The Doctor Who Thread.....

[Wojo 2,453]

Neato.

[Sweeping Strings 2,363]

Possibly a little over-indulgent in its runtime, but otherwise terrific stuff. Capaldi carried the first-ever episode to feature the Doctor alone for almost its entirety magnificently.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Good and very unique episode.

Once again there's some cross contamination between Doctor Who and Sherlock. with the scenes inside The Doctor's "mental TARDIS" being essentially a redo of Sherlock's mind palace.

Capaldi is outstanding in this, mixing anger with fear and puzzlement. And I liked the way billions of years pass without The Doctor actually ageing this time.

Murray Gold's score was excllenet too, though essentially little more that faux-baroque music. Which really fitted the tone and feel of the episode.

But....

And this is just a personal gripe.

This episode is once again very very clever, but also fairly emotionless.

Clara just died, the Doctor is seeding with rage and grief, or he should be. And I'm just not feeling it.

Rose Tyler's farewell was heartbreaking. I still can't watch that ending without sobbing. Donna Noble's goodbye was tragic, and unfair and deeply emotional. The end of the Tenth Doctor is essentially 15 minutes of pure crying your eyes out stuff. That's something Doctor Who under RTD was really really good at.

Under Moffat, not so much.

I was moved by The Big Bang, deeply moved by Vincent And The Doctor, once again by The Day Of The Doctor....and that's it really.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Marian Schedenig 8,207]

Once again there's some cross contamination between Doctor Who and Sherlock. with the scenes inside The Doctor's "mental TARDIS" being essentially a redo of Sherlock's mind palace.

That was confusing at first, and probably would have confused me longer if I hadn't known the concept from Sherlock.

Some pretty ugly CGI in this episode, by the way.

Also, I believe Capaldi should be showered with awards for this series.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[nightscape94 965]

Finished off the Tennant era with "The End of Time", the last of the specials before series 5 starts. Seeing Tennant go, especially with that last line (intentionally the opposite of his trademark "Allons-y"), and the way he delivered it, was heartbreaking.

The all-encompassing series 4 finale "The Stolen Earth/Journey's End" was so massive in scope, including all major players, and cross-referenced with two other shows (at least I believe so; Torchwood and The Sarah Jane Adventures), that it seemed more like a finale to the entire show. Everything was wrapped up pretty nicely.

This show really knows how to pull on the emotional strings.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Hell Bent

In many ways utterly typical of a Moffat era season finale. Lot of histrionics, sudden twists, jumps back and forwards through the narrative and a lot of things happening that aren't properly explained.

Gallifrey is back and unfrozen apparently. How or why? Who nose?

The destruction and later salvation of Gallifrey has been a big deal in the revamped series, so it's a little odd that it's return is barely given any acknowledgement. But anyway.

Hell Bent does an excellent job offering context to the previous two episodes. It backtracks Clara's death...yet it doesnt. Like every Companion farewell in the series so far it has it's cake and eats it as well.

I've been dissatisfied with every season finale after series 5, but this is a good one. It's hard to explain why. Not really because of it's story. Maybe it's style.

Capaldi once again shows the difference between him and Tennant and Smith. Those Doctors needed lots of dialogue and intense acting to become menacing. Capaldi's Doctor exudes it naturally. He barely has any dialogue in the first part of the episode, yet dominates it.

I'm guessing this really is Coleman's farewell from the show, and it's a better, more emotionally satisfying one then her death two episodes back. Once again her and Capaldi are outstanding in their scenes together

Murray Gold's score is once again up front. With a nice harmonica western version of The Doctors theme, and some moving statements of Clara's (love the guitar stuff)

No idea why The Doctor's barn and those people around it should look like cowboys, btw. One of the many things in the episode that really make no sense.

Series 9 had the least pervasive season arc of the Moffat era. With the theme of The Hybrid oozing through every episode, but always in a metaphoric way. I'm not even sure at the moment who or what the Hybrid actually is....

River Song is back for Christmas! There's no reason she should be, since the series has said goodbye to her at least twice already. But Capaldi and Alex Kingston together....FUCK YEAH!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I'm not here, this is a time travel thread. I wrote this 4 weeks ago.

Wibbley wobbley timey whimey....

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Quintus 5,399]

You're back again!

Here and Back Again: A Bloggers Tale, by Stefan Cosman

http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20356&page=1

...

The Salacius effect?

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Marian Schedenig 8,207]

This was... confusing, in a way. Lots of good stuff, but I can't really make heads or tails of it yet. I might have to rewatch this series to sort out my thoughts.

I wonder though. This might very well be Clara's farewell (though it leaves a loophole). But it also establishes that Ashildr now has her own Tardis, doesn't it?

