Hans Zimmer's Best Themes?

[Thor 7,519]

Funny you mention that. I've been thinking about the use of music in the recent Nolan films and while I think I understand where they're coming from, maybe Nolan should just hire Vangelis.

That would actually be very interesting, but I think the Greek master has retired from film scoring for good.

[p0llux 399]

For those who mentioned Inception, really?? That's really rubbish.

How is that rubbish? The conclusion of the film, as heard in "Paradox" and "Time," was one of the most moving experiences I've ever had in a film. It's a terrific theme that perfectly encapsulates what the characters (and the audience) is feeling at the conclusion of the film. "Time" is absolutely beautiful, and it immediately comes to mind whenever I think of 'going home.'

"Time" from Inception is a pretty effective track for the scene in the movie, but musically speaking, there isn't much going on.

For those who mentioned Inception, really?? That's really rubbish.

How is that rubbish? The conclusion of the film, as heard in "Paradox" and "Time," was one of the most moving experiences I've ever had in a film. It's a terrific theme that perfectly encapsulates what the characters (and the audience) is feeling at the conclusion of the film. "Time" is absolutely beautiful, and it immediately comes to mind whenever I think of 'going home.'

It's a beautiful theme and score, and I was fortunate to hear Zimmer perform it live in Ghent last year!

Performing "Time" live must have been a painfully dull experience for the musicians. I hope he spiced it up in some way for the live performance.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

For all the criticism he receives, few composers are as eclectically unique as Hans Zimmer. You can always GUESS what the next Zimmer score is going to sound like, but you're never 100% right

mmm WHAT?

For action films... you can guess very well how the action music is going to sound. yes, from time to time he get a comedy-drama assigment and he writes something different (and usually better)

You also cant guess 100% right what horner next scre os going to sound. if you could do that with any composer... it would mean he would be writing note by note the same music over and over again...

Now Williams is an ecclectic composer that can still amaze you with new scores and genres he tackles on.

Yes his action music has a familiar flair, but you just cant predict it.

That said some of the music from the lion king is beautiful. The small moments shine. Shame that when a full orchestra is needed Zimmer resorted to synth. Some tracks are true offenders like 'Hyenas' or the last battle.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Although the line between what's Hans Zimmer real original compositions and which one's from his associates is so blurred, it's hard to say that it's totally 100% HZ.

No. One, I'm sick of people referring to talented musicians as associates or clones or minions or what have you. Either name them, or say collaborators. Two, it's painfully easy to learn who composes what on every Zimmer score, he credits people properly.

Most of The Rock's main themes were written by Nick Glennie-Smith.

Nearly every Zimmer score has something of value to it. I'm not a huge fan of his early 80s work, but once he hit his stride with Rain Man, the man has done a tremendous amount of great scoring.

[crocodile 8,018]

Inception and The Dark Knight are actually not bad scores, especially the first one.

Karol

[Brónach 1,302]

Inceptions sounds awesome in the film. It might just be that I like the mood of it. One of my favourite bits is the beginning of the theme on electric guitar when Sato says they're dreaming.

Zimmer does get nuances like that, like writing down "isn't that cool?" on the music. He also comes up with interesting melodies from time to time. However, a lot of his work sounds a bit cold to me, like it doesn't reach its full potential.

Time is entertaining to listen to but must indeed be boring to play. The most moody parts of that score transmit a lot. And the Mombasa chase cue is fun.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Two, it's painfully easy to learn who composes what on every Zimmer score, he credits people properly.

It should be able to do that by ear, without need to look at any credit.

That is the point, i think.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

The whole point is to create a uniformed style. In scores like Kung Fu Panda, I can clearly hear the Zimmer influence and the Powell influence. They are both credited as main composers. In other scores, he's always the primary composer. The others that work on it are orchestrators, synth programmers, additional composers etc. They aren't contributing significant amounts of music. They help out and make their contribution blend in with what he's done, and he's always there to make sure it all fits to his vision. In other cases, such as Modern Warfare 2 or Skylander, he'll write the main theme and hand off scoring duties to someone else, typically Lorne Balfe. There, you can clearly here the differences.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

i still do not see the good in it.

Giacchino has his own 'edgewater park music' (or had, its quite some time i havent seen this mentioned) that does the same (but in a whole different level of musical quality, and definately not in the same prolific-watering down level), and i dont like it much.

