What Grinds Your Gears?

[Corellian2019 386]

I'll start. For me, one trend in some of today's catalog titles on DVD that REALLY needs to stop is when the DVD producer(s) essentially don't know what they have in terms of original score when they're compiling interfaces and supplements.

Case in point: in summer 2007, when the Blade Runner special editions were announced, it didn't take that long for rumors then news of the "Blade Runner Trilogy", a new 3-disc soundtrack with all-new music to appear, fueling speculation as to what music would be included and whether it would really be the complete score (as many had prayed). Sadly, that didn't turn out to be the case, with only the 2nd disc providing a bunch of previously unreleased cues, but not the whole shebang. What was included definitely WAS excellent and sounded great, but when you consider the 3-disc layout and the fact that a CD can hold 80 minutes, you can't help but be disappointed. And what REALLY added insult to injury was the fact that the DVD production team had access to all the music (including source cues!) heard in the film at their disposal, and didn't realize that the 3-CD Trilogy was coming out; so as a result, one got to hear beautiful cues during interviews that appeared nowhere else, not even on the Trilogy. To this day, I maintain that DVD rips of the unreleased music from the DVD featurettes and deleted scenes could substantially compliment the 3-disc Trilogy.

Unfortunately, history repeated itself one year later with the long-awaited release of the so-called "Indiana Jones Complete Soundtracks Collection" that was still missing a number of cues from each film, leaving happy yet anguished fans to create their own edits. Of course, whatever unreleased material was included sounded GREAT, but then again, it still smacked of missed opportunities.

So, to recap, whatever pain and disappointment Indy fans are going through right now because of an incomplete box set, we BR fanatics went through a year ago.

And you know what the funny part is? Both soundtrack sets belonged to movies starring Harrison Ford!

[Bryant Burnette 654]

In a perfect world, yes, we'd all be able to have every note that we wanted from every single movie.

It's not a perfect world.

As poorly as these things sell, you -- oops, sorry, I meant we -- are lucky that any scores get released. Try the "cup half full" approach; life will be considerably more fun that way.

[John Crichton 4]

The plusses of the new Indy set far outweigh the minuses.

[Marian Schedenig 8,207]

Or the one.

[Red 75]

The plusses of the new Indy set far outweigh the minuses.

Yes.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

You know what really grinds my gears? You America, f**k you!

I hope at least one person here will understand that

[bondo 33]

What grinds my gears is when the unreleased music is better than what's presented on the CD. You're left wondering why they chose certain tracks instead of other ones.

Case in point: I made my own hour-long CD of Star Trek: Nemesis that is a far more consistent listen than the OST. It doesn't have the long gaps of quiet, synthetic sounds that made the OST a boring listen. The Godzilla promo was another CD with questionable track choices.

It also grinds my gears when people refer to a score based solely on its' OST presentation and not the actual score. I HATED the Die Another Day OST, but the full score is a much greater improvement.

[indy4 155]

So, to recap, whatever...Indy fans are going through right now...

Delight and happiness?

[Richard Penna 3,694]

When an OST is released that just contains songs, and at most, one randomly chosen score cue. These compilations have no business being labelled Original Motion Picture Soundtrack. Unless the songs were all written specifically for the movie (and most aren't), there's nothing original on that CD.

Also, if you have a huge hit movie like Spider-Man 3 (which has my favourite score of the franchise so far), keep paying consumers guessing, and finally announce "Sorry, we're not releasing this score at all. Not saying why, sorry". Do they seriously expect us to just sit back and say 'fine'?

It's dangerous around here to even start talking about the KotCS DVD, with its team clearly having access to the complete score.

It's a bit of a deep issue really. The ideal world for me is all recording sessions placed online securely somewhere that paying subscribers can access them, but that's just a dream.

I think a far more realistic idea is just if studios such as Universal, who I understand for whatever reason don't like opening their vaults, would just acknowledge if they can't be bothered to release their scores themselves and license it to a label that actually gives a crap. Like that UK company that holds the rights to some Goldsmith (?) scored film and basically told Intrada, Varese etc to f**k off.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

You know what really grinds my gears? You America, f**k you!