Always good to see Donald Sumpter, by the way - even though I have no idea where his character (or motivations) came from so suddenly.

The original Tardis looks nice in colourful HD. And while the sonic sunglasses were ok for a while, it's good to see the Doctor has a screwdriver again.

River Song is back for Christmas! There's no reason she should be, since the series has said goodbye to her at least twice already. But Capaldi and Alex Kingston together....FUCK YEAH!

The thing about River Song is, I don't think they ever declared that her time line actually runs linearly against the Doctor's? At least in the beginning I believe it's just said that they're out of sync, and only meet at random points of their own time streams. Later episodes suggest that they're contrary to each other, but her early mythology rather makes it sound like she's all over his time line.

[Wojo 2,453]

We know that when River first meets the Doctor, he's never seen her before (or is a very good liar) and she dies. Then we know when River is born, and her accelerated age is a result of time travel and regeneration. But I see no reason why she couldn't still have an infinite number of adventures with the Doctor along his future timeline.

[Sweeping Strings 2,363]

Finale was partly epic, thrilling and moving ... and partly baffling and slightly frustrating.

Classic Moffat, in other words!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I wonder though. This might very well be Clara's farewell (though it leaves a loophole). But it also establishes that Ashildr now has her own Tardis, doesn't it?

I'm sure Clara is through as a regular. She might turn up one day as a special guest star ala Billie Piper in The Day Of The Doctor.

And I think the point isnt really that "Me" has her own TARDIS, it's that Clara does. And that she's practically immortal, and that she has a companion...

Always good to see Donald Sumpter, by the way - even though I have no idea where his character (or motivations) came from so suddenly.

He plays Rassilon. He's basically the same character Timothy Dalton played in The End Of Time, just recast.

And yet the character is lacking any motivation here. Probably because Moffat assumes that everyone watching this episode will have seen The End Of Time, and everyone therefore must know Rassilon has gone bad.

That's one of the main issues of Moffat's tenure. The stories seem to only be written with hardcore fans in mind. The series is almost completely impenetrable to the casual viewer.

The thing about River Song is, I don't think they ever declared that her time line actually runs linearly against the Doctor's? At least in the beginning I believe it's just said that they're out of sync, and only meet at random points of their own time streams. Later episodes suggest that they're contrary to each other, but her early mythology rather makes it sound like she's all over his time line.

River started out as the ultimate companion of a future incarnation of the Doctor who knew him better then anyone. She even knew his name.

Her later appearances never really show that, since she's always pops up for one, maybe two episodes, stirs up a lot of trouble and leaves again.

I agree that her personal timeline runs completely different then the Doctors, and thats p[art of the fun of the character. But Moffat has a bad habit of suggesting that this is the last time he will ever see her again...and then bringing her back for another round.

The last time we saw her was in The Time Of The Doctor. This was River Song as stored in the computer memory on the library planet, and after living virtually for ages her "digital" life would finally end.

Which was quite moving, but loses impact if she's comes back.

Plot technically it's possible of course, but emotionally it feels a bit false.

Having said that I bloody love River and I can't wait to see Alex Kingston and Peter Capaldi on screen come Christmas Day.

Stefancos: August 6, 2009

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Marian Schedenig 8,207]

I'm sure Clara is through as a regular. She might turn up one day as a special guest star ala Billie Piper in The Day Of The Doctor.

And I think the point isnt really that "Me" has her own TARDIS, it's that Clara does. And that she's practically immortal, and that she has a companion...

Good point. And yes, she's certainly done as a regular.

He plays Rassilon. He's basically the same character Timothy Dalton played in The End Of Time, just recast.

And yet the character is lacking any motivation here. Probably because Moffat assumes that everyone watching this episode will have seen The End Of Time, and everyone therefore must know Rassilon has gone bad.[/quot€]

I didn't realise he was the same character. I'm not good with names.

[KK 3,307]

Truly touching finale with Clara. The episode as a whole on the other hand was all kinds of confusing. Still enjoyed it regardless.

[DarthDementous 1,059]

Just for a bit of clarification the prophecy of the hybrid referred to the Doctor and Clara together, this was hinted at by Maise Williams when she posited that the hybrid doesn't have to be one person, but rather two: the former as a time-lord and the latter as a human.

I actually really enjoyed this episode. Lots of eye candy (and I'm not just talking about Clara) as well as another fantastic, atmospheric and at times nostalgic store (damn shivers every-time 9's motif rings out).