Its great since most games-based-on-giacchino's-scores get a somewhat 100% giacchino score... but it feels bad knowing he didnt composed it. Or then you learn that this cue or that from a film is from another composer etc, etc.

[Jilal 569]

Does anyone else feel that Zimmer blatantly ripped off the opening of Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D Minor for the Kraken in POTC: Dead Man's Chest? Same notes, slightly different rhythm. I don't see how he could honestly say that he wrote that without knowing...

What about Howard Shore/LOTR?

[Koray Savas 2,251]

He had additional music composed there too.

98% of film music fans look at composition so black and white. If something they love isn't what they thought it was, they feel betrayed for some reason. I said this like 6 years ago but I'll say it again, if 10 people composed Star Wars, it wouldn't make it any less genius. It's just ridiculous to assume that one man or woman does everything by him or her self. Film lives and breathes collaboration, so why can't its music? No one talks about assistant directors or anything like that. What if a great shot in a Spielberg film wasn't actually his idea? Oh no, the horror!!!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

sorry koray but what you are saying diminishes what a genius in art means.

if it was a painting, what? this is not like letting an apprentice pain the robes or background, or sky. Its like the famous painter makes the head. another one the hands. other the legs. another the body, other the background...etc...

you can say it is a good painting but it is not a masterpiece by 'someone'. since a lot of people worked on that. neither of them are real geniouses since they only contributed a little on the final product.

BTW this is preposterous, it wouldnt work, and to some extent, in music it neither does.

star was as you say it would be a good score. but it would not be considered anyone's masterpiece or genius mind at work.

[crocodile 8,018]

*cough* Angela Morley *cough*

Karol

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I'm sorry, I refuse to believe that; and you clearly don't understand how Zimmer used to compose.

Name me your favorite movie, and tell me who do you credit for it? The director? What about the editor? Production and costume designer? It's a cohesive whole, one cannot exist without the other.

Film is radically different than painting, so is music. You can't have a band with one man.

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

I agree. Single credit is worth more than anything. When you listen to Symphony No. 9, it is hair-raising and humbling to know it came from a single person's mind. When I hear E.T. I am in awe because one man did what he did with the music.

But if an entire conference room full of people chatted and came-up with music of all things, its a much diminished achievement. Look at this Zimmer page over at Filmtracks.com - http://www.filmtracks.com/composers/zimmer.shtml

So fucking irritating that everything has co-wrote beside it.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Yep, John Williams does it all by himself. No help whatsoever. Should we credit session musicians, orchestrators, copyists, mixers and programmers? Nah he can do all that on his own.

I'm done. See you all in another month.

[crocodile 8,018]

Oh btw I forgot to list my favourite themes from Zimmermann. Like the love theme from POTC2, I like the Kraken music (I really do), Sherlock's theme, there some good stuff in The Peacemaker, The Lion King, Hannibal. He's a good tunesmith, actually. Not necessarily in an orchestral sense, but he can muster a good melody when he wants to.

I think a debate between traditional scoring fans and Zimmer fans is pointless anyway. Zimmer is not Williams-like composer and he never wanted nor intended to be one. And that's why most of his recent output is really good. Not necessarily my cup of tea, but I think he's really good at what he does. And, apparently, the industry agrees with me.

Karol

[Wojo 2,453]

Yep, John Williams does it all by himself. No help whatsoever. Should we credit session musicians, orchestrators, copyists, mixers and programmers? Nah he can do all that on his own.

I'm done. See you all in another month.

Why does the jingoist devotion to John Williams surprise you anymore here, man?

[bondo 33]

Zimmer likes composing with other people, get used to it and move on. It's not going to change.

[Brónach 1,302]

Yep, John Williams does it all by himself. No help whatsoever. Should we credit session musicians, orchestrators, copyists, mixers and programmers? Nah he can do all that on his own.

I'm done. See you all in another month.

That is not what they are saying Koray. The people you mention don't write the score.

[KK 3,307]

I personally feel that Zimmer is at his best when he actually flies solo with a score. This rarely happens these days, but he really does tend to shine when he writes a score without his assistants. His most recent solo compositions have been great scores like The Da Vinci Code, The Last Samurai, Spanglish, Pearl Harbor. I wish he'd do another score by himself again.

