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ROTJ missing scene with Williams music

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You can kind of see why it was cut

at least the music made it to the c.d.

Well, the scene kind of follows the "join me and rule the galaxy as father and son" storyline which was dropped without explanation later in the film when it becomes "I'll take you to the Emperor and he'll probably make you kill me and take my place, oh well, my job here is finished son, be nice to Palpy". So it makes sense it was cut. Also, if it later shows him placing the saber into R2's dome, it's probably better to have the saber reveal at the sail barge.

Still it's a cool introduction to Luke, as it makes him look mysterious and badass and it immediately makes you think of Empire and the coflict between Luke and Vader, which in Jedi is not dealt with at all until after the whole Jabba thing.

The scene looks thrown together, it would be surprising if they built the meditation chamber just for that little bit, so that may very well be leftover footage from Empire.

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Scene - fairly cool.

Fanboys in the background - ugh.

My sentiments exactly. To the fanboys in the audience, just watch the deleted scene you've waited years to see. Cheering through it only ruins the experience.

Its a short clip at a geek superconvention, not even a real theater. I would have cheered my heart out myself. In this case I think it ADDS to the experience. ;)

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Pass.

I will never watch nor purchase anything Star Wars related until the versions that were released in 1977, 1980 and 1983 are made available.

I'm not sure if I should bother either. I really like Blu-Ray but there are only so many times I can buy these movies before realizing that I don't care anymore.

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Wow, Lucas really doesn't get that the fans overwhelming want the original movies.

This thread proves that some would buy the 2004 versions of the films, but why buy those when ever Lucas' supposed "vision" of the film is filled with technical errors and shoddy work. The originals still have a huge nostalgia factor for most, and I know that when I rented the original versions over the winter, I remembered why I used to like Star Wars so much growing up. These new dvds were awful. Considering how long it took to come out, you could at least spend half a day making sure the lightsabers look right and are the right color. But no Lucas decided it was more important to film clunky scenes to replace scenes that didn't need replacing (well maybe the Emperor one did, but considering its probably the best film other than Raiders that he's been apart of, you'd think he'd try a little harder for it to be well done).

I know that's a bit of a rant, but god-knows the man deserves it. I'll wait for the eventual real versions to be released. Anything less is just a cheap fan edit done with better equipment. ;)

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I think they they eventually release de OT in original form, but the bonus features will be different..and maybe they add new deleted scenes (damn! will have to wait more years..and lose some bonus features...)

But really people, demonizing a person who has donated 1.5 billion dollars to charity is just plain wrong.

I idolized him in the past, my recent view was of mild bitching due to disrespect of williams music, unnecessary deliberate creative decissions and unwillingness to restore the OT, but really now, the man deserves by the least a little respect.

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George Lucas will always have my own respect. What he gave to the history of movies supersedes the eventual "bashing".

It's just plain sad he seems to be unfair to the people who gave him success. It seems he doesn't care a bit about what people wants. I know Star Wars is his own creation and he has all the rights to do whatever he wants with it (as he did in the last 20 years), but it would be a lot more classier for him to acknowledge a bit more his own fans. In this case, he could really just include the original unaltered trilogy in the package and everyone would be happy. But if you read his reasoning in that interview it's clear that it's something he really doesn't give a damn about.

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George Lucas will always have my own respect. What he gave to the history of movies supersedes the eventual "bashing".

It's just plain sad he seems to be unfair to the people who gave him success. It seems he doesn't care a bit about what people wants. I know Star Wars is his own creation and he has all the rights to do whatever he wants with it (as he did in the last 20 years), but it would be a lot more classier for him to acknowledge a bit more his own fans. In this case, he could really just include the original unaltered trilogy in the package and everyone would be happy. But if you read his reasoning in that interview it's clear that it's something he really doesn't give a damn about.

Agree, can't stand Lucas bashing. I actually like the changes he made, and a great many people I know feel the same. In the end its the minority of arguments that tend to shout the loudest...

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When you look at the whole of Lucas' decisions regarding Star Wars, it's perfectly obvious that he cares more about money than preserving his franchise properly. Thus all the bashing.

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When you look at the whole of Lucas' decisions regarding Star Wars, it's perfectly obvious that he cares more about money than preserving his franchise properly. Thus all the bashing.

You know where that money goes, right? It's not so George can sleep on piles of money like Scrooge McDuck. It goes into ILM, into LucasArts, into developing new technologies and into education and new innovations. You know, like Pixar.

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George Lucas will always have my own respect. What he gave to the history of movies supersedes the eventual "bashing".

