Recently purchased movies / tv series

[filmmusic 1,837]

19 minutes ago, rough cut said:

Is it a used copy?

No, it's not. As I've said, UK hasn't got a standalone 2023 release, so I believe I'm good. The only release they have is from 2018.

This is where I got it:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Superman-Blu-ray-Marlon-Brando/dp/B07HXMTFV2

[rough cut 1,714]

Ok. Fingers crossed for you. 

[Andy 4,139]

Yes fingers crossed indeed. Word is they’ve been silently replacing the old disc with the new for the standalone  

[filmmusic 1,837]

4 hours ago, Andy said:

Word is they’ve been silently replacing the old disc with the new for the standalone  

Yes, this applies to the US release.

 

By the way, the UK release (unlike the US one), includes the special edition cut on the blu-ray. (in the US one, both the UHD and the blu-ray have the theatrical cut).

So, I'll have that one too, although I'm not sure I'll watch it ever. I almost always prefer the theatrical cuts.

[1977 1,743]

Is it only the individual 4k from a few years back that has this audio, or did any of the Blu-rays also have it?

[filmmusic 1,837]

1 minute ago, JTWfan77 said:

Is it only the individual 4k from a few years back that has this audio, or did any of the Blu-rays also have it?

I think only the individual 2018 4k release has it.

[1977 1,743]

I need those title swooshing sounds in their original 1978 multi channel audio but don't have a 4k player or display.

[Nick1Ø66 4,718]

1 hour ago, JTWfan77 said:

I need those title swooshing sounds in their original 1978 multi channel audio but don't have a 4k player or display.

I’m so, so sorry.

 

I haven’t felt such pity for a fellow JWFanner since the dark years when the LOTR CR’s were OOP.

 

Stay strong 💪  We’ll tell them your story.

[filmmusic 1,837]

1 hour ago, JTWfan77 said:

 but don't have a 4k player or display.

Are you planning to buy one in the near future?

[1977 1,743]

8 minutes ago, filmmusic said:

Are you planning to buy one in the near future?

 

A display, probably but certainly not in the next year. A player, not likely, as I don't intend to buy movies on 4k disc. After collecting Laserdiscs, DVDs, then Blu-rays and HD-DVDs, not to mention CDs, I just can't bring myself to spend more money on rebuying stuff on 4K, particularly as they cost a fortune to import. I may pick up a used Xbox One S to replace or supplement my aging PS3 Fat as a Blu-ray source and do have one 4K disc (The Martian) that I got used when I thought I was ordering the Blu-ray. I may pick up others here and there if they pop up really cheaply.

[rough cut 1,714]

 

14 hours ago, JTWfan77 said:

I need those title swooshing sounds in their original 1978 multi channel audio

 

I do understand this is a selling point for old and new fans alike (be it for nostalgia, curiosity, preservation or why not just the symbolic “need” to have it (let’s face it - we’re all collectors here ) to own the original (surround) soundtrack) but the remix 5.1 soundtrack is pretty good.

 

Better even maybe?

 

 

Here’s an interview with Michael Thau who did the 2001 remix:
 

Quote

 

Going back to the original mix, we were shocked when we heard it. We grabbed the original 70mm full-coat that actually had the label from the Pinewood stage on it; it had a date of November 1978. We put it up in a dubbing stage. We had Dolby down there a couple times verifying that the set up on the Dolby units, the decoding, was correct. Superman was the first film that was originally recorded in a 70mm 6-track split surround but here's the rub that no one knows about but it's the truth. They mixed in split surrounds but they did not use the surrounds very much, especially in a stereo way because it was very new and they were very scared of it. At the last second, here in America, they brought it over to do some final mastering on the 70mm and they chickened out and the film was only released with mono surround in the 70mm format. So they mixed it for stereo surround, but it was never released that way and the fact is that there wasn't much difference anyway.

In 1978, Dolby was just beginning to become prominent and on their recording dubber they could put a 6-track head up, a 4-track head up, a 3-track head or a 1-track. The 4-track would be for the standard Dolby mix: left, center, right, surround and the Dolby system had an crossover, where anything below a certain frequency would go to a subwoofer. The 6-track would be the same except they would have two added channels of baby-boom (low frequency bass) with more volume. The 3-track would be for the mono stems: dialog, music and effects, and the single-track would be for the mono mix. But they didn't have three recorders; they only had one at the time, the same here in the U.S. as well. So they could not record simultaneous 4-track dialog, music and sound effects stems (left, center, right, and surround.) You do a whole mix, and then you do another mix. They recorded first, the 6-track mix, then the four, then the mono mix, then the mono stems. They tried to make them one after another so they would sound the same. There really isn't much of a difference in the 6-track or 4, except in volume and bass. But you weren't preserving your stereo stems at that point. So, what came off the stage was the full mix or mono stems, which is one reason why we couldn't even reconstruct anything. We only had the mono stems. With dialog it doesn't really matter that much because you normally put the dialog down in the center channel anyway. Superman was different; they actually draped it across the whole front three speakers, which really prevented us from using any of the original mix. It doesn't work that well and sounds strange. Stereo was kind of a new gadget and I think they were just playing with the new toy. Dialog is best kept in the center channel for clarity.

