Pirates Of The Caribbean 4: On Stranger Tides

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I think most of you may already know, but a fourth installment in the series has been announced. It was announced when Johnny Depp confirmed he would be playing in the new take on The Lone Ranger.

Recently, it has been rumored that Tim Burton might actually direct Pirates 4. The series creators want to have Jack Sparrow have a brother this time around, possibly with Sasha Baron Cohen or Russell Brand playing the role.

This could very well make sense, considering Burton is working with Disney on Alice In Wonderland; and we all know his love for Johnny Depp.

Here is the article. Of course this is all just speculation on information released from an inside source, but what do you guys think? I want this thread to be more of a discussion of how you would think the turnout would be, more than debate whether the information is true or not.

So let's have it? Would a Burton directed Pirates film be good? How do you think the score would turn out with Elfman composing?

[Henry B 50]

Mehhhhh.

[John Crichton 4]

Interesting. I'm not sure I like the idea of Burton directing, the best thing about it is we would probably get an Elfman score. I'm not Elfman's biggest fan, but he's a lot better that He Who Must Not Be Named.

I don't like the brother idea at all. They've already got a great foil for Jack with Barbossa, just let the two of them go at it.

[indy4 155]

Zimmer's third PotC score was absoutely fantastic, I'm actually not sure if Elfman would fit. But I would definetly see it and get the score.

Consider me officially excited for this film, even if I'm not sure if it'll be good or not.

[Richard Penna 3,695]

I hope it doesn't happen. AWE got way too complex IMO and ruined what made the first movie so good.

I do love the Jack Sparrow character though.

[indy4 155]

I don't like the brother idea at all. They've already got a great foil for Jack with Barbossa, just let the two of them go at it.

I agree. They have enough characters to last 10 films.

[Ollie 1,059]

I can't picture Burton working with Bruckhiemer. And I can't see Elfman wanting to waste time on this film so Hans will still be able to crank out his pirate music.

However I have no need for a 4th film, espcially after the third turned out to be rather poor.

And apparently Depp will be playing Tonto from what I've read. No real Native American actors available it seems.

[Richard Penna 3,695]

I don't like the brother idea at all. They've already got a great foil for Jack with Barbossa, just let the two of them go at it.

I agree. They have enough characters to last 10 films.

Yeah, it's like Scrat from Ice Age, They could both fill a movie by themselves.

[John Crichton 4]

However I have no need for a 4th film, espcially after the third turned out to be rather poor.

The third one was a total illogical mess. I only own the first two on DVD. But I've always liked the idea of a Jack/Barbossa centric fourth movie, I could watch Depp and Rush chew scenery all day.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I can't picture Burton working with Bruckhiemer. And I can't see Elfman wanting to waste time on this film so Hans will still be able to crank out his pirate music.

However I have no need for a 4th film, espcially after the third turned out to be rather poor.

Hans said in an interview he's done with POTC. He wouldn't return, unless maybe Verbinski returned, which I doubt since he has BioShock in the works.

I agree that a 4th should not be made, as much as I like the score and enjoy all the films, I would have been pleased with a single Pirates Of The Caribbean like it was originally planned.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

I am not excited.

[Trent B 337]

This should be interesting. I love the Pirates Of The Caribbean films, and the way how At World's End ended just made me want to see what was going to happen next. I'm sure this will be just as good too.

[indy4 155]

2 and 3 were massively flawed, but they are still fantastic entertainment.

[Red 75]

Burton directing could make for an interesting departure, but overall I really could care less about this. I think it's best just to leave it be, at this point it would be like beating a dead cash-cow.

[Wojo 2,453]

I'd prefer them to leave the series stand as is. Hollywood just loves to take existing trilogies and turn them into a "trilogy* plus one." Rambo. Die Hard. Indiana Jones. And now Pirates? Meh.

*For the sake of example, I use "trilogy" in the loose sense of three movies under a common title, NOT in the tighter sense (accepted in this board) as having an overarching storyline. I KNOW Indiana Jones isn't a trilogy the way that BTTF and The Matrix are. So?

Flawed or not, AWE was still great fun. But it concludes in a great spot. The first movie started with Jack alone without his ship after a mutiny, and that's how the saga ends: Jack alone after a mutiny without his ship. Anything else would feel forced and unnecessary.

If they do decide to make it, giving Jack a brother is totally ridiculous because then they're trying to invent more characters to tell even more convoluted stories. His dad in AWE felt natural because they didn't try to do too much with it. Keith Richards' character had his five minutes of screentime, told a few jokes, and that was it. A Sparrow brother would have to be more than a brief cameo like that, and Barbossa already presents the optimal partner/worst enemy pairing that Jack Sparrow thrives on. And a Pirates 4 could work as either a prequel or sequel, making both Jack and Barbossa very much alive to tell the story.

