Are you oversensitive when it comes to JW???

[Josh500 1,615]

I've read on filmtracks.com that people tend to be oversensitive to criticism when it comes to film composers. I think that's generally true. That might be because film composers are generally overlooked by the public, even though they are certainly some of the most talented, skillful, and hard-working musicians out there. So, yes, if anyone who doesn't know much about it criticizes JW (or even talks about him in a dismissive way), I'm quick to get annoyed or even angry. I'm like, "What do YOU know about it?" If anyone criticizes Eric Clapton (of whom I'm also a great fan) I hardly ever get upset. That's probably because he has already so many fans, one or two less doesn't really matter.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

I hate when someone points out similarities in his works.

Specially with the rippers that exist out there.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I don't like hearing unfounded criticisms about JW, but not about other composers either. I never get genually angry though.

[King Mark 3,631]

Yes,because anything JW related is such a specialised interest and become an inherant part of me that of course I'm sensitive when someone critisise him,or roots for the other guy to win at the Oscars,or says the LotR soundtracks are better than the SW or HP soundtracks,or the people that mainly stick around JWfan for the Giacchino thread,or doesn't understand that he's the greatest composer ever.

K.M.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

or the people that mainly stick around JWfan for the Giacchino thread,or doesn't understand that he's the greatest composer ever.

K.M.

Hey i agree with you!

But im not here for giacchino

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Yes, yes, GOD yes. It's quite unhealthy, and probably very irritating for others. It annoys me when people go for "flavour of the month" composers; Klaus Badelt with Pirates, Shore and LOTR etc. and ignore the consistent composers like Williams.

I got very touchy in the Mugglenet forum when one poster said this:

As anti-Williams as I am (not really anti-him, just anti-film composers...mainly because I know several orchestrators and I'm fully aware of how little the composers actually do...) the score for PoA really sat well with me...easily my favorite Williams score (it doesn't fit in his little Star Wars/Indiana Jones/HP 1 and 2/every other movie he's done box...). I really hope he gets it for this...

Despite the praise for POA I didn't stomach the "box" idea and especially the indication that Williams (and other composers) is (are) lazy. I know that Williams gives very detailed notes on his scores before giving them to orchestrators, practically telling them everything the should do. That forum is a source of many-a-headache for me anyway. The half who actually realize there's music in the films go on to say the first two scores aren't very good, they're re-hash Williams and feel sorry for William Ross who apparently did all the work on CoS.

So yes, I'm very sensitive when it comes to John...

[King Mark 3,631]

I forgot to mention FSM board with their hardline Jerry Goldsmith worshippers that are also anti-Williams.That's why I don't post there.

K.M.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Are you oversensitive when it comes to JW???

What do you mean?

Oversensitive?

ME!...you are calling me oversensitive.

HOW DARE YOU....I AM NOT OVERSENSITIVE AT ALL!

THIS IS TERRIBLE, HOW DARE YOU SAY SUCH THING ABOUT ME...HOW DARE YOU MAKE SUCH CLAIMS!!!

I'm utterly dismayed...nay, distraught even!

BTW, does my butt look big in this?

[King Mark 3,631]

I also hate all the people who don't think the only reason to watch the Oscars this year is to see if Williams will win the best score award.

K.M.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It isn't if you live in Europe, the ceremony is in the late night hours and you have to go to work the next morning.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

yep

luke who will see the ceremony if Williams wins.

Luke, who hopes to see the ceremony

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Also, no Dutch channel ever broadcasts it live.

So if the BBC doesn't carry it, there's simply no chance for me to see it.

Besides, it's a lot more fun reading the posts on the MB the next morning, regulars all disgrundled about JW losing again.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I laughed hard when people here got all angry because Howard Shore got what he deserved for FOTR.

[Bowie 45]

John Williams gave me direction in life. I am now studying composition at university because of him and only him. When others don't see the same irreplaceable genius in him that I do, it threatens everything I now am and will be. But opposers don't seem to deter Williams himself, and I shalln't either.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

He may got what HE deserved, but you didn't mind that Williams was robbed his in the meantime?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

If I felt Shore deserved the Oscar, then how can I possible think Williams was robbed?

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

In a thread titled "Are you oversensitive when it comes to JW???" it's my job to question that.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

The didnt deserve two and you know it!

Beware of KM unleashed

[Johnnyecks 33]

Yes,because anything JW related is such a specialised interest and become an inherant part of me that of course I'm sensitive when someone critisise him,or roots for the other guy to win at the Oscars,or says the LotR soundtracks are better than the SW or HP soundtracks,or the people that mainly stick around JWfan for the Giacchino thread,or doesn't understand that he's the greatest composer ever.

