Star Trek Vs Avatar-What Score is Better?

[Trent B 337]

Honestly I think Giacchino's theme for Nero out beats the over used danger motif that Horner does in his scores, especially for Avatar.

[Datameister 2,073]

Yeah, I actually don't really care for the Horner danger motif, which is part of why it's so disappointing that he uses it over and over and over again. I can forgive reuse of a little material if it's just too dang good to be annoyed with, but the danger motif really only merited use in one film, IMO. I'd rather listen to Nero's theme. (And to those who'd claim Nero's theme is too obvious and simple...the danger motif isn't?)

[Quintus 5,399]

There's naught wrong with power anthems just as there's naught wrong with power ballets. Just because one personally might not like 'em doesn't automatically make them inferior. I personally think the likes of Zimmer and Jablonsky have made the style repetitive, but I appreciate that lots of people like that kind of sound.

[indy4 155]

I agree. There's nothing wrong with Zimmer's sound. The problem is that 90% of composers are using it.

[Quintus 5,399]

Which is why I completely understand the criticism towards Avatar and in some ways I think Horner is even worse than Zimmer's cronies.

[SF1_freeze 131]

Star Trek was quite awful. Every good Lost episode score beats it easily. The only good thing about the Star Trek score was the original Courage theme with that counterpoint theme

in the End Credits. Oh wait that counterpoint theme happens to be the main theme of the movie! To me it sounds rather bland, mediocre and not really original or memorable. Besides,

i don't even remember another theme or motif right now...

(I watched the film only once and never listened to the album release)

What a shame for Star Trek music with such unique and great soundtrack legacy like TMP or The Wrath of Khan. The new Star Trek deserved a great theme but got owned hard.

Avatar at least presents us with about 30 percent great and original music and a new variation on the danger motif. With all that it already got much better than the dissapointing Star Trek score!

[Diego 21]

Yes, the world needs more of the danger motif, we didn't get enough of it in Star Trek 2 (is this the origin of the motif?), Willow, Land Before Time, Troy, Mask of Zorro, etc...

[Richard Penna 3,754]

Yeah, I actually don't really care for the Horner danger motif, which is part of why it's so disappointing that he uses it over and over and over again. I can forgive reuse of a little material if it's just too dang good to be annoyed with, but the danger motif really only merited use in one film, IMO. I'd rather listen to Nero's theme. (And to those who'd claim Nero's theme is too obvious and simple...the danger motif isn't?)

Horner's is a motif, from which I expect less.

I don't particularly like what Giacchino does with the main theme at the end of the 'B' statement but in terms of being memorable, that theme wins hands down for me.

[Ollie 1,064]

Yes, the world needs more of the danger motif, we didn't get enough of it in Star Trek 2 (is this the origin of the motif?), Willow, Land Before Time, Troy, Mask of Zorro, etc...

Cue Christopher Walken....

"I need more danger motif."

[DaHaK 0]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who caught on to the danger motif growing up. I remember hearing it in Mask of Zorro and thinking of Willow. I used to be put off by it, but now...I'll hear it in random Horner movies like Jack The Bear or Enemy At The Gates and just bust out laughing.

To me, Horner seems to be the William Shatner of the composer world. Nice at first, then you catch on and are annoyed at his antics, and then you fall in love with him because of them. At which point you just roll your eyes and say: Horner can do no wrong. Which is awesome (and yet...annoying)!

I voted Star Trek BTW.

[Datameister 2,073]

That's a good way of putting it. Yeah, when I hear a new batch of Hornerisms, I pretty much just chuckle, roll my eyes, and try to enjoy it.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Well at least I know what Giacchino looks like now

He's a gay little stud.

[Diego 21]

The funny thing about Horner with me is that I get the self-plagiarism in reverse. Since Willow was my first Horner score I listened to Star Trek II and went "Hey, that's from Willow".

