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Avatar (2009)


Sandor
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Pandora's environment seems to be too over saturated with colour, perhaps to give the world a deliberate fantasy styling, but I can't help but be reminded of the plastic greens seen in KotKS jungle chase.

Again, if the script is good then I don't see the visuals being a problem. Moviegoers will believe anything they see if care is taken with the preparation.

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My main reservations is why, with a planet that looks so "normal" (we have landscapes like that in our planet), and with aliens who are basically lanky humans with blue skin and pointy ears, was it necessary to use so much CGI?

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Aliens are mostly lanky. The earth is a bulging entity, it makes gross beings for purging.

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I just saw the 15 minutes that James Cameron "handpicked"

The 3D was awesome and that is all I have to say about Avatar. I hope the film succeeds in so much that we can get more 3D features in the future for the cinema and home.

Now "Inglourious Basterds" WOW!

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My main reservations is why, with a planet that looks so "normal" (we have landscapes like that in our planet), and with aliens who are basically lanky humans with blue skin and pointy ears, was it necessary to use so much CGI?

Well, yes, this is going to be a big action film and most of the action will include stunts that are impossible to perform by real people.

Again, if the script is good then I don't see the visuals being a problem. Moviegoers will believe anything they see if care is taken with the preparation.

On what is this based on, Quincy? All great SF movies have/had great visuals. Of all movie genres, it's the science fiction genre that relies the most on its visuals. There are enough examples to support this. Like I said, in SF, image is everything.

Alex

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I just saw the 15 minutes that James Cameron "handpicked"

The 3D was awesome and that is all I have to say about Avatar. I hope the film succeeds in so much that we can get more 3D features in the future for the cinema and home.

Now "Inglourious Basterds" WOW!

Any chance you can elaborate on the footage, as well as the quality of the 3D in comparison with the 3D movies released thus far?

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Pandora's environment seems to be too over saturated with colour, perhaps to give the world a deliberate fantasy styling, but I can't help but be reminded of the plastic greens seen in KotKS jungle chase.

in kotcs there is more real jungle than meets the eye.

it seems that the color in avatar has something to do with the caracteristics of the planet, bluish hues or something.

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I have not been keeping up with this at all, assuming that it's based on some sort of silly anime franchise thingamajingey.

So could somebody tell me if this IS based on something like that or if it is it's own thing entirely.

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I have not been keeping up with this at all, assuming that it's based on some sort of silly anime franchise thingamajingey.

So could somebody tell me if this IS based on something like that or if it is it's own thing entirely.

I think you mistake it for Shyamalan's The Last Airbender which original title was Avatar: The Last Airbender.

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Three things come to my mind when watching this trailer: Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within, Apocalypto and every sinle generic s-f TV series out there. It doesn't excite me one bit.

Karol

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Three things come to my mind when watching this trailer: Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within, Apocalypto and every sinle generic s-f TV series out there. It doesn't excite me one bit.

I fear that this is the film's main theme. Should we invade and take their world like we once did with the Indians? :)

Alex

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Three things come to my mind when watching this trailer: Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within, Apocalypto and every sinle generic s-f TV series out there. It doesn't excite me one bit.

I fear that this is the film's main theme. Should we invade and take their world like we once did with the Indians? :)

Alex

Yes, right. Which reminds me... Pocahontas too. :)

Karol

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Three things come to my mind when watching this trailer: Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within, Apocalypto and every sinle generic s-f TV series out there. It doesn't excite me one bit.

I fear that this is the film's main theme. Should we invade and take their world like we once did with the Indians? :)

Alex

Yes, right. Which reminds me... Pocahontas too. :)

Karol

screw horner!

We need ALAN MENKEN!

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Again, if the script is good then I don't see the visuals being a problem. Moviegoers will believe anything they see if care is taken with the preparation.

On what is this based on, Quincy? All great SF movies have/had great visuals. Of all movie genres, it's the science fiction genre that relies the most on its visuals. There are enough examples to support this. Like I said, in SF, image is everything.

Alex

Star Wars

The Neverending Story

The Dark Crystal

King Kong (1933)

Jason and the Argonauts

Flight of the Navigator

Jaws

etc etc...

All of those had/have some ropey effects.

