Varese re-issues Jerry Goldsmith's Chinatown without expanding it - and other labels comment

[Jay 37,548]

CHINATOWN

Original Motion Picture Soundtrack

Music Composed and Conducted by Jerry Goldsmith

It’s one of the greatest film scores of all time!

It’s one of the all-time classic soundtrack albums!

Chinatown has been remastered and sounds better than ever!

In a legendary performance, three-time Academy Award® winner Jack Nicholson stars as private eye Jake Gittes. Hired by a mysterious woman to investigate Hollis Mulwray, the chief engineer of the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power, Gittes’ sleuthing brings him into contact with Mulwray’s wife (Academy Award® winner Faye Dunaway), a stunning socialite with secrets of her own. As a determined Gittes delves deeper he soon realizes that even the City of Angels has a dark side. Director Roman Polanski’s Chinatown has evolved from an atmospheric film noir mystery into a modern day classic, with Robert Towne’s Academy Award®-winning script unforgettably and brilliantly capturing a lost era of deceit, corruption and treachery.

Just in time for the film’s glorious debut on Blu-ray DVD, Jerry Goldsmith’s classic Chinatown returns in this definitive presentation after being out of print for over a decade.

CDs expected to begin shipping the week of May 29.

Limited Edition of 3000 copies

Price: $19.98

Catalog #: VCL 0512 1129

1. Love Theme From Chinatown (Main Title) (2:04)

2. Noah Cross (2:31)

3. Easy Living (1:51) (Leo Robin & Ralph Rainger)

4. Jake And Evelyn (2:47)

5. I Can’t Get Started (3:38) (Ira Gershwin & Vernon Duke) Performed by Bunny Berigan & His Orchestra

6. The Last Of Ida (3:01)

7. The Captive (3:11)

8. The Boy On A Horse (2:08)

9. The Way You Look Tonight (2:19) (Dorothy Fields & Jerome Kern)

10. The Wrong Clue (2:35)

11. J.J. Gittes (3:09)

12. Love Theme From Chinatown (End Title) (2:03)

http://www.varesesar...hinatown/Detail

That's right, a straight re-issue of the original LP, despite the fact that there are ~10 minutes of cues used in the film that remain unreleased (plus who knows how many unused alternates, not to mention an entire rejected score).

In the FSM thread for the release, some people have been making some great comments:

Bruce Kimmel, of Kritzerland Records:

Definitive. I do love hyperbole as much as the next fellow, but definitive, I should think, would mean complete and this is just the same old soundtrack album we've had for years. How much better can it sound? It's a nice release for those who never managed to get it, but the hyperbole is completely unnecessary.

I don't think anyone is upset with this release. I think Varese does this to themselves with their endless and unnecessary hyperbole - when you call something DEFINITIVE then it should be definitive. Words have meanings.

The only pity part is that one of the labels who are releasing Paramount material didn't get this because then we would have had it complete and probably the Lambro score, too. Varese clearly hasn't cracked Paramount yet - a simple look at their club releases will tell you that.

MV Gerhard, of La-La Land Records:

Also isn't there a rejected score as well?

Pure laziness, plain and simple

MV

Ford A Thaxton:

I offer no comment

http://itunes.apple....ion/id450687459

Ford A. Thaxton

Jeff Bond

I got the iTunes release months ago and it sounds quite good--wonder how this version sounds. The original ABC album is a classic sequence and I can certainly understand the aesthetic reasons for keeping it the same; I do hope for an expanded release someday though as there are a number of cues I'd love to hear in good sound, especially the climactic, staccato drive into Chinatown.

Source: http://filmscoremont...mID=1&archive=0

[Romão 2,276]

Chinatown is a wonderful album (like Goldsmith himself wanted it), that has been out of print for far too long. I see no problem in seeing a classic score back in print again. I wouln't particularly value it more were it expanded. This score doesn't really demand it

[Jay 37,548]

Right, but what would have been the harm if the OST presentation had been retained, with the additional unreleased cues added to the end?

