What Is The Last Film You Watched?

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Tonight I watched Hannibal.

Love me some Ridley Scott and Hans.

The best part of the score (for me) is Patrick Cassidy's work. The Mahler-esque strings at the end of the film are really good too.

Yes it is a very excellent piece. The rest of the score is excellent too IMO. After all, Mark owns it! It may not please some people to know that Joker's theme was derived from here, though.

[Ollie 1,059]

Mark owns it for the Patrick Cassidy cue.

[A24 4,338]

The cue makes a reappearance in Kingdom Of Heaven.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Yes isn't Frenzy a forgotten gem!? Some amazing camerawork - the slow pull back from the apartment buidling to the London street is a particular highlight. Some great cominc moments with the police chief and his wife's cooking too.

Needless to say Ron Goodwin's score deserves a full release sooner rather than later.

I still wish Henry Mancini got to do it....

[Neimoidian 14]

Tonight I watched Hannibal.

Love me some Ridley Scott and Hans.

The best part of the score (for me) is Patrick Cassidy's work. The Mahler-esque strings at the end of the film are really good too.

Yes it is a very excellent piece. The rest of the score is excellent too IMO. After all, Mark owns it! It may not please some people to know that Joker's theme was derived from here, though.

It's a great score, indeed. I must admit I like Hopkins' monologues on the album and I rarely enjoy things like that.

[Morlock 11]

The cue makes a reappearance in Kingdom Of Heaven.

Unfortunately so. I think it's a great piece, but it was really jarring to hear it in a different context (Same with the Goldsmith piece). As I've said before, I think it's the icing on the cake. Hannibal is a wonderful score, and that's a great cherry on top.

Saw I'll Sleep When I'm Dead (2004), Mike Hodges and Clive Owen's second effort, after Croupier. It's got an attractive ambient, but has a really weird and unconvincing plot, with generally boring characters.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Tonight I watched Hannibal.

Love me some Ridley Scott and Hans.

The best part of the score (for me) is Patrick Cassidy's work. The Mahler-esque strings at the end of the film are really good too.

Yes it is a very excellent piece. The rest of the score is excellent too IMO. After all, Mark owns it! It may not please some people to know that Joker's theme was derived from here, though.

It's a great score, indeed. I must admit I like Hopkins' monologues on the album and I rarely enjoy things like that.

I think it was Zimmer's idea to keep it on the album. Or if it wasn't, he approved of it. Although it kills the second Gladiator album, and I know he didn't approve of it there.

[Wojo 2,453]

Why'd they make a second Gladiator album anyways? Is it because Braveheart got a second score+dialog album?

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Well it's a very popular score. I'm not complaining, more music is always a good thing.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

More music is always a good thing.

Mm, not necessarily.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Well I think it is. If the extra music doesn't tickle your fancy, then no harm done, but others may like it.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

I was tempted to make that post of mine a link to Cutthroat Island to illustrate my point, but I decided not to. I am going to be honest, I believe very strongly in the "listening experience" perspective, and I am almost never dissatisfied with John Williams' album choices.

[Wojo 2,453]

Well the nice thing about Cutthroat Island in the complete form is that one can replay the entire excellent movie as mental images, without having to jumble a bunch of condensed cues around and be missing things.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I was tempted to make that post of mine a link to Cutthroat Island to illustrate my point, but I decided not to. I am going to be honest, I believe very strongly in the "listening experience" perspective, and I am almost never dissatisfied with John Williams' album choices.

I like a good listening experience too, but you can also pick out your favorite cues and make a playlist.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

we took some of Dave's nephews to see Transformers 2, thank goodness they were well behaved. One like it one did not. Dave and I did not like it either. It was perhaps the worst monster budgeted film ever made. Why did the carrier #74 get sunk only to come back as the Carrier Stennis #74, or why did they go to Washington, and then when the doors get busted down end up in Arizona. Also how did they go from probably Libya to Jordan and back to Cairo in such a short time.

Then we saw Defiance, it was the low fat version of Schindler's List.

Finally saw Friday the 13th, lots of boobs in the movies, both female and the characters themselves, yet it was better than Transformers 2.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Transformers: Revenge Of The Fallen

Honestly, it wasn't as bad as I expected. It's pretty much the same formula except doubled. So the cringe-worthy parts are twice as bad but the action parts are twice as explosive and Michael Bay-sive. Jablonsky's score was a let down, there weren't any great epic moments where the themes kicked in. The final fight in Mission City from the first is better than anything in this film. That is one superb action scene/finale.