Genre and sfx mean fuck all when it comes to audience participation and their capacity to suspend disbelief for a couple of hours. Script quality is everything.

You're talking shit.

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Ah that old chestnut, or in actual fact, [trendy] myth.

Aliens as penned by Cameron remains the biggest two fingers up to the "Cameron can't write" brigade to this day.

A so-called fan of SF doesn't know his arse from his elbow if he fails to acknowledge the fact that Aliens is rightly one the most quoted movies ever made. I'd happily take Cameron over pretty much any other working SF screenwriter when it comes to SF movies, bloody right I would.

Name me one contemporary SF screenwriter who has made a bigger impact than Cameron and I'll talk to you without laughing.

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The fact that the T-1000 can time travel is a flaw in the script, but that doesn't stop me from enjoying the movie at all.

This is, um, eye opening.

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screw horner!

We need ALAN MENKEN!

Hasn't he enough Oscars on his mantelpiece?

Name me one contemporary SF screenwriter who has made a bigger impact than Cameron and I'll talk to you without laughing.

William Shatner? "I need my pain"

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Interesting that Delgo had a long production period as well.

I hope for Cameron's sake that the box office is kinder on his film.

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Again, if the script is good then I don't see the visuals being a problem. Moviegoers will believe anything they see if care is taken with the preparation.

On what is this based on, Quincy? All great SF movies have/had great visuals. Of all movie genres, it's the science fiction genre that relies the most on its visuals. There are enough examples to support this. Like I said, in SF, image is everything.

Alex

Star Wars

The Neverending Story

The Dark Crystal

King Kong (1933)

Jason and the Argonauts

Flight of the Navigator

Jaws

etc etc...

All of those had/have some ropey effects.

Genre ans sfx mean fuck all when it comes to audience participation and their capacity to suspend disbelief for a couple of hours. Script quality is everything.

You're talking shit.

I was talking about great science fiction movies and their correlation with great visuals. These films look good. That includes the production design, the photography and yes, the 'FX' as they are a part of the visuals. Star Wars looks great. So does 2001: A Space odyssey, Solaris, Metropolis, Blade Runner, Gattaca, Alien, THX 1138 ... All of these films (except perhaps for THX 1138) are considered great science fiction movies and are known for their great visuals.

And who is talking shit here? You blame a fantasy puppet movie for having "ropey" effects! Are you for real? And Jaws is a great science fiction movie? Jeez!

Alex

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No, I was saying that genre is completely irrelevant in terms of audience acceptance of what is put in front of them. A good story is what allows people to believe what they're seeing, not good sfx. Are you trying to tell me the alien puppets in the Cantina Bar look convincing? Even the chest busting alien sequence in the seminal Alien has always looked puppet-like, but it didn't matter because people were already too gripped to care - the writing and performances had already captured their imagination infinitely more effectively than any high quality special effect ever would.

Sorry I said you were talking shit, it's just my way of expressing great disagreement.

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No, I was saying that genre is completely irrelevant in terms of audience acceptance of what is put in front of them. A good story is what allows people to believe what they're seeing, not good sfx. Are you trying to tell me the alien puppets in the Cantina Bar look convincing? Even the chest busting alien sequence in the seminal Alien has always looked puppet-like, but it didn't matter because people were already too gripped to care - the writing and performances had already captured their imagination infinitely more effectively than any high quality special effect ever would.

Sorry I said you were talking shit, it's just my way of expressing great disagreement.

The movie itself is important too but great visuals help transport us to other worlds. I hope my examples made clear to you that great visuals are undeniably inherent to the SF genre. On the other end of the spectrum, look at Zardoz and see how bad visuals (silly production design) can work against a film. I'm still waiting for you to name me a science fiction movie that is considered great (belonging to the same rank as the movies I listed above) and that has terrible visuals.

You are still talking solely about the FX in science fiction movies, but alright, that's fine by me (for argument's sake). Yes, the Cantina Bar scene certainly looks puppet-like today but it was okay in 1977. In fact, everything about Star Wars looked so good back then, that by the time we saw the Cantina Bar scene, we were able to forgive some of the lesser executed creatures. I do not share your feelings about the chest bursting scene in Alien. That scene is a classic. I admit, the little monster didn't look all that fearsome but I never looked upon it as a bad puppet. In any case, the way how it eated its way through Kane's stomach was visually very sane, quint. And I must stress this again, you may look for little flaws all you want, Alien is one amazing looking movie. The spaceship, the Giger world, the photography ... the whole production design is pure art.