[scallenger 487]

Ugh, I may have to agree with all the comments from the other labels above. I'm sure Varese's future "re-issues" will really piss some more people off. For example, I bet they will eventually reissue Goldsmith's LIONHEART, which is a great score that has been out of print for years. However, how much do you wanna bet they will only release their 1 CD "best of " version, and not both volumes that were originally released? That's what I thought. And will re-issuing scores like Chinatown make it that much harder for an expansion in the next few years? This could make them end up being the most hated soundtrack label by virtually everyone out there.

[Romão 2,276]

Right, but what would have been the harm if the OST presentation had been retained, with the additional unreleased cues added to the end?

No harm, naturally. But I'd reckon very little music is missing, but I can't be sure

[Trent B 337]

Ugh, I may have to agree with all the comments from the other labels above. I'm sure Varese's future "re-issues" will really piss some more people off. For example, I bet they will eventually reissue Goldsmith's LIONHEART, which is a great score that has been out of print for years. However, how much do you wanna bet they will only release their 1 CD "best of " version, and not both volumes that were originally released? That's what I thought. And will re-issuing scores like Chinatown make it that much harder for an expansion in the next few years? This could make them end up being the most hated soundtrack label by virtually everyone out there.

Yup as I said in another thread and agree with MV, these "encore" releases are pointless and stupid. Now I know that these "encore" re-issues cater to people who didn't get them the first time around but it's still rather retarded.

It's just like with Sony re-releasing The Phantom Menace OST yet it can still be readily available.

[Jay 37,548]

Chinatown is NOT part of the "Encore" series. It's a normal Club release.

[Jay 37,548]

Right, but what would have been the harm if the OST presentation had been retained, with the additional unreleased cues added to the end?

No harm, naturally. But I'd reckon very little music is missing, but I can't be sure

Read Jeff Bond's comments. He says important cues are missing, and who am I to argue with him

[Romão 2,276]

That's a wasted opportunity, then...

[Admiral Holdo 16]

The Encore series isn't necessarily a bad idea. Not expanding Chinatown, on the other hand, is a massive missed opportunity.

[Incanus 5,736]

Chinatown is NOT part of the "Encore" series. It's a normal Club release.

Read Jeff Bond's comments. He says important cues are missing, and who am I to argue with him

That's a wasted opportunity, then...

Indeed, especially if this is a CD club release. They might have put some extra effort into this, certainly because it is such a classic score.

[indy4 155]

Wow, I've never seen other labels ganging up on another one before. I guess it is Varese's fault if they really described it as "definitive."

[Jay 37,548]

Kritzerland and LLL were probably a little annoyed because they knew that if they got the release, they would have done it right.

Varese has been dropping the ball for 2 years or so now. I dunno what is happening over there. At the same time, LLL and Intrada have been knocking it out of the park left and right...

[Wojo 2,453]

I see two new copies of the original disc at Amazon for $109.99 and that ought to plummet any time now.

People should just stick to either the Amazon or iTunes presentation for $10 and save the other $10 that Varese wants to charge for this re-issue.

[Trent B 337]

Chinatown is NOT part of the "Encore" series. It's a normal Club release.

My bad.

[ManofDestiny 72]

If the OST presentation is really that good for keeping, they should release it in two CD. One complete score, one OST Album. That can even add extra, alternate cue in the second disc, like what Intrada did.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

This could make them end up being the most hated soundtrack label by virtually everyone out there.

That'd be Perseverance. MV flat out said Robin is an idiot, I believe. It really isn't a quality label, they also do straight reissues and are proud that they can sell them for $12. They did Morricone's Exorcist II recently. Their newsletter says they have a "holy grail" score coming soon, but I can't imagine it being anything that great. Who'd want to work with them after the Slipstream fiasco?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,267]

Geez, so much bitching and whining here!

[Incanus 5,736]

Geez, so much bitching and whining here!

We are talking about film music fans here. What did you expect?

And now you should do a Gollum happy dance to compensate for all the negativity!

[crocodile 8,093]

Is it just me or does it feel a bit unprofessional to badmouth other label publically like that? Just saying.

