The Official CLASSICAL Thread

[Composer_Fan 2]

I just listened to Mahler's Symphony No. 1 and 2. WOW! I was really blown away, and slightly upset that I'd never heard the pieces until now! I was able to check out the score at the library and follow along, which makes me appreciate the piece even more.

[ChrisAfonso 186]

Nightscape, is this the suite form of the "Mandarin"? Ending with the frenzied dance chase (which had more than a few influences on Goldsmith's "Mummy", I daresay)? If so you have to check out the full version of the ballet, it's not that much longer (half an hour or so), but the elaborate ending scene (accompanying the eventual murder of the mandarin) that is is really great music, is missing from the suite.

[nightscape94 965]

Yes, that's the one. I'll see if I can get my hands on the full ballet.

[Saxbabe 28]

I don't have the full Miraculous Mandarin either, just the suite, the recent LA Phil recording. That made me very much want to hear the complete ballet, it's really neat (and wild) music. I've been listening to Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra lately which is just great. The Finale is my favorite part.

Mahler 2nd: Man, what an INCREDIBLE piece of work. The Finale is transcendent, and the other mvmts are fantastic too, the opening of the symphony, the devilish Scherzo, great stuff.

I personally love his 5th and 6th symphonies, ooh and the 3rd, gorgeous and apocalyptic stuff with super brass writing, the Finale of the 6th (with the 3 hammer blows, as intended before Mahler got superstitious) is incredible. I always think of the parallels between he and Strauss when I hear that because of that frequent use of a major chord turning quickly to minor as in the opening of Also Sprach Zarathustra.

I have heard Zander's recording of the 6th, it's very good, and the discussion disc is excellent, those are on Telarc and highly recommended to learn more about the symphonies. Lots of good information and clearly presented.

Sibelius 2nd: So beautiful and ultra romantic, it actually reminds me in the sweeping Finale of Tchaikovsky's Romeo and Juliet Overture. Sibelius was a truly amazing composer, one of my very favorites right now.

His 5th is also a must hear, this is the radiant Finale:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLOig_N14Dg

And Kullervo and the Lemminkainen Legends are awesome too, colorful and lusty early works both based on the Kalevela. I enjoy hearing the large male choir singing in Finnish, and you can't beat a story where the hero accidentally makes love to his sister...

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

Also, Tolkien fans can imagine it as music for The Children of Hurin.

[Romão 2,274]

Which full cycle of The Ring would you guys recommend?

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

Most recommend the Solti. I find (from what little I've heard) it focuses far too much on individual highlights and neglects the larger structure. Not very coherent, I thought. Which is why I love my Karajan box.

The Böhm set seems to be quite good, too, and cheaper, if you're not willing to afford the Karajan (and I think the Solti is even more expensive).

On DVD, the most interesting one seems to be the Boulez/Chereau. The most famous staging, in any case, and a great cast. Though the Schenk-directed Levine version seems to follow Wagner's stage notes word by word (judging from the cover pictures), but the musical performance apparently isn't a standout one, from what I've read.

Has Barenboim recorded this yet? I guess we might be getting one from Thielemann, too, sooner or later.

Marian - looking forwards to the first two installments of the new Ring cycle at the local State Opera.

[Romão 2,274]

What about Der Fliegende Holländer and Tannhauser? Any recommendations?

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

I have two Holländers on CD. The 1961 live recording from Bayreuth conducted by Sawallisch was my first and I got very used to it, so it took a while to put it in perspective. It wouldn't be my overall first recommendation now, but it's certainly a good one, with lots of live energy, and and absolutely stunning Anja Silja as Senta. The rather new Barenboim recording has the great Falk Struckmann as Holländer and a spot-on Peter Seiffert as Erik. Choir and orchestra are brilliant, and the recording quality is obviously much better than on the old Sawallisch set. Villazon's Steuermann sounds beautiful, but has a very strong accent. The really big downside on this recording is Jane Eaglen's Senta. Not only does she seem to have a rather hard time getting through the part, she also (in my opinion, at least) doesn't have a fitting voice for the role to begin with.

Also, Sawallisch's recording uses the traditional 3 act version of the score (although with the ballad in its original key, not the lower, transposed version that was common before it was introduced around the time of the recording), whereas Barenboim's has the tracks listed for 3 acts, but actually uses the scene transitions of the original single act version, which means a few nice bits of music that are not in the Sawallisch version, but a lack of two even shorter bits of that one.