K.M.

This coming from the guy whose pictures shows Williams being choked.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

This coming from the guy whose pictures shows Williams being choked.

How are things John, did the chaos of victory die down yet?

[HPFAN_2 0]

I couldn't care less what other people think of JW. I love him, that's all that matters.

[Melange 446]

Very true. That's how i view it. Viscious defense only stems from a persons own hidden doubt. A little defense in order to put someone right about their total misunderstanding, is fine of course. But when it gets really nasty and continous, then there is something wrong.

[MrScratch 294]

No, because every one who dismisses Williams to my face are only familiar with his most famous themes and not at all familiar with the complete scores and how they function in the film or as a listening experience. They are also unaware of or unfamiliar with JWs non-blockbuster scores and concert works.

[David Coscina 3]

I think this poll would be better applied to Goldsmith fans- who have a tendency of lauding everything the maestro wrote and defend such "classics" like Congo or Bad Girls to the hilt. C'mon, some objectivity people!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Congo is a very good score!

It's also a very enjoyable film.

[Danielle 0]

I think this poll would be better applied to Goldsmith fans- who have a tendency of lauding everything the maestro wrote and defend such "classics" like Congo or Bad Girls to the hilt.  C'mon, some objectivity people!

... Both good scores. What's wrong with them?

[Hlao-roo 389]

I forgot to mention FSM board with their hardline Jerry Goldsmith worshippers that are also anti-Williams.That's  why I don't post there.

I don't think that this is quite as true of the FSM board anymore, particularly with fanatics like David Maxx and Dan Hobgood posting only sporadically. (And with Hobgood, you have to qualify his "anti-Williams" stance, which comes mostly from his dogmatic intellectualizing of the way a score should inform its film. If you ask him about Williams's pure musicality, he's apparently a great admirer.) Williams receives his fair shaire of vocal admiration there...think Doug Adams or Jeff Bond when they do post, or David Coscina, frequently Michael Ware, and a number of others (not including the jwfan.net members who post there).

On a different note, I like my Bad Girls score...a personal favorite in my book, although in the slower passages I admit it gets a tad cloying.

[John Crichton 4]

I don't get oversensitive. I'm comfortable that I know Williams is the best, and that's that. If someone tries to pull some Baldelt or Shore worshipping I usually make sure to correct them, though.

John- who will only watch the Oscars for Williams, and turn it off as soon as the Best Score is announced.

[RenOldman 0]

Congo is a very good score!

It's also a very enjoyable film.

It is very good.....the score that is.

The film would have been better if they got rid of the thing that makes Amy talk. Sign language I can live with but a portable Sign language decipher (that's what it is right?) is downright ridiculous.

I love Monroe's lines and the other actors as well.....

Monro (M):I'm your great white hunter, but I happen to be black.

M:The ghost tribe has several levels of "dead." Someone's not dead until they're completely "dead."

M: When the moon is like that, every monkey for 200 miles thinks he's Elvis Presley.

M: When these little African countries get into a dispute, they tend to just murder everybody. They live for the opportunity to settle scores... and they have a lot of scores to settle.

M (On Africa IIRC): Quite frankly, the twentieth century sucks. Maybe the twenty-first will be better.

M: They just blew up the president's car.

Eddie Venturo (unsure of last name): That was the president's car? Did they get him?

M: That's the bad news: no, they didn't.

P: This is right out of Kafka.

Guard:Who is Kafka?? TELL ME!!!!

and the whole Delroy Lindo's scene

C: Mr. Homulka?

H (gulps): ... Yes?

C: Stop eating my sesame cake.

pause

C:STOP EATING MY SESAME CAKE!... What are you doing in my country? You bag of shit.

H: Captain, please. I only wish to explore and discover-

C: This fellow is a BIG... BAG... OF... SHIT. You should shake this rat from off your neck. He owes money to everybody everywhere he goes! I will ask you to wait outside, Mr. Homulka.

These lines alone make the movie worth it......so if its on TV watch it. I personally liked the TV version more than the one I have seen on VHS. (And yes I have it recorded from TV as well and I wanted to replace that tape and cut the commercials. Needless to say I watch the TV version more often.......Usually only the first half or if you have seen the movie....until they land in the forest after parachuting (sp?))

Sorry if you don't like quotes in a topic about JW when the quotes have nothing to do with JW or the movies he has worked on.

[Adam 1]

I like reading informed and thoughtful criticism of JW. Even if I disagree I feel like I benefit from hearing that kind of thing. Then there's the kind of criticism that sounds like criticism but really is ?I don?t like listening to that? in which case I don?t feel the need to get defensive (since everyone differs in preferences) except maybe to occasionally point out that its better not to equate one?s tastes with some sort of definitive judgement on JW or a score?s worth.

