 2-DISC EDITION!

Edit: Be sure to vote in the Scorereviews poll asking which is the best Potter score. I voted for The Sorcerer's Stone (whch should've read Philosopher's Stone, of course), which, shockingly enough, doesn't even have more votes than GoF yet. Luckily, PoA at least does rank higher than PS.

[Morlock 11]

BTW, latest FSM podcast is about Doyle's score. I just love these podcasts- Jon and Al humming Doyle is priceless.

[Sandor 797]

I must honestly admit that I've been thinking about GOF whole day. I thought it was an amazing film and to be honest the music mostly did wonders. There were moments where the music really took center stage. When Harry sees the "ghosts" at the end and the love theme appears, man, I really have to think if there's a moment in the first three films that tops that. It was spine tingling.

[ChrisAfonso 188]

The one thing Doyle's score lacks is complexity. The emotion is right, the action mostly so (though a bit too LotR-like in places - here the Williams complexity would make a great deal of difference).

[ChrisAfonso 188]

BTW, latest FSM podcast is about Doyle's score. I just love these podcasts- Jon and Al humming Doyle is priceless.

Where do i find this?

[Morlock 11]

http://filmscoremonthly.com/articles/2005/...M_Podcast_3.asp

[gkgyver 1,646]

I had to search FSM for quite a while to find this, but it's worth it!

When Harry sees the "ghosts" at the end and the love theme appears, man, I really have to think if there's a moment in the first three films that tops that. It was spine tingling.  

A moment that tops that? Let me see ... Hagrid's return at the end of CoS always brings tears to my eyes. Every single moment between Professor Lupin and Harry in PoA had the same power.

That whole Priori Incantatem scene was way too short. And the uninformed audience doesn't even know what the hell's going on. Alright, that was also certainly the case when the Philosopher's Stone suddenly pops up in Harry's pocket, but it was explained afterwards.

In GoF, all we get is:

"Professor, there were ghosts coming out of my wand!"

"Ah, Priori Incantatem."

??

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Unfortunately, the films are made under the assumption that everyone in the audience knows the books inside-out. Reading the book shouldn't be a prerequisite for watching a film and understanding it. That just makes the movie weaker.

By the way, POA is kicking some major scrawny wizard arse in that poll.

[Sandor 797]

A moment that tops that? Let me see ... Hagrid's return at the end of CoS always brings tears to my eyes. Every single moment between Professor Lupin and Harry in PoA had the same power.  

That whole Priori Incantatem scene was way too short. And the uninformed audience doesn't even know what the hell's going on. Alright, that was also certainly the case when the Philosopher's Stone suddenly pops up in Harry's pocket, but it was explained afterwards.  

In GoF, all we get is:  

"Professor, there were ghosts coming out of my wand!"  

"Ah, Priori Incantatem."

Do you know what scene I'm talking about? And I'm talking about the way the music works in combination with the visuals.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Hagrid's return at the end of CoS always brings tears to my eyes.

That scene makes me retch.

- Marc, who still hasn't seen GoF.

[Damo 0]

The Hogwarts-March from GoF as it should be for a real Williams Fan  

http://www.cinemashow.de/cii_forum/data/hogwarts.mp3  

Boy, even fan composers can do better than Doyle. Maybe you should redo GoF for our own pleasure.

Hah, I recognised the Hogwarts Forever theme part in it.

[SturgisPodmore 0]

Hagrid's return at the end of CoS always brings tears to my eyes.

That scene makes me retch.

beerchug

~Sturgis

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

"There's no Hogwarts without you, Hagrid"

So what was it a thousand years ago? A brothel?

[JoeinAR 1,949]

a thousand years ago, Harry Potter wasn't there, and it was his sentiment, which was fine and appropriate.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Lame excuse for an even lamer line.

[Justin 2]

I don't think the scene is lame. It just doesn't make much sense. It's like a high school applauding the janitor who went to prison for 2 days and is now back. Why exactly do the Hogwarts students care so much about Hagrid? There's no shown interaction between Hagrid and the other students. Perhaps the students are just applauding for what a superb job he did to tending the lawn. That's about how genuine the scene feels and that's about how genuinly I give a crap.

Justin - Who thinks actually the scene isn't that bad do to Williams breathtaking music.

[gkgyver 1,646]

Do you know what scene I'm talking about? And I'm talking about the way the music works in combination with the visuals.

Alright, I'll elaborate for the slower mind: any scene between Harry and Lupin ACCOMPANIED BY MUSIC WRITTEN AND CONDUCTED BY JOHN WILLIAMS has the same power.

"There's no Hogwarts without you, Hagrid"  

So what was it a thousand years ago? A brothel?

I'm sure Drax must have thought of that when he read H-BP.

Anyway, it's not about the entire history of Hogwarts of course, it's about the time every student spends there, and more precisely: about the time Harry, Ron and Hermione spend there.

[Henry B 50]

Justin - Who thinks actually the scene isn't that bad do to Williams breathtaking music.

That's "Leaving Hogwarts" from The Philosopher's Stone, isn't it?

