Which iconic theme do you prefer?

[Datameister 2,043]

You can say they know what they're doing till you're blue in the face, but the fact is, some of those recordings really suck!

[Quintus 5,399]

I've only heard the POTC one, so I'll have to take your word for it with regards to that particular compilation.

I've got other, classical recordings though which tell me that the RPO are a world class orchestra.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

they are the ones making the tour 'star wars in concert'

that by the least is played almost flawlessly.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

I think with some proper orchestration the main theme of Pirates would be better. The barebones down to the melody of He's A Pirate simply has more potential and it's more catchy.

I'm not sure I agree with that. Zimmer's power anthem approach - of which POTC is part - is not based on classical symphonic composition, but more on a prog rock idiom that utilizes orchestra (both sampled and acoustic) as colour. So orchestrating it further would do it more harm than good, as if you were orchestrating a more traditional pop song. LSO tried that with their "LSO Plays Classic Rock" albums in the 80's, and while a few of them worked reasonably well, most of them were very cheesy. Basically because the compositions were not receptive to that type of arrangement.

What often DOES work, though, is arrangements more geared towards rock, pop and electronica. These are based on the ideology and style of the compositions' own terms.

Blimey, I think I'm starting to agree with you.

I say, ditch the orchestra entirely - they don't deserve to be subjected to that, nor does the innate structure of the music denote that kind of interpretation. And if the arranger still wants an orchestral sound, they can get an approximation through samples, presets and certain synth effects.

[King Mark 3,631]

There's nothing to compare between these two tracks. Superman ANNHILATES He's a Pirate on every level. Those who have voted otherwise are utterly clueless.

Exactly.

nothing more to add in this thread

[Quintus 5,399]

they are the ones making the tour 'star wars in concert'

that by the least is played almost flawlessly.

Rule of thumb: If it's an orchestra from London, it's good

Even the London Theatre Orchestra can nail a tune.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

they are the ones making the tour 'star wars in concert'

that by the least is played almost flawlessly.

Rule of thumb: If it's an orchestra from London, it's good

If it's from Prague, it's bad. Really.

[King Mark 3,631]

This thread is great way to lower your credibility in general if your writing convoluted explanations why He's a Pirate is a better theme (Blumenkhol..)

He's a Pirate is the epitome of why film music is now ruined

[Quintus 5,399]

they are the ones making the tour 'star wars in concert'

that by the least is played almost flawlessly.

Rule of thumb: If it's an orchestra from London, it's good

If it's from Prague, it's bad. Really.

Poor old Pragisions.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

He's a Pirate is the epitome of why film music is now ruined

Oh come on, that's bollocks. It's just an annoyingly popular power anthem from the early 00s. It'll have about as much longevity as Donovan.

[Quintus 5,399]

That's quite possibly true.

In twenty years time folk will whistle the PotC theme; not realising that they're actually and unwittingly reproducing (with their layman lips!) a piece of action music from Gladiator!

Mmmmwwwwaaaahahahahahaaaaa

[Koray Savas 2,251]

You mean Drop Zone

[King Mark 3,631]

In twenty years time folk will whistle the PotC theme; not realising that they're actually and unwittingly reproducing (with their layman lips!) a piece of action music from Gladiator!

I don't think they have any real memorability. For some reason I can't even hum He's a Pirate (or any other MV theme) in my head

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

he mean that people will whistle the tune that is featured in the newer RCP film. It will always be.

[Faleel 5,349]

What he means is that anyone could come up with the music, that RCP creates

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

When the B section of the march begins in Williams' intended opening title...aww yeah. It's like it couldn't get any better, then it does. Genius.

[Ollie 1,059]

5, 10, 20, 30 years from now I doubt any Pirate film will be using Zimmer's themes from POTC.

[Matt C 454]

The RPO performance of "He's a Pirate" is excellent, but it still can't disguise the fact that as written, it just doesn't compare. It's catchy and fits the tone of the Pirates trilogy, but I wouldn't call it iconic.

The Superman theme (either the march or the whole theme with prelude) blows it out of the water.