I hope at least one person here will understand that

Believe it or not, I do. I actually liked that episode.

[John Crichton 4]

Or the one.

I was thinking of that when I typed it.

You know what burns me? Microedits!

[Corellian2019 386]

You know what really grinds my gears? You America, f**k you!

I hope at least one person here will understand that

That's why I chose to name this thread that way.

Oh, and I'd just like to say a word. Testicles. That is all.

[Morn 8]

Yeah thanks to universal, we still don't have a complete Spartacus.

Also it's old style thinking that there is so much unreleased music, the age of the CD is over, yet every album is produced around fitting into a 80 minute CD.

We should be seeing complete releases online in flac. This is 2008, there is no longer a limit to an album size.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

Many people on here still relish CDs, and quite a few refuse to touch any form of boot/promo.

So while I completely agree with you, many still want CD releases, despite the fact that it means many scores are financially non-viable. It's a battle between a modern approach, and old school.

Yeah thanks to universal, we still don't have a complete Spartacus.

Can anyone tell me in less than 500 words why we don't see scores from Universal? I've never fully understood the reasons, only that their vaults are hard to access.

[Henry B 50]

Not to mention countless tapes were destroyed in that fire a few months ago.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

"Jurassic Park" and the "The Lost World: Jurassic Park" are safe, yes?

[Red 75]

In a perfect world, yes, we'd all be able to have every note that we wanted from every single movie.

It's not a perfect world.

That would be impossible since some people prefer to have complete releases with all the music while others would rather have incomplete albums that make for a better listening experience.

[Henry B 50]

"Jurassic Park" and the "The Lost World: Jurassic Park" are safe, yes?

Nobody knows, really. The official word is that only copies were destroyed, but Lukas Kendall at FSM heard differently. I'd imagine the Jurassic Park scores are preserved digitally somewhere.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

I believe Herr Olivarez once made a comment that went something along the lines of "I would much rather whine about what should have not been included than whine about what was omitted."

[John Crichton 4]

Not to mention countless tapes were destroyed in that fire a few months ago.

From what we were told those were LP masters and not the 1st generation masters from recording sessions. From what we were told.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

I hope that what we were told was correct.

[Hitch 57]

According to a recent Universal statement which I've read, over 25,000 archive tapes were destroyed in the fire mostly the John Williams, Hans Zimmer and Pia Zadora files. In other news from the Universal fault, you'll all be happy to know that the Bernard Herrmann and James Horner archive tapes survived without a scratch.

[indy4 155]

I sense foul play...

[Corellian2019 386]

Here's another issue that I'm sure a lot of you have heard: isolated scores excluded from Region 1 DVDs!

For instance, I'm a huge fan of the score for "The Fifth Element", and, seeing how Luc Besson's two other American films had isolated scores, I very much desired it for the Ultimate Edition, but it sadly didn't appear. So imagine my surprise when, three years later, I accidentally stumble upon information of the Region 2 Japanese DVD for "The Fifth Element", released back in '98, containing none other than a 2.0 isolated score.

Now that found an international release that has it, all I have to figure out is how to read the basics on how to order from amazon.com.jp All to get my hands on something that should've made available here in the States! F*%#in' Sony Home Entertainment! How can you deny Americans such a pleasure?!

[Richard Penna 3,694]

Yes... only including isolated scores in some regions is annoying.

Most of the time it's actually isos only on R1, although we Brits do have our fair share of scores to ourselves... Glory, Erin Brockovich ( ), Bicentennial Man.

[Wojo 2,453]

We should get complete scores full of unreleased material that are pitch adjusted to fit onto a single 80-minute CD. It's a win-win situation for everyone. We get our added music, and the labels only need to hawk a single one-disc presentation. Everyone wins.

[King Mark 3,631]

I'll tell you what grinds my gear:

Microedits: Anakin's Dark Deeds and Mischief Managed

Missing highlights on OST's : Sirius Escapes

Incomplete Finales:RotS ,HPSS

Canada Post

[Morn 8]

Not to mention countless tapes were destroyed in that fire a few months ago.