One thing that I am so unbelievably thankful for that after all these years and watching the various plot threads of Doctor Who I was still able to be surprised, I thought it was going to work itself into two really predictable outcomes:

1. The Hybrid is either Me or the Doctor confirmed half-human, half-timelord

2. Clara has her memory erased and that's why she doesn't recognize the Doctor in the diner (boo Donna Noble rip-off!)

Yet that was all red-herrings and there were some really touching performances from both Capaldi and Jenna Louise-Coleman, nice to see another moment mirroring the 'Timelord Victorious' when the Doctor realises he's become an insanely destructive force just to protect his companion (can't believe he punched one of the Timelords and then caused him to regenerate by shooting him, was quite amusing seeing the transformation into a woman but also refreshing a big deal wasn't made about it. I was still sold it was the same character.).

P.S. I am still under the impression that Heaven Sent is my favorite Doctor Who episode of all time, perhaps rivaled by Blink. I was in tears at a lot of points during first watching and the ending is one of my favorite sequences of Doctor Who ever, very typical for the Doctor to escape from an impenetrable fortress in such a mind-bogglingly persistent way.

[Marian Schedenig 8,207]

was quite amusing seeing the transformation into a woman but also refreshing a big deal wasn't made about it. I was still sold it was the same character.).

A black woman nonetheless. I think it quite deliberately establishes that Capaldi's successor could be any colour or sex.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Anyone else get a kick out of hearing Capaldi play Clara's Theme on his guitar?

[Bofur01 245]

Yes! I loved that bit ?

[Sweeping Strings 2,363]

Standout emotional moment for me was a tearful Clara asking 'Why? Why would you even do that to yourself?' when she heard just what the Doctor had been through to get to Gallifrey and his quavery-voiced 'I had a duty of care ... ' in reply.

Standout 'YES!' moment was the delivery of the new sonic.

[KK 3,307]

Standout emotional moment for me was a tearful Clara asking 'Why? Why would you even do that to yourself?' when she heard just what the Doctor had been through to get to Gallifrey and his quavery-voiced 'I had a duty of care ... ' in reply

Beautiful moment, that one.

Their whole dynamic really put Clara up there as one of the show's finest companions.

[Incanus 5,715]

I have somehow found this new season a bit underwhelming. Does it get better after the first six episodes?

[KK 3,307]

It has been somewhat of an oddball season. You kind of just watch it because of the consistently engaging dynamic between the Doctor and Clara. The penultimate episode is a great refreshing one though.

[nightscape94 965]

I'm up through "Closing Time" in series 6. I'm making nachos and getting ready for the finale.

Some updated comments: While still good and enjoyable, the show itself is noticeably different in look and writing. It's almost a different show altogether after Davies left. That's not bad in itself, I understand the show has to reinvent itself out of necessity and by design, but it seems to have lost a bit of that magic. The humor is toned down comparatively.

After the absolutely magnetic and exceptional David Tennant, Matt Smith took some getting used to. I wasn't completely comfortable or sold on him until midway through the sixth series, perhaps around "A Good Man Goes to War".

Not sure I entirely get the River Song timeline, but the hell with it, I'm going with the flow! (Spoilers!)

[WilliamHorne97 16]

Just finished watching 'the mind of evil' last night. Good Jon pertwee story with the master and a machine that can kill people with their worst fears. Don't you just love when Dr Who was simple ;P

[Naïve Old Fart 9,551]

1 hour ago, WilliamHorne97 said:

Just finished watching 'the mind of evil' last night. Good Jon pertwee story with the master and a machine that can kill people with their worst fears. Don't you just love when Dr Who was simple ;P

 

 

Isn't Neil McCarthy brilliant?!

[WilliamHorne97 16]

2 hours ago, Richard said:

 

 

Isn't Neil McCarthy brilliant?!

He is quite good in it, though he plays a guy who has been turned into a 5 year old mentally

[Marian Schedenig 8,207]

I'm excited for tomorrow's special. The first Doctor Who Christmas special I'll actually be seeing on the day it comes out.

[nightscape94 965]

Up through Series 7 "Cold War".  The Ponds are gone, and after being introduced to the delightful Jenna-Louise Coleman in "Asylum of the Daleks", she returned in "The Snowmen".   She was absolutely wonderful in that episode!  I was happy to see her back a third time, as possibly the same person (this story thread interests me), but now as a full-time companion.

 

The show has lost a bit of steam this series, at least thus far, but it's still very much capable of greatness.  Hopefully it regains a bit more of its prior consistency, but still having a good time with it.

[Sweeping Strings 2,363]

Hmm ... much preferred the 'big silly romp' tone of the first 50 minutes of the special than the shift into attempted tear-jerking during the last 10.  

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Capaldi and Kingston are really excellent togather.