[indy4 155]

5, 10, 20, 30 years from now I doubt any Pirate film will be using Zimmer's themes from POTC.

Well, I think that's a little unfair. Superhero films don't use Williams' Superman Theme - only Superman films do. Pirates films probably won't use "He's a Pirate," but all the remaining Pirates of the Caribbean films will probably use it.

Still, I understand your point and agree that JW's Superman theme will have stronger lasting power than Zimmer's PotC themes.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

I think a great measure of iconic is how laughable of a joke a theme becomes after a few decades. For example, the raiders theme, jaws theme, the THX sound, Imperial March, Star Trek theme have all been used ad infinitum and ad naseaum to the point that they are parody/comic staples to represent their respective Concepts.

To this day only Zimmer's Dark Knight music has been used to comic effect....in South Park.

[Datameister 2,043]

I never quite thought of it that way, but that's a good approach.

I rather doubt there will be many specific Zimmer themes that remain ingrained in the public consciousness in a few decades. However, I do think that if there's any self-awareness in film music pop culture, the Zimmer power anthem sound will indeed be similarly parodied - perhaps not to represent any specific character or idea, but at least to evoke a certain time period in real-world cinematic history. As popular as these sounds have been, they simply cannot remain constantly popular forever. Every style experiences peaks and troughs in popularity, regardless of whatever objective merit it might have. This style will continue to fall out of use and become more and more dated. But due to how ubiquitous it was for a while, it'll be remembered.

[Ricard 2,245]

Probably every single theme JW has written is much more preferable than He's a Pirate, an absolutely awful piece of music without any artistic integrity what so ever

Something I experienced lately when I made a music quiz with, among other things, two Williams themes - SUPERMAN and STAR WARS. People confused them, as well as saying stuff like INDIANA JONES, 2001 and whatnot.

No doubt, but they were written 30 years ago. I don't think you had that confusion back in the 70s/80s.

Unfortunately yes. But that's a different matter.

[Thor 7,504]

Well, aren't we a bunch of Nostradamuses?

If I'm going to throw myself into the predicting hooplah (something I rarely do, as I prefer to focus on the here and now), I'd say the POTC theme will live a long life, just as the power anthem - while it waned in popularity in the last 5-6 years - will become a historical landmark for film music in the future. Whether it lives on, dies out or is developped further.

Zimmer himself has moved on and hardly ever does that style anymore. Now he's becoming influential with another sound; the minimalistic ostinato thing with deep chords and percussion (DARK KNIGHT, INCEPTION) or more textural soundscapes.

[Richard Penna 3,690]

Comparing one of JW's all time greatest themes, with something Zimmer came up with in a rush at 4am in his studio, with Bruckheimer demanding a power anthem. This is an absolutely fair contest...

In this case, I vote Superman.

Had this been against the theme heard in Jack Sparrow from DMC, there'd actually be some contest for me. I think that one's a damn good theme.

Who ever the two people that voted for the Pirates theme needs to pull their heads out of their asses.

As someone who like me, is known for bucking certain trends (i.e. enjoying Ottman's Superman as much as/more than Williams'), I'm surprised you're so forward in crapping on anyone who might prefer He's a Pirate.

There might be a difference in overall compositional quality, but some thematic structures work better for some people.

Hah, 5 votes now

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

The only bit of the pirates theme that has ever infectiously stuck with me is the solemn choir + trumpet bit in the middle of "Medallion Calls"

Am I the only one? That bit was actually magical sounding...

Oh and I voted for pirates just to raise King Marks blood pressure.

My actual vote goes to Superman.

[Wojo 2,453]

This one is easy, mostly because it's a 13 to 2 runaway.

I would vote for Bathroom Sounds of Hans Zimmer After an All-Night Binge of Warsteiner and Bratwurst: The Tiesto Remix over anything by Williams just to skew the results and raise the community's blood pressure.

He's a Pirate.

[Jay 37,364]

Mark and Jason can find out who the others are.....

Actually, we can't!

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Man, these forum technologies have really neutered administrative powers.

Back in my day, we used to be able to see everything from what people's original posts before they edited them, what their edits were, see who voted for what...

