The Phantom Menace vs. Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

[Josh500 1,615]

With so many polls around comparing KotCS to another movie, I'm surprised no one did this.

It's obvious. They are both the 4th movie made a long time after the original hugely successful trilogy, and both had audiences' expectations go through the roof. In both movies JW did a "comeback" so to speak, hinting at his original scores while coming up with plenty of new stuff.

So which movie/score do you like better?

[Neimoidian 14]

I like the TPM score more, of course. It's richer in every way and more original than very derivative KotCS.

As for film, I don't know. I'm one of those few people who find TPM great and I've only seen KotCS once, while TPM I've seen numerous times during that 9 years. In that case I think I'll say I like TPM more.

[ChuckM 1]

Definately TPM in both ways. I was not the least bit disappointed with it.

[Ollie 1,059]

TPM, both film and score.

[MissPadmé 17]

Defenitely the Phantom Menace .. Movie and Score! That one is much more of a star wars movie, than Indy 4 is an Indy movie

[Josh500 1,615]

I hope this doesn't turn into a "The Phantom Menace Appreciation Thread"!

[MrScratch 294]

Interesting poll. They are both fourth entries, both massively anticipated long awaited sequels, both bad movies, both worse than the previously worst third entry in the series. I voted TPM for both, though the score is way better the films are about on par with each other. Maybe its because I've gotten used to how bad TPM is, KOTCS' awfulness is still fresh.

[Neimoidian 14]

Defenitely the Phantom Menace .. Movie and Score! That one is much more of a star wars movie, than Indy 4 is an Indy movie

I disagree with you, miss. I think KotCS is also rightful (though not the best) Indy movie.

[SpaceOddity 0]

While I loved the TPM score, I'm absolutely shocked that TPM (the movie itself) is leading. In my mind, KotCS is nowhere near the amount of epic failure that TPM achieved. KotCS can't even touch it. I'm still reeling from TPM, to be honest, and all of the prequels. Good Lord.

[Henry B 50]

I'm gonna have to go with TPM on both counts... Ouch.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

TPM, both film and score.

Quoted for truth.

TPM is a decent movie, but a wonderful epic.

Its pacing is what keeps it down, as well as a lot of Lucas' creative decisions on the film, and some of the acting.

But ultimately it is a movie whose heart is in the right place.

[MissPadmé 17]

To me Episode I never seemed like the grand return of the classic Star Wars feeling...So it was Lucas' decision to make the story of Anakin falling to the dark side.. and I find that to be a very good idea and I think it was a very wise and intelligent decision to make a sort of prelude, an exposition for 6part epic story... overall everything is bright and there is not much sense of a threat at all... these were the "happy" days in the star wars universe where everythings is starting.. fans were dissapointed by that film because there was to much talking, it was to fancy, to childish

I think it serves as a very good exposition and you really expected things being developed in EP II and III and become that way we know them in Ep IV.. but nfortunately...it went in an awkward direction. and I cannot understand how anyone with some intelligence can rate EP II higher than TPM..

I just cannot understand what happened between EI and II ..for me it began to go downhill with SW after EI.. with a slight up with Ep III. But to me Star Wars TPM was a good picture:

On location shooting

the actors (Liam Neeson!)

The scenes with any and his mum

ON LOCATION shooting

the typical SW cornyness... (cutting to one location.. we hear a BIG brassy fanfare and then the villians say two words and we cut back !!!)

the MUSIC (easily the best!)

the podrace is a great idea!

the lightsaber fight

only thing I find now somehow annoying.. just because I am no longer a kid.. is of course Jar-Jar. He distracts from the created onscreen magic sometimes.. but I can live with that.

Overall Star Wars Ep I is a very magical film with, as someone potted, its heart on the right spot.. and with a wounderful childish innocence

[Red 75]

TPM for best score without a doubt. Comparing the films is a much more difficult, but for right now I'd have to give it to KOTCS.

[indy4 155]

KotCS for film, for score, it was much much harder. In the end I went with KotCS again, but it's VERY close.

[King Mark 3,631]

I was never dissapointed by TPM

Saw it 6 or 7 times in the theater

TPM wins by both counts

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

Close for the film, but I went with Skull. For score, TPM hands down.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

KotcS for film easily, and at this point I give the edge to TPM for score.

[Bryant Burnette 654]

For score, The Phantom Menace in a one-man landslide. I love that score, without any apologies.

For film, Crystal Skull. I like The Phantom Menace well enough, and I'd say that the best elements are probably superior to the best elements in KotCS; but for me, a lot of TPM falls flat on its face.

(1) Jake Lloyd. Are you telling me that you scoured the world and couldn't find a better kid actor than this? It really does pain me to say mean-spirited things about a child, since it's really the director's job to get a good performance, but the kid was just terrible.

