LOTR v.s. Potter

[Ollie 1,059]

And there's alot of things I hear in HP that I've heard before from Williams.

It happens to all composers.

[Morlock 11]

Indeed. Which is why I place importance on the context. A new film score, IMO, cannot be fairly judged solely by it's album. I mean, if it works as is, fantastic. But if it sounds an awful lot like something else by this composer....well, it can't hurt to understand what composer was tryign to achieve with the music.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Howard Shore has written good music for other films. He scores completely different films than Williams does and they are the kind that don't require boommmtzzzzz.

I cant believe an elder member has said that.

I always get amazed of how many film genres Williams has touched. His versatility is impressive.

[Neimoidian 14]

I guess its hard for people to fathom that there are those who love John Williams and think he's the best but can accept the fact that other composers are capable of writing music that is just as good or better at times

May I quote that statement in my singature?

[Ollie 1,059]

I guess its hard for people to fathom that there are those who love John Williams and think he's the best but can accept the fact that other composers are capable of writing music that is just as good or better at times

May I quote that statement in my singature?

As long as you credit me with it.

Howard Shore has written good music for other films. He scores completely different films than Williams does and they are the kind that don't require boommmtzzzzz.

I cant believe an elder member has said that.

I always get amazed of how many film genres Williams has touched. His versatility is impressive.

While he has scored a large variety of films I don't recall Williams scoring something similar to Silence Of The Lambs, Seven or The Cell to name a few.

[indy4 155]

I always get amazed of how many film genres Williams has touched. His versatility is impressive.

That is why, IMO, JW is the best composer ever. He is able to pull of a good score for any genre given to him. Other composers, such as Elfman, Zimmer, etc., have only one or two sounds, so while they may right work that's as good as JW's (although JW still has more good work), it is normal similiar to their other works.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I always get amazed of how many film genres Williams has touched. His versatility is impressive.

That is why, IMO, JW is the best composer ever. He is able to pull of a good score for any genre given to him. Other composers, such as Elfman, Zimmer, etc., have only one or two sounds, so while they may right work that's as good as JW's (although JW still has more good work), it is normal similiar to their other works.

fingernails on the black board comes to mind.

[indy4 155]

Classic Zimmer basher.

[Jeshopk 8]

Classic Zimmer basher.

He said the same thing about Elfman, and he deserves far more defense!

I think Zimmer and Elfman both are diverse (though I only like one of their music). Hell, 99% of talented composers are diverse. I think people imagine that composers can only write one style of music, where really they just get typecast by the industry (and film music fans). Herrmann was typecast, John Williams, Danny, Goldsmith, etc. All these composers have proven they could do any genre, but that's not the way Hollywood, or most fans, think about it --- until they THINK about it. Look at how successfully Christopher Gordon's career was sidelined by typecasting (the composer who should be the next giant of film music). I guess he can only do movies having to do with the ocean!

[Red 75]

Classic Zimmer basher.

Elfman destroys Zimmer, any time, anywhere.

[indy4 155]

I agree that Elfman is better than Zimmer. Elfman is my second favorite composer, Zimmer my third, and JNH my fourth.

Herrmann was typecast, John Williams, Danny, Goldsmith, etc.

How was JW typecast? Maybe back when he only scored jazz films, but not anymore!

[Red 75]

I agree that Elfman is better than Zimmer. Elfman is my second favorite composer, Zimmer my third, and JNH my fourth.

You will never learn . . .

[indy4 155]

Well, he isn't! He's scored:

Christmas movies

Westerns

Hero

Sci-fi

Film noir

Jazzy

Comedy

Historical Fiction

Fantasy

Children

Adventure

Horror

Drama

+all the Olympic/NBC/Football stuff

I'd hardly call that being typecasted. He may be more known for his big brassy fanfares, but that certainly isn't the only work he gets.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

I always get amazed of how many film genres Williams has touched. His versatility is impressive.

While he has scored a large variety of films I don't recall Williams scoring something similar to Silence Of The Lambs, Seven or The Cell to name a few.

Your statement works backwards too. I dont recall Shore scoring most of the film genres Williams has.

[Salacius 7]

I always get amazed of how many film genres Williams has touched. His versatility is impressive.

While he has scored a large variety of films I don't recall Williams scoring something similar to Silence Of The Lambs, Seven or The Cell to name a few.

Your statement works backwards too. I dont recall Shore scoring most of the film genres Williams has.

It's not really down to the composer, sometimes they don't get offered different styles of films so they can show their versatility.

[MSM 126]

I voted for LOTR because I really and truly think it is better than Harry Potter I am not less of a JW fan because I prefer LOTR over Potter.

I think you are, IMO. Not that I have a problem with that

[Jeshopk 8]

I agree that Elfman is better than Zimmer. Elfman is my second favorite composer, Zimmer my third, and JNH my fourth.