Alex

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I do not disagree with your main point, on the contrary I quite agree. I think there has been some confusion, which as always is unsurprising considering that this a faceless message board conversation. Your initial comment in response to the trailer was that it looked "animated", which I read as fake, which in turn led me to believe that your were referring directly to the visual effects quality. I think it was the apparent flippancy in your remarks which sparked my defence of the trailer - you sounded like a fanboy, one who writes something off in a matter of seconds simply because it wasn't instantly visually appealing to one's often pompous tastes. It is the "if I don't like it then it must be shit" outlook, which as a non-constructive attitude, is nothing but pointless scurvy to me.

Yes visual aesthetics can often be "everything", especially in Science Fiction movies, but even the most artsy fartsy framing ever committed to celluloid means diddily squat without a good script.

And the puppets in Star Wars did look shit back in '77.

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True, yet some of the most famous classics have barely any story to speak of. They do, however, speak through their visuals. They materialize the filmmaker's vision on the screen and are layered with crucial elements and imporant themes that you can't find in their respective scripts.

Luckily, the Cantina Bar monsters were not that important for the film. It's one of the reasons why Return Of The Jedi fails, the monsters got more important.

Yes, Quint, the script was terrible too.

Anyway, I never had problems with him:

SW+alien.JPG

Alex

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And the puppets in Star Wars did look shit back in '77.

you are raping my childhood.

I have been always told that in 1977 there were not anybody who complained about 'crappy sfx'

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People like blood sausage, too. People are morons!

A.O. Scott writing in the NY Times:

"Commercial success may represent the public’s embrace of a piece of creative work, or it may just represent the vindication of a marketing strategy. In bottom-line terms, this is a distinction without a difference. A movie that people will go and see, almost as if they had no choice, is a safer business proposition than one they may have to bother thinking about. In this respect “Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen” is exemplary. It brilliantly stymies reflection, thwarts argument, arrests intelligent response. The most interesting thing about the movie — apart from Megan Fox’s outfits, I suppose — is that it has made nearly $400 million domestically."

Alex

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People like blood sausage, too. People are morons!

if blood sausages are what i think they are, they are pretty popular in Spain. :pukeface:

I dont like them... very much anyway :mellow:

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I actually didn't hate T2ROTF. I mean, it was stupid, but I came to see robots beat the stuffing out of each other, and damned if I didn't get it.

Besides, there has to be some level of quality in the movie's aspects like... the score? But seriously, I enjoyed the CG.

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I actually didn't hate T2ROTF. I mean, it was stupid, but I came to see robots beat the stuffing out of each other, and damned if I didn't get it.

Besides, there has to be some level of quality in the movie's aspects like... the score? But seriously, I enjoyed the CG.

I'll bet you're still floating on the thought, eh? Taiko: Hmm, that one robot hit the other robot. Life is good.

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Pocahontas + Smurfs = Avatar

:pukeface:

Except Gargamel is equipped with high tech weapons this time.

I'll hold judgement until after I see the film, say what you want about Cameron but he puts alot of time and effort into his films and pushes boundries. I have yet to see a Cameron film that I walked away from feeling disappointed with.

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The love story seems hopelessly over-complicated from the get go. It certainly puts an interesting twist on the "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" theme.

As long as Avatar doesn't feature a talking tree, it won't be half bad.

Pocahontas had a great score, and a great message, and butchered history for the sake of sap...but it had a talking tree...

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Avatar has some vicious big animals. No cutesey racoons on this planet moon.

Oh joy, another science fiction "moon." Not a planet, ladies and gents, but a moon. How exciting.

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I actually didn't hate T2ROTF. I mean, it was stupid, but I came to see robots beat the stuffing out of each other, and damned if I didn't get it.

Besides, there has to be some level of quality in the movie's aspects like... the score? But seriously, I enjoyed the CG.

I'll bet you're still floating on the thought, eh? Taiko: Hmm, that one robot hit the other robot. Life is good.

Oh yeah. Explosions. Fucking awesome.

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