Anyone know what was lost? Goldsmith, herrmann, williams ok? Alex North? Spartacus please be ok! Where is spartacus!

[Corellian2019 386]

Has anyone on this board bought anything from one of Amazon's foreign divisions (i.e. Amazon Japan, Germany, France, etc.)?

[Ollie 1,059]

No but I've heard good things from those that have bought thru Amazon Japan.

At one time I would have a long list of things that irritate me about soundtrack releases and missing music.

But thanks to the internet and info provided by Lukas Kendall, Doug Fake, Robert Townson, Bruce Kimmel, Michael Matessino, Nick Redman, Ford Thaxton and several others I have a better understanding of how and why things work and the decisions behind the scenes.

While it doesn't answer every question it provides enough info to not worry about these things.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Before my Internet days I really hated Varese because in the 80's and 90's they produced a lot of soundtracks of around 30 minutes.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

At one time I would have a long list of things that irritate me about soundtrack releases and missing music.

But thanks to the internet and info provided by Lukas Kendall, Doug Fake, Robert Townson, Bruce Kimmel, Michael Matessino, Nick Redman, Ford Thaxton and several others I have a better understanding of how and why things work and the decisions behind the scenes.

While it doesn't answer every question it provides enough info to not worry about these things.

This is a post a lot of people should read thoroughly and think deeply about.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Before my Internet days I really hated Varese because in the 80's and 90's they produced a lot of soundtracks of around 30 minutes.

They still do, it's annoying. Their score's are usually 40 minutes long.

[Corellian2019 386]

I have a general rule about soundtrack releases (occasionally it can be broken), based on the film's running time: if it's a two-hour movie and you're getting 15 tracks or less on the album, you're probably not getting all of the music.

If it's a THREE-hour movie, and the soundtrack album has 15 tracks or less, you're DEFINITELY not getting all of the music.

[paleo 63]

Has anyone on this board bought anything from one of Amazon's foreign divisions (i.e. Amazon Japan, Germany, France, etc.)?

Sure, do it all the time (Amazon.de). It's nice to have the choice between the European offer and that of the States. Amazon.de is very reliable (and shipping and handling is free of charge within Germany and to most of the neighboring countries if you order for more than 20 Euro - and it usually arrives the next day, not after a week or so as it frequently happens to me in the US; but that won't help you much, I guess ;-))

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

When tracks are edited, and when the best parts of those cues are left off. For instance:

"Platform Nine-And-Three-Quarters" - doesn't include the music when Harry sees the train

"Entry Into The Great Hall" - doesn't include the music when they actually enter the hall

"Palpatine's Teachings" - no comment

[Corellian2019 386]

Sure, do it all the time (Amazon.de). It's nice to have the choice between the European offer and that of the States. Amazon.de is very reliable (and shipping and handling is free of charge within Germany and to most of the neighboring countries if you order for more than 20 Euro - and it usually arrives the next day, not after a week or so as it frequently happens to me in the US; but that won't help you much, I guess ;-))

Wait, so you live in Germany?

When tracks are edited, and when the best parts of those cues are left off.

Oh, hell yes! Like in Minority Report:

-Anderton's Great Escape (towards the end, the album version inexplicably drops the drum music when Witwer sees Anderton inside the car after the factory fight) Why?!

[paleo 63]

Sure, do it all the time (Amazon.de). It's nice to have the choice between the European offer and that of the States. Amazon.de is very reliable (and shipping and handling is free of charge within Germany and to most of the neighboring countries if you order for more than 20 Euro - and it usually arrives the next day, not after a week or so as it frequently happens to me in the US; but that won't help you much, I guess ;-))

Wait, so you live in Germany?

No, but I frequently visit home, e.g. for Christmas. I usually have a couple of things waiting for me every time :-)

[Corellian2019 386]

Ah, lucky you.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

I have a general rule about soundtrack releases (occasionally it can be broken), based on the film's running time: if it's a two-hour movie and you're getting 15 tracks or less on the album, you're probably not getting all of the music.

