The Big Bad Star Trek XI Thread

[artyjeffrey 20]

Nero isn't a great villain, in the classic sense of that phrase ... but so what? How many genuinely great villains are there? Not that many. There are plenty of great movies, and legions of good ones, that get along just fine without having great villains.

As for the notion that Bana is lazy in the role, well, that's a lazy opinion, in my book. Check out the scene in which Bana is lying on a slab, looking up at the camera, waiting for the signal he knows he's about to receive telling him that the 25-year wait for Spock to appear is over. Bana is projecting so many different emotions during that moment that it's one of THE standout scenes in the movie for me. Sure, he gets few such moments, but that's not Bana's fault.

Yes, perhaps most of the blame rests with the screenwriter(s). BTW, I thought Khan's overblown dialogue was a perfect counterweight to Shatner's over-the-top delivery.

I think, in the end, the experience of seeing the classic crew characters together makes up for any weaknesses. For the first time in a LONG time, we were able to see Kirk perform some intense physical action scenes!

Oh, and I got a tinge of nerdy satisfaction with the shot of Kirk looking out the porthole of the shuttle and seeing the Enterprise reflected in the window. About a year ago, I told my brother that we would see that shot. There was no way that a Star Trek movie could resist doing that (just like in Indy IV, when Shia Ledouche picked up Indy's hat and almost put it on).

[Charlie Brigden 7]

I only counted the four-note motif once, when they bring Pike back, which I believe is the end of 'Nero Death Experience'.

On the whole, I didn't notice a whole lot of stuff that's not on the album, aside from the main title and some of the Vulcan bits.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

By the way just how many times have they "ejected the core" in ST? Just what the hell is the core and why does it always help, and why can they always stand to lose it?

[Charlie Brigden 7]

The core is basically the thing that powers the warp engines. It seems very unstable a lot of the time, but if they eject it they can still function on impulse power. They've previously ejected it in GENERATIONS and INSURRECTION I think, not sure about the TV shows.

By the way, did anyone notice how warp technology seems to have increased? From Earth to Vulcan in about a minute.

[Maxxie 1]

So is there like a Main Theme for the new Star Trek film? One that you can get into? And is the score any good as a whole?

[Charlie Brigden 7]

If you read this thread, you'll know. And knowing is half the battle.

[Maxxie 1]

I not reading through 58 pages. A simple 'yes' or 'no' would've sufficed.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

I'm not telling.

[Maxxie 1]

I'm not telling.

[SF1_freeze 131]

The film is not bad, certainly better than the last two but the score was so dissapointing. The main theme is bad and isn't able to make you feel anything for the enterprise. There is NO comparison to the 10 classes better Jerry Goldsmith theme (which is not in the movie, damn you Giacchino!)

The other themes are not memorable at all for me. (I have just seen the film and didn't listen to the soundtrack release and never will)

Overall it all sounds cheap and mediaventure like to me. There is no orchestral volume and power in it. I never thought Giacchino would deliver such a bad score after the great Lost scoring and his other movie efforts.

I hate to say that but even Hans Zimmer would have made a better score than that one. He would at least have created a good main theme...

(Giacchino lost a lot of respect from me but in Lost he still nails it. Strange world, he works harder for a (admittable great) tv show than for a 300 Mio dollar blockbuster movie)

[Charlie Brigden 7]

This is kind of a multi-thread reply, as it's referencing something Joey said in the movie thread:

For me, the scene where we first see the Enterprise, both score and film, was my favourite part. As soon as it came on screen and the theme kicked in (from 'Enterprising Young Men'), I squeezed my wife's hand really tight, and she did the same as me. It was just a perfect Star Trek moment.

And while I was initially disappointed to find out the Goldsmith theme would not be included when Giacchino first talked about the score, I do not think it would work with this film at all. But the score has really, really grown with multiple listens. I'm not about to say it's TMP quality, but I'm loving it.

[Williamsfan301 11]

By the way just how many times have they "ejected the core" in ST? Just what the hell is the core and why does it always help, and why can they always stand to lose it?

