Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire

[Hlao-roo 389]

I think Mike Newell makes some pretty good points regarding John Willimas style.

I don't think he makes any legitimate, substantive points about his style at all.

[MissPadmé 17]

I think Mike Newell makes some pretty good points regarding John Willimas style.

I don't think he makes any legitimate, substantive points about his style at all.

He says that Williams doesn't move on with his style which is absolutely true

[Hlao-roo 389]

I think Mike Newell makes some pretty good points regarding John Willimas style.

I don't think he makes any legitimate, substantive points about his style at all.

He says that Williams doesn't move on with his style which is absolutely true

What in the world is that supposed to mean? Does anybody "move on with his style"?

All I'm saying is that if you want a new sound, just say that. If you want to work with a familiar face, just say that. Implying that Williams carries a personal agenda separate from and blind to the needs of any given film is simply unnecessary.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Well, you just changed your avatar, and for a while you you are using a new screenname.

[Hlao-roo 389]

That was a serious question, by the way, Esther. And, Stefan, it might be more helpful is provided a composer example. Are there composers that would, in the midst of a series, make significant changes to their sound? If so, who are they, and what is the evidence?

David Arnold, in transitioning between from the Brosnan Bond to the Craig Bond?

John Powell, in jettisoning the heavy electronica from Identity to Supremacy?

Don Davis, in introducing a gradually more romantic sound as the Matrix series progressed?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

John Barry, moving away from the jazzy/orchestral style to a more traditional sound in his Bond films.

John Williams, going from big thematic Hollywood music to rhytmic and percussion driven in his Jurassic Park films.

[Morlock 11]

Closest example I can think of is Williams on HP3.

Morlock- who would probably be less critical of Newell if he'd proven himself to be a good director in the past decade

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Jerry Goldsmith, morphing to a more Rozsa biblical epic style in The Final Conflict.

[Neimoidian 14]

I think Mike Newell makes some pretty good points regarding John Willimas style.

I don't think he makes any legitimate, substantive points about his style at all.

He says that Williams doesn't move on with his style which is absolutely true

What in the world is that supposed to mean? Does anybody "move on with his style"?

All I'm saying is that if you want a new sound, just say that. If you want to work with a familiar face, just say that. Implying that Williams carries a personal agenda separate from and blind to the needs of any given film is simply unnecessary.

Indeed, but directors or producers usually hire composers on the basis of their recent works, sadly with the idea of reproducing that certain sound. I don't suppose they are versed in his works enough to know what he is capable of and they probably associate his music with only few compositions. They could, of course, have taken the risk and asked him to work against his typical style and without doubt he would have managed to do it, but then again - as one of the composers asked elsewhere (!) - 'What is the purpose of hiring a certain composer, if one (a director/producer) does not want music that sounds like his?'

[Hlao-roo 389]

John Williams, going from big thematic Hollywood music to rhytmic and percussion driven in his Jurassic Park films.

Well, that's exactly my point, and Jesse Hopkins' point: Williams will go where the narrative takes him. He showed that with The Lost World: Jurassic Park, and he showed that with Prisoner of Azkaban. What Williams won't do, of course, is dramatically change his "style" over the course of a single film or a couple years. That's an unreasonable expectation, and none of the examples we've brought up so far, I believe, demonstrate that any composer has accomplished that.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I think that for the process of film scoring, which is, for a director a difficult and hard to control, or harder to control aspect of film making, Newel would rather have someone that he brought him and is on his team, then someone caried over by the producers and is therefore in their team.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Bill Conti, abandoning his Rocky/For Your Eyes Only sound and going all out epic in Masters of the Universe.

[Hlao-roo 389]

Bill Conti, abandoning his Rocky/For Your Eyes Only sound and going all out epic in Masters of the Universe.