DF: How did you begin the audio restoration?

Michael Thau: As far as the restoration goes, Dick and I sat down and watched the film first and talked about restoring some of the scenes into it. I had to talk about the stuff with Dick before we went to the DVD department and pitched them on what we wanted to do. So we ran Dick's personal print of Superman, which was made in 1984 or 1985, and we were just shocked to hear how mono the mix was. Dick swore, and I agreed with him too, that the titles would fly past you to the right and the left of you and they didn't. They just stayed very in the center speaker, in mono. We got the sound engineers up to the projection room and double-checking that everything was set up correctly. There was some stereo-ness to the music and sound effects, so we pitched on redoing the sound.

DF: It was amazing and I still had the laserdisc that I was comparing back and forth.

MT: The laserdisc is actually something I want to talk about. The sound on the laserdisc, what you hear there, that's what it actually sounded like. It's not that a laserdisc doesn't have good quality sound compared to a DVD, laserdiscs have pretty good sound reproduction. What you're hearing was what the Dolby Stereo mix actually sounded like! It was amazing how bad the sound was. We couldn't believe it. After a lot of talking about it we figured out what happened, a lot of it had to do with the fact that lots of picture changes were being made at the last second while they were in the process of mixing. They would pre-dub the dialog on one stage but then there were changes made and rather than making the changes to the original dialog dubbing units and starting over again, they would take the pre-dub, conform that and then remix that again on another stage. And they were beginning to lose many, many generations because of the rushing to finish. And the newness of Dolby, sometimes the machines weren't calibrated and set up correctly so now you have an element that has been messed up and they would use that as an element, multiple generations down. And the sound effects, most of the sound effects those days were optical sound effects, probably mono too. Optical sound is much worse than sound on mag stripe. Sometimes those optical sound effects would be many optical generations down. Some of the big breaks in Krypton in the original mix were actually wood breaks and there was a horrible electrical sound effect that was definitely an optical sound effect that they used over and over again when they went for shock value. No pun intended. It was used a number of times just as something that would cut through and grab your attention hopefully. 
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ..............................
"When I found the music, beautiful music units that were the mix-downs from John Williams' 24-track sessions and he mixed them down for some reason into 6-tracks, maybe because he knew there was going to be a six-track mix. It took us a while to figure out the layout; two sets of left, center, right tracks, these masters from Anvil Studios. They allowed us to do a true stereo surround mix. Bob Garrett was our music editor and dutifully mimicked the music cuts and built the stand alone music tracks. He also mastered the music-only track in 5.0.

But you're not going to have all this beautiful music flying around you and have the old mono effects. Supervising sound editor Jay Nierenberg, Donner, and I sat down and ran the picture and made a list of what we called "signature" sound effects. These were sounds that were very distinct sounds that we wanted to retain, but make sound better. Jay's team at Soundstorm captured digitally these original effects, and reproduced them, vastly improving their dynamics and frequency range in stereo. Examples of these are the baby's starship, Superman's x-ray eyes, and the rings that trap the villains on Krypton. Then Soundstorm went through the film and built thousands of sound units to completely rebuild the rest of the effects, always with an eye on the original mix. We updated old effects and designed new ones where appropriate, like the new crystalline sound of Krypton and all the helicopter sounds. Dan Leahy, effects re-recording mixer, obviously had the most work of anyone on Warners' Dubbing stage 'D.'

DF: So you have your "signature" sounds, but what were the deciding factors in where you would deviate from the original? Like the first appearance of Superman. When Jor-El's mask revolves around, there's a new whoosh that goes along with it.

MT: Donner. He told us to put a grandiose sound there. It seemed to need something. But I disagree with some people who have reviewed that particular section in the film and said, "It lost all of its dramatic momentum because it was all just music at that point." The music sticks through there clearly. As a matter of fact, where that whoosh is, there's almost a hole in the music. We didn't changed the music. In fact, we really pushed the music at that moment. And what we are particularly proud of is the main titles. Now they sound like what Dick and I thought they did sound like, and the direction of the sounds. And a note about digital sound effects. They have no hiss or white noise in them if they're recorded correctly. So you actually can play them lower then analog effects and still hear them better, playing the music even louder!