Well, if I'm understanding Star Trek physics right, the "core" is where the matter and antimatter collide to power the warp drive, and the rest of the ship (that big blue streaking chamber in ST:TNG, for example). The core, through the help of the dilithium crystals controls and channels what is an otherwise extremely dangerous, but powerful reaction. The warp core is also protected by powerful magnetic fields to help contain the reaction as well as coolant. The core becomes unstable when one of those containment methods no longer works, causing a breach and an explosion that will destroy the entire ship. Because of the use of antimatter in the reaction, all of this happens extremely fast, so a dump has to happen within minutes. The ship can then run on battery power. It is also possible to just dump the antimatter to prevent a breach, assuming it's dump it in time.

This actually has some grounding in reality. Back in the 1940's it was proposed to us a controlled matter/antimatter reaction to power rockets into space. Only a small amount of antimatter would be needed to make the reaction work. Antimatter has to be made and even if you combined the GNP of every nation on earth, you still wouldn't have enough money to create enough antimatter to fill our needs.

Wow, I watched way too much of this crap when I was a kid.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Wow thanks for the explanation. For some reason I have vague memories from my childhood of every other episode of TNG ending with someone proposing they eject the core, and Geordi does it.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

By the way just how many times have they "ejected the core" in ST? Just what the hell is the core and why does it always help, and why can they always stand to lose it?

Well, if I'm understanding Star Trek physics right, the "core" is where the matter and antimatter collide to power the warp drive, and the rest of the ship (that big blue streaking chamber in ST:TNG, for example). The core, through the help of the dilithium crystals controls and channels what is an otherwise extremely dangerous, but powerful reaction. The warp core is also protected by powerful magnetic fields to help contain the reaction as well as coolant. The core becomes unstable when one of those containment methods no longer works, causing a breach and an explosion that will destroy the entire ship. Because of the use of antimatter in the reaction, all of this happens extremely fast, so a dump has to happen within minutes. The ship can then run on battery power. It is also possible to just dump the antimatter to prevent a breach, assuming it's dump it in time.

This actually has some grounding in reality. Back in the 1940's it was proposed to us a controlled matter/antimatter reaction to power rockets into space. Only a small amount of antimatter would be needed to make the reaction work. Antimatter has to be made and even if you combined the GNP of every nation on earth, you still wouldn't have enough money to create enough antimatter to fill our needs.

Wow, I watched way too much of this crap when I was a kid.

The singularity is about to explode, can you reverse the polarity??!

[Trent B 337]

Sorta a bit off topic, don't forget the magnetic interlocks which keeps the reaction of matter and anti-matter apart were ruptured on the Enterprise-D (in Generations) after she was in battle with the Duras' Bird Of Prey which in turn caused the coolant leak in the engine core and caused it to explode. Too bad the Duras' didn't live around long enough to see that they actually destroyed the Enterprise-D.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

actually its good they died because that was such a weenie way to destroy the Enterprise. No way in hell that would ever have happened, just another reason Generations is a seriously flawed film.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

actually its good they died because that was such a weenie way to destroy the Enterprise. No way in hell that would ever have happened, just another reason Generations is a seriously flawed film.

I didn't realize you were such an expert on 24th century starship mechanics.

[Trent B 337]

I didn't know he was either Charlie. It's made up technology Joe, the Enterprise-D was seriously damaged and with enough damage I could see that happening. After all Geordie did say, "It must have been that last torpedo." "LaForge to bridge, I got a problem down here, the magnetic interlocks have been ruptured, I...", cue explosion then the coolant leak. Things became unstable and which led one thing after another.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

It was a stupid way to destroy the Enterprise D. That thing fought off Borg cubes.

[Damien F 1,742]

On the whole, I didn't notice a whole lot of stuff that's not on the album, aside from the main title and some of the Vulcan bits.

One of the few pieces of action music that really interested me in the cinema was the fight on the drilling platform. It contains an excellent quote of the main theme as the camera moves around Sulu , but that cue isn't on the album.

[Maxxie 1]

On the whole, I didn't notice a whole lot of stuff that's not on the album, aside from the main title.

The Main Title ISN'T on the CD?! WTF?!