I'm happy to have both. I'd recommend the Barenboim, but you'd need a second version to hear a decent Senta - and Silja is just brilliant there.

Regarding Tannhäuser, I only have the Barenboim recording of that, which seems good, but I haven't really found the right access that opera yet.

And if you're about to ask for a good Lohengrin, Kempe's recording with the Vienna Philharmonic (released on EMI's GROC series) rocks.

[Jeshopk 8]

I am just chiming in to recommend Arthur Honegger's Pacific 231. A very wonderful impressionisic masterpiece that describes his first experience on a train (allegedly).

Describes Honegger ""I have always loved locomotives passionately. For me they are living creatures and I love them as others love women or horses."

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

The Böhm set seems to be quite good, too, and cheaper, if you're not willing to afford the Karajan (and I think the Solti is even more expensive).

Having finally made my way through the first two parts of the Böhm set now, I'm impressed. Overall (so far at least), this can very well stand alongside with the Karajan. There are some bits where I think Karajan has an extra edge (like the Schicksalsmotiv statement in Walküre), but there are also moments, particularly in the brass, where he goes further than Karajan. And all that without ever losing focus of the "big picture" - far ahead of the various Solti snippets I've heard so far.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

I've been studying the Rach preludes and Etudes-tableux lately. Love, love love. I can't wait to sink my teeth (or fingers) into them!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

How does and study music, and more importantly, why would one do so?

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Because I'm studying music at uni, and my instrument is piano. So I'm assimilating as much piano repertoire as I can.

[Joe Brausam 214]

The Böhm set seems to be quite good, too, and cheaper, if you're not willing to afford the Karajan (and I think the Solti is even more expensive).

Having finally made my way through the first two parts of the Böhm set now, I'm impressed. Overall (so far at least), this can very well stand alongside with the Karajan. There are some bits where I think Karajan has an extra edge (like the Schicksalsmotiv statement in Walküre), but there are also moments, particularly in the brass, where he goes further than Karajan. And all that without ever losing focus of the "big picture" - far ahead of the various Solti snippets I've heard so far.

The Bayrueth set that has been released (fairly) recently is also very good, I've heard. Also, there is a standalone Walkure set done by the LSO that is quite good.

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

What Bayreuth set? The Böhms are live recording from Bayreuth (1967), but not the only ones available.

[Joe Brausam 214]

What Bayreuth set? The Böhms are live recording from Bayreuth (1967), but not the only ones available.

Actually I think thats the one I meant, the name of the conductor slipped my mind for a while...

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

I think Barenboim's relatively new recordings are also from Bayreuth, albeit not live.

[Romão 2,274]

Well, I gave in and bought the Solti cycle, but for a bargain price of 45 €. I must say I'm quite impressed with singers and sound and really can't find any real fault with this set. The finale of Die Walkure is awe inspiring. What faults do you find with this recording, Marian? The Karajan was just too expensive.

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

Usually the Solti is the (slightly) more expensive of the two. I'd really like to hear the Solti full-length sometime, and it's especially lauded for it's great soloists (something I can't really verify from the bits I've heard, but the cast certainly looks great).

What I don't like about the pieces I've heard so far, and they seem consistent enough in this to judge the whole interpretation, is the preference of bombast over a strong structural arch. Solti does great things with individual moments, but it always seems to come at the expense of the larger buildup. And at least to me (after all, I'm a Bruckner nut ), a strongly built 10 minute section is much more rewarding than a jumpy one with individual, but all too brief, highlights.

Böhm fares far better in that regard (actually producing some stronger highlights than Karajan *without* sacrificing the greater context), although in at least some passages of Siegfried and Götterdämmerung, Karajan still has the upper hand here. Böhm's GD coda didn't make me cry.

[Romão 2,274]

Well, I'm still not that familiar with the whole 14 hours of the cycle, so my judgement isn't the most valid. This thing is just so damn dense that it is indeed a lot to absorb I'll try to study the cycle a bit more and give the Bohm set a listen.

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

Oh, I'd say one single Ring is enough for one or two years. But I do suggest you listen to other versions once you've sorted out the basics (there's plenty of stuff to learn in there for years or probably decades). And by all means, see it live if you get a good chance.

