LOTR v.s. Potter

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I know, but Gomp is just a more memorable title.

And yes, in the last 2 year i have contributed more to JWfan then JW has. (i'm not knocking his football themes though )

[indy4 155]

I LOVE the Rings themes. The Ring motif is as quintessential and recognizable as any Williams blockbuster theme. It's short and simple, but less can be more!

As much as I love the Ring motif, I don't know anybody who could recognize it if I played it for them, except perhaps die hard LOTR/soundtrack fans. But that's not a large percent of the population.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

There are more of us then you know!

[indy4 155]

There are?

[Pieter Boelen 740]

I voted for Harry Potter. As good and impressively cohesive the Lord of the Rings scores might be, I simply do not enjoy them as much as any of the Harry Potter scores. I actually prefer Chamber of Secrets (said to be the least impressive of the Potter scores) over Return of the King (said to be the most impressive of the LotR scores). The latter is perhaps better, but I just don't like it as much.

[Hlao-roo 389]

Both trilogies are nothing but garbage generated by hacks, and anybody who thinks otherwise is scum.

[Red 75]

Way to alienate, um, everyone.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I love you, Alan!

[gkgyver 1,645]

There's nothing like an idiotically incompetent post to channel the aggravation created by a Monday.

[Ollie 1,059]

It's amazing that people cannot grasp sarcasm.

[Quintus 5,399]

Anyone who reckons the first three HP scores better those of LOTR is bloody blind, deaf and ignorant.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

I will not say they are better. But I WILL say I enjoy them more. Much more.

[gkgyver 1,645]

It's amazing that people cannot grasp sarcasm.

Evidently.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Actually I like to think while we love JW we have more film music fans.

I know I'm more of a film music fan than a pure John Williams fan.

I certainly started out focused on JW, though.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

LotR LotR LotR.

Did I mention I voted for LotR?

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Anyone who reckons the first three HP scores better those of LOTR is bloody blind, deaf and ignorant.

See now, to me this is more of an unabashedly fanboy-ish comment than the attitudes taken by people like KM, or others who are often called Williams fanboys. It's typical of snobby LotR fans, though.

[Red 75]

It's amazing that people cannot grasp sarcasm.

Indeed.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It's amazing that people cannot grasp sarcasm.

Indeed!

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Well, the noobs aren't accustomed to Alan's ways yet!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

then screw the noobs!

[King Mark 3,631]

Anyone who reckons the first three HP scores better those of LOTR is bloody blind, deaf and ignorant.

See now, to me this is more of an unabashedly fanboy-ish comment than the attitudes taken by people like KM, or others who are often called Williams fanboys. It's typical of snobby LotR fans, though.

i agree,that is just a ridiculous comment.

There might be a whole truckload of LotR music,but HP more than makes up for it in quality.

[Jeshopk 8]

The only drawback of Potter music is the repetition of the theme in the beginning of the first movie (which could also be seen as why it is so memorable) and also the repeated music in the second one. These considerations made, I think the Potter scores still hold more experience, scoring and musical. Shore could never have written anything so masterful in the way they fit the scenes while still remaining outstanding standalone music. Shore's music is comprised mainly of whole tones and shifting chords. I like him as a composer, but moreso in Copland and Philadelphia. With Lord of the Rings, I can hear clearly that he cut corners all the way through in the essense of time. It was no small task to orchestrate and do multiple versions with no help. But the result is that very little of the music seems fully realized, and is mainly very long and static chords of similar orchestration.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

Oh no, you're not using that 'quantity' argument here KM...

I'm trying not to be fanboyish here, but LotR has a consistent level of quality and detail that simply isn't present all the way through the Potters. And I agree, that statement was stupid. Even as LotR fan, I can see why some might not find it so engrossing, and when Potter is good, it's f*****g amazing

----

How can you say Shore cut corners? Every single time I listen to anything from LotR, I notice some other thematic reference I hadn't noticed before - in fact I had to read the annotated score to TTT before I spotted many things. That doesn't sound like a rush job to me, whereas parts of Cos kinda do.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Nice post, but you have no more credibility left in my eyes.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

I'm sorry, what was in-credible about that?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Never mind. Let's just say it is old....news.

[Jeshopk 8]

Oh no, you're not using that 'quantity' argument here KM...

I'm trying not to be fanboyish here, but LotR has a consistent level of quality and detail that simply isn't present all the way through the Potters. And I agree, that statement was stupid. Even as LotR fan, I can see why some might not find it so engrossing, and when Potter is good, it's f*****g amazing

----

How can you say Shore cut corners? Every single time I listen to anything from LotR, I notice some other thematic reference I hadn't noticed before - in fact I had to read the annotated score to TTT before I spotted many things. That doesn't sound like a rush job to me, whereas parts of Cos kinda do.

Shore definitely didn't rush on thematic cohesion. He did a great job coming up with and being consistent with so many different themes. But many of the themes give me a similar feeling, are similarly structured, and are sort of emotionally static to me. There is not as much polyphony in these scores either. Mainly chords with a melody - or just chords. I guess it depends on a lot of things which one you will choose.