[Quintus 5,399]

It's okay, I do it with Goldsmith. Star Trek: The Motion Picture rips off Poltergeist, in my world.

[Ollie 1,064]

It's okay, I do it with Goldsmith. Star Trek: The Motion Picture rips off Poltergeist, in my world.

That's somewhat impossible since Poltergeist came after TMP.

[Quintus 5,399]

Exactly! Re-read the above two posts

[Ollie 1,064]

Oops, missed Diego's post.

[Wojo 2,453]

I don't worry about such things as true chronological order. I leave that to the people who actually lived through the events in the first place, and are remembering them. I think it's far more interesting to recall chronological order of discovery.

[Richard Penna 3,754]

Well at least I know what Giacchino looks like now

He's a gay little stud.

Such eloquence you have Joey.

[Ollie 1,064]

I don't worry about such things as true chronological order. I leave that to the people who actually lived through the events in the first place, and are remembering them. I think it's far more interesting to recall chronological order of discovery.

Well I can say that since I discovered Horner first, it has ruined Prokofiev for me.

[crocodile 8,048]

There are some really good cues in Star Trek, but the rest is rather bland, especially the action music. Which is kind of strange, becuase normally I enjoy Giacchino's music quite a bit. Avatar, on the other hand, is great listen from start to finish.

Karol

[Datameister 2,073]

The funny thing about Horner with me is that I get the self-plagiarism in reverse. Since Willow was my first Horner score I listened to Star Trek II and went "Hey, that's from Willow".

I'll never forgive Braveheart for copying that wonderfully evocative passage from Bicentennial Man.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I can play the backwards game too. I remember the score to Small Soldiers and I thought Hmmmm, that sounds like Matinee, then I listened to Matinee, and I thought hmmm that sounds like Gremlins, then I listed to Gremlins and I thought Hmmm, that sounds like the Twilight Zone, then I listened to the Twilight Zone and thought Hmmm, that sounds like Poltergeist, then I listened to Poltergeist and I though Hmmm that sounds like Star Trek the Motion Picture, then I listened to Star Trek the Motion Picture and I thought Hmmm that sounds like Alien.

Then I listened to the Omen and Boys from Brazil and thought Hmmm these do seem unique. Still Something Wicked this Way Comes sounds familiar in some ways to Boys from Brazil, obviously Horner stoled from it.

[publicist 4,643]

I can play the backwards game too. I remember the score to Small Soldiers and I thought Hmmmm, that sounds like Matinee, then I listened to Matinee, and I thought hmmm that sounds like Gremlins, then I listed to Gremlins and I thought Hmmm, that sounds like the Twilight Zone, then I listened to the Twilight Zone and thought Hmmm, that sounds like Poltergeist, then I listened to Poltergeist and I though Hmmm that sounds like Star Trek the Motion Picture, then I listened to Star Trek the Motion Picture and I thought Hmmm that sounds like Alien.

Then I listened to the Omen and Boys from Brazil and thought Hmmm these do seem unique. Still Something Wicked this Way Comes sounds familiar in some ways to Boys from Brazil, obviously Horner stoled from it.

It is firmly established by now that Horner goes far beyond those superficial sound-alikes. At least i cannot remember SMALL SOLDIERS borrowing minute-long passages from MATINEE, but hey, it's your hearing.

[Diego 21]

Yeah, I haven't found anything like the danger motif thing with Goldsmith, sure you can hear similarities, some tracks from Secret of NIMH sound like Poltergeist, but not the exact same thing. You could put a clip of the danger motif and there's no way in hell I could guess what score it's from.

[Quintus 5,399]

I don't think that anyone's really disputing that Horner is the king of self-borrowing - taken to the extreme. Within five minutes of watching Avatar I heard the danger motif and I knew I was firmly in Horner territory.

[Wojo 2,453]

Let's be honest. Who can you borrow from?

Can you borrow from classical music? Sometimes. If it's too obvious or blatant, their heirs will sue.