But what's next? A long-lost son? An ex-wife pirate scourge come back to do him in? Indiana Jones brought his dad along for the ride, and it was great fun. But we all know what happened when he decided to bring his son...

beating a dead cash-cow

How about saying that with a pirate swagger, lad, aye?

[indy4 155]

Indiana Jones brought his dad along for the ride, and it was great fun. But we all know what happened when he decided to bring his son...

...more great fun.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

indy4, you talk entertainment and quality as if they are one and the same. They are not. KOTCS was entertaining, but it was by no means a good film in any way.

[indy4 155]

Uh...except for two hours ago when I posted this in this very thread:

2 and 3 were massively flawed, but they are still fantastic entertainment.

[Trent B 337]

90% of films that are made have their own flaws in some way. However most that I see are very enjoyable and I end up buying on DVD because I enjoyed it. If others don't enjoy them, then it's not my problem.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Uh...except for two hours ago when I posted this in this very thread:

2 and 3 were massively flawed, but they are still fantastic entertainment.

O.K. Do agree then that Indy 4 is a massively massively massively flawed film?

[Red 75]

indy4, you talk entertainment and quality as if they are one and the same. They are not. KOTCS was entertaining, but it was by no means a good film in any way.

It's all relative. Indy4 thinks that KOTCS was a good and entertaining movie, and that's his opinion. You can't prove him wrong.

[indy4 155]

I agree there are flaws.

Not necessarily bad ones. For example bad dialouge--that has always been a part of the Indy films, that is a part of their charm. Cheesy stunts--again, same as the originals. That is a part of why Indy is so great. The cheesy stunts and cheesy dialouge perfectly fits those films.

Having said that, there are some flaws that are bad ones. There should have been less CGI and Indy should have been more important during the major setpieces, instead of Mutt. There could have been more development within the family.

However, other than that, it was a great great film.

[Henry B 50]

As with Star Wars, I'm not going to accept that the dialogue of the originals was also cheesy and bad. I mean, we have a huge Indy quotes thread to attest to all those great lines.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

I'd prefer them to leave the series stand as is. Hollywood just loves to take existing trilogies and turn them into a "trilogy* plus one." Rambo. Die Hard. Indiana Jones. And now Pirates? Meh.

There isn't any rule that a series of movies must end with the 2nd sequel.

[Matt C 455]

Hans said in an interview he's done with POTC. He wouldn't return, unless maybe Verbinski returned, which I doubt since he has BioShock in the works.

Still, even if Zimmer didn't return, Bruckheimer would insist on using MV/RC composers for POTC 4 for the next director -- Trevor Rabin, Nick Glennie-Smith, Geoff Zannelli, James Dooley and the other composers who provided "additional music" for the previous Pirates entries. Or if the next director is lucky, they'll get the better ones such as Harry Gregson-Williams or John Powell.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

It wouldn't be Zanelli or Dooley, or anyone like that. Most likely Rabin, that's Bruckheimer's favorite. Glennie-Smith rarely composes, he's a conducter and orchestrator.

I don't think Harry and Powell would be interested in something like Pirates, especially since the film doesn't fit any of their styles.

[Matt C 455]

I mean, Gregson-Williams has collaborated with Zimmer before (Bruckheimer's The Rock one such example), so Bruckheimer feels comfortable with him and his style. I'm grateful that when Mike Newell couldn't get Patrick Doyle for Prince of Persia: Sands of Time, Gregson-Williams is a far better Bruckheimer alternative than Rabin.

And Glennie-Smith has done a few high-profile projects. We Were Soldiers, The Man in the Iron Mask, and he collaborated with Zimmer on The Little Polar Bear films and Lauras Stern (a very surprising and tender score, very un-Zimmerlike). It's just I think more people overlook him in favor of the hotter composers like Zimmer, Powell and Gregson-Williams.

[indy4 155]

As with Star Wars, I'm not going to accept that the dialogue of the originals was also cheesy and bad. I mean, we have a huge Indy quotes thread to attest to all those great lines.

It's cheesy in a good way. There's some great dialouge in the OT, because of its cheesiness.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I mean, Gregson-Williams has collaborated with Zimmer before (Bruckheimer's The Rock one such example), so Bruckheimer feels comfortable with him and his style. I'm grateful that when Mike Newell couldn't get Patrick Doyle for Prince of Persia: Sands of Time, Gregson-Williams is a far better Bruckheimer alternative than Rabin.

And Glennie-Smith has done a few high-profile projects. We Were Soldiers, The Man in the Iron Mask, and he collaborated with Zimmer on The Little Polar Bear films and Lauras Stern (a very surprising and tender score, very un-Zimmerlike). It's just I think more people overlook him in favor of the hotter composers like Zimmer, Powell and Gregson-Williams.