[indy4 155]

The final fight in Mission City from the first is better than anything in this film. That is one superb action scene/finale.

By the twentieth hour of that last fight scene, I wanted to shoot myself.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

More like 20 minutes. Great action, great Transformer "acting," great music.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

The one good thing about it was the call to arms: "All Hail Megatron!"

Otherwise, it was brainless incoherent masturbation. And then Shia saves the day.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Incoherent my ass!

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Was Shia the one to the left or right of the American flag, the camera angles were too confusing for me to tell.

"Nick", who could not resist

[Charlie Brigden 7]

I liked "GI Joe on a motorbike". That was entertainingly stupid.

[A24 4,338]

More music is always a good thing.

Mm, not necessarily.

Indeed, masterpieces are masterpieces because the artist was selective (not that Hans ever created a masterpiece, mind you). 'More' always results in opening the door to mediocrity. The albums fanboys are compiling simply don't exist.

Jackie Brown: QT's most restrained film. It's underrated and I should know because I once belonged to the group that underestimated it.

Alex

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Indeed, masterpieces are masterpieces because the artist was selective (not that Hans ever created a masterpiece, mind you). 'More' always results in opening the door to mediocrity. The albums fanboys are compiling simply don't exist.

This makes no fucking sense. That means a film score is never a masterpiece, it's constrained album is.

[A24 4,338]

I'm talking about albums. "More music" only leads to hurting the album. Not every single cue or note of a film score is a masterpiece. It's knowing how to cut away the fat.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

I'm talking about albums.

I agree with Alex, to a certain degree. There are few complete scores I actually listen to, and while there are certainly ones I've compiled myself (hey, I'm a fanboy), some scores just don't befit being issued in their complete form, for whatever reason. This isn't to say I agree with a lot of OSTs, because many of them are poorly put together and edited. But I have no interest in three or four discs of score for listening purposes myself, although I do find enjoyment in studying alternate/rejected pieces, the way I do with deleted scenes of films. But there is a certain art to the album release that perhaps gets neglected amongst score enthusiasts.

[Hlao-roo 389]

Not every single cue or note of a film score is a masterpiece.

Few notes in isolation are masterpieces.

[mahler3 478]

Yes isn't Frenzy a forgotten gem!? Some amazing camerawork - the slow pull back from the apartment buidling to the London street is a particular highlight. Some great cominc moments with the police chief and his wife's cooking too.

Needless to say Ron Goodwin's score deserves a full release sooner rather than later.

I still wish Henry Mancini got to do it....

Yes Mancini did nail it when it comes to the suspense and sombre tone, but I can understand why Hitchcock wanted a more stately approach and Goodwin supplied a very worthy replacement.

Both main titles with each respective score is a great example of film scoring which apparently is used frequently in tutorials as a comparison. Laurent focused on it during his excellent DVD doc too.

[A24 4,338]

Not every single cue or note of a film score is a masterpiece.

Few notes in isolation are masterpieces.

You don't say!

[Henry B 50]

While I appreciate the album experience, Alex, who are you (who is anyone) to decide the one, true presentation of a score?

[A24 4,338]

While I appreciate the album experience, Alex, who are you (who is anyone) to decide the one, true presentation of a score?

The artist decides the presentation. It's a lost art form these days, I'm afraid.

[Henry B 50]

The artist is usually limited by financial and space requirements when compiling an LP/CD. Sometimes the composer makes it clear that the album represents his intended listening experience. Sometimes he doesn't, or even voices dissatisfaction with it. I wouldn't make any blanket statements about the issue.

[A24 4,338]

The artist is usually limited by financial and space requirements when compiling an LP/CD.

I don't think that the word "usually" is true. Radiohead, Pink Floyd, Bob Dylon, Neil Young, The Rolling Stones, Genesis, Coldplay, John Williams, Pearl Jam, U2, Sigur Ros, Sufjan Stevens ... they are all in command when it comes to how their albums will be presented to the audience. They care enormously for the listening experience. They know the format of their canvas. Perhaps it's different in film music world but I don't think there's one film composer who wants to have every note of a two-hour score on CD.

Alex

[Charlie Brigden 7]

If U2 cared for the listening experience they'd stop making music.