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

I like more Thomas Newman these days than Zimmer. Newman follows more his individual inner voice and hansu

is more fascinated his own brilliant composing skills. That can be heard in his music.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Yep, John Williams does it all by himself. No help whatsoever. Should we credit session musicians, orchestrators, copyists, mixers and programmers? Nah he can do all that on his own.

I'm done. See you all in another month.

that you dare to compare Zimmer and Williams in this 'collaborators' issue is MIND BLOWING, by the least.

When Williams writes his concert works, without any kind of deadline, i have to suppose the does it 100% himself. Like the classical composers. (like the true composer he is).

[Brónach 1,302]

Exactly, the composing is all his, normally. Copying the music for the musicians is not part of the creative writing, although they can indeed collaborate or give each other ideas (an artist can't work all alone, you need a source of opinions on what you're doing). However, Koray's examples with Zimmer are a group of several people doing the creative writing, ie, something with several authors. Which is unlike doing a complete work yourself. This is kind of evident... if it annoys you I don't know what to say. Be annoyed if you want. But the comparison you did there is puzzling.

I also tend to like Zimmer when he writes stuff solo.

[Quintus 5,399]

Yep, John Williams does it all by himself. No help whatsoever. Should we credit session musicians, orchestrators, copyists, mixers and programmers? Nah he can do all that on his own.

I'm done. See you all in another month.

C'mon Koray, that's completely different. You're being a drama queen. Just because the chef has someone pan frying the fish and somebody else prepping the vegetables doesn't mean he didn't originally create the dish all by himself. In Zimmer's kitchen on the other hand, he shares his basic concept for the main course with his cooks and then encourages them to contribute to it with their own ideas and suggestions, making a hot dish which was every bit the collaborative effort by the time it's ready to go.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

You're making me feel hungry...

[Quintus 5,399]

As analogies go, it was a particularly awesome and scrumptious one.

[chuck 154]

For some reason I'm thinking of gumbo.

[Thor 7,519]

Oh God, not this boring 'composing in collaboration' debate again....

*sigh*

Does it really matter? Do we complain about a band's music because a song is often written by multiple band members? Why not enjoy (or evalute) the END RESULT, the music as is?

Zimmer writes most of his stuff solo, but when he gets other composers in, he makes sure to credit them. Perhaps even more than most other composers. He says himself that that's because of his background in various bands. I think that's a big PLUS, not a drawback.

[chuck 154]

And it all started because I said something which Koray replied to that ended with totally different conversation.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

I agree. You started it. You should be banned. It was nice knowing you. Maybe we'll see each other at HZFan.com

[chuck 154]

Hey. You can't ban a person who unknowingly started it, banning a person who's not supposed to be banned is utterly cruel, in fact you're the one's supposed to be banned since you stoke the flames of dispute and hatred, that banning you should also be the dawn of the new era of pace and harmony. Capisce!!!

[Quintus 5,399]

Oh God, not this boring 'composing in collaboration' debate again....

*sigh*

Does it really matter?

This is about clarity, it's about people having a a genuine interest in how these things come about. So yes, it matters. For my part, collaboration in music isn't a bad thing - if a concept goes on to be designed with collaboration in mind from its beginning then what's the problem? There simply isn't one. There's no need to get defensive, Thor. Your sighing and overreaction is more tiresome than any debate on the subject.

[SF1_freeze 131]

Clearly, easily, without any question both big themes of The Lion King. The only Zimmer score which comes near to JW level of greatness.

[KK 3,307]

Zimmer writes most of his stuff solo, but when he gets other composers in, he makes sure to credit them. Perhaps even more than most other composers. He says himself that that's because of his background in various bands. I think that's a big PLUS, not a drawback.

As far as these days goes, that's not true. The last Zimmer wrote a score by himself was the Da Vinci Code and that was years ago. It's good that he at least credits the guys he works with, but he seriously needs to compose a score by himself, that's when he's at his best.

[Thor 7,519]

Oh God, not this boring 'composing in collaboration' debate again....

*sigh*

Does it really matter?