[nightscape94 965]

Just came back from a Philly Orchestra concert. On the program was Martinu's "Toccata e due canzoni", Mendelssohn's Violin Concerto and Brahms' Symphony No. 2.

Great concert with Jiri Belohlavek conducting and Philly's own Sarah Chang playing the violin solo.

Tim

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

I have a question, what rendition of Gershwin's Rhapsody in Blue would you guys recommend? I'm only familiar with the James Levine and Bruce Broughton versions on Fantasia 2000 and one by the Slovak Philharmonic under Libor Pesek...

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

The old Bernstein recordings are fun because Bernstein himself performs the piano part. What I really recommend though is the original version by Rattle/London Sinfonietta/Donohoe. It takes a bit of getting used to, because the orchestrations are more sparse and less "romantic", but once you get over that, you realise is has much more drive.

[pixie_twinkle 48]

To be honest I don't think the Ring makes all that much sense without the accompanying visuals, after all that's how it was intended. I have the Solti 14-disc set which is fantastic, but I think the ULTIMATE Ring cycle is the James Levine DVD version. The soloists are superb, the visuals are spectacular, and it's just so exciting to see action unfold as you listen to the incredible music. With a composition as dense and rich and dare one say gruelling as the Ring, it really helps to see the story. It beats the hell out of following along with the libretto which is what I used to do with my Solti set.

By the way, a friend of mine bought the Solti set when it first came out on CD (back then it was a 16-disc set). He saw Solti give a live concert and went backstage afterwards to get Solti to sign all the CD booklets! I'm guessing that set must be worth a small fortune now!

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

That's cool. I think the Ring works very well without visuals, at least when you've seen it once or a couple of times. I did find it hard to get into most of the four operas before experiencing it live.

I do want to see the Levine Ring. I want to hear it, but even more I want to see Schenk's staging.

[Romão 2,274]

I think the staging actually pulls the operas down. Listening to the music alone gives you a sense of infinity and scale and realism that no stage can capture. Cinema would be a great medium for this opera.

[pixie_twinkle 48]

Merkel, please check out the Levine Ring cycle with the Schenk staging. It's quite spectacular. We're not talking a few potted plants and a fake tree here, we're talking massive sets, incredible lighting, and some spectacular backdrops. It's very cinematic.

[Romão 2,274]

This one?

[pixie_twinkle 48]

That's the one. And if you enlarge the DVD cover you'll get an idea of how impressive the stage sets are.

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

I still say they should use advanced projection techniques for Ring stagings.

And I'm still curious and mildly worried how Bechtolf's new Ring stagings in Vienna will turn out. But I'll know in a few weeks (at least as far as Walküre is concerned).

[Saxbabe 28]

Thread resurrection! Marian, how was the new staging of Walküre?

We are playing Rhapsody in Blue at a concert in February, a new transcription for wind ensemble of the final orchestral version. So I am looking for new recordings as well. Will definitely check out Rattle. Can't believe how many versions of Rhapsody in Blue there have been since it was first created. Like other well-known pieces, the original was actually rather far from the piece we know today.

So...any other fans of Bartok and Lutoslawski around? I just got a CD of the two Concertos for Orchestra (not the new Cinncinati one, but the older Cleveland one), and really love it. I already knew the Bartok Concerto and have a few other recordings of it, but the Lutoslawski Concerto, I have come to like as much, or perhaps even more. Seriously, you have to hear it, it's an incredible piece. Highly recommended for film music lovers.

Most all I've heard of Lutoslawski's I have loved so far, especially his 3rd and 4tn Symphonies, his Paganini Variations, and oooh, the Cello Concerto. Anyone else familiar with his work?

[Marcus 390]

Ah, good old Witold!

Yes, big fan, and I'm actually probably more a fan of Lutoslawski than Bartok...

Do you know the Lutoslawski string quartet?

And which version of the Paganini Variations do you know? There's also a fantastic (original) 2 piano version.

A great, great composer, and a wonderful orchestrator. Such economy and taste...

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

Ah , good old Bela!

His Concerto for Orchestra is one of my all time favorites.

Lutoslawski never opened to me.(And I've played it a lot)

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

I should dig out what little Bartok I have again.