What's "01 Star Trek" then? A suite?

[Charlie Brigden 7]

It's the opening logos.

I can understand the main title not being on there, as it's only about twenty seconds long. There is no credit sequence, you get the opening logos (Paramount/Spyglass/Bad Robot) which 'Star Trek' scores, the scene with the Kelvin, which uses 'Nailin' The Kelvin' and 'Labor of Love' and then the one title credit, which just says STAR TREK. No opening credits to speak of, it all comes at the end.

[King Mark 3,631]

It's the Paramount/Bad Robot "logo" cue

General comment:

this film is not "overrated" the way The Dark Knight was last year

[Neimoidian 14]

It's the Paramount/Bad Robot "logo" cue

General comment:

this film is not "overrated" the way The Dark Knight was last year

But then again it's not nearly as good as TDK was...

[King Mark 3,631]

I think it's much better

[Charlie Brigden 7]

I think they're equally very good and I don't really want to compare them as they're two totally different beasts. Though if there is somewhere TDK excels, it's the writing quality. But who cares, I greatly enjoy both of them.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I think it's much better

I thought it was certainly more entertaining.

[John Crichton 4]

By the way just how many times have they "ejected the core" in ST? Just what the hell is the core and why does it always help, and why can they always stand to lose it?

Well, if I'm understanding Star Trek physics right, the "core" is where the matter and antimatter collide to power the warp drive, and the rest of the ship (that big blue streaking chamber in ST:TNG, for example). The core, through the help of the dilithium crystals controls and channels what is an otherwise extremely dangerous, but powerful reaction. The warp core is also protected by powerful magnetic fields to help contain the reaction as well as coolant. The core becomes unstable when one of those containment methods no longer works, causing a breach and an explosion that will destroy the entire ship. Because of the use of antimatter in the reaction, all of this happens extremely fast, so a dump has to happen within minutes. The ship can then run on battery power. It is also possible to just dump the antimatter to prevent a breach, assuming it's dump it in time.

But this doesn't touch on one of Trek's most overused cliches: "The ejection system's offline!"

[Maxxie 1]

It's the opening logos.

I can understand the main title not being on there, as it's only about twenty seconds long. There is no credit sequence, you get the opening logos (Paramount/Spyglass/Bad Robot) which 'Star Trek' scores, the scene with the Kelvin, which uses 'Nailin' The Kelvin' and 'Labor of Love' and then the one title credit, which just says STAR TREK. No opening credits to speak of, it all comes at the end.

Ah right I see. Not too bad then, but for the sake of about 20 seconds I can't believe it's not on there.

[Neimoidian 14]

It's the opening logos.

I can understand the main title not being on there, as it's only about twenty seconds long. There is no credit sequence, you get the opening logos (Paramount/Spyglass/Bad Robot) which 'Star Trek' scores, the scene with the Kelvin, which uses 'Nailin' The Kelvin' and 'Labor of Love' and then the one title credit, which just says STAR TREK. No opening credits to speak of, it all comes at the end.

Ah right I see. Not too bad then, but for the sake of about 20 seconds I can't believe it's not on there.

As it was said, main title is scored with the opening of Enterprising Young Men or a very close rendition. I wouldn't be surprised if simply it was tracked.

[Ollie 1,059]

Saw the film last night and it was fantastic.

It's in the top 5 of all 11 films as far as I'm concerned. To quote a statement from Daniel Schweiger's review; "Just imagine if Star Wars Episode One was indeed as good as you’d hoped for, and you’ll get the adrenalin rush of what Abrams has accomplished here with tons of fanboy love."

Link to review.

http://www.buzzine.com/2009/05/live-anew-and-prosper/

This film takes characters we've cared about and treats them with respect. I thought everyone did a great job with the roles, especially Urban as McCoy & Quinto as Spock.

Where to begin? Visually the film was fantastic, I love the design of the Enterprise and I kinda liked the "new" design of engineering. It gives one the feeling that even with advances in technology sometimes it's just the plain grittiness that gets stuff done.