I think your The Final Conflict example is better.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Because Goldsmith is better.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I think what it comes down to was that Newell basically just wanted a steady collaborator. The amount of music that was going to be in the film was quite daunting and I don't think he felt like working with Williams, who can be so very quintessential "John Williams" in his writing. Rather than trying to push Williams hard in a different direction (another desire for the fourth film - to be different) he opted to just switch composer altogether. And to one he had worked with before.

An understandable choice.

An understandable choice, but Newell's implicit critique of Williams is baseless, with his hypothetical Jaws 4 scenario bordering on nonsensical and his choice of words in infantilize being particularly unfortunate. If all it comes down to is that he wanted "a steady collaborator," that's all he needed to say.

Good points.

The Jaws 4 example is also a bit awkwardly chosen as we (and by we, I mean people who actively listen to this music on a regular basis) all know there's a huge difference between the score to Jaws and that of Jaws 2.

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

Maybe that's the problem with current (i.e. Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull) Williams; the directors aren't pushing him too far out of his comfort zone. Of course I wouldn't expect Spielberg to, since they have too good a relationship going on to screw it up, so it's probably easier just to let Williams go with what he's comfortable with. That's not a bad thing, since autopilot Williams is still highly listenable and enjoyable, but IMHO PoA is John Williams last truly wonderful score. I'd be happy to stand corrected though.

Well if it's true that POA only was like it was because Cuaron pushed Williams further than he was prepared to go by himself, then you just proved Newell's point. He does come across a bit goofy in the interview (and nobody complained about him not knowing NbNW's composer so far, for shame!) and his film mostly sucks (Doyle's score is not great, but it's decent, and easily among the best things about the film). But his rationale isn't without logic.

[Ollie 1,059]

John Williams was not going to score GOF even if Mike Newell wanted him.

He was going to score Memoirs Of A Geisha, period. Warner Bros did everything they could to keep him on the first two sequels, which is why he contributed some original music to COS.

[Trent B 337]

Hell Goldsmith even changed the music to fit the mood for the Star Trek movies that he composed for.

[Ollie 1,059]

Williams would have done what was asked of him. Newell's comments are incorrect.

[Taikomochi 1,136]

IMHO PoA is John Williams last truly wonderful score. I'd be happy to stand corrected though.

Geisha?

Newell is a boob.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

I think what it comes down to was that Newell basically just wanted a steady collaborator. The amount of music that was going to be in the film was quite daunting and I don't think he felt like working with Williams, who can be so very quintessential "John Williams" in his writing. Rather than trying to push Williams hard in a different direction (another desire for the fourth film - to be different) he opted to just switch composer altogether. And to one he had worked with before.

An understandable choice.

An understandable choice, but Newell's implicit critique of Williams is baseless, with his hypothetical Jaws 4 scenario bordering on nonsensical and his choice of words in infantilize being particularly unfortunate. If all it comes down to is that he wanted "a steady collaborator," that's all he needed to say.

Good points.

The Jaws 4 example is also a bit awkwardly chosen as we (and by we, I mean people who actively listen to this music on a regular basis) all know there's a huge difference between the score to Jaws and that of Jaws 2.

And ironically, why he speaks about Jaws 4 as hypotetical? Jaws The Revenge exists...

John Williams's thumbprint is so strong that it tends to not move on.

He MAY have mean there that when John Williams leaves a franchise, the franchise keeps milking the John Williams sound, and the didnt want that.

Nevertheless very poor choose of words.

ESB and TOD, POA and even AOTC are darker that its previous movies in the series...

And he speaks as if williams just wrote mickeymousing. Or does he really think that the scores for Williams serious dramas are infantile?

Nah, i think the guy for some reason cannot swallow Williams, seeing only the surface (comercial successful score) in his criticism, in much the same way as many people dislike Speilberg because they think he is just a blockbuster director (forgetting all the dramas and so)

I think Mike Newell makes some pretty good points regarding John Willimas style.

I suppose he does. But then the point is that what he say works for every single composer, Patty included.

Definately over the years Williams has written music for so many genres that i cant believe he said that. And of course you can hear Williams style. If you want a Zimmer style you hire RC. If you want Doyle style you hire him.