(2) Jar-Jar is . . . well, he sucks. The worst part is, he's a pointless character who distracts us from things we'd much rather be seeing. More Qui-Gon, anyone?

(3) Boss Nass is even worse. He may be one of the most embarrassingly bad characters in the history of cinema.

(4) The Neimoidians (apologies to the JW fan who took their name!) are cringe-inducing in every respect.

(5) Natalie Portman, a great actress, is awful in this movie.

I'd probably have more to say if the movie were fresher in my mind.

But I also love a lot of it, such as any time a lightsaber is drawn, Liam Neeson, the score, most of the effects, and so on.

Overall, though, I like Crystal Skull more.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I didn't think Jake was that bad. Yeah, Jar Jar was annoying, and Natalie just felt awkward and looked like she'd rather be somewhere else. But Jake? Nah, he just came across as a kid with a hobby for gadgets and electronics, and a yearning to see the universe. I remember the blonde kid on "The Beginning" documentary on the DVD had everyone wondering why he wasn't chosen, but he came across as a little too well rehearsed.

[Josh500 1,615]

I didn't think Jake was that bad. Yeah, Jar Jar was annoying, and Natalie just felt awkward and looked like she'd rather be somewhere else. But Jake? Nah, he just came across as a kid with a hobby for gadgets and electronics, and a yearning to see the universe. I remember the blonde kid on "The Beginning" documentary on the DVD had everyone wondering why he wasn't chosen, but he came across as a little too well rehearsed.

I think they just wanted to have a cute kid. So the transformation would be even more impressive. What, that cute kid became the evil of the galaxy????

[Neimoidian 14]

(4) The Neimoidians (apologies to the JW fan who took their name!) are cringe-inducing in every respect.

Never mind I took it deliberately because of these characters' cringe-inducing features (very appropriate to myself) and their flawed accent which resembled my own at that time

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

their flawed accent which resembled my own at that time

[crocodile 8,017]

Tough choice. KOTCS is better as a film simply because I have some fun watching it. The score, however... They are at the same level. TPM is probably more memorable, for me, KOTCS is more satisfying in the end.

Karol

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Run for the hills, but I'm gonna have to agree with King Mark. Sort of.

I never actually disliked TPM. I was only disappointed from the hype, and the movie was NEVER going to meet that hype. I always thought of it as a good movie...not far behind RotJ...which I also thought was a highly enjoyable film.

Yeah, I said it, shoot me.

[Neimoidian 14]

Run for the hills, but I'm gonna have to agree with King Mark. Sort of.

I never actually disliked TPM. I was only disappointed from the hype, and the movie was NEVER going to meet that hype. I always thought of it as a good movie...not far behind RotJ...which I also thought was a highly enjoyable film.

Yeah, I said it, shoot me.

I like it even more than RotJ

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I caný vote on the scores yet, but KOCS is a far better film then TPM.

Despite it's faults, KOCS is never boring, TPM is a snoozefest.

[MissPadmé 17]

Run for the hills, but I'm gonna have to agree with King Mark. Sort of.

I never actually disliked TPM. I was only disappointed from the hype, and the movie was NEVER going to meet that hype. I always thought of it as a good movie...not far behind RotJ...which I also thought was a highly enjoyable film.

Yeah, I said it, shoot me.

I like it even more than RotJ

Me too! Exept the Scenes with Palpatine.. and the luke vader duel!

I think George should have had the guts to go further in the Empire more adult.. less happy life direction with ROTJ. It would have been the ultimace dramatic climax too a space opera epic! shame that Kurtz left...

[Ollie 1,059]

At least TPM actually felt like a Star Wars film and Williams made an effort to make the music sound like Star Wars music.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I'm sorry Mark, but this TPM feels like a SW film is and has always been a bull S*H*I*T excuse. For it's first 1 and a half hour, it's is almost completely and mindnumbingly boring and inept, and for the rest of it's running time it is just inempt.

Just because it was shot on regular film instead of digital does not save it in any way, shape or form.

I agree that John Williams made a very valiant effort, but the film he had to work with did him no favors. TPM may be better then AOTC and ROTS, but that's like saying it's better to be shot in the head then to be stabbed in the neck, or have your guts removed with a ho!

KOCS, as flawed a film as it may be, stands lightyears above this prequel dreck!

[indy4 155]

I'm a huge fan of all six Star Wars films (I even love AotC), but maybe it's just because of the freshness, but I voted KotCS on both accounts.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I'm a huge fan of all six Star Wars films (I even love AotC),

Hardly surprising, you strike me as one of those people who sometimes has to remember to breath....

[Ollie 1,059]

It doesn't bother me whether or not the movie is pure film or shot digitally because the actual quality of the story is what counts.

Both films suffer from their script and poorly executed ideas. With a cast of Liam Neeson, Ewan Mcgregor, Natalie Portman and even Samuel Jackson you wouldn think they could overcome Lucas's poor directing skills. Plus as Blumenkohl stated one could sense that it was going to be hard to capture the old magic.