If it's a THREE-hour movie, and the soundtrack album has 15 tracks or less, you're DEFINITELY not getting all of the music.

If the latter, you're usually getting nothing more than a compilation of highlights, most of which are probably alternates. The LotR OSTs for example.

My general rule is the lower profile a score/composer, the longer the score release will be. To cite an utterly random example, Edmund Choi's score for The Dish is represented nearly complete on album. Had that movie been bigger budget and scored by an a-lister, there would've been more 60s songs on the album and probably one score track.

[Corellian2019 386]

If the latter, you're usually getting nothing more than a compilation of highlights, most of which are probably alternates. The LotR OSTs for example.

My general rule is the lower profile a score/composer, the longer the score release will be. To cite an utterly random example, Edmund Choi's score for The Dish is represented nearly complete on album. Had that movie been bigger budget and scored by an a-lister, there would've been more 60s songs on the album and probably one score track.

Or it can go both ways. To cite another example, the official album for "The Ice Storm" featured a bunch of 70s songs, one score track, and one suite. Then there was the mp3 album for "The Ice Storm/Chosen: Music from the Films of Ang Lee", which was pure original score. Funny thing is, I don't understand why the score album is only available as a download instead of a physical CD.

[Trent B 337]

I have never quite get why some scores are download only. Why not just put them out on CD? Surely they'd make just as much on the CD format as they would with the download.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

Costs maybe?

Pressing a CD, making artwork etc is going to be vastly more expensive than just selling some digital files to a store. I'm amazed more don't do that.

Or it can go both ways. To cite another example, the official album for "The Ice Storm" featured a bunch of 70s songs, one score track, and one suite. Then there was the mp3 album for "The Ice Storm/Chosen: Music from the Films of Ang Lee", which was pure original score. Funny thing is, I don't understand why the score album is only available as a download instead of a physical CD.

For some reason the words 'official album' send shivers down my spine, although mostly when it's connected with TV, because it generally means you won't see any score on it. I'm afraid my cynicism of the industry is at an all time high these days.

[Corellian2019 386]

I'm afraid my cynicism of the industry is at an all time high these days.

On an all-time hiiiggghhh, we'll take on the world and win! So hold on tight *da-dum* let the flight *da-dum* be-giinnn

Sorry, couldn't resist.

For some reason the words 'official album' send shivers down my spine, although mostly when it's connected with TV, because it generally means you won't see any score on it.

Or, like in the case of Twin Peaks, you will get at least 10 tracks of original score, but a couple of key themes will be left off.

[Corellian2019 386]

Another thing that's bothered me ever since I first got into film scores, is how composers will include plenty of unused music on the official release but leave out music that's actually used in the film.

And I'm not talking about a small variation on a track that was heard in the film; no, no, I'm talking about music that you will not hear one note of during the film.

[Trent B 337]

I actually don't mind unused music. A lot of unused music can be interesting, especially with complete scores.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

I like it. It must be rough spending a lot of time recording music only for it not to be used, so to see it out there where it can be heard is pretty cool.

It's probably a logistics issue, too. There must be times when the score is recorded, and the soundtrack is locked down, only for the filmmakers to change a sequence at the last minute and want new (or re-edited) music for the sequence. Kind of like when Lucas changed the end of TPM at the last minute after Ron Howard and Spielberg told him to.

[Corellian2019 386]

I actually don't mind unused music. A lot of unused music can be interesting, especially with complete scores.

I don't mind either, but when it's a complete score.

When it's a mass-market score album, where track space is precious, it irritates me when I hear unused material replace entire music cues that were in the film.

[Trent B 337]

Okay, don't quite understand that logic. I would rather have the intended cue rather than the hacked up film version.

[Corellian2019 386]

Okay, don't quite understand that logic. I would rather have the intended cue rather than the hacked up film version.

Wait. You misunderstand me.

I'm talking about music that appears in the film.

When music that appears in the film is not included on the album, it's bothersome, but it's even more bothersome to me when, on a soundtrack album, said music is ditched in favor of including music that never appeared in the film at all.