Herrmann was typecast, John Williams, Danny, Goldsmith, etc.

How was JW typecast? Maybe back when he only scored jazz films, but not anymore!

He was typecast in Comedies, then Disaster movies. I also think he's been somewhat typecast into space movies and then best-seller adaptations. But less and less so until now he's no longer typecast. But most successful composers have gone through it.

[Romão 2,274]

Being versatile is not defined by having scored movies of very different genres, but by doing it well and uniquely. Williams has done this very well. Most composers haven't.

[Red 75]

I voted for LOTR because I really and truly think it is better than Harry Potter I am not less of a JW fan because I prefer LOTR over Potter.

I think you are, IMO. Not that I have a problem with that

Why? I still like Potter, it's just that I like LOTR more. What is wrong with that?

[gkgyver 1,645]

Don't worry, people just tend to forget that JW is not infallible, and that others are as good as him, just in different ways.

I find it more insulting to JW if one isn't able to have a critical eye for his work. If I was a successful composer, I would rather have fans with which I can talk intelligently than people who drool all over me for even the crappiest little piece of music (NBC Football theme comes to mind).

[indy4 155]

I find it more insulting to JW if one isn't able to have a critical eye for his work. If I was a successful composer, I would rather have fans with which I can talk intelligently than people who drool all over me for even the crappiest little piece of music (NBC Football theme comes to mind).

Although I don't agree with that Football comment, I do agree with every thing else. If people love anything JW shoves in their faces, then it starts to get unrealistic. I would say that I love AT LEAST 90% of JW's work. The only score that I really hate is WotW. He is a great composer, I think everybody on this board knows that, he's my personal favorite, but it is not uncommon for another composer to right something as good or better than certain cues by him. IMO, he beats any other composer without a doubt, but there are certain cues that I'd like from a different composer more than certain cues from JW.

This wasn't directed at anybody specifically, just a general statement.

[MSM 126]

Don't worry, people just tend to forget that JW is not infallible, and that others are as good as him, just in different ways.

I find it more insulting to JW if one isn't able to have a critical eye for his work. If I was a successful composer, I would rather have fans with which I can talk intelligently than people who drool all over me for even the crappiest little piece of music (NBC Football theme comes to mind).

I am sorry I am not as intelligent as you, but I don't 'drool over JW' for everything he writes. With owning about 80 JW albums I think I can say I know the essence of JW's work, and yes there is lesser material. HP, however I do not consider lesser material, let alone a 'crappiest little piece'. I stand by my comment that someone who prefers LotR score over HP is not a true JW fan, but a true Howard Shore fan. What else than a magnificent score like PS do you need to beat LotR?

[Henry B 50]

Not a true fan? The horror, the horror! You, sir, have given grievous insult to the musical tastes of many. Bah! Be gone with your tyrannical dictations of truth among fans. We cannot bear it any longer!

[King Mark 3,631]

I agree with MSM

[Richard Penna 3,694]

I stand by my comment that someone who prefers LotR score over HP is not a true JW fan, but a true Howard Shore fan. What else than a magnificent score like PS do you need to beat LotR?

What?

I must have been asleep when the definition of 'fan' changed to "listens to solely to one composer and refuses to acknowledge the work of colleagues in field". I prefer the LotR scores over Potter, but I barely like anything else Shore has done, so how on earth is that classed 'true Shore fan'?

[King Mark 3,631]

I think what MSM meant is LotR fanboy in general.

If you still have TheOneRing.net bookmarked,your one of em.

I'd agree LotR maybe beats War of the World or Memoirs of a Geisha,but not the HP series

[Richard Penna 3,694]

I never had any LotR sites bookmarked. Don't watch the movies either. I just love the music. What's so hard to grasp?

[Elmo Lewis 6]

If you still have TheOneRing.net bookmarked,your one of em.

I don't have JWFan.net bookmarked - what does that make me?

By the way, if this is where the disucssion is going, I say we go all the way and start making people take sides on this matter, organise two armies and see who was right through superior firepower. Then we'll see.

[gkgyver 1,645]

I stand by my comment that someone who prefers LotR score over HP is not a true JW fan, but a true Howard Shore fan.

And it's as absurd now as it was then.

Apparently bookmarking makes one a fanboy.

The idiocy continues to grow on this board.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

Quite.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

I can't stand it when people throw around qualifications for being a "true" JW fan. It's ridiculous. As I've said before, the LotR scores aren't my cup of tea, but there are plenty of scores by other composers I prefer over certain JW scores. This doesn't make me any less of a JW fan than it does those who like the LotR scores better than the Potter ones.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

I know - it's as if there's real competition between these composers. Are some guys around here genuinely offended when someone actually likes something not composed by Williams, or are you just trying to cause a ruckus?