Can you borrow from other composers? They or their studios will probably sue.

Who's that leave? I suppose you could borrow from other genres of music. Oh snap, they'll probably sue.

That leaves yourself as the only safe source to borrow from.

[Quintus 5,399]

People (fans) just don't like to have their faces rubbed in it. With Horner it reminds me of a dog owner forcing his dog's snout into the shit on the kitchen floor.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

I think Joey's mistaking a specific style for outright self-plagiarism.

[Wojo 2,453]

Quint, I really wish you could be more descriptive. I just don't think I get what you're trying to say.

[Quintus 5,399]

Heh heh, you wouldn't want me any other way :spiny:

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I think Joey's mistaking a specific style for outright self-plagiarism.

If you want to think that and it makes you're lies to yourself more palatable then be my guest.

Goldsmith was self plagerising before Horner got out of the marching band.

[King Mark 3,631]

goldsmith has some boring scores but I never heard self plagiarism

[Wojo 2,453]

And how many Goldsmith scores have you listened to?

[publicist 4,643]

And how many Goldsmith scores have you listened to?

Only fractions, he was busy playing LEGO games, feverishly hunting for 3 second-long INDY jingles.

[King Mark 3,631]

I listened most of Goldsmith's scores. I have 150 of his albums in itunes. I still consider him second best to Williams...but I don't like much of his 90's onwards output.

I listen to everything on my ipod except Zimmer and co.

And I don't play Lego games

[publicist 4,643]

I listened most of Goldsmith's scores. I have 150 of his albums in itunes. I still consider him second best to Williams...but I don't like much of his 90's onwards output.

I listen to everything on my ipod except Zimmer and co.

And I don't play Lego games

Dear god, i was jesting...

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Hans Zimmer would have been better for Deathly Hallows than either of those two hacks Williams and Splat anyway.

[Quintus 5,399]

And how many Goldsmith scores have you listened to?

Only fractions, he was busy playing LEGO games, feverishly hunting for 3 second-long INDY jingles.

:cool:

[mahler3 478]

23 votes. It is settled then, the entire world prefers the score to Avatar.

:cool:

Well, the BAFTA's were just announced so if we're lucky we may get a Vol2 CD from Atlantic, featuring the brilliant brass / Stravinsky-esque music from the stampede scene!

BAFTA MUSIC NOMINATIONS:

AVATAR James Horner

CRAZY HEART T-Bone Burnett, Stephen Bruton

FANTASTIC MR FOX Alexandre Desplat

SEX & DRUGS & ROCK & ROLL Chaz Jankel

UP Michael Giacchino

This year's celebration of the very best in film will take place on

Sunday 21 February at the Royal Opera House, Covent Garden, London.

For more information please go to: http://www.bafta.org/awards

- Tim

[gkgyver 1,646]

Star Trek.

It has just a few snippets of legendary material, but those are better than the conglomerate Horner wrote.

Maybe Horner felt nostalgic or something.

[Quintus 5,399]

Long time no see

[gkgyver 1,646]

Tell it to the hand, or mod, as you call it here.

[King Mark 3,631]

that guy T-Bone is the new Gustavo Santaollala

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Except that he's been in the music business for decades. He's not a composer.

[Trent B 337]

I listened most of Goldsmith's scores. I have 150 of his albums in itunes. I still consider him second best to Williams...but I don't like much of his 90's onwards output.

So you don't like his scores for Air Force One, Star Trek: First Contact, Star Trek: Insurrection and Star Trek: Nemesis? Those I consider to be excellent Goldsmith, especially in boot form.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I listened most of Goldsmith's scores. I have 150 of his albums in itunes. I still consider him second best to Williams...but I don't like much of his 90's onwards output.

So you don't like his scores for Air Force One, Star Trek: First Contact, Star Trek: Insurrection and Star Trek: Nemesis? Those I consider to be excellent Goldsmith, especially in boot form.

He didn't say or imply that, did you infer that?