[A24 4,338]

So true!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Gojira

Words can barely express how this film influenced my childhood. It was perfect timing that this film was released two years after American media control in Japan had ceased, and as a result, it's like an expression of national therapy as exemplified by Dr. Serizawa's character creating a weapon equally as powerful as the atomic bomb, and being able to defeat the mutated menace that is seemingly unstoppable. The dilemma that he, Emiko and Ogata face (in this inevitable love triangle) demonstrates the post-war nuclear anxiety of the 1950's, but the Japanese trauma of World War II especially. The special effects may be crude, but they're enhanced by the darkly lit sets and black and white photography, it's almost a non-issue. The ending where Serizawa and Ogata are lowered into the ocean to use the oxygen destroyer on Godzilla has a strange dream-like quality with Ifukube's music creating an unsettling and eerie atmosphere. It's a triumph in every regard, not only because it launched a seemingly unending franchise that veered way off course, but because it's a meaningful metaphor of a national zeitgeist that hasn't lost its relevance.

Godzilla: King of the Monsters

I couldn't help laughing through this. It completely obliterates the message of the uncut version, the dubbing is atrocious, and the inserts with Raymond Burr are awkwardly assembled and edited. However, Burr himself playing an American news reporter is a class act, and besides this version's major flaws, it's actually interesting to have an outside view of the events that take place in the original version. Besides, it only makes sense that the whole world would be covering this catastrophe, and the film has more international contents and references than the Japanese original.

Godzilla 1985

This was actually the first Godzilla film I ever saw, but I can't help but look at it differently today. It feels more like an 80's Cold War relic than a full-on kaiju film, but that's mostly due to the American inserts. I actually wonder how Raymond Burr really felt about these movies besides the quick paychecks, because besides Nick Adams, he's really the only American actor associated with these movies for Western audiences. He's portrayed as the wise old geezer who knows everything about the beast and even though he does nothing but stand and stare at a large monitor at the Pentagon, he plays it like he's facing the angel of death a second time. The special effects are spectacular, and the ending really sets up a certain kind of sympathy that the audience would feel towards Godzilla throughout the entire Heisei series, and it's wonderful to see that develop. It's also fun to note that Burr's character says it would be prudent to communicate with him, which is exactly what the Miki Saegusa character attempts to do for the rest of the series.

[Wojo 2,453]

The artist is usually limited by financial and space requirements when compiling an LP/CD.

I don't think that the word "usually" is true. Radiohead, Pink Floyd, Bob Dylon, Neil Young, The Rolling Stones, Genesis, Coldplay, John Williams, Pearl Jam, U2, Sigur Ros, Sufjan Stevens ... they are all in command when it comes to how their albums will be presented to the audience. They care enormously for the listening experience. They know the format of their canvas. Perhaps it's different in film music world but I don't think there's one film composer who wants to have every note of a two-hour score on CD.

Alex

I think I know where you're going with this, but I think there's a key difference between a studio rock album, as created by the artists you listed above, and a movie score album. The rock album is...what it is. There isn't anything else. There aren't any songs missing because the album is not a distillation of a larger work. There is no larger work, the album is all you get. (I'm not considering greatest hits albums, they don't count as albums.)

I'm not talking about the reissued/remastered versions of classic albums that we have today, where they add outtake songs, B-sides, live songs, and other rarities. Genesis and The Who have done this in recent years.

Another exception would be if the band adds a few songs, sound effects, and/or dialogue during a live performance onstage, to enhance the live experience. Genesis' seminal "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway" is a good example. The liner notes provide a ton of exposition in between songs, that Gabriel might or might not have uttered in between songs, but all of that interlude would be omitted from a studio album release.

But if your album is a live rock album, like The Allman Brothers' "Live at the Fillmore East," well, that album IS the distillation of a larger work: a live rock concert. So you have the earliest LP which had a few songs in the order that the band wanted. Then you get a reissue decades later that remasters the songs, adds some more, and resequences them to match the order of the concert. Maybe the complete recording didn't exist, or the owners of the music just wanted to tap the market with some new stuff. The Allmans did that with that album. Peter Frampton did it too with ...Comes Live!, though I'm not sure that the Frampton example actually helps the argument. Some of the extra added songs are good, while others are really just filler. The first disc is all good stuff, but that doesn't leave room for the only necessary song on disc 2, Do You Feel Like We Do.