[Henry B 50]

And ironically, why he speaks about Jaws 4 as hypotetical? Jaws The Revenge exists...

No it doesn't... not as long as I keep taking these pills!

[Josh500 1,615]

IMHO PoA is John Williams last truly wonderful score. I'd be happy to stand corrected though.

Star Wars Episode III

Memoirs of a Geisha

Munich

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

None were as good as POA!

[Elmo Lewis 6]

ESB and TOD, POA and even AOTC are darker that its previous movies in the series...

Empire Strikes Back and Temple of Doom, yes. Attack of the Clones, though, is a poor example. Yes, it's darker than The Phantom Menace, but it's also one of Williams' most auto-pilot pieces.

As for Prisoner of Azkban, I tend to believe that Cuaron's direction is what made the score so different to its predecessors, even though we have no hard evidence to support that rumor (some member here reported the words of "a contact who's inside the industry"). This would, of course, make Newell right, if not not as informed as us hardcore fans would expect from somebody making this decision.

All in all, it's a triumph that the score we get to judge is exactly the type of score both director and composer intended. The result of said judgement is simply a personal thing.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Is it me or does anyone else not understand a word Newell is saying? He just blabbers on in full paragraphs about 1 simple thing. Also the fact that he couldn't remember who scored North By Northwest just ruins any credibility he had before. And the way he talked about how the studio wanted Hedwig's Theme made it seem like he didn't even want it in his film.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

He probably didn't.

Most people don't know who scored NbNW, actually.

[Taikomochi 1,136]

None were as good as POA!

IMHO, Geisha > POA

Most people don't know who scored NbNW, actually.

Coming from someone who takes film scoring so seriously like Newell, he should.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

He probably didn't.

Most people don't know who scored NbNW, actually.

Normal people, yes. But a filmmaker who claims to care about the scores in his films should know a little something about director-composer relationships.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Perhaps it slipped his mind. He was engaged in an interview, you know.

[Hitch 57]

Sweet revenge for Stepmom.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I'm in engaged in a conversation, but it doesn't slip my mind.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

You're not being interviewed.

[Richard Penna 3,689]

It's disappointing that he didn't think JW could morph to his requirements, but he clearly had his mind set on Doyle, his collaborator. Would we really have wanted Williams on board a film whose director really wanted someone else?

He does seem to have a bit of an ego though. When asked about whether he was daunted at taking the film on, he just said 'naah' rather calmly, like the film was a walk in the park for him.

BTW, as Stepmom was mentioned, does anyone have any solid indications that JW did somehow get Doyle thrown off the movie so he could do it? I find it hard to believe JW would do that, and Doyle's illness a the time would perfectly explain what happened.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

He does seem to have a bit of an ego though. When asked about whether he was daunted at taking the film on, he just said 'naah' rather calmly, like the film was a walk in the park for him.

Well, it was only a Harry Potter film.

[John Crichton 4]

It is premade gold: millions of teen fanboys and fangirls (one instance where that horrible term actually applies) who'd say it was the greatest thing ever even if Harry, Ron, and Hermionie just sat in the common room and stared at each other for two and a half hours.

[Hlao-roo 389]

It is premade gold: millions of teen fanboys and fangirls (one instance where that horrible term actually applies) who'd say it was the greatest thing ever even if Harry, Ron, and Hermionie just sat in the common room and stared at each other for two and a half hours.

dat is like...SO totally not how you spell hermione!!!! o m g!!

[Henry B 50]

It is premade gold: millions of teen fanboys and fangirls (one instance where that horrible term actually applies) who'd say it was the greatest thing ever even if Harry, Ron, and Hermionie just sat in the common room and stared at each other for two and a half hours.

Wait, isn't that the plot of Half-Blood Prince?

