mrbellamy

The Cowboys.

I don't really see why it wouldn't be in the movie, but I'll be surprised if it's more than just something that passes by in the background.

I think the LOTR scores are Howard Shore's very best work, my favorite of the 21st century, and an obvious landmark in film music history, arguably the most recent work to hit such a high standard as to merit "all-time great" discussion. John Williams has surpassed them over his career with a handful of his scores, but I'm not totally sure I'd count Star Wars among them. They're close enough for it not to matter IMO, and at any rate, both are well-deserving of their acclaim. I've always been a little surprised that the LOTR scores have as many detractors as they do on here.

It's too bad you guys have such short attention spans!

Yeah, earlier in the week I just saw the Star Trek one. I'm kind of ignorant about Star Trek so I didn't participate, but when I came back on Friday, there were dozens of them. It just seemed like one of those random bursts of manic energy this place gets, so I didn't think anything of it and joined in.
Those of us who weren't bored with it instantly would have caught up soon enough and the whole thing would have died on its own, like the "Williams cues" threads. I do sympathize with people whose new posts in other threads were getting buried, though.

Auhhh I didn't get it! I didn't geeet it! I WASN'T NOOOMINATED! I got beaten out by Fellini!

In the world of Orga, blue is the color of melancholy. Yet the services I provide will put a blush back on anyone's cheek. I will change the color of your fairy for you. She will scream out: 'Oh yes! Oh God! Oh, yes! Oh, God! Oh, God!' She will make you a real boy for I will make her a real woman and all will be right with the world, because you held my hand and saved my brain so that once again my customers may ask for me by name: 'Gigolo Joe, what do you know?'

I don't see why these two projects couldn't be merged. #KGBFG.

I love that one. I think it's my favorite Fellini movie and maybe my favorite Rota score, or at least theme (the combination of his music and the boys walking along the beach is sublime). Also one of the great movie endings.

I think it means that Lana Del Rey is writing the score to Episode 7, clearly. She starts in September.

I think it means that Lana Del Rey is writing the score to Episode 7, clearly. She starts in September.

On Thursday June 12th, brass players from many of the major orchestras in the US (Cleveland, Philadelphia, New York, Boston, San Francisco, L.A., Detroit,many Chicago's orchestras are all represented) will gather in California as the "National Brass Ensemble" to perform a concert of music by the renaissance composer Gabrielli, which is exciting on it's own!
How does this relate to us? Apparently John Williams was commissioned to write a new work for brass especially for this occasion. I believe this performance is supposed to be recorded as well. This ought to be incredible. Check out the link!
http://gmc.sonoma.edu/event/2170779-national-brass-ensemble-in-concert

Now, I will too. It's your fault!Karol

Yeah, I think it'll depend on how many movies in his filmography continue to stick out in the public consciousness. If only Star Wars remains, then perhaps the general public at large will eventually forget who composed it. But if Jaws, ET, Indiana Jones, Jurassic Park, and/or Harry Potter stick around and the music continues to be remembered, then there's a chance that his name will stick in people's minds. I think that the fact that people still hum the Jaws theme will help a lot. Much like Bach, Mozart, or Beethoven's most famous motifs, it's already seeped into our musical vernacular, to the point where even people who have never seen Jaws know that the tune means "impending doom or danger." It's truly gotten to where it actually transcends the movie, which is so incredibly rare and special and I don't think that'll ever go away.
I know I'm speaking from personal bias, but I do think that there's something rather unique about Williams's filmography that will certainly keep his music alive, if not his name. There's just something about how the combination of his music and the movies touched on very primal or universal topics that captured people's imaginations on a massive worldwide scale, over and over again. I think it's telling that Williams retrospectives often won't even list the films, but rather those standalone ideas: "Outer space, sharks, aliens, dinosaurs, magic." His music is incredibly accessible and identifiable in that way. Even if those broad associations fade away, though, I really have no doubt that Star Wars, for sure, will join The Wizard of Oz as the kind of cinematic phenomenon that never really loses its power and whose iconography remains ubiquitous. People still know the songs from The Wizard of Oz, and likewise I agree with you that they'll still know the Star Wars themes. And I think there's a good chance that Williams's name will continue to be associated with the music more than Harold Arlen's, since composer names tend to get thrown around more than songwriters (unless they're also singers.) For some reason, "Over the Rainbow" can get by on its own esteem, but any mention of the Star Wars score typically comes with a "by John Williams" credit.
Aside from all that, it really doesn't hurt that his name couldn't be easier to remember or pronounce

I think he'll be like Tchaikovsky. Remembered for a few popular works and generally respected by classical circles, but ranked below more inventive composers.
In film circles however I think he'll always be a superstar