Karol

[Incanus 5,736]

Is it just me or does it feel a bit unprofessional to badmouth other label publically like that? Just saying.

Karol

Well a bit or you could take it as constructive criticism. If you can congratulate them for good decisions and triumphs, you should be able to openly speak your mind if you think they could have done something better.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Is it just me or does it feel a bit unprofessional to badmouth other label publically like that? Just saying.

Karol

It's FSM!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,267]

Its very unprofessional, and its not just FSM who is doing it, Koray.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

What's next? Labels rereleasing OSTs still in print?

They're jumping the cello!

[Incanus 5,736]

What's next? Labels rereleasing OSTs still in print?

They're jumping the cello!

Sony has already done that. They just put something like 20th anniversary cashing-in version on the cover and have a collectible covers and a bonus track of dj-remix or sfxs and dialogue version of a theme.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,267]

So I am the only one who find the behaviour of people like Jeff Bond and MV a bit...unprofessional?

[Incanus 5,736]

So I am the only one who find the behaviour of people like Jeff Bond and MV a bit...unprofessional?

So you think it is wrong that these people, as individuals, have issue with Varese for not possibly expanding the score but only rereleasing the OST in the CD Club batch? Or do they now speak for the entire record labels when they voice their dissent?

It is true that MV posts under the name LLL records but I would not presume this is the opinion of anyone but his own.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,548]

I think Varese deserves the criticism

[Richard Penna 3,782]

I thought MV's 'pure laziness' comment was a joke, but maybe it's not.

Varese does seem to approach this whole business from a different angle to the other labels. I guess they're trying to do the 'regular' and 'limited' thing at the same time, and so they don't have the finances or time to do all expansions properly.

[crocodile 8,093]

That's beside the point, Jay. They represent their labels on this website (MV operates under a name "LaLa Records" for god's sake).

Besides, I don't quite get all the hate Varese is getting. The majority of my collection has been released by them (and I'm sure yours as well). Their contribution to this business is unparallelled and if not for them we wouldn't be getting all those scores. As far as I remember they pretty much pioneered a lot of this stuff (expanded albums, re-recordings). We owe them some respect.

Karol

[Incanus 5,736]

Respect yes but are they beyond reproach or critique? I am not saying we should lambast Varese entirely but if a release receives negative feedback some people are up the wall and horrified how can anyone wonder and question the logic of the label in this one instance. I think there is some kind of assumption that people in the business should form a wall of solid support for everything fellow label does, which I think is a bit fallible. Good relations and professional behaviour is fine and good and should be maintained but should this stop members of other labels' production team from voicing their opinions publicly about the products of other labels? I have high respect for all the labels, Varese included, but I do not have reverence for them that transforms them sacrosanct and beyond critique.

[Jay 37,548]

I don't quite get all the hate Varese is getting. The majority of my collection has been released by them (and I'm sure yours as well). Their contribution to this business is unparallelled and if not for them we wouldn't be getting all those scores. As far as I remember they pretty much pioneered a lot of this stuff (expanded albums, re-recordings). We owe them some respect.

Karol

Of course. I was making no comment on their years of terrific history. I just feel that in RECENT years they have been dropping the ball and La La Land, Intrada, and FSM have surpassed them on a "putting out consistent top notch releases" level. And I think people are allowed to point ouch as such, especially if they feel they would have released a definitive version of an all-time classic score if they had been given the chance.

[Incanus 5,736]

I don't quite get all the hate Varese is getting. The majority of my collection has been released by them (and I'm sure yours as well). Their contribution to this business is unparallelled and if not for them we wouldn't be getting all those scores. As far as I remember they pretty much pioneered a lot of this stuff (expanded albums, re-recordings). We owe them some respect.

Karol

Of course. I was making no comment on their years of terrific history. I just feel that in RECENT years they have been dropping the ball and La La Land, Intrada, and FSM have surpassed them on a "putting out consistent top notch releases" level. And I think people are allowed to point ouch as such, especially if they feel they would have released a definitive version of an all-time classic score if they had been given the chance.