[Hlao-roo 389]

It is premade gold: millions of teen fanboys and fangirls (one instance where that horrible term actually applies) who'd say it was the greatest thing ever even if Harry, Ron, and Hermionie just sat in the common room and stared at each other for two and a half hours.

Wait, isn't that the plot of Half-Blood Prince?

No, it's Harry and Dumbledore staring at each other for two and half hours in a weird, closeted sort of way.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

That was a serious question, by the way, Esther. And, Stefan, it might be more helpful is provided a composer example. Are there composers that would, in the midst of a series, make significant changes to their sound? If so, who are they, and what is the evidence?

David Arnold, in transitioning between from the Brosnan Bond to the Craig Bond?

David Arnold toned down the techno element when compared to the last 2 Brosnan films, but I would not say that there is a significant difference in style.

Motives from the Brosnan era even get cameo's in Quantum of Solace.

[King Mark 3,631]

He does seem to have a bit of an ego though. When asked about whether he was daunted at taking the film on, he just said 'naah' rather calmly, like the film was a walk in the park for him.

Well, it was only a Harry Potter film.

but a failure for a HP film .I think he shoulf have stfu , he's not as good a director as Williams is a composer

[Hlao-roo 389]

That was a serious question, by the way, Esther. And, Stefan, it might be more helpful is provided a composer example. Are there composers that would, in the midst of a series, make significant changes to their sound? If so, who are they, and what is the evidence?

David Arnold, in transitioning between from the Brosnan Bond to the Craig Bond?

David Arnold toned down the techno element when compared to the last 2 Brosnan films, but I would not say that there is a significant difference in style.

Motives from the Brosnan era even get cameo's in Quantum of Solace.

I would agree. I think the main subtext of Newell's non-argument for supplanting Williams is that he doesn't particularly care for what he knows of Williams's style, at least not in the context of one Newell's films. The bottom line, to summarize and close this off, is that he preferred to work with Doyle, and that Williams would likely have been unavailable anyway. That's a legitimate decision, albeit one that he frames in the shabbiest and most suspect of terms in this interview. An otherwise good interview with an otherwise intelligent man.

[Red 75]

Newall is selling Williams short. I'm fairly certain if he did score GOF it would have been better than what Doyle came up with. But then again, that is far from the only reason why Goblet of Fire is a bad movie.

[King Mark 3,631]

That was a serious question, by the way, Esther. And, Stefan, it might be more helpful is provided a composer example. Are there composers that would, in the midst of a series, make significant changes to their sound? If so, who are they, and what is the evidence?

David Arnold, in transitioning between from the Brosnan Bond to the Craig Bond?

David Arnold toned down the techno element when compared to the last 2 Brosnan films, but I would not say that there is a significant difference in style.

yeah,I noticed the music was more Barry like in QoS

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

No, there is very little that reminds of John Barry in QoS.

[King Mark 3,631]

well ,maybe superficially. I only saw the movie once and don;t have the score. It sounded more jazzy

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Jazzy, hardly constitutes John Barry.

[Taikomochi 1,136]

Sweet revenge for Stepmom.

That joke's been made before.

[Josh500 1,615]

Reading that interview, I can draw only one conclusion: Newell doesn't know a lot about film music (no more than a slightly enthusiastic fan, I would say), and even less about John Williams. He does seem to have a bit of an ego, but it's not just that. I detect Pat Doyle behind this. I think it's Patrick Doyle talking when Newell says the thing about JW's thumbprint not moving on (or whatever it was that he said). Clearly Nevell himself doesn't have a clue, he's just going with his gut, and just working with a steady partner in films. And equally clearly, Patrick Doyle doesn't like John Williams, can't stand him... whether it's because of the alleged Stepmom incident, I don't know.

Also, IMO Patrick Doyle did a good job--for him, that is. Compared to the first 3 scores, however, the score to GoF is a (bad) loser.

[Henry B 50]

And equally clearly, Patrick Doyle doesn't like John Williams, can't stand him... whether it's because of the alleged Stepmom incident, I don't know.

Why do you think this?