I thought Bana was very good, I thought the actor who played Kirk's dad was good. Of course it was a treat to see Nimoy although his voice was somewhat distracting, it appears Leonard has some new dentures and I wasn't the only one to notice it.

I really don't have any problems with the film, all the ones that were mentioned by people really weren't noticeable or distracting.

Giacchino's music fit the film like a glove, if any one is wondering the first cue on the CD covers the Paramount, Spyglass and Bad Robot logos. The music that plays over the Star Trek title after the Kelvin sequence appears to be either tracked from "Enterprising Young Men" or seperately recorded. I think Chris Tilton posted at FSM that there were several versions recorded for that title sequence.

The Kobiyashi Maru sequence was hilarious, and neat to see who designed the no win scenerio. Also saw Mr. Bulk. Did anyone else realize what

uniform Admiral Pike

was wearing? Also Mr. Sulu's first moments had me chuckling. And yes I got goosebumps when we first see the Enterprise with Giacchino's music going full force.

I'm a huge fan of the original series and for those that have doubts, don't worry, this film and the franchise is treated with the utmost respect. As Joe said, bring on Star Trek II.

Oh yeah, I know this film has to be good because my daughter, of all people, liked the film. If she likes a sci-fi film then trust me, it's good.

[Trent B 337]

Well looks like my dad and I are gonna go see the movie today. Gonna go to the 5:30 showing.

[Wojo 2,453]

Wow. Vosk's going to see it before me. I don't think I'll be seeing it before Tuesday at the earliest.

[Trent B 337]

Well I still suspect the theaters will be a bit packed today with it being grand opening for the film, hopefully it won't be too packed. I am sort of surprised my dad said he would want to go see it today since it's opening day. Ah well the sooner the better, I want to see if my opinion about the film is going to be turned around.

Edit: Scratch that idea...now my dad said he's too tired so looks like next weekend will be the date.

[Neimoidian 14]

To quote a statement from Daniel Schweiger's review; "Just imagine if Star Wars Episode One was indeed as good as you’d hoped for, and you’ll get the adrenalin rush of what Abrams has accomplished here with tons of fanboy love."

I don't have to imagine, I experienced Episode One exactly the way you did with this Star Trek. I guess I am the lucky one.

[Williamsfan301 11]

can you reverse the polarity??!

Boy, was that just not Scotty's solution to everything in the OS?

[John Crichton 4]

Did anyone else realize what

uniform Admiral Pike

was wearing?

Yes! I was going to mention that and I forgot, it was

Kirk's admiral's uniform from TMP, with some minor adjustments.

I have to mention in that vein just how damn good Bruce Greenwood was too. He was the one that got to work more or less from scratch and made Pike a first rate captain and great mentor for Kirk.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

I've always liked Greenwood, ever since I saw him play Dennis Wilson in a Beach Boys biopic about fifteen years ago.

[King Mark 3,631]

I haven't heard an orchestral score mixed so loud in a long time and it makes it seem better than it actually is because you feel the music .

If JJ abrams is a "Star Wars" fan...maybe he noticed how the terrible mix of the Prequel Williams scores hurt the films.

If Ben Burrt worked on this film he must have been told to stay far away from the mixing room

[Jacob 0]

To quote a statement from Daniel Schweiger's review; "Just imagine if Star Wars Episode One was indeed as good as you’d hoped for, and you’ll get the adrenalin rush of what Abrams has accomplished here with tons of fanboy love."

I don't have to imagine, I experienced Episode One exactly the way you did with this Star Trek. I guess I am the lucky one.

I did as well. Of course, I was only 12 at the time...

Doesn't quite hold up as well now.

Glad to hear that the real Trek fans are pleased with their new movie.

[Trent B 337]

I haven't heard an orchestral score mixed so loud in a long time and it makes it seem better than it actually is because you feel the music .

If JJ abrams is a "Star Wars" fan...maybe he noticed how the terrible mix of the Prequel Williams scores hurt the films.

If Ben Burrt worked on this film he must have been told to stay far away from the mixing room

It would be interesting to hear the truth if Burtt did work on the film or not.