It's just plain sad he seems to be unfair to the people who gave him success. It seems he doesn't care a bit about what people wants. I know Star Wars is his own creation and he has all the rights to do whatever he wants with it (as he did in the last 20 years), but it would be a lot more classier for him to acknowledge a bit more his own fans. In this case, he could really just include the original unaltered trilogy in the package and everyone would be happy. But if you read his reasoning in that interview it's clear that it's something he really doesn't give a damn about.

Agree, can't stand Lucas bashing. I actually like the changes he made, and a great many people I know feel the same. In the end its the minority of arguments that tend to shout the loudest...

Aside from visual improvements in the Battle of Yavin, most of the updates are crap. My most hated are the changes made to the celebration finale in ROTJ. I want it 100% restored to how it was in 1983.

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I love the celebration in ROTJ, vast improvement. I love all the changes Lucas made, even my brothers who were kids when the originals were released love the changes, cause I get a lot of 'you weren't there for the originals', which okay I wasn't, but my brothers were and like me, they like the changes and the prequels. Was only once I started going online I released some didn't agree, most I've met in the real world either don't care either way or loved the Special editions, prequels etc. But in the end, I think these arguments are short lived anyway, I watch my nephews, who also love Star Wars, and they love all the films. Originals and Prequels, those terms mean nothing to them. It's Star Wars, and its for kids, and kids still love it. That's important.

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You know where that money goes, right? It's not so George can sleep on piles of money like Scrooge McDuck. It goes into ILM, into LucasArts, into developing new technologies and into education and new innovations. You know, like Pixar.

I really don't care where it goes. The point is just that Star Wars recently has been about generating money rather than good storytelling.

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You know where that money goes, right? It's not so George can sleep on piles of money like Scrooge McDuck. It goes into ILM, into LucasArts, into developing new technologies and into education and new innovations. You know, like Pixar.

I really don't care where it goes. The point is just that Star Wars recently has been about generating money rather than good storytelling.

I dont want to point it again, but seeing where half of that money has gone, i cant say that has been a bad thing... ;)

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You know where that money goes, right? It's not so George can sleep on piles of money like Scrooge McDuck. It goes into ILM, into LucasArts, into developing new technologies and into education and new innovations. You know, like Pixar.

I really don't care where it goes. The point is just that Star Wars recently has been about generating money rather than good storytelling.

Have you seen The Clone Wars TV show? That has some excellent storytelling. It's easy to be negative about SW after the prequels, but that show has some genuinely good to great stuff in it.

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I love the celebration in ROTJ, vast improvement.

It's an abomination. I get no celebratory feeling from the new version, the editing has been scattered and fragmented, and Sebastian Shaw's kindly smile replaced by Hayden's snaky smirk just rubs salt in the wound.

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I love the celebration in ROTJ, vast improvement.

It's an abomination. I get no celebratory feeling from the new version, the editing has been scattered and fragmented, and Sebastian Shaw's kindly smile replaced by Hayden's snaky smirk just rubs salt in the wound.

The further tinkerings didn't help to save what was already a very cheesy and childish finale. Instead of opting for a moving and deep farewell like the one everyone was kind of expecting, everything was ruined by a happy-happy dance between stuffed animals, aliens and humans. Ouch.

ROTJ should have ended with Luke burning his father's remains and the camera panning up to the sky.

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To each their own, I guess lol I personally love every Star Wars film, and I sincerely hope Lucas updates them again, I don't care if he wants to add new scenes. CGI etc, I'm all for it. In the end, Star Wars is his creation, its up to him to do what he wants with them, as I would if I were him. And the argument about how he is just doing it for the money, try not to look at it so black and white. Of course he has to do it for money, he's not an idiot, but as someone already rightly said, he puts it back into ILM, even if he didn't, who cares? People are buying his stuff so why shouldn't he profit? He's not running a charity. Like I said, Star Wars is for kids, and kids love it, whether its the Clone Wars TV show, games, movies, doesn't matter. You don't have to watch it if you don't want to, but instead have the maturity and understand the target audience, which isn't yourself. So you either appreciate that and enjoy it for what it is, fun adventures and fables for children, or you move on.

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Did nobody ask him about the Indy trilogy? Which Spielberg supposedly delayed release of because he wasn't satisfied with the transfers? Maybe it had something to do with that leaked digital alteration to ROTLA desert chase from the HD broadcasts.

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I suggest you to read this really good interview with former Star Wars producer Gary Kurtz.