DF: How did you handle the original dialog track?

MT: I had the 1/4" production dialog rushed right over (from England) as quickly as possible. I was really pissed off that it had been missing for so long and we finally found it and we were going to mix the second I came back. So I had to get that stuff there quickly and we actually dug into them some times to salvage dialog when the original had built up noise or bad EQ. We couldn't use it as much as we wanted because a lot of the original dialog had been interlaced with looped lines. A lot of times we were stuck with just the mono stems of the dialog. But lead re-recording mixer Steve Pederson did an amazing job with the dialog (and the music). We also gave the original mono stem to a place called Novastar that did some restoration on it digitally. Then Steve had just a flat mono stem so that he could EQ as he wished. We also had the 70mm, in case we wanted to use that every once in a while and then we had the Novastar dialog treatment. So we had different ways of going back to the mixed dialog. Remember, those tracks had all the effects on them; echo, anything, it was all married on there. And, like I said, with Brando it was all looped lines. We never found the (original) loop lines.

The mix took about seven weeks. Of course it was wonderful to be able to move the music and sounds all around into the theater. We always referenced the original dub and balanced toward music or effects if they were favored in the original. That is, until Dick listened to a playback of a reel and gave us ideas brewing in his mind for over twenty-two years¾ "LOUDER!! STRONGER!! THIS IS SUPERMAN!! Make him FLY around the room!"

 

[Schilkeman 964]

Yeah, I still like my Ultimate Collector's Edition DVDs. No color issues like the bluray, and no dnr like the UHD. The mix is fine by my ears.

 

Stuff like this is why I've largely gone back to buying DVDs. If you can get past the resolution issues, they seem to have way fewer of these sorts of problems. Something about putting films out in HD makes the studios freak out that people will think their film looks old and not want to buy it. Old is a designation of age, not quality. I want the film to look like it's supposed to look, with the grain and color grading it's supposed to have. I've lost count now of the number of big blockbuster releases of older films that have come out with these sorts of problems. It seems endemic. 

 

Sorry for the rant, but this stuff drives me nuts. This is the "remastered" album problem. I shouldn't have to track down a version of something in a supposedly obsolete format to get the most accurate experience. People still buy laserdiscs because, in many cases, the transfers are still the most accurate to the original print. I'm mighty tempted myself. If they could do it right 30 years ago, they can do it right now. 

 

OK, I'm done.

[1977 1,743]

I'm sort of in the middle on this issue. When I watched the restored S:TM DVD in 2001 I was blown away to see a properly coloured Supes flying towards the dam wall after years of seeing that greenish Supes matte. I get the desire to preserve films the way they were originally released but if I had to choose between ugly matte lines, bad opticals and other issues, and using modern tech with restraint (see also ST: TMP DE) to tastefully and respectfully improve the presentation, I guess I'd opt for the latter. It is a slippery slope though.

[rough cut 1,714]

On 21/02/2023 at 9:01 PM, rough cut said:

Maybe that's all you need, really...

 

Yup, that’s all you need.

 

[Tallguy 3,401]

On 22/05/2023 at 2:01 PM, JTWfan77 said:

I get the desire to preserve films the way they were originally released but if I had to choose between ugly matte lines, bad opticals and other issues, and using modern tech with restraint (see also ST: TMP DE) to tastefully and respectfully improve the presentation, I guess I'd opt for the latter. It is a slippery slope though.

 

That's kind of my line as well. It might be hypocritical. So be it.

[Jurassic Shark 12,080]

[filmmusic 1,837]

35 minutes ago, rough cut said:

Yup, that’s all you need.

 

Ah, you got them?

What release is the first movie? Scandinavian? (I'm not sure I recognize those rating logos)

Does it have the original 5.1 track?

(I'm waiting for mine to check.. the UK release)

[rough cut 1,714]

Well, TBH, I purchased S:TM back in 2019.

 

So yes, it should contain the original soundtrack in its original surround mix.

 

On 6/12/2019 at 6:35 PM, rough cut said:

My Black Friday haul.

 

Oh, the memories… Just haven’t come ’round yet to watching it, that’s why it’s still unopened. 

 

Scandinavian indeed. Swedish, as a matter of fact. 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,549]

1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

A not bad movie even if it is a bit overwrought. Apparently Heston and Gardner hated each other, and that hatred spilled over, and into EARTHQUAKE.