And it has to be said Varese has produced many highly succesful expanded/complete releases in their CD Club series, among them many terrific Williams scores, and done it in exemplary fashion. I am sure they had their reasons for retaining the Chinatown OST for the new release but I would be interested to hear what they were since there was a good chance and excuse to expand the score for CD Club this time around.

[crocodile 8,093]

Maybe the sessions are lost. Who knows?

Karol

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[crocodile 8,093]

I have succumbed to BloodBoalitis!

Karol

[Luke Skywalker 1,813]

Remember this thread's 1st post when anyone dares to critisize any straight re-issue from varese or any other label.

If labels do it, anyone is entitled to do it also.

I'm glad the labels said that, lately it seemed that nobody could critisize anything from them...

[Neimoidian 14]

"Definitive" is just marketing bullshit. Apart from that I am glad they rereleased that thing as I have been yearning to buy it for years, but couldn't afford it. I can only hope they do the same with The Eiger Sanction.

[Wojo 2,453]

"Definitive" is just marketing bullshit.

Maybe he's the guy that planned the UE.

[crocodile 8,093]

"Definitive" is just marketing bullshit.

Well, I was never really religious so I don't really believe in "definitive". There is always something to add, remove, move, replace, boost and so on...

Karol

[ZackR 95]

I think the point is that Varese COULD HAVE likely made a more definitive release, but chose not to. If all that remained was the album, then it would be as definitive as possible. I think there were other labels that would have LOVED to do it right but instead, it falls to Varese to essentially reissue.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Well none of us knows why it was a straight reissue. Intrada reissued the LP for Monsignor because the people who had control over the complete score didn't want to work with them. The same is probably true for Varese and Paramount, which Bruce Kimmel pointed out on FSM. Although he was implying that Varese should have let another label with a working relationship with Paramount to tackle the project.

[Incanus 5,736]

Well be it as it may, complete or incomplete, this is the release I am going to get.

[crocodile 8,093]

Well yeah, me too.

Guys, I never said anything that i don't want a complete release of this. It's just I find it hard to believe a label would deliberately ignore the demand. They are not the most forthcoming people, sure, but probaby there is some stuff they're not telling us.

Karol

[TownerFan 4,992]

I think we should be very pragmatic. Any label knows Chinatown is a powerhouse title and a sure seller, no matter how complete the release is. It's also a classic OST album, hence there's more than a reason to keep it in print. But do you honestly think this will be the last time we'll see it released on disc?

[crocodile 8,093]

Nope.

Karol

[Richard Penna 3,782]

Well none of us knows why it was a straight reissue. Intrada reissued the LP for Monsignor because the people who had control over the complete score didn't want to work with them. The same is probably true for Varese and Paramount, which Bruce Kimmel pointed out on FSM. Although he was implying that Varese should have let another label with a working relationship with Paramount to tackle the project.

It wouldn't be so bad if Varese mentioned these things a little more. If the composer asked that music be omitted, then mention (like Intrada does) that so-and-so created the program themselves. If they couldn't get master rights, then just mention that additional material wasn't available.

And particularly if they are going to use the 'deluxe' or 'definitive' labels.

I think that would be far better than just putting it out, and hoping that customers either don't notice or don't mind. I remember Intrada mentioning Road House being delayed because they couldn't find a reel of music. Varese would never make that sort of communication with their customers in a million years.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

That's because Varese don't pre-announce until the product is ready.

We know Varese don't like the internet community and they don't communicate, so why is everyone up in arms? It's nice that from time to time we do get an explanation, but I don't think it should be demanded. After all, we vote with our wallets.

I would readily buy an expansion, but I dofeel the LP program is fantastic and it deserves to be out there. My only gripe is that it's part of the CD club and therefore a limited edition (what is with these low unit numbers for requested scores?). Also I guess that means a faster turnaround for someone else to issue it.

[Richard Penna 3,782]

Lack of pre-announcements is not the same thing as neglecting to say "we present the remastered album to xxx. Couldn't find the masters for this one, sorry."

Generally, re-releases are expected to have some form of expansion, and I'm just saying that the other labels do a good job of clarifying the situation if more material if it wasn't possible.