Anyways I was at Wally World tonight and saw the playmates toy for the new Enterprise, I couldn't resist I picked it up. I came home and opened it up and upon closer inspection the design over all is not bad. I guess I just had to see a physical deal of it in person. I think it's something that in time will grow on me.

[aviazn 273]

It's the opening logos.

I can understand the main title not being on there, as it's only about twenty seconds long. There is no credit sequence, you get the opening logos (Paramount/Spyglass/Bad Robot) which 'Star Trek' scores, the scene with the Kelvin, which uses 'Nailin' The Kelvin' and 'Labor of Love' and then the one title credit, which just says STAR TREK. No opening credits to speak of, it all comes at the end.

Ah right I see. Not too bad then, but for the sake of about 20 seconds I can't believe it's not on there.

I agree. I think it's closer to a minute, as it includes all the buildup ostinatos heard on "Enterprising Young Men" up through the main theme; and even though its short, when it comes in after "Labor of Love" as heard in the film, it really makes an impact. The material is still represented in "Enterprising Young Men", but that moment is lost... I may splice out the first minute of" Enterprising Young Men" later to stick after "Labor of Love", but for now, I've been switching the order of "Enterprising Young Men" and "Hella Bar Talk".

[John Crichton 4]

If Ben Burrt worked on this film he must have been told to stay far away from the mixing room

It would be interesting to hear the truth if Burtt did work on the film or not.

Burtt did work on the film. He provided some SFX work, what he does best, but had no say in the final sound mix. It's no secret, it was all reported months ago.

[Trent B 337]

Ah thanks for the info John, I didn't know that. Well glad to know that Burtt had no say so in the final mix of the film. Then I think it's safe to assume that KM is right on the nose with this. Abrams probably knew of Burtt's reputation for mixing the music too low in the Star Wars Prequels and told him that all he's doing is just providing sfx for the film.

Too bad Lucas didn't have those type of balls to stand up to Burtt when doing the Prequels.

[Ollie 1,059]

There was one SPX scene I loved, it appeared to be tip of the hat to TWOK. The scene when the Enterprise comes out of warp near Saturn and rises through the clouds on Titan, much like the she did in the Mutara Nebula.

[John Crichton 4]

As I mentioned in my "review" (as in stream of conciousness thoughts at 2 AM) I loved the majestic wide shots, like the shuttles flying away from the Narada before the main title and the torpedoes heading toward Spock in the Jellyfish. And as you mentioned, some lovely shots of a very lovely ship. Seeing her on the big screen, it's as close to the perfection of the TMP-era Enterprise as is humanly possible.

[Bryant Burnette 654]

By the way just how many times have they "ejected the core" in ST? Just what the hell is the core and why does it always help, and why can they always stand to lose it?

I loved the movie, but I would say the science is moronic at best. NOTHING can escape a black hole.

By the way, did anyone notice how warp technology seems to have increased? From Earth to Vulcan in about a minute.

I think there's an unspecified time gap in there. Kirk has been tranquilized, and when he wakes up McCoy is in a different uniform, so obviously some time has passed.

The main theme is bad and isn't able to make you feel anything for the enterprise.

And a double dumb-ass on you!

It would be interesting to hear the truth if Burtt did work on the film or not.

Well, since they gave him a credit, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that yes, he certainly did work on the movie.

[King Mark 3,631]

The only moment of really great scoring is Kirk's birth

The main theme is bad and isn't able to make you feel anything for the enterprise.

And a double dumb-ass on you!

you felt something because because it was loud...it's still not a great theme. It's also still better than a loud MV power anthem ,which we are too accustomed to nowadays

[Bryant Burnette 654]

Thank you, Mark, for reading my mind for me and telling me why that happened. I was getting a headache and a nosebleed from trying to manage it on my own. Or is that from straining too hard on the toilet? I'm too stupid to know.

[John Crichton 4]

There's times that I really like the theme (mainly for its more intimate, personal nature), and other times where I think it's not enough. It's going to be a while before I settle on a solid opinion of the score. It's a shame pretty much none of the Vulcan music made it onto the CD.

I will say right now that by far my favorite part is To Bodly Go and the arrangement of the Courage TOS theme at the start of the End Credits.