[filmmusic 1,837]

26 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Apparently Heston and Gardner hated each other, and that hatred spilled over, and into EARTHQUAKE.

Funny you should mention that film, I'm just watching it and I have 15 minutes left to finish... 

[Schilkeman 964]

Looking forward to watching 3 and Ressurection, which I've never seen.

 

 

[Tallguy 3,401]

6 minutes ago, Schilkeman said:

Looking forward to watching 3 and Ressurection, which I've never seen.

 

 

 

Good luck. 3 is certainly not without merit. I quite liked it back in the day.

 

4... Well, good luck. Go find the outtake of Sigourney and the basketball.

[filmmusic 1,837]

I love Alien 3. It's the only one I've seen at theaters, and the score is fantastic!

What is this that you purchased? DVDs or Blu-rays?

[Marian Schedenig 8,206]

11 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

Good luck. 3 is certainly not without merit. I quite liked it back in the day.

 

4... Well, good luck.

 

4 is not without merit. 3 is great.

 

11 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

Go find the outtake of Sigourney and the basketball.

 

 

[A24 4,345]

I would have disowned Alien 3 as well.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,549]

47 minutes ago, Schilkeman said:

Looking forward to watching 3 and Ressurection, which I've never seen.

 

 

 

Make sure that you watch the assembly cut of ALIEN ³.

 

 

 

15 minutes ago, AC1 said:

I would have disowned Alien 3 as well.

Uncool, bro.

[Schilkeman 964]

36 minutes ago, filmmusic said:

What is this that you purchased? DVDs or Blu-rays?

DVD. The blu rays have color problems, and I have other reasons for preferring DVD, which I've elaborated on before, and won't repeat here, unless anyone cares to know

 

7 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Make sure that you watch the assembly cut of ALIEN ³.

Is it in that set? I'll definitely get to it.

[rough cut 1,714]

Alien 3 > Aliens

 

and

 

Alien 3 Assembly Cut > Alien 3

[Schilkeman 964]

I do like that all four of those movies are a different flavor of sci-fi, even if they're not all great. 

[filmmusic 1,837]

3 minutes ago, rough cut said:

Alien 3 Assembly Cut > Alien 3

Well, the assembly cut hasn't got the best scene of the movie for me, which fits with the score like a glove too!

Spoiler

the alien bursting out of Ripley's chest

 

[rough cut 1,714]

I hear ya.

 

Ah, maybe it’s had to say that the Assembly is objectively better. There are parts of the rearranged opening that I prefer in the TC. But I do like the extended plot points and atmosphere.

[A24 4,345]

37 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Uncool, bro.

 

Honesty is always cool.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,549]

1 hour ago, Schilkeman said:

 

Is it in that set? I'll definitely get to it.

 

All four films should be presented in both versions.

[1977 1,743]

2 hours ago, Schilkeman said:

DVD. The blu rays have color problems, and I have other reasons for preferring DVD, which I've elaborated on before, and won't repeat here, unless anyone cares to know

 

I do prefer that the BD of the Alien 3 AC has new looping for most the dialogue that the DVD only had production audio for.

 

Also the documentary on the BD is the uncensored version.

 

I still think Signourney is the hottest bald woman ever.

[rough cut 1,714]

Yes, the BD version definitely feels like a finished film whereas the DVD feels more like a “look what might’ve been”. I remember having the DVD and being fascinated by the new version but a bit bummed out just because of the audio problems. The BD felt like a real holy grail!

 

Also, great that you mention the differences in the documentary. I think it’s the only documentary I’ve watched twice - simply because of the new content in the BD version (how fantastic was that!) - and watching it has for sure deepened my love for Alien 3.

[1977 1,743]

It's a very underrated film (at least the expanded version although some of the TE reshoots have merit). It would have been so easy to do Aliens 2.0 and I think going completely in a different direction was the right thing, although the end product was hamstrung by studio interference and all the other issues that the excellent doc on the BD goes into at length. The score is incredible, almost operatic in places, and the production design fantastic. Some of the FX were problematic it's true, but had the film been made a few years later it would probably have been early CGI-heavy and technically dated as a result. It's amazing to think that this was Fincher's first film and a pity it didn't turn out better commercially and critically.

[rough cut 1,714]

Aw, man, now I feel like watching Alien 3!

 

BTW, did you see the Alien 40th anniversary short films? No one ever even mentions them - even though there’s been “plenty” of Alien related news in recent years. Seems like they should pop up in conversation.

 

Are they any good?