Wow. Very interesting article. I had largely dismissed the "Luca$$$ $old out for toy revenue" mantra as not much more than embittered conjecture.

Here we actually get some credible input on that.

“We had an outline and George changed everything in it," Kurtz said. “Instead of bittersweet and poignant he wanted a euphoric ending with everybody happy. The original idea was that they would recover [the kidnapped] Han Solo in the early part of the story and that he would then die in the middle part of the film in a raid on an Imperial base. George then decided he didn’t want any of the principals killed. By that time there were really big toy sales and that was a reason.”

So, Lucas didn't kill off Han Solo in part because he thought it would hurt toy sales...

The irony is that making a better movie would have only helped merchandising.

Can't say how much I would have taken to Kurtz's treatment for the ending, but it does tweak the imagination.

It seems like there could have been a workable middle ground between leaving the Rebellion in tatters and having a "teddy bear luau".

Oh well.

So he seemed to have lost his way a bit and the series didn't reach it's full potential. Big deal.

It's unfortunate but not something I can muster any real degree of anger or frustration about.

He's a big source of some of my favorite childhood fun and memories.

Return of the Jedi was always my favorite growing up and I still have a big soft spot for it (the prequels also).

The Clone Wars series is even pretty cool.

But what do I know. I've got toy Yoda, R2-D2, Slave I, Millennium Falcon, and Clone Wars Obi-Wan and Anakin figures presently displayed at my desk. :)

One of the tiniest, completely unnecessary, yet most annoying changes was the replacement of "Bring my shuttle!" in TESB. I mean, wtf?

I guess he just wasn't happy with the line.

As a web designer who frequently obsesses over minute details on my projects that hardly anyone else would notice, I can get that.

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How people can say that adding slapstick comedy involving cartoon dinosaurs (Mos Eisley), character changing additions (Greedo shooting), redundant poorly made scenes (Jabba), pace destructing scenes (the shuttle in ESB), singing and dancing cartoon bugs (Jabba's palace), and non-sensical celebrations including Jar-Jar are good changes is beyond me... I expect this kind of thing at theforce.net, but here, oh well.

BTW... those interested in the classic versions and not Lucas' shit visit this site, it has a lot of information I didn't know about:

http://www.savestarwars.com/

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I see absolutely no insult in anything I said... but I know what this place has become. Like I said on the very first post, I don't post here anymore, just wanted to share some new footage from one of my favorite films before it was removed. Having done that, I think I'll leave again, you just can't discuss anything in this place anymore.

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You just can't discuss anything in this place anymore.

What do you call this thread? Looks like a pretty good discussion to me, lol. Unless, of course, you define "discussion" as commentary that agrees wholly with your original statement. Where would be the fun in that?

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"Luke... Luke... Join me on the dark side of the Force. It is the only way."

Not exactly thrilling dialogue, but it's interesting that Luke looks so much like the Emperor in his reveal shot. It makes their final confrontation resonate more.

I thought it was Palpatine until he brought out the lightsaber.

Very cool scene, nice to finally see it. I don't know why it was deleted honestly. The dialogue may not have been anything special but I think it showcases some interesting character beats.

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The scene came off as slightly fake, but I still believe in it since there are references and Williams did compose music for it. I've read "reports" from other geeks that the Vader helmet seen here is actually the Revenge of the Sith version and that Mark Hamill never filmed this scene. When you think about it, the entire scene could have been re-constructed with modern technology and existing footage/dialog. Either way, it is frickin' cool.

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The scene came off as slightly fake, but I still believe in it since there are references and Williams did compose music for it. I've read "reports" from other geeks that the Vader helmet seen here is actually the Revenge of the Sith version and that Mark Hamill never filmed this scene. When you think about it, the entire scene could have been re-constructed with modern technology and existing footage/dialog. Either way, it is frickin' cool.

Wouldn't that just open a can full of worms? I can't wait for the drama next fall.

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The reason why the 2004 DVD editions looked bad as far the transfers go was because they were rushed. Lucas really did want to wait to hold off releasing them on DVD until a few years after Revenge Of The Sith was released in theaters. However, he caved under pressure from the fans and probably people from Lucasfilm. That's why the color timing for the films look like crap in the 2004 DVD sets.

However, with them taking as long as they are with the Blu-Ray set, I'm pretty sure they'll get it right this time, color timing and all.

As I said for the most part I like the changes to the Special Editions of the Original Trilogy, aside from a couple of things here and there. I mean ya I too grew up watching the theatrical versions on VHS many times over, but that's just nostalgia crap. I mean sure Lucas should release the theatrical versions in a proper restored version but if he said it would cost to much to do it, then hey can't do anything about that. Bitching won't help at all.