Ok, enough rock ramble. A soundtrack album is much like a live rock album, in that it is also the distillation of a larger work: the score to the movie itself. In that regard, the artist writes two hours of music for a 2.5 hour movie, but only 45 minutes end up on album. Why? A number of reasons, which have beaten to death here. Then someday later, they release a "More Music from blank" album, or a complete/extended version. It's up to the consumer which representation they prefer, just the same as with the live rock albums. Do you really need all the extra Cutthroat Island music, or is the OST tight enough for you? If Howard Shore and TLOTR sucks for you, then you probably don't need the three or four disc representations that play the movie in your head on autopilot, and the OST is sufficient. Did we really need (about) every last minute of the Star Wars film scores spread over six discs, or was the four-disc 93 Anthology just enough? Do you really need a 23 minute long Whole Lotta Love jam session on the How the West Was Won compilation, or is the original album or any of a few live versions enough? And for some scores, the OST is probably enough, just as I'm a big rock fan, but there are certainly some live concert albums that are puffed out with too much filler and too long for their own good.

[A24 4,338]

Well, wojo, you being a pop music fan and all, you probably know that the pop album is often also a part of "a larger work". It's a strict selection of a certain amount of songs (usually the best ones or the ones that fit the overall concept the most) that the artist wrote for the occasion. Yes, we are unaware of the ones that didn't make the release and that is I guess the whole difference with film music. Still, what the film composer does when he's compiling his album is in no way different from what pop artists do when they make a selection.

Alex - who never rambles

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I'll still stand by that more music is always a good thing. If the extra music is not something you like, seriously there is no harm done. But if there were a couple of really great cues you wanted that didn't make the album? IMO there are only a handful of truly superb albums that don't have any down time or uninteresting cues.

[Marian Schedenig 8,200]

Well, wojo, you being a pop music fan and all, you probably know that the pop album is often also a part of "a larger work".

There's a difference. If a "pop" album is produced by writing a large set of songs and then selecting a few for refinement to make the album, they've never been part of a full work. The discarded songs are like alternates or sketches. But if you take a concept album and remove songs for the CD release, you have a similar situation as with soundtracks.

And the problem isn't a new one. For example, everyone knows Grieg's Peer Gynt suites. But how many people actually know the full music to the play? It's wonderful, but rarely performed, because like film music its Gebrauchsmusik nature makes people assume that it's not a worthy piece of art by itself and has to be edited to be listened to on its own. Luckily, such works *are* (occasionally) being performed and recorded these days.

[Datameister 2,044]

I'll still stand by that more music is always a good thing. If the extra music is not something you like, seriously there is no harm done. But if there were a couple of really great cues you wanted that didn't make the album? IMO there are only a handful of truly superb albums that don't have any down time or uninteresting cues.

I agree wholeheartedly - though I'm a little surprised to hear you saying this, because I could swear you presented a rather different opinion a while back. Perhaps my mind is playing tricks on me. Anyway, certainly the overall listening experience can suffer when every moment of music is presented in chronological order. But I prefer to have the paring down left to the listener. I don't need the composer or album producer or whoever to dictate to me which music I can and can't legally listen to. Like anyone with a computer, I can easily create my own playlists, and like anyone who takes a little time to learn free editing software like Audacity, I can have fun creating all the microedits and unnecessary transitions between unrelated cues I want. Providing all of the music unadulterated gives the listener freedom to listen to it how they want to. Providing only some of it (and edited for aesthetic purposes) limits the listener to one specific re-interpretation of the film score.

As we've discussed before, I'd prefer that the actual CD releases stay about the same as they currently are but with a slightly elevated price, and then they include codes for downloading unedited and complete versions. Best of both worlds without the cost of a second disc.

[A24 4,338]

I don't need the composer or album producer or whoever to dictate to me which music I can and can't legally listen to.

This totally disgusts me! You show so little respect for the artist and his vision. Luckily, the art of creating is not up to fanboys like you and Koray. What's next? Shall we overwrite the wishes of the filmmaker and create our own fan cut of movies?! How conceited can you get?

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Me, a fanboy? Bahahahaha!

[Datameister 2,044]

This totally disgusts me! You show so little respect for the artist and his vision. Luckily, the art of creating is not up to fanboys like you and Koray....How conceited can you get?

Yeah, I'm a pretty disgusting and disrespectful and conceited person...shame on me for enjoying the music enough to want to hear it!

[Red 75]

Me, a fanboy? Bahahahaha!

Absolutely.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

The guy who was happy with the Temple Of Doom OST is a fanboy?