I know this is a discussion board, but it's only music, and no one has the right to say to anyone what they should/shouldn't like.

[gkgyver 1,645]

You know, it could work the other way around, too, someone who prefers HP over LotR is not a true Howard Shore fan, but a true JW fan. I couldn't even say something like that and mean it, even if I wanted to.

As if being a Howard Shore fan equals an insult to anyone ...

[King Mark 3,631]

John- who thinks that there will be much shouting, throwing of objects, and possibly crying by page 2 of this thread

[gkgyver 1,645]

The only crying I've read so far comes from people who can't accept that LotR is doing so well.

[Red 75]

The word fanboy is being thrown around too much. You are only a fanboy if you completely favor one over the other (composers) regardless of whether they are good or not. How does preferring one (large) work from either composers make one a fanboy (or less of a fan) for Shore or Williams? You would have to prefer one's entire body of work to do that!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I stand by my comment that someone who prefers LotR score over HP is not a true JW fan, but a true Howard Shore fan.

I would love for you to further explain the logic behind that statement.

[gkgyver 1,645]

"Don't talk to it! Don't encourage it!"

[Elmo Lewis 6]

I say, bring it on. Only thing we have to fear is fear itself!

[Ollie 1,059]

I stand by my comment that someone who prefers LotR score over HP is not a true JW fan, but a true Howard Shore fan.

I would love for you to further explain the logic behind that statement.

It's not a very smart statement.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

MSM's comment is actually ridiculous beyond believe.

With the possible exception of Jerry Goldsmith, John Williams is my fav composer, his music has been a constant in my life eversince the early 90's. There are so many scores, so many cues, so many musical moments that have underscored my life.

However, there are other composers out there that I like, Howard Shore is one of them, and in particular his LOTR scores.

Do I like Howard Shore more then John Williams?

Hell no, John Williams has written a lot more brilliant scores then Shore has.

But those 3 scores he did, that I love so much, they are for me as brilliant and magical as the best of John Williams, and Harry Potter is not the best of John Williams.

Close, but not quite.

If MSM cannot grasp that, then he's simply what we would call an "oetlul"!

[Richard Penna 3,694]

I stand by my comment that someone who prefers LotR score over HP is not a true JW fan, but a true Howard Shore fan.

I would love for you to further explain the logic behind that statement.

As would I.

[Ollie 1,059]

MSM's comment is actually ridiculous beyond believe.

With the possible exception of Jerry Goldsmith, John Williams is my fav composer, his music has been a constant in my life eversince the early 90's. There are so many scores, so many cues, so many musical moments that have underscored my life.

However, there are other composers out there that I like, Howard Shore is one of them, and in particular his LOTR scores.

Do I like Howard Shore more then John Williams?

Hell no, John Williams has written a lot more brilliant scores then Shore has.

But those 3 scores he did, that I love so much, they are for me as brilliant and magical as the best of John Williams, and Harry Potter is not the best of John Williams.

Close, but not quite.

If MSM cannot grasp that, then he's simply what we would call an "oetlul"!

Well said.

[indy4 155]

I disagree with anyone who thinks that by enjoying other scores as much or more than something by JW makes you less of a JW fan. I've been listening to Signs a lot lately, and I like it better than WotW, but hell, I only have three other JNH scores, does that make me a JNH fan? JW is my favorite composer without a dobut, but I'm willing to accept that there are other scores that are as good or better than certain JW scores. I guess you could call me a film score fan first, a JW fan second, but that's debatable. Anybody who isn't willing to accept that there are other great scores not written by JW is a true fanboy.

[King Mark 3,631]

I honestly think that LotR isn't that great,no matter how I feel about Williams or Harry Potter.It's too static .When I listen to it on my ipod it feels like the world around me is a slow motion scene

K.M.

[indy4 155]

That's fine, I could understand how many people might not like LOTR. But surley there is at least one non-JW score that you love.

[King Mark 3,631]

of course.

I don't listen to only JW.

[Red 75]

I really doubt MSM will be able to explain himself after Steef's response. You can't argue against the plain truth.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Also, it's not as if being a "true" Williams fan and a "true" fan of some other composer are mutually exclusive.

Ray Barnsbury - who has plenty of fandom to go around

[Richard Penna 3,694]

I honestly think that LotR isn't that great,no matter how I feel about Williams or Harry Potter.It's too static .When I listen to it on my ipod it feels like the world around me is a slow motion scene

K.M.

In all of RotK's almost 4 hour length, the complete score does have a few dull patches. Particularly, Allegiance to Denethor and the early parts of Anduril. I'm not saying it's bad music, just not really as exciting as the rest of the score.

But in my mind, not only is this completely understandable in a score of this length, but they're compensated by many other moments in the score making me air conduct every second.