Those were the days...

[Datameister 2,043]

Had this been against the theme heard in Jack Sparrow from DMC, there'd actually be some contest for me. I think that one's a damn good theme.

I cannot stand that theme. It fits the "new" Jack Sparrow in DMC perfectly.

The only bit of the pirates theme that has ever infectiously stuck with me is the solemn choir + trumpet bit in the middle of "Medallion Calls"

Am I the only one? That bit was actually magical sounding...

That entire scene is scored very effectively, IMO. Jack's real theme has just the right amount of tongue-in-cheek seriousness for that marvelous scene. The trumpet solo is great, but I think the solemn trombone passage immediately preceding it is even better. Man, it's amazing how much better that film is than the ones that followed...

[Quintus 5,399]

Quite the PotC connoisseur aren't we

[gkgyver 1,645]

The only bit of the pirates theme that has ever infectiously stuck with me is the solemn choir + trumpet bit in the middle of "Medallion Calls"

Am I the only one? That bit was actually magical sounding...

I wouldn't say "magical sounding", but it's indeed my favourite clip, or the one I think about the most.

[Datameister 2,043]

Quite the PotC connoisseur aren't we

The first score was one of my favorites for a while. Then I started listening to other Zimmer (etc.) scores and realized how utterly derivative it was, and I lost a lot of respect for Zimmer's work and that score in particular. But I still really enjoy it if I'm in the right mood and if I don't listen to too much of it at once. It was my first stereotypical Zimmer score, so it sounded fresh to me at the time.

As for the films, the first one was utterly brilliant. For a while, I tried to pretend that the sequels hadn't really happened, but that didn't work too well.

[Quintus 5,399]

I was only winding you up Joe, I like much of Zimmer's music and the PotC movie.

[Datameister 2,043]

No worries, I didn't take offense at it or anything. Just explaining my position.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Now I'm in the mood for the scores. Let the listening begin! ... after I finish SOCOM 4!

[Ollie 1,059]

I was only winding you up Joe, I like much of Zimmer's music and the PotC movie.

And that's the most important thing. You like it and that's all that matters.

And she is adorable Quint.

[Quintus 5,399]

Thank you!

[JB11sos 0]

I think a great measure of iconic is how laughable of a joke a theme becomes after a few decades. For example, the raiders theme, jaws theme, the THX sound, Imperial March, Star Trek theme have all been used ad infinitum and ad naseaum to the point that they are parody/comic staples to represent their respective Concepts.

To this day only Zimmer's Dark Knight music has been used to comic effect....in South Park.

Clearly, you haven't seen this yet. If the arguably most popular satirists in the U.S., along with one of the country's most famous singers, are parodying your theme, I'd say your theme is iconic.

[indy4 155]

That song has nothing to do with the music of PotC, just the films.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

^ What he said.

[Ollie 1,059]

Plus that video has already been posted in this thread.

Although i haven't seen Bolton in a decade so it was a surprise they put him in that video.

[Jay 37,364]

I first posted that video in the Pirates 4 thread, not this thread

[Ollie 1,059]

I saw your post in the other thread but I thought someone else had posted the same video in this thread.

hmmm, maybe it was Facebook.

[Jay 37,364]

It was also posted in this thread, but by JB11SOS

[Ollie 1,059]

Yeah I knew that, but I thought some else besides the 2 of you had posted it somewhere on this board.

[Jay 37,364]

Possibly!

It is pretty funny, though I wish they stayed with the Pirates theme instead of switching to other movies

[Ollie 1,059]

Yeah it is hilarious.

[Quintus 5,399]

Possibly!

It is pretty funny, though I wish they stayed with the Pirates theme instead of switching to other movies

Definitely, plus the thumbnail and title of that youtube clip spoils the surprise. The one i saw had no spoilers and the chorus made me explode.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,531]

Oh, for f##k's sake, do we really need a vote on this? Williams could record his farts in a bathtub, and it would still be better than Zimmer.

[Thor 7,504]

Well, thanks for the valuable input, Richard. A well thought-out argument that certainly puts things in another perspective....