But it's Star Wars and we know what the story arc is, even though it's nowhere as interesting as it should have been.

However with Ford and Spielberg at the helm, even though after 19 years the same could be said about recapturing magic, one might have felt the film wouldn't suffer from what plagued the prequels.

KOTCS did no favors to Williams and this has to be the biggest letdown since his score to AOTC. Yeah sure he wrote some nice themes but for the most part the rest of the score offers no hint at an epic Indy adventure. In fact the music feels like it could have been composed for the prequels.

The entire story of KOTCS is boring and the MacGuffin is not a very exciting quest for Indy. In fact the whole film makes Indy seem like a background character with nothing to really do.

Non of the action sequences have the feeling that Indy is doing anything to help the situation. In fatc he feels more like a standy by in all the scenes. It doesn't matter if he survives them or not.

In TPM the major characters at least take an active part in the action and they are pulled off much better than KOTCS.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

You are wrong, I am right and I hope you will learn to live with that some day.

[Ollie 1,059]

I doubt I'll lose any sleep over it.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Good man!

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

Non of the action sequences have the feeling that Indy is doing anything to help the situation. In fatc he feels more like a standy by in all the scenes

Definitely yes in the University chase, but surely not in the warehouse fight, the peruvian ninjas and the ants sequence. Jungle chase was a bit of an ensemble sequence.

[Desplat13 1]

TPM is a decent movie, but a wonderful epic.

Its pacing is what keeps it down, as well as a lot of Lucas' creative decisions on the film, and some of the acting.

But ultimately it is a movie whose heart is in the right place.

Good post. And I would put Return of the Sith there too, with a little more than a little edge for me, because I can't help the fact that I love epic, overdone and overacted tragedies. All of those things gave Williams the chance to do something really special, and he did it. Now for the complete score release, so we can actually hear the special things that he did.

[Quintus 5,399]

TPM is one of two brown stains on the Star Wars saga. Simply put, if you remove the lightsabers and the excellent JW score, you don't even have a Star Wars movie to begin with. Nope, what you're left with is nothing more than a nonsensical big budget B-movie along the lines of Chronicles Of Riddick.

Turmoil has engulfed the Galactic Republic.The taxation of trade routes to

outlaying star systems is in dispute.

^Most hilarious opening exposition ever!

KotCS isn't exactly a great movie, but it is nowhere near as bad as the embarrassment that was TPM.

[Ollie 1,059]

Turmoil has engulfed the Galactic Republic.The taxation of trade routes to

outlaying star systems is in dispute.

^Most hilarious opening exposition ever!

No I think ROTS has it beat with the War! opening and silly comment of heroes on both sides.

I don't even remember what AOTC has for it's opening crawl.

[Desplat13 1]

Yes, that "War!" really did make me laugh.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

silly comment of heroes on both sides.

beating again the horse, ok.

So, when a war arises, only one band is entitled to have heroes?

Last time i read, Hector was the Trojan hero, and Aquiles the Greek one.

Sir Francis Drake was a British hero, but for us he was just a sonofabich pirate.

[Quintus 5,399]

C'mon man, don't be tempted by the bait. You must resist!

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

Yes, that "War!" really did make me laugh.

It's a good thing they remember the audience, though, since the film doesn't show that much of a war.

[Ollie 1,059]

They showed us alot of ships taking off and landing.

[Josh500 1,615]

beating again the horse, ok.

So, when a war arises, only one band is entitled to have heroes?

Last time i read, Hector was the Trojan hero, and Aquiles the Greek one.

Sir Francis Drake was a British hero, but for us he was just a sonofabich pirate.

Don't bother! Some people come here not because they're fans but because they wanna gripe!

[Demodex 557]

TPM was a huge disappointment. Huge. It has a great score and one great lightsaber battle, but everything else was crap. It had huge potential, but Lucas can't write dialog if you give him half the lines, and he apparently figured with Liam Neeson and Ian McDiarmid on board he didn't need to bother getting anyone else to actually give a half decent performance.

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

They showed us alot of ships taking off and landing.

Yes, seemed like a running gag.

The only thing missing were captions saying "Buy now for 14.99 at Toys R Us!"

[SpaceOddity 0]

TPM was a huge disappointment. Huge. It has a great score and one great lightsaber battle, but everything else was crap. It had huge potential ...

I basically have the exact same opinion. I could seriously write a novel on where TPM went wrong. But it's such a dark chapter in my life, it'd be hard to revisit it... *shudders*

A bit off-topic, but has anybody seen the TPM episode of "Spaced"? It's brilliant. 0:22 of this clip

pretty much sums up my initial reaction to the film. LOL. It also has one of my favorite lines ever... "Jar Jar Binks makes the Ewoks look like f**king Shaft!"