John Debney's CutThroat Island - new LLL 2CD by Matessino & Bulk coming July 5 2016

[Jay 37,368]

I think they tend to only overlap cues that were intended to be overlapped by the composer, and leave cues separated otherwise.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

I might have to buy the same score a THIRD time. This may just be my favourite score ever.

John Williams is by far the best composer, but.... you know... seafaring pirate stuff is still seafaring pirate stuff.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

3 hours ago, Jay said:

I think they tend to only overlap cues that were intended to be overlapped by the composer, and leave cues separated otherwise.

 

Not necessarily.

[Jay 37,368]

To be clear, when I said "they" I referred to Matessino and Bulk, not LLL in general.

 

Feel free to show examples of where Bulk & Matessino overlapped something that shouldn't have been, when there wasn't composer interference (ie Williams) that forced their hand.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

Well as you're asking - The Edge. Several cross-fades that shouldn't be there. Granted, that one had 3 producers, but Matessino was one of them. Nobody's perfect.

[Jay 37,368]

MM just produced/mixed that one; The track assembly was by Mr. Didier C. Deutsch

[Wojo 2,453]

The Edge was perfect. 

[Richard Penna 3,694]

It wasn't. But I'm very attached to that score, and sensitive to any assembly issues.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Do the alternates within the score of the Special editions count? Or was Mattessino forced to smuggle them because of Williams involvement?

[Jay 37,368]

Things were done extremely differently in 1997 as opposed to the modern era. You can't really compare the two.

[crocodile 8,017]

On 23.05.2016 at 4:32 AM, Jay said:

MV let us know that its La-La Land releasing it, with the best possible team working on it

 

 

 

http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=110387&forumID=1&archive=0

 

So this is not happening anymore next week, right? It's just Family Guy?

 

Karol

[Jay 37,368]

Correct.  MV posted this to this FSM thread

 

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MV, is the planned release of 'Cutthroat Island' still on tracks for next Tuesday 21st June?

No that is most likely July 5

[crocodile 8,017]

Oh right, thank you. I'll wait with my purchase of Shawshank till then.

 

Might catch up on some Intrada releases instead.

 

Karol

[Incanus 5,715]

I really wonder if this is worth investigating if you already own the Prometheus version?

[Jay 37,368]

Investigating?  Of course!  Spending ~$30-$40 to have it shipped to Finland?  Might not be for you, depends on how you feel about it when the specs are released.  It likely won't sound terribly different, nor have terribly more music than before, but all that remains to be seen.

[Jay 37,368]

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Cutthroat Island is going up for sale next Tuesday July 5. We are waiting to confirm with Mr Debney if he will be around to sign booklets for the site

 

http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=67395&forumID=1&archive=0&pageID=34&r=725#bottom

[Pieter Boelen 740]

I'll be quite interested to see a track list or an indication of what is different this time.

[Jay 37,368]

Typically LLL doesn't release the track list of their new CDs until the email that goes out the night before release day, so we might not know the track list until next Tuesday morning / late Monday night.

[crocodile 8,017]

Can't be that different from the Prometheus edition, can it?

 

Karol

[Jay 37,368]

I wouldn't think so, no.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

This is one of the most overrated scores ever. I didn't enjoy it at all.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I didn't enjoy your mother at all!

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

This score is just random orchestral noise.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Gettouttahere!

[Pieter Boelen 740]

5 hours ago, Nick Tatopoulos's Beret said:

This is one of the most overrated scores ever. I didn't enjoy it at all.

Is this one of those "more for me, then" situations?

 

8 hours ago, Jay said:

Typically LLL doesn't release the track list of their new CDs until the email that goes out the night before release day, so we might not know the track list until next Tuesday morning / late Monday night.

Fair enough. Thanks.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I don't understand how a score like this is held in high regard and meanwhile @Shatner's Rug and I are criticized for enjoying David Arnold scores.

[Jay 37,368]

Huh? Everybody here loves David Arnold scores!

[nightscape94 965]

I don't quite understand how someone who loves Arnold so much can despise Cutthroat Island so much.  Debney's score is like a fashionably similar cousin to Arnold's 90s scores.

[Incanus 5,715]

51 minutes ago, nightscape94 said:

I don't quite understand how someone who loves Arnold so much can despise Cutthroat Island so much.  Debney's score is like a fashionably similar cousin to Arnold's 90s scores.

Quite.

 

 

4 hours ago, Nick Tatopoulos's Beret said:

I don't understand how a score like this is held in high regard and meanwhile @Shatner's Rug and I are criticized for enjoying David Arnold scores.

It's because you don't talk about anything else than Arnold's two scores and Batman Returns.

[Amer 2,110]

As I missed the initial bandwagon release on this So I'd love to hear this afresh and what a great way to get acquainted via LLL ! 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

1 hour ago, Incanus said:

It's because you don't talk about anything else than Arnold's two scores and Batman Returns.

 

Best scores ever made, man!