 

For those who don’t know what I’m talking about, for the 40th anniversary of Alien (1979) Fox produced six shorts that were released online and a short time after that, Alien was released on 4K. It was announced that the six short films would be included as bonus feature they weren’t. I remember being kinda bummed out when I bought the 4K because I was looking forward to new Aloen content.

 

In my disappointment, I never got round to watching them even though they are available online. I guess I should get ‘round to it before they’re taken down.

 

[1977 1,743]

I wouldn't bother with them, they're instantly forgettable.

[Schilkeman 964]

2 hours ago, JTWfan77 said:

I wouldn't bother with them, they're instantly forgettable.

Also, Alien Covenant, the most forgettable film in the franchise.

[A24 4,345]

4 hours ago, Schilkeman said:

Also, Alien Covenant, the most forgettable film in the franchise.

 

No, that's Alien 3. Sadly, it's not true. In fact, I dislike it so much that it's in my top 10 worst disappointments together with Return Of The Jedi. 

 

I mean, there are moments in Covenant that I actually like (the twin android moments) and that's something I can't say about Alien 3.

 

BTW, do we already have a 'TOP 10 Movie Disappointments' thread? 

 

 

 

[rough cut 1,714]

Talk about opposing views!

[Naïve Old Fart 9,549]

4 hours ago, AC1 said:

BTW, do we already have a 'TOP 10 Movie Disappointments' thread? 

 

We do, now 

[rough cut 1,714]

There have been some grumbling online regarding the 4K color remastering of Superman II. Some faces are apparently orange instead of a natural skin color.

 

My Moonization has done a comparison between the 4K and the BD.

Even with whater minor problems, just look at how gorgeous it is! I’ll take it any day.

 

Screencaps comparison:

 

Spoiler

BD:

 

4K:

BD:

4K:

 

BD:

4K:

 

BD:

4K:

 

BD:

4K:

 

BD:

4K:

 

BD:

4K:

 

[Edmilson 7,466]

16 hours ago, AC1 said:

 

No, that's Alien 3. Sadly, it's not true. In fact, I dislike it so much that it's in my top 10 worst disappointments together with Return Of The Jedi. 

 

I mean, there are moments in Covenant that I actually like (the twin android moments) and that's something I can't say about Alien 3.

 

BTW, do we already have a 'TOP 10 Movie Disappointments' thread? 

 

 

 

I feel like, as a whole, Covenant is a much more forgettable movie than Alien 3. That's the keyword here: forgettable, not bad. Decent movies can be forgettable (look at some early MCU stuff, like the first Thor or Captain America movies) and bad ones may be memorable, even if for the wrong reasons. 

 

In Alien's case, people can disagree about the overall quality of Alien 3 but in general it is a movie you can mostly remember even years after you saw it. Sure, it may not be the best memories, but still. Covenant, on the other hand, is just so bland it is instantly forgettable. I can't remember the name of the characters or what the actual plot was, even if (and this is debatable) it is overall a more fully-realized movie than 3.

[filmmusic 1,837]

You're right @rough cut, it does look orange:

https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?go=1&a=0&d1=18116&d2=4449&s1=207873&s2=41330&i=4&l=0

[Schilkeman 964]

On 27/5/2023 at 6:04 PM, Edmilson said:

Covenant is a much more forgettable movie than Alien 3

Having just watched Alien 3, I’m inclined to agree with this. I liked Prometheus, but Covenant feels like he skipped a film: 

[Andy 4,139]

Because every once in a while, I enjoy naughty avant garde low budget French surrealist vampire flicks.

 

 

[filmmusic 1,837]

On 21/05/2023 at 4:19 PM, Andy said:

Yes fingers crossed indeed. Word is they’ve been silently replacing the old disc with the new for the standalone  

I'm so pissed right now!

I specifically bought this UK release, assuming I'm getting the 2018 disc, as it states in the description!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07HXMTFV2

Well, UK too has silently replaced the old UHD with the new one, and I got the atmos mix and the lossless stereo! No old Dolby digital 5.1 mix!!

I have to return the disc now, but I don't know how am I supposed to track down the old 2018 release.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,549]

Try ebay.

Have you thought about contacting SUPERMAN Facebook groups, for advice?

[filmmusic 1,837]

16 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Try ebay.

Have you thought about contacting SUPERMAN Facebook groups, for advice?

I'm searching now at ebay. Everyone lists their items with a release date of 2018, but I'm not sure if they know themselves the issues involved.

I just asked one person, and told him to send me a photo of the back cover.

Apparently the true 2018 release lists incorrectly 1.85:1 as the aspect ratio (according to dvdcompare). (mine said 2.40:1).

 

Fortunately , I do not have to send back the item, and I just got a refund!