If I feel like somebody is bashing him based on a misunderstanding or a lack of understanding then I?m probably defensive, not because of the criticism but because of the misunderstanding. The FSM board does provide some examples of this although now I'm consciously avoiding it to escape the vortex that will suck me in and take away more of my time. ( :

- Adam

[RenOldman 0]

I think this poll would be better applied to Goldsmith fans- who have a tendency of lauding everything the maestro wrote.

Well so many do it with Williams why not Goldsmith??

Are you implying that because Goldsmith is not Williams and therefore he can not be in the same league as your "GOD (JW) "??

I also find it funny that you are being oversensitive on a thread about sensitivity?? You can't even take a question about people that criticize JW.

Eric- who thought people online were not ignorant and then read Fiery Angel's post.
Eric- who is not totally ignorant.........Yes I said totally so I am semi-ignorant but I am aware that I am ignorant. Do you know if you are?? Or are you ignorant of that as well??
Eric- who likes both JW and JG but likes each for different reasons.

[RenOldman 0]

I like reading informed and thoughtful criticism of JW. Even if I disagree I feel like I benefit from hearing that kind of thing. Then there's the kind of criticism that sounds like criticism but really is ?I don?t like listening to that? in which case I don?t feel the need to get defensive (since everyone differs in preferences) except maybe to occasionally point out that its better not to equate one?s tastes with some sort of definitive judgement on JW or a score?s worth.  

- Adam

I agree with this......sorry I did not read this before my post.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Sometimes should have been an option.

[SturgisPodmore 0]

I am horrifically oversensitive about John Williams! In my band at school, there have been serveral instances where there has been a trumpet fanfare, and sure enough, someone will shout "That sounds like Jurassic Park!" And from the back of the room (I play percussion) I say loudly "No it doesn't," and everyone looks at me. So sad, and I get very upset about ignorant people like that.

Or, like on that JNH forum linked in the "POA Has Been Nominatied" thread (not the actual fan site), when people were saying John shouldn't get an Oscar because he already has five, they're being dumb and not understanding that POA IS THE BEST SCORE OF THE YEAR! And people who, like KM said, simply don't understand that he is the best composer ever. They all annoy me.

As does improper grammar.

Just another thought.

~Sturgis

[David Coscina 3]

I think this poll would be better applied to Goldsmith fans- who have a tendency of lauding everything the maestro wrote.

Are you implying that because Goldsmith is not Williams and therefore he can not be in the same league as your "GOD (JW) "??

I don't diefy Williams. I think he's a master technician at composing. In pure musical terms, I think he's at the top of the heap. But how he applies music to film, well, then I'd take Goldsmith because his marriage of music to visuals was a very singular approach. Not to say his music was bad- far from it. There are Goldsmith scores I hold in higher regard than Williams'.

Obviously my initial post sparked some emotions on this Goldsmith thing. I don't feel that I am ignorant, having been involved with music composition and having scored films myself.

That's my thoughts on the subject at hand. I do wish more people could try to separate their objectivity from personal feelings toward a composer or piece of music. Methinks less confrontations would arise.

oh, and I stand by my initial post- Bad Girls and Congo are not Papillon, Islands in the Stream, Patton, ST:TMP etc. If you want to laud some good '90's Goldsmith scores, try Six Degrees of Separation, The Edge (a classic), LA Confidential, and perhaps Mulan.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

They all annoy me.  

As does improper grammar.  

Just another thought.

Yes. Oh, yes.

-Ross, who cannot respect the Internet for that very reason.

[Composer_Fan 2]

In my school music class, we were all to bring in a CD to share with the class. Well, I had American Journey in my player at the time, so I shared it. My teacher said "His music isn't good, unless there's a picture to go with it." *eye twitch* I think American Journey is a CD packed with imagery, all you have to do is listen to the music and you feel the emotion of the different aspects of America. *more twitching*

[RenOldman 0]

I am horrifically oversensitive about John Williams! In my band at school, there have been serveral instances where there has been a trumpet fanfare, and sure enough, someone will shout "That sounds like Jurassic Park!"

They all annoy me.  

As does improper grammar.  

Just another thought.  

~Sturgis

Wait my* grammar or the student you are reffering to??

Both??

*In the other posts I have done.