Marian, how was the new staging of Walküre?

Oooh, brilliant! Outstanding cast (down to the last single valkyrie) - in fact, the overall best cast I've ever heard live (in any opera). There was no one who wasn't at least very good. Welser-Möst's conducting was outstanding, rather in the vein of Böhm's classic recording. He kept the orchestra down well enough that I could actually understand nearly every single word of text during the first act (and I never can that, least of all in a Wagner work). And the Philharmonic were in top shape (they seldom are with Wagner, I've heard some horrible sounds from them at other times). Bechtolf's staging was mostly very good as well.

Overall, one of my best opera experiences, and a really great Walküre. I haven't dared to listen to my Karajan or Böhm discs since, but I don't think they can be much better than this.

Last week, I saw a great Meistersinger performance, with Thielemann conducting a stellar cast. Very good, and a mindbogglingly awesome staging by Otto Schenk (which has been around since the 70s, but since they haven't played this opera here in years, I'd never seen it before). Overall, it couldn't quite compare to Walküre, but it did suffer from a not very good replacement singer for Walther because Botha (a perfect Siegmund in December) was ill.

It's a great season for opera here. Can't wait for Siegfried.

[Marcus 390]

Ah , good old Bela!

His Concerto for Orchestra is one of my all time favorites.

Lutoslawski never opened to me.(And I've played it a lot)

Really?

Well, he does have his boring moments, I suppose, and sometimes it can sound rather grey and dull-ish, and I'm not always a fan of his sense of form and structure.

I, too, like the Bartok concerto for orchestra, and much else he has written, but for me, there's something about his lyrical angularity that never really quite grabs me, or at least not very often...

Oh well...

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

I know what you mean by " his lyrical angularity". Even in his concerto for orchestra there are some parts that I'm not happy with

but when it comes to those bold and glorious parts of that piece, it is just...amazing.

Almost in the end of the Finale there is one part (after the chaos) where orchestra suddenly bursts to the full glory in the

command of the lead trumpet , this part never failed to give me goosebumps...

btw anyone ever heard the similarity between the bassoon duet in the 2.mov.(Giuoco Delle Coppie) and bassoon duet in E.T.'s halloween <_<

[Joe Brausam 214]

I'm very seriously considering dropping the money on the Levine/Metropolitan opera Ring dvd set. There is as much critisism for that set as there is praise out there but for the money it seems like the best choice. Even more so - I want to see the "classic" interpretation of it rather than the more modernly staged ones.

I'm also ordering book this week regarding Parsifal as the fifth Ring opera - it should be an interesting read!

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

I'm very seriously considering dropping the money on the Levine/Metropolitan opera Ring dvd set. There is as much critisism for that set as there is praise out there but for the money it seems like the best choice. Even more so - I want to see the "classic" interpretation of it rather than the more modernly staged ones.

I really want to see it now, too - after seeing Schenk's Meistersinger, I have to see what he did with the Ring. Even when listening to an opera on CD, I usually have images of some sort of "extended" opera stage in my mind. But during the second act of Meistersinger I actually forgot that I wasn't really standing in ancient Nürnberg.

[Saxbabe 28]

I always planned to get those DVDs but never have gotten around to it.

I saw those performances broadcast on TV ca. 1993 and that was the turning point that got me into Wagner. I was floored, I couldn't believe someone could create such a thing as the Ring.

I'd absolutely love to see some of the Ring live, or any Wagner for that matter...I especially have a goal to see Tristan and Isolde. I did see a concert performance of Der Fliegende Hollander when I was in the Netherlands, with a Belgian opera orchestra. It was amazing. The chorus was comprised of big bearded beer-drinking Belgian guys and they shook the house!

It must be something to live in Vienna, I wish so much I lived somewhere close to a big cultural center. The closest we have (though not so close) is Houston, which is nice and everything, but can be variable as far as quality.

The opera here hasn't had anything I've been interested in for a while and is terribly expensive. But students can go to the symphony for cheap and I have heard a couple of good concerts there this year, one including Zemlinsky's Lyric Symphony, which was cool because it was being recorded for a new CD on the Naxos label, so the hall was set up with tons of microphones.