[SturgisPodmore 0]

No, it was a bit different, plus there was more than just the re-hash.

The ridiculous thing about the movie is how everyone claps, because all the students hate Hagrid with a passion, except the trio, and it's such a horribly sappy moment. Radcliffe's stupid uber-happy face doesn't help, either. I didn't know they allowed Prozac at Hogwarts.

Alright, I'll elaborate for the slower mind: any scene between Harry and Lupin ACCOMPANIED BY MUSIC WRITTEN AND CONDUCTED BY JOHN WILLIAMS has the same power.

Actually, the scene of Lupin berating Harry is I believe left unscored and that had the same power for me.

~Sturgis

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Do you know what scene I'm talking about? And I'm talking about the way the music works in combination with the visuals.

Alright, I'll elaborate for the slower mind: any scene between Harry and Lupin ACCOMPANIED BY MUSIC WRITTEN AND CONDUCTED BY JOHN WILLIAMS has the same power.

"There's no Hogwarts without you, Hagrid"  

So what was it a thousand years ago? A brothel?

I'm sure Drax must have thought of that when he read H-BP.

It's still a brothel while he's there, what's the difference?

[nightscape94 965]

The ridiculous thing about the movie is how everyone claps, because all the students hate Hagrid with a passion, except the trio, and it's such a horribly sappy moment.

I don't recall a point in the book where Rowling says all the students hate Hagrid...

I'm not being stingy, but if you can find a spot...

Tim

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

I think Sturge was exaggerating, but the trio does seem to be the only ones who really hang out or even like Hagrid very much. No one else cares for his lessons, for example; they prefer Professor Grubbly-Plank.

Ray Barsnbury - who also thinks the end of CoS was terrible

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Spine-tingling moments for me in the films: the last shot of Buckbeak's flight, as he flies across the lake with the sun and castle in the background; when Lupin talks about Lily on the bridge, and Sirius before fleeing at the end; Lupin's berating Harry for using the map; the revelation about Black being Harry's godfather (the music helps tremendously here); Dumbledore's cryptic instructions to Hermione about the Time-Turner; Hermione and Ron's fight at the end of the Yule Ball; Harry's parents reappearing during Priori Incantatem; and the return from the maze with Cedric. I don't know, some of these might not seem that affecting, but sometimes it's the subtleties that get to me.

Ray Barnsbury

[nightscape94 965]

It's funny that as many times as I've watched CoS (a movie I happen to enjoy), I never thought the ending was out of place. Yes, the "slow-clap" thing is worn out, an old device that doesn't make sense in any movie, but it honestly didn't bother me. I guess it's because I like Hagrid, and I wasn't thinking about the children's reactions. I wanted to see him get a good entrance, but again, never thinking about the context. Maybe I was too involved in the movie. I don't know.

Tim

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

No, it was a bit different, plus there was more than just the re-hash.

It was the "House Cup" and "Leaving Hogwarts" from PS, with a bigger, brassier ending. Pretty much a rehash.

[nightscape94 965]

No, it was a bit different, plus there was more than just the re-hash.

It was the "House Cup" and "Leaving Hogwarts" from PS, with a bigger, brassier ending. Pretty much a rehash.

That's what happens when someone "adapts" the music for you.

Tim

[King Mark 3,631]

No, it was a bit different, plus there was more than just the re-hash.

It was the "House Cup" and "Leaving Hogwarts" from PS, with a bigger, brassier ending. Pretty much a rehash.

That's what happens when someone "adapts" the music for you.

Tim

Williams wrote that cue.

I like the unreleased The House Cup from PS better.Reunion of Friends is missing the second majestic statement of Harry's theme before seiguing into the Leaving Hogwarts segment.

K.M.Tired of pointing out William Ross didn't write anything in the CoS score.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

No-one said he did, KM. It was clearly adapted from PS.

[nightscape94 965]

No, it was a bit different, plus there was more than just the re-hash.

It was the "House Cup" and "Leaving Hogwarts" from PS, with a bigger, brassier ending. Pretty much a rehash.

That's what happens when someone "adapts" the music for you.

Tim

Williams wrote that cue.

K.M.Tired of pointing out William Ross didn't write any of the score.

I'm still not totally convinced or sold that Ross didn't take pre-existing music and adapt it himself when the cue called for it, or setting a variation of a theme for certain scenes (like the Chamber theme). I remember being a staunch defender of Williams doing every note, but the fact is, he wasn't conducting the orchestra and he wasn't there during the recording. Until I see an interview with Ross that says he had absolutely nothing to do with the film except conduct what Williams wrote, then I have to remain guarded about it. Adapting can still mean a lot of things, and I really don't think Williams wrote scene specific cues. I have a feeling he wrote concert pieces for new themes and Ross took those and made the music work for the film, meaning Ross did variations on themes and whatnot when he had to set underscore.

Tim

[King Mark 3,631]

I disagree.the underscore is too filled with Williams fingerprints.Even the unreleased music.If Williams Ross could imitate him so perfectly then I'd be buying all his c.d.'s now.

K.M.