[King Mark 3,631]

I don't think that this is quite as true of the FSM board anymore, particularly with fanatics like David Maxx and Dan Hobgood posting only sporadically.  (And with Hobgood, you have to qualify his "anti-Williams" stance, which comes mostly from his dogmatic intellectualizing of the way a score should inform its film.  If you ask him about Williams's pure musicality, he's apparently a great admirer.)  Williams receives his fair shaire of vocal admiration there...think Doug Adams or Jeff Bond when they do post, or David Coscina, frequently Michael Ware, and a number of others (not including the jwfan.net members who post there).

.

True..But I also lost my password.

k.M.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Yes, yes, GOD yes. It's quite unhealthy, and probably very irritating for others. It annoys me when people go for "flavour of the month" composers; Klaus Badelt with Pirates, Shore and LOTR etc. and ignore the consistent composers like Williams.  

I got very touchy in the Mugglenet forum when one poster said this:

As anti-Williams as I am (not really anti-him, just anti-film composers...mainly because I know several orchestrators and I'm fully aware of how little the composers actually do...) the score for PoA really sat well with me...easily my favorite Williams score (it doesn't fit in his little Star Wars/Indiana Jones/HP 1 and 2/every other movie he's done box...). I really hope he gets it for this...

Despite the praise for POA I didn't stomach the "box" idea and especially the indication that Williams (and other composers) is (are) lazy. I know that Williams gives very detailed notes on his scores before giving them to orchestrators, practically telling them everything the should do. That forum is a source of many-a-headache for me anyway. The half who actually realize there's music in the films go on to say the first two scores aren't very good, they're re-hash Williams and feel sorry for William Ross who apparently did all the work on CoS.

So yes, I'm very sensitive when it comes to John...

I read that post too, but didn't bother replying to it. Only at Mugglenet. They wouldn't know a good film score if it blew out of their arses. :roll:

[John Crichton 4]

I read that post too, but didn't bother replying to it.  Only at Mugglenet.  They wouldn't know a good film score if it blew out of their arses.  :roll:

Unfortunately I think this is true of most HP sites. I doubt the majority of them would know or care about Williams if he hadn't done HP.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Unfortunately I think this is true of most HP sites. I doubt the majority of them would know or care about Williams if he hadn't done HP.

Strange how Star Wars fans since 1977 to now are very aware of Williams' scores in the films and wouldn't look at the movies the same if Williams didn't score them. Yet, Harry Potter fans in general who like the movies couldn't care less about the scores or who wrote them.

[Henry B 50]

I sure am oversensitive. Once, I ran into one of those classical elitist "John Williams has only ever written the Star Wars theme" people, and I was like, "GRAGGHHHH DIE." Well. Not really. But I tried to explain to him how there was lots of other music in Star Wars. In retrospect, I should have told him about Stanley and Iris or Catch Me If You Can or something...

[SturgisPodmore 0]

I read that post too, but didn't bother replying to it.  Only at Mugglenet.  They wouldn't know a good film score if it blew out of their arses.  :roll:

Unfortunately I think this is true of most HP sites. I doubt the majority of them would know or care about Williams if he hadn't done HP.

Yeah, when they announced the whole stupid Jarv-ass Cocker situation, people were saying, "Oh, good 'cause music with words is better than no words."

And for that comment, there are no words...

Some weird freak even said, "You can't find a more respected musician than Jarvas Cocker."

Only a few people said they wanted John Williams back, or that they wanted some kind of orchestral music. (of course there is Doyle, but that was when Jarv-ass was saying he was writing the score. 8O )

~Sturgis

[Henry B 50]

Yeah, when they announced the whole stupid Jarv-ass Cocker situation, people were saying, "Oh, good 'cause music with words is better than no words."

I agree. But you know what's even better? Direct DVD recordings of films with "song" tracks. That way, you get music, lyrics, dialogue, and sound effects! The only thing better is manually inserting static and random fart noises into it, but that's kind of a cheat.

[HPFAN_2 0]

Ok so some people are ignorant, brush it off your shoulders, don't let other people's opinions affect you.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Okay, I just confirmed my sensitivity again on the Mugglenet forum. Someone interestingly concluded that there's a hidden, running theme in the three scores that could foreshadow something in the future. It's pretty wasy to see how someone would think that, but I disagreed that it was intentional on Williams' part. I didn't dismiss it entirely, but I did go on to write a several-paragraph long explanation why the cues were different, and that Gilderoy Lockhart has more in common with No Ticket than Hedwig's Theme. I even attached MIDIs of the afromentioned cues which I transcribed myself, comparing the two.

Is this obsession or sensitivity?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

No, just passionate.

8O

[SturgisPodmore 0]

Ok so some people are ignorant, brush it off your shoulders, don't let other people's opinions affect you.

I can't do that after voting "yes" in this poll.

~Sturgis