But the outstanding one was Berlioz' Symphonie Fantastique conducted by Charles Dutoit with the UBS Verbier Festival Orchestra, an international youth group, averaging early 20s. They were mindbogglingly good, I was blown away by how well they played and how they threw themselves into it. The youth orchestras these days are really impressive.

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

It must be something to live in Vienna, I wish so much I lived somewhere close to a big cultural center.

Oh absolutely. On good days, the State Opera has world-class productions. The tickets are really expensive; there's student tickets for around 10 euros which you can buy immediately before a performance, but you don't get them once you're 26 or 27 (though they don't mention this fact), and for non-students you can sometimes get tickets for 30 euros one day before the performance. But with an average sale of over 99% of available tickets, you rarely get any of these for the big productions. If you get them, they're top seats though; student tickets are simply the best tickets that are still available, though I think the €30 tickets are "only" from the 2nd category. Plenty of 3rd row seats or first-rate box seats to be had that way, if you have the time to stand in row and the luck to have these tickets available for your performance of choice.

Otherwise, there are the standing tickets. €3.50 for the center ones, which are better than any mid-range seats, and you can get them any day. Obviously, they involve a lot of standing, though, and not just during the performance, but also for a few hours before that, if don't want to stand at the back. My feet hurt for two days after Meistersinger...

Anyway, I just read that the Meistersinger production is supposed to come out on DVD. I hope they manage to capture a flawless performance, what with all the sick singers troubling the production. I'd certainly buy that.

[Hlao-roo 389]

It must be something to live in Vienna, I wish so much I lived somewhere close to a big cultural center. The closest we have (though not so close) is Houston, which is nice and everything, but can be variable as far as quality.

Sorry, but Houston doesn't count in my book as a "big cultural center." It's more like a big, ugly, hot, sticky slab of concrete.

Could never afford a season subscription to HSO, so I was limited to the Summer Symphony Nights at Miller Outdoor Theatre (Cynthia Woods Mitchell Pavilion was too far away).

If you haven't tried them, I would recommend attending concerts at Rice University's Shepherd School of Music. They're generally free (not including the parking fees, a relatively recent imposition), and performance quality is almost uniformly superb. Also, the HSO hosts its annual Ima Hogg Young Artists Competition there in May. If you love concerti (with piano rather than orchestral accompaniment), it's for you.

[Saxbabe 28]

Yeah...closest to me, geographically, LOL. But no cigar otherwise...

I hope to go see the Rice orchestra this spring, but my schedule always seems to conflict with their performances, and it's a 2 hour drive each way for me. I have a good friend that goes there and he said he enjoys their concerts more than seeing the HSO. The Shepherd School chamber and new music series sound really interesting too.

I plan to fly the coop to a more ideal location in about a year when I finish college, but have no idea where I'm off to yet. There's New York, but I can't see myself fitting in there as a Texas girl, and it's horribly expensive. There's Chicago, a lovely city and quite active. There's Los Angeles, obviously a plus if you're a lover of film music. And other areas...

But where in America actually is a real cultural center? Compared to Europe...well, it just doesn't even compare, unfortunately.

If you're a music lover of the classical/orchestral variety, plan to have a career in the arts (my interest is in the administrative side), and could live anywhere in the States, where would you pick?

There are jobs and internships available in many places in the field I'm interested in, but sometimes I'm stumped on where I would like to go.

Getting rather off topic here, sorry...just musing...

[Hlao-roo 389]

[Joe Brausam 214]

Does anyone have a personal favorite recodording of Parsifal? I'd hate to go out and buy a copy of it without it being the best...

[Romão 2,274]

Make sure you get a Bayreuth recording. Parsifal was an opera writen with Bayreuth Festspeilhaus in mind, so you really should get a live recording in oreder to hear it as Wagner intended.

I would personally recommend this one: http://www.amazon.com/Wagner-Parsifal-Rich...9138&sr=1-1 (i'm also a big Hans Hotter fan), but I'm sure some of our more knowledgable members will have something to say.

[Joe Brausam 214]

That was the one I was considering, I guess I'll pull the trigger on that one. I can always check out other recordings in the future. Thanks!

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

Silja, Stolze and Janowitz? I don't have a Parsifal yet, perhaps I should check this out someday (to be honest, the opera didn't impress me that much the two times I heard it live, but i do want to revisit it someday).

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

Do it. It really is the best.Or atleast worth of revisit...