Yeah, I think it'll depend on how many movies in his filmography continue to stick out in the public consciousness. If only Star Wars remains, then perhaps the general public at large will eventually forget who composed it. But if Jaws, ET, Indiana Jones, Jurassic Park, and/or Harry Potter stick around and the music continues to be remembered, then there's a chance that his name will stick in people's minds. I think that the fact that people still hum the Jaws theme will help a lot. Much like Bach, Mozart, or Beethoven's most famous motifs, it's already seeped into our musical vernacular, to the point where even people who have never seen Jaws know that the tune means "impending doom or danger." It's truly gotten to where it actually transcends the movie, which is so incredibly rare and special and I don't think that'll ever go away.
I know I'm speaking from personal bias, but I do think that there's something rather unique about Williams's filmography that will certainly keep his music alive, if not his name. There's just something about how the combination of his music and the movies touched on very primal or universal topics that captured people's imaginations on a massive worldwide scale, over and over again. I think it's telling that Williams retrospectives often won't even list the films, but rather those standalone ideas: "Outer space, sharks, aliens, dinosaurs, magic." His music is incredibly accessible and identifiable in that way. Even if those broad associations fade away, though, I really have no doubt that Star Wars, for sure, will join The Wizard of Oz as the kind of cinematic phenomenon that never really loses its power and whose iconography remains ubiquitous. People still know the songs from The Wizard of Oz, and likewise I agree with you that they'll still know the Star Wars themes. And I think there's a good chance that Williams's name will continue to be associated with the music more than Harold Arlen's, since composer names tend to get thrown around more than songwriters (unless they're also singers.) For some reason, "Over the Rainbow" can get by on its own esteem, but any mention of the Star Wars score typically comes with a "by John Williams" credit.
Aside from all that, it really doesn't hurt that his name couldn't be easier to remember or pronounce

I still think Disney has yet to top those first five features.

That's only certain areas of Los Angeles.

Look into Michael Powell/Emeric Pressburger, for sure, if you haven't already. Particularly The Red Shoes, The Tales of Hoffman, and Oh Rosalinda!, as well as Powell's Bluebeard's Castle which I believe are all available on YouTube. They became fascinated by what Powell called "composed film," essentially cinematic ballet, where all the elements of a film are given individual attention to "dance" with the music and with each other, ideally creating a harmonious whole. If you can get your hands on the Criterion edition of Tales of Hoffman, Martin Scorsese's commentary gives a lot of great observations on this concept and how it's applied in that film throughout. Powell also talks about it in his autobiography A Life in Movies.
 
Also I probably don't have to mention Disney, who was incidentally a big influence on Powell/Pressburger. In general, I've found that animation offers a lot of opportunities for studying a variety of film/music relationships, because there is such freedom. Related to Disney's own influences, you might want to look into abstract and/or drawn-on-film artists who often use music in evocative ways, like Len Lye, who inspired the Toccata/Fugue sequence in Fantasia:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PgNr0IZRDE
 
Also Norman McLaren is a big inspiration for me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8uktqgKgw0
 
Also of course musicals, any and all of them, are perfect for any discussion of film being designed to music, rather than vice versa. I would say Stanley Donen and Vincente Minnelli are the touchstones for me...definitely watch Minnelli's The Band Wagon, if you haven't seen it before. Great film, some really amazing setpieces, but the "Girl Hunt" ballet sequence is particularly worth looking into for your thesis, I think:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0HNmHCKgH0
 
Also they're obviously not as prevalent as musicals, but the same would go for ballet or opera adaptations. As a suggestion, I think it might be interesting to compare Powell/Pressburger's Tales of Hoffman or something like Bergman's The Magic Flute with a filmed theater production and to see what differences and similarities there are in camera movement, lighting, composition, and editing. How they're using cinema to reflect the music, as opposed to pointing-and-shooting a camera at a stage. That might help you articulate some of your ideas.
 
And then silent movies can be really good for the reverse idea, considering there are so many examples out there of different scores being written for the same film. You can probably get a lot out of that, and it would be a clear way to illustrate your thesis, since there is such clarity and consistency to the film/music relationship with silents.
 
And for more modern examples, you could maybe go a little into how live concert settings have become such an overwhelmingly audiovisual experience e.g. the boys in my avatar, and I wouldn't overlook music videos and commercials, since they can probably give you a lot of insight into how the film/music relationship is taking shape today.
 
Oh, and since you mentioned Tarkovsky, have you read his book Sculpting in Time? That has a chapter with his thoughts on film music and how he felt it should be applied, and it's at times a counter-argument to your thesis, where he wonders if music is really necessary or even beneficial for film at all, so that could also be really useful. It'd also be easy to go back to that when using examples from his films.
 
Anyway, sorry that was such a mouthful, but I love this stuff too, and that's such an awesome idea for a thesis. Hope some of these suggestions help!

It was really checking out these three CDs from the library (probably just looking for Star Wars and Indiana Jones music) and listening to them on the CD player in my room that blew my mind. Kind of my Almost Famous/Tommy moment.



I probably already loved all the famous themes just from watching the movies, but I remember being pretty overwhelmed by the emotional statements I didn't quite realize he was capable of, like "Remembrances," "Face of Pan", the JFK prologue, "Hymn to the Fallen", as well as stuff that had the catchy melodies and big "capital letters" sound that I loved, like The Cowboys overture, "The Barrel Chase," "Jim's New Life," "The Banquet", the Midway march...etc.

It doesn't look like he spent more than 30 seconds on it, anyway.

Even his handwriting is full of surprises and mysteries to be uncovered!

They're all perfect! You're all cynical poo-heads!

It'll be interesting to see Scorsese working in an explicitly spiritual mode again. He hasn't really gone there since Kundun, and a subject like this from someone like him at the age he is now -- plus the fact that he's been wanting to make it for decades -- hopefully means that it'll turn out to be something special.

There's always slash fiction for that.