A) How deep do you get into the scores

B) How deep do you get into the movies

C) Do you prefer immediate impact or longterm appreciation

D) Do you listen for compositional techniques

I could go on, but I think we're all differently motivated in this, and some of us care more about the dramatic aspects while others care more about the musical aspects. I care more about the musical ones by a slight margin, but that doesn't mean the drama of the film doesn't have an impact. If I never saw LOTR and just heard the music, I would think this poll was silly and that Harry Potter should clearly win. But I understand the power of the LOTR stories, the lore, the cohesion, etc. for people. I just don't really get swept away by any of these films (LOTR or HP) so maybe I just look at the craft of it and the musical emotion rather than how the scores work in the films. Even that said, I feel the Harry Potter scores worked better in the films because I was not distracted by the static nature of the chords. Call me crazy, but simplicity is more distracting to me than complexity! They also seemed to fit better, blow by blow, where much of the LOTR music could have been transplanted IMO.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I did not really get into Fellowship untill i saw the film. I liked it but it did not click.

[indy4 155]

FotR is my least favorite LOTR score.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

That's fair enough JeshopK. Actually, when you first hear something like Two Towers CR, I think there is an overwhelming sense of so much music that you haven't heard before. And I admit, I'm daunted at the almost immediate prospect of Rotk because of the sheer volume of music to get to know, and because of Shore's tendencies with the chords and dissonance (as I said above that I can see why some might not appreciate it so much) so I guess you're right about the longer term 'investment'.

I do maintain however, that the music perfectly captures the essence of the films and displays the commitment Shore gave to the project (which I think is a very important fact to appreciate more).

---

I saw Fellowship before I was into scores. It's the film that finally made me want to know what that stuff playing in the background was. For that reason, it's my favourite of the three, but obviously that's biased by nostalgic elements.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

After a first listen I thought the four-hour running time of the RotK CR was too much for casual listening as well.

A few listens later I already find myself thinking differently. I'm loving every minute of it!

The Battle of the Pelennor Fields

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

FotR is my least favorite LOTR score.

Of course it is...

[Jacob 0]

I don't or can't analyze scores like some of you eloquently do. I sometimes go by the Chill Factor. And for me LOTR has more of those spine chilling moments.

And like Jeshopk said, I get into the LOTR lore and drama more than the, how do I put this delicately... the less epic world of Harry Potter.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

Well obviously LotR is more adult and has far more opportunities for Shore to really let rip.

Got to remember that LotR is meant as one big work, whereas Potter is just a series of films I don't meant to beat a dead horse but we're not exactly comparing like for like here.

[Jeshopk 8]

Well obviously LotR is more adult and has far more opportunities for Shore to really let rip.

Got to remember that LotR is meant as one big work, whereas Potter is just a series of films I don't meant to beat a dead horse but we're not exactly comparing like for like here.

As far as the films go, I would think it is impossible for most people to separate their impact from the scores. I admire Shore's LOTR's cohesiveness and completeness most of its qualities. It clearly would be better if Williams could always be there to rework his music after editing, and could be a tad more consistent with leitmotif. It would be interesting if someone could count the unique notes in the first 3 Harry Potters and compare them with LOTR (vertically and horizontally). I would bet Williams wrote as many notes as Shore, but Shores are spread out more, while Williams are all-a-flurry.

[MSM 126]

Potter 1 and 2 are Williams´ masterpieces since the days of Jurassic Park, Schindler´s List and Sabrina. How could I not vote for them

[Red 75]

You like Chamber of Secrets that much? I'd name Prisoner of Azkaban as easily the best of the trilogy.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Crazy dutchie!

[MSM 126]

Crazy dutchie!

Aren't we all

[indy4 155]

Ooooohhhhh, 23 to 23, this is intense!

[Jacob 0]

Well obviously LotR is more adult and has far more opportunities for Shore to really let rip.

Got to remember that LotR is meant as one big work, whereas Potter is just a series of films I don't meant to beat a dead horse but we're not exactly comparing like for like here.

Indeed.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Ooooohhhhh, 23 to 23, this is intense!

As intense as counting sheeps.

[Ollie 1,059]

Hmmmmm.....sheeeeppppp.................

[King Mark 3,631]

What I find disturbing,in a JW forum,is that a vote for LotR is a vote against some of Williams best music.

K.M.

[Trent Hoyt 13]

Indeed....

I cast my vote for.......

HP!

[gkgyver 1,645]

What I find disturbing,in a JW forum,is that a vote for LotR is a vote against some of Williams best music.

What I find disturbing is that in a forum that seems to be a bit more sophisticated, a vote for Lord of the Rings is considered a vote against John Williams.

And Harry Potter isn't one of Williams' best (Azkaban may be, but not the first score, and surely not the second, random collection of notes and themes), even if some misguided creatures consider it the best score of the century.

Now THAT is a reason to be deeply disturbed!

[Jeshopk 8]

Alright! Close the ballot boxes, HP wins! 24 to 23.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Isn't it bad enough that I have to suffer through "The Norwegian Ridgeback" to get to "A Change Of Season"?

Does a boring piece like "Cakes For Crabbe And Goyle" now beat something like "Theoden King"?

[indy4 155]

Not fair, you're picking great LOTR cues and bad Potter cues. Does "The Dreams of Tree" beat "Mischief Managed!"

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

That's definitely one of the bland, regurgitated tracks. Chamber's strength lies mostly in its standalone concert works, certainly not as a film score.