This is about clarity, it's about people having a a genuine interest in how these things come about. So yes, it matters. For my part, collaboration in music isn't a bad thing - if a concept goes on to be designed with collaboration in mind from its beginning then what's the problem? There simply isn't one. There's no need to get defensive, Thor. Your sighing and overreaction is more tiresome than any debate on the subject.

No, it's very much a suitable reaction.

Why? Because the whole debate is completely non-sensical. What people should be focussing on is the end result, not the process. The process can be interesting too, but NOT a way to draw evaluative judgement. You don't say that "Comfortably Numb" is a poor song because it was written by Roger Waters and David Gilmour together. It can be interesting to chart which elements belong to who (if at all possible), but ultimately a far more interesting aspect -- at least to me -- is how it holds up as a song in itself. That's also the only -- the ONLY! -- way to evaluate it.

[Brónach 1,302]

Why? Because the whole debate is completely non-sensical. What people should be focussing on is the end result, not the process. The process can be interesting too, but NOT a way to draw evaluative judgement. You don't say that "Comfortably Numb" is a poor song because it was written by Roger Waters and David Gilmour together. It can be interesting to chart which elements belong to who (if at all possible), but ultimately a far more interesting aspect -- at least to me -- is how it holds up as a song in itself. That's also the only -- the ONLY! -- way to evaluate it.

You're not getting the point at all. This discussion is not about how good it is at the end, other than we like Zimmer's solo efforts. It's about the concept of authory of the final work. What they said is that if someone makes a great work by himself, it's clearly because of his dedication and effort, but if a few people do the same great thing, that dedication and effort can't be atributed to a single one, but several, and they had to do less.So the final works can be equally brilliant but the merits of the creators are very tricky.

[Thor 7,519]

Why? Because the whole debate is completely non-sensical. What people should be focussing on is the end result, not the process. The process can be interesting too, but NOT a way to draw evaluative judgement. You don't say that "Comfortably Numb" is a poor song because it was written by Roger Waters and David Gilmour together. It can be interesting to chart which elements belong to who (if at all possible), but ultimately a far more interesting aspect -- at least to me -- is how it holds up as a song in itself. That's also the only -- the ONLY! -- way to evaluate it.

You're not getting the point at all. This discussion is not about how good it is at the end, other than we like Zimmer's solo efforts. It's about the concept of authory of the final work. What they said is that if someone makes a great work by himself, it's clearly because of his dedication and effort, but if a few people do the same great thing, that dedication and effort can't be atributed to a single one, but several, and they had to do less.So the final works can be equally brilliant but the merits of the creators are very tricky.

Well, I agree with that, but got the feeling that evaluative judgements were being drawn (about Zimmer, but also the works themselves) based purely on the fact that some of them are collaborative efforts. That's an attitude I've seen many times over the years, and it annoys me like there's no tomorrow. Maybe that's why I often 'snap' when I see it surface. It doesn't make any sense to me at all.

[Brónach 1,302]

That woulnd't make any sense indeed (I love films and they're a collaborative thing. Hell, I'm working on a comic book collaborating with another). So a thing mde by several can be great. However it can also happen that it's just not liked, and they atribute it to the collaboration thing not working out (which can happen).

[chuck 154]

See the thing is, I like Hans Zimmer's works a lot to the point where I can easily spot his "influence" or work. But unlike you avid HZ/MV/RC listeners out there, I don't have any knowledge with the works of his collaborators like Nick Glennie-Smith or Lorne Balfe. So when I saw something like "Music by Hans Zimmer & Lorne Balfe", I would not even know the difference of their styles or how they sounded different. To me it's all Hans Zimmer. There I said it.

[Thor 7,519]

See the thing is, I like Hans Zimmer's works a lot to the point where I can easily spot his "influence" or work. But unlike you avid HZ/MV/RC listeners out there, I don't have any knowledge with the works of his collaborators like Nick Glennie-Smith or Lorne Balfe. So when I saw something like "Music by Hans Zimmer & Lorne Balfe", I would not even know the difference of their styles or how they sounded different. To me it's all Hans Zimmer. There I said it.

I think that's perfectly understandable, since Zimmer is so hugely influential and most of his collaborators on these scores have him as the 'mentor'. It also makes sense to have a score that sounds unified. The JNH/Zimmer collab on the BATMAN films is a good example. Very seamless, and I personally couldn't tell what was what untill it was pointed out to me.