 

For much of the episode The Husbands Of River Song is the usual Doctor Who hysterical nonsense. Both terribly clever and incredibly not so. Big, hyperactive, colourful, entertaining and as shallow as can be,

[Marian Schedenig 8,207]

5 hours ago, Sweeping Strings said:

Hmm ... much preferred the 'big silly romp' tone of the first 50 minutes of the special than the shift into attempted tear-jerking during the last 10.  

 

No problem with that. I was a bit worried during the middle part that they were destroying River as a sympathetic character, but ultimately they didn't. Of course it was another "last meeting" type of thing, but again it was never explicitly mentioned that this really *is* the last time they meet.

 

Great acting of course. And some cool lines. The Jaws quote of course. And "Carol singers will be criticised".

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

River really is an idiot though. Not getting all the "Doctor" hints!

[Sweeping Strings 2,363]

42 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

No problem with that. I was a bit worried during the middle part that they were destroying River as a sympathetic character, but ultimately they didn't. Of course it was another "last meeting" type of thing, but again it was never explicitly mentioned that this really *is* the last time they meet.

 

Great acting of course. And some cool lines. The Jaws quote of course. And "Carol singers will be criticised".

Who has moved me to tears plenty of times in the past ('Vincent And The Doctor' reduced me to a blubbering mess, for example) but it felt like a kinda awkward tonal shift this time round.

On the witty lines front, I particularly enjoyed the Doctor having to pretend the Tardis was new to him and therefore finally getting to do 'It's bigger on the inside!' himself and the later 'I've got an irritable bowel ... ' .

[Marian Schedenig 8,207]

2 hours ago, Stefancos said:

River really is an idiot though. Not getting all the "Doctor" hints!

 

Well yes, although it's somewhat reasonably explained since a) she was actually expecting a doctor and b) she assumed she knew all the Doctor's faces.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

And the episode still doesn't rectify the fact that River will never be that "ultimate compagion" she was made out to be in Silence In The Library/Forest Of The Death.

 

It does retcon River and the Doctors final date. Which was previously depicted as taking place in the Smith era, in a minisode. But apparently he canceled...

[Marian Schedenig 8,207]

It also explains how she came by his screwdriver.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Since that was told in dialogue in Forest of the dead it wasn't explained here, just shown.

 

Also the River in the xmas special suspects it might be the last time they see each other. The River from season 4 didn't.

 

More timey-whimey?

 

What exactly is the point?

[Marian Schedenig 8,207]

9 hours ago, Stefancos said:

Since that was told in dialogue in Forest of the dead it wasn't explained here, just shown.

 

That's what I meant. Assuming the series shows at least all the relevant encounters between River and the Doctor, it was an open issue until now.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It's amusing, but hardly necessary in my opinion.

 

Isnt a Christmas Special supposed to appeal to a broader audience then normal anyway? A casual viewer of Doctor Who isnt gonna get all the connections here.

 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

You know something. I know you adore Moffat, Marian. But I'm becoming more and more dissatisfied with him on Who.

 

He actually depicted the final date of the Doctor and River, or atleast the preparation for it in the minisode The Last Night years ago.

http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Last_Night_(home_video)

 

But apparently he changed his mind, that date got "cancelled" so he could show it here.

 

That is really lazy writing from someone who can do so much better.

 

The main problem is that Moffat, like his version of The Doctor doesn't like endings.

 

At the end of series 6 it really looked like we had seen the last of Amy and Rory. In 7 they were brought back. Complete with conveniently made up marriage issues and dragged along for half a season till the poorly conceived The Angels Take Manhattan finally ended their run.

 

Same for Clara. She was supposed to depart last season. The arc was specifically written that way. But people changed their minds, and there she is for another run!

 

River fares worse then that even. Having gotten 3 goodbyes now. And she might be back because the night lasts 24 years. So those final moments actually done mean anything!

 

Yes on a timey wimey level it can be very clever. But it just becomes emotionally false! 

Its more on the level of fan-fiction then actual serious dramatic writing.

 

 

 

I really hope Moffat doesn't fuck up Sherlock by bringing back Moriarty. But I actually fear the worst.

[Jay 37,372]

God don't remind me that they are bringing back Moriarty, I had almost managed to forget!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The writing on Sherlock generally is better then on Who. Simply because that show has to stay a bit more grounded in something resembling real life. 

But I wouldn't put it past Moffat at this point. To just bring Moriarty back because he's a great character and they love working with the actor etc etc...

 

What would be the point of the rooftop scene if both survive though?

[Jay 37,372]

Yep, exactly.

 

Moriarty was great, but they killed him off in a good way that made sense, so its time to move on.