[Pieter Boelen 740]

David Arnold's best scores and Cutthroat Island are all pretty much on par with the best that John Williams wrote.

Which is definitely saying something, because that doesn't happen all too often.

[nightscape94 965]

15 hours ago, Pieter_Boelen said:

David Arnold's best scores and Cutthroat Island are all pretty much on par with the best that John Williams wrote.

 

Uh, no.  As much as I have come to love Independence Day and recognize its genius and talent, and as delightful as Cutthroat Island is, they are in no way on the same level as E.T. or Star Wars.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

4 minutes ago, nightscape94 said:

 

Uh, no.  As much as I have come to love Independence Day and recognize its genius and talent, and as delightful as Cutthroat Island is, they are in no way on the same level as E.T. or Star Wars.

Let me rephrase that: It is as close to John Williams' best work as any composer not named John Williams can come.

In my opinion. And even if objectively it isn't, I don't care. Because Cutthroat Island and Independence Day are both awesome.

[nightscape94 965]

1 minute ago, Pieter_Boelen said:

Let me rephrase that: It is as close to John Williams' best work as any composer not named John Williams can come.

 

I'm willing to accept that, especially in the case of ID4.

 

1 minute ago, Pieter_Boelen said:

Because Cutthroat Island and Independence Day are both awesome.

 

Agreed.

 

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Really? Independence Day is the best score ever written excluding John Williams?

 

 

[nightscape94 965]

I don't believe either of us said that.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

THE best? That is difficult to quantify.

ONE of the best? Definitely.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I love Batman Returns, ID4, Godzilla and that sexy ass Prince Batman album, but I'm almost positive they aren't on the level of the best work by guys like Williams, Goldsmith and Horner.

As for this score, I've always found it pretty unlistenable. I just don't like it.

 

Batman & Robin OST

[Datameister 2,044]

2 hours ago, Nick Tatopoulos's Beret said:

As for this score, I've always found it pretty unlistenable. I just don't like it.

 

I have an inexplicably hard time listening to it. The orchestration, performance, and engineering are all fantastic, and I even like the themes, but somehow the score as a whole really wears on me. Maybe it's just too relentless, too over-the-top. Even the softer passages have a certain intensity about them, and not necessarily in a good way. Williams has gone nuts with scores like TOD and whatnot, but even those find ways of giving respite from the madness.

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

3 hours ago, Nick Tatopoulos's Beret said:

As for this score, I've always found it pretty unlistenable. I just don't like it.

 

I've never really warmed to it either. Hopefully MV securing the digital rights will mean I can give the new master a listen on Spotify -- Matessino has made several scores more palatable for me in the past. If I find enough I like to make a playlist out of, I'll probably buy the digital edition (also looking forward to Ferris Bueller!).

[fommes 153]

11 hours ago, Datameister said:

 

I have an inexplicably hard time listening to it. The orchestration, performance, and engineering are all fantastic, and I even like the themes, but somehow the score as a whole really wears on me. Maybe it's just too relentless, too over-the-top. Even the softer passages have a certain intensity about them, and not necessarily in a good way. Williams has gone nuts with scores like TOD and whatnot, but even those find ways of giving respite from the madness.

Ditto!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Light weight!

[Pieter Boelen 740]

England leaving the EU, crazy people getting awfully close to high positions in governments and people naysaying Cutthroat Island; what is this world coming to?!? 

[scallenger 483]

From the mailer I got:
 

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CUTTHROAT ISLAND: LIMITED EDITION (2-CD SET)     LLLCD 1387
Music by John Debney
Limited Edition of 1500 Units
RETAIL PRICE: $19.98

STARTS SHIPPING JULY 12

 

La-La Land Records and Studiocanal present the remastered 2-CD re-issue of acclaimed composer John Debney’s (THE JUNGLE BOOK, IRON MAN 2, THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST) breathtaking original motion picture score to the 1995 pirate-themed action epic CUTTHROAT ISLAND, starring Geena Davis, Matthew Modine and Frank Langella, and directed by Renny Harlin. Previously out-of-print, Debney’s acclaimed orchestral thrill-ride of a score, performed by the London Symphony Orchestra, returns to the hearts and ears of film music enthusiasts everywhere! Produced by Neil S. Bulk and newly mixed and mastered by Mike Matessino from high resolution digital 3-track elements, this 2-CD re-issue of one of Debney’s finest works also showcases all-new art design by Jim Titus and new, in-depth liner notes from writer Jeff Bond, featuring new comments from Debney and director Renny Harlin. This is a limited edition of 1500 units.