I also think it's great to acknowledge those composers who have broken out of the RC mold and created their own, distinct sound away from that. Like John Powell. Or Ramin Djawadi.

[chuck 154]

Ramin Djawadi? Please!!! I listened to a couple of his scores and let me tell you, I'm not impressed. I just got into the Game of Thrones show and I don't get what the hoopla is all about.

[Thor 7,519]

Ramin Djawadi? Please!!! I listened to a couple of his scores and let me tell you, I'm not impressed. I just got into the Game of Thrones show and I don't get what the hoopla is all about.

The latter was an eye-opener (ear-opener?) to me. That fantastic main theme and also the folkloristic colours (that are modern at the same time) for the rest of the score. I thought IRON MAN was OK, but GoT showed me more of his musical identity. Time will show how he will continue to grow into his own.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[chuck 154]

Ramin Djawadi? Please!!! I listened to a couple of his scores and let me tell you, I'm not impressed. I just got into the Game of Thrones show and I don't get what the hoopla is all about.

There is no "hoopla" about Djabadabada's score for Game Of Thrones.

Oh. Goopgoop?

[KK 3,307]

Ramin Djawadi? Please!!! I listened to a couple of his scores and let me tell you, I'm not impressed. I just got into the Game of Thrones show and I don't get what the hoopla is all about.

There is no "hoopla" about Djabadabada's score for Game Of Thrones.

Ramin Djawadi? Please!!! I listened to a couple of his scores and let me tell you, I'm not impressed. I just got into the Game of Thrones show and I don't get what the hoopla is all about.

The latter was an eye-opener (ear-opener?) to me. That fantastic main theme and also the folkloristic colours (that are modern at the same time) for the rest of the score. I thought IRON MAN was OK, but GoT showed me more of his musical identity.

WTF? You're lunatic, Thunder God! Folkloristic colours?!! Musical identity?!! The air of Asgard must have driven you mad! You should come down into the real world!

Exactly! The main theme is catchy, sure...but not something to rave about. The score may be Djawadi's best score, but that doesnt say much at all. The score has moments of appeal (like the finale and the nice Starks theme). But it remains a terribly weak score...and God those synth samples are HORRIBLE! Even for MV/RC standards.

And Djawadi is not a name you list beside Powell. Djawadi is clearly the worst of the MV/RC crew at the moment.

[chuck 154]

Ramin Djawadi? Please!!! I listened to a couple of his scores and let me tell you, I'm not impressed. I just got into the Game of Thrones show and I don't get what the hoopla is all about.

There is no "hoopla" about Djabadabada's score for Game Of Thrones.

Ramin Djawadi? Please!!! I listened to a couple of his scores and let me tell you, I'm not impressed. I just got into the Game of Thrones show and I don't get what the hoopla is all about.

The latter was an eye-opener (ear-opener?) to me. That fantastic main theme and also the folkloristic colours (that are modern at the same time) for the rest of the score. I thought IRON MAN was OK, but GoT showed me more of his musical identity.

WTF? You're lunatic, Thunder God! Folkloristic colours?!! Musical identity?!! The air of Asgard must have driven you mad! You should come down into the real world!

Exactly! The main theme is catchy, sure...but not something to rave about. The score may be Djawadi's best score, but that doesnt say much at all. The score has moments of appeal (like the finale and the nice Starks theme). But it remains a terribly weak score...and God those synth samples are HORRIBLE! Even for MV/RC standards.

And Djawadi is not a name you list beside Powell. Djawadi is clearly the worst of the MVX/RC crew at the moment.

Yeah. Powell is great. I'm glad he finally took off on his own.

[KK 3,307]

Yeah. Powell is great. I'm glad he finally took off on his own.

Powell has such a great level of consistency in quality that puts him above so many other composers. It's why I love the guy so much.

Other composers who have proven that they can produce some great scores when they set themselves apart from the MV/RC mess include guys like Klaus Badelt or more recently, Henry Jackman. Even Steve Jablonsky showed he can be an interesting composer with his score for Steamboy (although he hasn't really done much good besides that).

[Thor 7,519]

And Djawadi is not a name you list beside Powell. Djawadi is clearly the worst of the MV/RC crew at the moment.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that. He's not impressed me previously, but with GoT I see some promise. Time will tell.