[Delorean90 42]

I don't need the composer or album producer or whoever to dictate to me which music I can and can't legally listen to.

This totally disgusts me! You show so little respect for the artist and his vision. Luckily, the art of creating is not up to fanboys like you and Koray. What's next? Shall we overwrite the wishes of the filmmaker and create our own fan cut of movies?! How conceited can you get?

Yes and yes.

Alex, we're not concerned about the art of creating--Williams and his peers have done a fine job of that. It's album producing we're concerned with. So you're saying that Williams didn't have any creative vision whatsoever when he wrote "Airplane Fight" or the full length "Desert Chase"? I mean, why wasn't it included? Frankly, I don't much understand the whole "reediting for an ideal listening experience"--generally. There may be a score where there was so little thematic development that you'd have literal repetition all over the place, and I can understand a composer's reasonings for not wanting to include that. But something like the Star Wars scores or Indiana Jones scores, where virtually every cue is either a set piece or has some kind of interesting thematic material (or both)? That's a much different story. For years I wanted the "Through the Wall" cue (I refuse to call it "Indy Rides the Statue." Sorry.), but, silly me, why should I want that? It wasn't included!

The full score is part of the composer's ouevre. If people want to hear it, why should it be left off? And what really boggles my mind is how a track that is artificially edited into something else after the cue is recorded is somehow more artistically legitimate than the actual cue that was originally written and performed.

[Henry B 50]

The artist is usually limited by financial and space requirements when compiling an LP/CD.

I don't think that the word "usually" is true. Radiohead, Pink Floyd, Bob Dylon, Neil Young, The Rolling Stones, Genesis, Coldplay, John Williams, Pearl Jam, U2, Sigur Ros, Sufjan Stevens ... they are all in command when it comes to how their albums will be presented to the audience. They care enormously for the listening experience. They know the format of their canvas. Perhaps it's different in film music world but I don't think there's one film composer who wants to have every note of a two-hour score on CD.

John Williams aside, film composers are almost always limited by an initial album release of less than eighty minutes. Are you sure that all scores longer than eighty minutes would be as shortened for the album if a composer was given two or three CDs to work with? What about composers that are supportive of expanded releases of their scores? (I think even Williams took an interest in a few of these.) You could say that without limitations the artists would let their presentations become bloated and untrimmed, which is possible, but on the other hand, is there not a single film score that is worthy to be spread over two discs? Is there not a single film score in which every note reflects the composer's intent for a musically cohesive work; does everything always have to be cut down?

[Marian Schedenig 8,200]

I don't need the composer or album producer or whoever to dictate to me which music I can and can't legally listen to.

This totally disgusts me! You show so little respect for the artist and his vision. Luckily, the art of creating is not up to fanboys like you and Koray. What's next? Shall we overwrite the wishes of the filmmaker and create our own fan cut of movies?! How conceited can you get?

To compare with the "edited for album" soundtrack situation, you'd have to assume that the movie was first released (e.g. theatrically) in a full version as created, likely without external interference, by the filmmakers, and then sold as shortened or heavily edited home video release. Hm, that sounds familiar...

[Wojo 2,453]

I don't need the composer or album producer or whoever to dictate to me which music I can and can't legally listen to.

This totally disgusts me! You show so little respect for the artist and his vision. Luckily, the art of creating is not up to fanboys like you and Koray. What's next? Shall we overwrite the wishes of the filmmaker and create our own fan cut of movies?! How conceited can you get?

No, a lack of respect would be displayed if somebody did not purchase the OST itself, as a way of rejecting the artist's distilled vision of his score, and simply pirate a complete bootleg around online. Fortunately we have the means to do both: buy the OST, thus respecting the artist by giving him money, and also finding a way to obtain additional music as we see fit. Or cut it up and move parts around. Or skip tracks we don't like. True, the artist isn't getting paid above and beyond his dues for the OST by trading or ripping this extra music, but it's not for sale in the first place. Put a complete work out there, and we'll buy it.

If I buy a book but only read the first ten chapters but never the rest, am I also disgusting you by showing so little respect for the author and his vision?

If I buy a painting, hang it on my wall, but cover half of it with curtains, am I also disgusting you by showing so little respect for the painter and his vision?

If I buy a board game but make my own rules, am I also disgusting you by showing so little respect for the creator and his vision?

Actually, what you suggest about editing movies intrigues me. I wonder how many more people would appreciate The Temple of Doom if the gross-out parts of the banquet and torture scenes were removed.