 

TRACK LISTING:

DISC 1
1 Main Title: Morgan’s Ride 4:43
2 The Rescue 3:43
3 Purcell Snatcher 3:00
4 Shaw is Caught 1:19
5 The Funeral 1:33
6 Morgan in Command 2:50
7 The Language of Romance 2:42
8 A Lady Scorned 1:38
9 The Chase Begins / Carriage Chase 7:29
10 Ainslee Plots / To Spittlefield / Uncle Mordechai 5:40
11 Morgan Captured / Sword Fight 5:30
12 Escape from Mordechai’s 2:13
13 Setting Sail 1:05
14 Charting the Course 2:22
15 First Kiss 1:56
16 Dawg’s Plan / Shaw Discovers Location 3:22
17 The Betrayal 2:16
18 The Storm Begins 2:45
19 To the Bottom of the Sea 2:46
20 The Island 3:40
21 Shaw Steals the Map 3:33
22 Discovery of the Cave (extended version) 5:28
Total Time CD1 71:38

 

DISC 2
1 Discovery of the Treasure 2:25
2 Caught 1:37
3 Dawg’s Pets 2:16
4 The Big Jump 2:40
5 Shaw Captured 2:33
6 Morgan Takes the Ship 4:32
7 The Hangman’s Noose 3:56
8 The Battle 6:12
9 To Dawg’s Ship 2:32
10 Morgan Battles Dawg 6:05
11 Dawg’s Demise / The Triumph 3:35
12 It’s Only Gold / End Credits (extended version) 10:03
13 The Wedding Waltz 2:49
14 Main Title: Morgan’s Ride (alternate take without choir) 4:39
15 Carriage Chase (album ending) 7:24
16 Dawg’s Demise / The Triumph (without choir) 3:35
17 Morgan’s Ride and The Rescue (synth demo version) 7:33
Total Time CD2 74:30

Total Album Time: 146:08

 

 

Like what I am seeing, although I could have sworn they were going to do signed copies? Guess they couldn't at the last moment, unless they forgot to mention it here. Anyway, this would appear to actually solve the problems I had with the last release, and also notice some minor differences in putting tracks together and taking them apart:

 

- "Ainslee Plots" and "To Spittlefield" are now also joined with "Uncle Mordechai".

- "First Kiss" is now on its own, was previously joined with "Dawg's Plan".

- "Dawg’s Plan" and "Shaw Discovers Location" are joined instead.

- "Discovery of the Cave" is now marked as an 'extended version', which will now make everyone happy who noticed its truncated form (I honestly did not).

- "Dawg's Pets" appears to be a rename of "The Rope". Obviously not sure why of this as of yet, hope the liner notes explain.

- The final battle is now split up into multiple cues! Happy about this, as long as it isn't just the tracks still crossfading into one another.

- The "End Credits" is now also marked as an 'extended version', which was something I was hoping for. It's a very brief moment, but it was not in the previous release (or any). Glad to finally have it complete!

- "Wedding Waltz" is now the first bonus track after the credits, which I know will make some people happy with that change of placement in the program.

- The only track this set drops is "First Kiss- Album Edit", but I believe this is because this version now has it isolated on its own in the main program.

 

Overall, just from my observation and the reveal of a new mix and liner notes (no surprise), this is the edition I always wanted for this score. I am sure it will now make the Prometheus edition obsolete for diehard fans, unless they prefer the way some of the tracks were joined or on their own in that version compared to this. Just hope the new mix is done well, but given it's Matessino, I'm sure it will be just as good or better. Kind of shocked at the super-low limited number of units for this, but happy about the $19.99 price instead of the usual $24.99 for two CDs. I'll definitely be getting this on day one, now.

[Incanus 5,715]

I'll be skipping this one as the previous set is enough for me and I do not know the film or the score-in-film so well I would be troubled by the couple of missing minutes of music nor was I ever concerned for the mix of the Prometheus set, which sounded fine to my ears.

[scallenger 483]

Yeah, I can see why many would skip this if they already have it in that case. Perhaps that is why it is such a low unit number. But I think diehard fans of it will definitely be happy with the changes from what I can see.

[Incanus 5,715]

Yeah of course from navigational point of view something like the breaking of the 18 minute final battle into separate cues makes it easier to get to your favouritr cue if you do not fancy a listen to the full cue or trying to remember where that cue began inside that massive track. And of course some people do concern themselves with presenting of all the cues separate so that might make them happy. And it is great they are selling the new set at a bargain price.  

[scallenger 483]

Yeah, for me, the splitting of the final battle was a big selling point. At 18 minutes, the combined version on the old set was just too damn long, and like you said, sometimes I only wanted to hear a certain section. Not only that, but not all of it was even crossfaded in the film (I think there is one moment where there is quite a long beat of silence before the music comes back into the film), making some of it unnaturally connect.

 

I just checked to guess at how this version's connecting of certain tracks instead will sound, and it will definitely flow. Can't confirm if they did indeed connect the same way in the film, but at least the connecting of certain tracks in this version makes sense, at least sonically.

 

Having "First Kiss" on its own again was wise, since it is definitely a nice little highlight of a track on its own, and on the old set, having it transition into a bold statement into the next cue made it quite a juxtaposition for a single track.

[crocodile 8,017]

So the changes are mostly cosmetic then. I like the idea of splitting the battle into smaller sections as the long version from Prometheus doesn't flow that well. Would like to see the booklet and read the notes, though. And the price is good.

 

Karol - on the fence