In all honesty though I could careless about seeing the original theatrical versions again (except for the Han / Greedo scene) as I said for the most part I prefer the Special Editions.

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The reason why the 2004 DVD editions looked bad as far the transfers go was because they were rushed. Lucas really did want to wait to hold off releasing them on DVD until a few years after Revenge Of The Sith was released in theaters. However, he caved under pressure from the fans and probably people from Lucasfilm. That's why the color timing for the films look like crap in the 2004 DVD sets.

However, with them taking as long as they are with the Blu-Ray set, I'm pretty sure they'll get it right this time, color timing and all.

As I said for the most part I like the changes to the Special Editions of the Original Trilogy, aside from a couple of things here and there. I mean ya I too grew up watching the theatrical versions on VHS many times over, but that's just nostalgia crap. I mean sure Lucas should release the theatrical versions in a proper restored version but if he said it would cost to much to do it, then hey can't do anything about that. Bitching won't help at all.

In all honesty though I could careless about seeing the original theatrical versions again (except for the Han / Greedo scene) as I said for the most part I prefer the Special Editions.

I don't think the problems are due to a rushed production. More here.

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I think the darkness and color shifts were intentional, sadly. So they won't be corrected. Lucas probably got the idea to darken/tint the blockade runner corridors, for instance, while filming or conceiving Episode III. He figured that in the prequel era you'd get this pristine white decontaminated, brightly-illuminated Kubrick/Roddenberry-esque interior. It's basically a big flying limo for the royal family. But after it had been through battles and become a Rebel warship in the dark times, that same kind of interior should not be reflected outside of the architecture, of course. It's ugly, but that ugliness makes sense. It's maddening because I'd like them to just look the way they were before. But it's obvious he was going astray with digital technology shifting the colors around. He wanted them to look the way they do. They just fudged up a bunch of things.

By the way, these needed to be posted:

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Ya I need to get my butt in gear and start getting my DVD collection converted to Blu-Ray. I too want those on Blu (the Trek movies). All though I'm a bit disappointed that those are the theatrical versions...at least for Trek I prefer the directors cuts for The Wrath Of Khan and The Undiscovered Country.

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To each their own, I guess lol I personally love every Star Wars film, and I sincerely hope Lucas updates them again, I don't care if he wants to add new scenes. CGI etc, I'm all for it. In the end, Star Wars is his creation, its up to him to do what he wants with them, as I would if I were him. And the argument about how he is just doing it for the money, try not to look at it so black and white. Of course he has to do it for money, he's not an idiot, but as someone already rightly said, he puts it back into ILM, even if he didn't, who cares? People are buying his stuff so why shouldn't he profit? He's not running a charity. Like I said, Star Wars is for kids, and kids love it, whether its the Clone Wars TV show, games, movies, doesn't matter. You don't have to watch it if you don't want to, but instead have the maturity and understand the target audience, which isn't yourself. So you either appreciate that and enjoy it for what it is, fun adventures and fables for children, or you move on.

Personally, I don't care what he does to the films, but why not give people the option on which version they want? You say a lot of people you know don't mind the new versions, but I have talked to few people who do (including my mother who saw the original in theaters 13 times). I understand his arguments about artistic vision (quality aside) but he acts as if the original versions are pieces of crap that need to be fixed. With proper restoration and some minor tweaks, the original films are still great films and could entertain people of all ages. Instead, he adds in CGI and other elements which add nothing to the product and denies people the opportunity to see the film they want to see. He became a billionaire largely do to people seeing those films and continually buying them over the years. Now he seemingly disrespects people by saying that those films that made him a billionaire are inferior and have no real need to be release and can't be bothered to dedicate a little of his money to give the fans what they want. Its not as if he wouldn't make any money back after the BluRays of the originals are released.

As for the whole giving money to charity thing, that has no barring on the conversation as far as I'm concerned. Its a good thing that he's giving some of his money away, but would giving away half of a billion dollars really affect his day to day life?

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Yeah, he can make changes all he wants - it's his creative product and it's his prerogative to do whatever he wants to it. But he should make the original versions available, too. If they were good enough to propel him to wealth and worldwide fame, they're good enough to continue being seen by those who want to.

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I do find it a bit frustrating that Lucas is the only director not to treat the theatrical versions of his original movies with care. I mean hell Spielberg did it with E.T. and a few others of his. So why Lucas never does it with Star Wars is beyond me...

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