Harry Gregson did very little on The Rock. It was mainly Glennie-Smith's project, but Bruckheimer hated what he was doing, so he brought in Zimmer to clean up the mess. Harry provided additional music, nothing important. As for Glennie-Smith's scores, there are a select few, you named pretty much all of them, he's not an active composer. Like I said, he mainly helps out RCP and conducts or orchestrates. The most probable reason for his lack of composing is that he felt like he failed on The Rock. He tried to make up for his mistakes owith The Man In The Iron Mask, which is why it sounds exactly the same but more developed.

In simpler words, ex-MV composers like Harry and Powell won't go back to working with Bruckheimer. Trevor Rabin is still in that stage, he composes a huge portion of Bruckheimer's productions. Steve Jablonsky scores all of Michael Bay's projects now, either directing or producing. Zimmer will never work with Michael Bay again after their strife on the Pearl Harbor score, same goes with Mark Mancina after Bad Boys. I'm just starting to ramble now about RCP composers. Anyway, the fourth Pirates film will most likely be comsposed by Hans if Verbinski returns. If Burton actually ends up directing, I have no doubt Elfman will compose. Bruckheimer will just push for a Zimmeresque score, so Elfman will churn out something like The Kingdom.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I haven't even seen 2 and 3.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

No interest in this, unless Elfman ends up scoring it. An Elfman pirate score is an intriguing idea.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

I would be interested in hearing that.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

No interest in this, unless Elfman ends up scoring it. An Elfman pirate score is an intriguing idea.

Depends on who's commanding him. Burton, okay, but potentially conflicting ideas and tastes with Bruckheimer? We might have a problem.

[Maglorfin 196]

2 and 3 were massively flawed, but they are still fantastic entertainment.

I agree with that and at the same time do and don't want to see more of Jack Sparrow. Well, they could certainly exclude annoying Knightley and Bloom and explore some other possibilities, but one way or the other, I hope they won't ruin the franchise, which is what PotC is apparently becoming.

[Hitch 57]

Pirates of the Carribean 4 is about as pointless as tits on a bull.

[fommes 153]

Let's hope neither Burton or Elfman waste their talents on this dreck.

[Wojo 2,453]

After the three they've made, a Pirates movie without Verbinski and Zimmer -- even with the great creative team of Burton and Elfman -- makes about as much sense as a sequel to Home Alone 1 and 2 without Chris Columbus and John Williams.

[Ollie 1,059]

I would imagine Bruckheimer would just have Klaus Badelt come back and do what he did on the first POTC film.

[booboobasher 0]

Interesting. I'm not sure I like the idea of Burton directing, the best thing about it is we would probably get an Elfman score. I'm not Elfman's biggest fan, but he's a lot better that He Who Must Not Be Named.

I don't like the brother idea at all. They've already got a great foil for Jack with Barbossa, just let the two of them go at it.

John Debney's Cuttthroat Island is a far better soundtrack. That's what I call pirate music! I wonder what Debney could do with POC4

[Wojo 2,453]

Make something that sounds too derivative of Cutthroat Island and be criticized for it. Debney knows better than to climb aboard this pirate ship. Besides, Zimmer did get it right for Pirates 3.

[John Crichton 4]

Even I'll admit that AWE is better than your average Zimmer score, and the best in the series.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

Me and some other people have actually been working on a storyline for a PotC prequel.

It is my personal opinion that if our story is finished and filmed, it will make for a very good film.

The story will explore some of Jack's past, but not explain everything.

And there's also a touch of Mutiny on the Bounty in there.

Not to mention treasure hunting, a voyage visiting many parts of the world, a siege of a city and more.

See here: http://forum.piratesahoy.net//index.php?showtopic=10925

[MSM 126]

Were there already 3?

[Wojo 2,453]

Then that wouldn't be Pirates 4, it'd be Pirates 0 or Pirates₀.

Although if Airplane 2 was called "Airplane 2: The Sequel," I suppose you could have "Pirates of the Caribbean 4: The Prequel."

I'm just trying to bring some of the stupid zaniness of the 900 page Indiana Jones thread to some of the other threads.

And, of course, I'm always just...

[indy4 155]

Spreading the love.

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

Can't they just gather seven ghostwriters? As long as Hansi provides a simplistic rip-off theme in D minor to justify the ad "Music by Hans Zimmer", people will buy it.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Were there already 3?

Do you watch movies?

[MSM 126]

Were there already 3?

Do you watch movies?

I watch real movies.

[Richard Penna 3,695]

Real? How do you define "real"?

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

Too bad Keanu didn't take the battery - he could have used the energy.