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Jurassic Park 20th Anniversary OST (Digital only release)

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If the company offers you no way to give them money for a product or service, stealing is not amoral.

Really? So if I have a bicycle business and decide not to sell my bikes anymore and close the doors, it's okay for you to break into my building and take whichever bike you want?

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If I could do it without breaking and entering, which is a completely different crime, then yes. Just leave your bikes outside and unguarded; they'll be fine.

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If I could do it without breaking and entering, which is a completely different crime, then yes. Just leave your bikes outside and unguarded; they'll be fine.

So the fact that I own the bikes, paid for them with my own money, and will suffer a loss when you take one, is irrelevant to you. You want one, so you should be able to take one, and the fact that I own them matters nothing to you. Want-take-have. Wonderful world-view you've got there.

It's bizarre that you have so little regard for the rights of others, but yet you balk at breaking and entering. If you're willing to steal a bicycle (and, one supposes, anything else) from its rightful and legal owner just because you want it and think you're entitled to it, it's strange indeed that something as minor as a closed window or a locked door becomes a rubicon that you will not cross. Or is it just that the penalty is much greater if you're caught doing those things while stealing that gives you pause? That would indeed be more in line with your "it's all about me" philosophy of life.

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Actually, I would ask why you have a bicycle shop in a neighborhood but you won't cater to the local population. You tease the children with merchandise in the windows, but your doors are barred and you never open for business.

Because a website that offers music for sale, like most websites not blocked by freedom hating governments, is a global store. Its neighborhood is the world, and browsers worldwide are potential customers. But your store checks their home address or IP address before allowing a purchase to be made. I suppose your bicycle shop on an Austria street looks closed to the locals, but flash an American ID by the windows, and the Oompa Loompas come to life, ready to sell bikes.

As a store owner who caters to a select customer base, you must be prepared to accept the financial loss represented by not selling to a wider population. They would gladly give you money in exchange for goods, and if they cannot because you won't sell to them, do not take the high condescending road when they resort to other means.

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You can't compare digital music to bikes anyway. One is depriving the owner of a physical item, and the other isn't.

And:


As a store owner who caters to a select customer base, you must be prepared to accept the financial loss represented by not selling to a wider population. They would gladly give you money in exchange for goods, and if they cannot because you won't sell to them, do not take the high condescending road when they resort to other means.

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Actually, I would ask why you have a bicycle shop in a neighborhood but you won't cater to the local population. You tease the children with merchandise in the windows, but your doors are barred and you never open for business.

Maybe I'm in the midst of contract negotiations with a supplier, maybe my inventory is tied up in probate, maybe any number of things of which you have no clue, but nevertheless apparently believe it's your right to just take a bike anyway, merely because you want one and feel entitled to it.

You can't compare digital music to bikes anyway. One is depriving the owner of a physical item, and the other isn't.

But he apparently doesn't care whether the item is physical or not. He said it in his own words: whether it's a bike or an mp3, if he wants something of mine, he feels entitled to take it, my feelings to the contrary be damned.The only thing that will apparently (and bizarrely) stop him is a locked door.

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You can't compare digital music to bikes anyway. One is depriving the owner of a physical item, and the other isn't.

Indeed. Which is why a violation of copyright is an entirely different issue than stealing.

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You can't compare digital music to bikes anyway. One is depriving the owner of a physical item, and the other isn't.

Indeed. Which is why a violation of copyright is an entirely different issue than stealing.

Yeah, but the guy has made it clear that he has no problem with either infringement *or* stealing. If he wants it, and you have it, and you won't let him buy it, he's of the opinion that he's entitled to take it.

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You can't compare digital music to bikes anyway. One is depriving the owner of a physical item, and the other isn't.

Indeed. Which is why a violation of copyright is an entirely different issue than stealing.

Yeah, but the guy has made it clear that he has no problem with either infringement *or* stealing. If he wants it, and you have it, and you won't let him buy it, he's of the opinion that he's entitled to take it.

Haven't you been on this forum for years? It's Wojo.

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The classic "digital download versus physical item in a brick and mortar shop" analogy argument stops working after a while. In fact, it gets pretty bizarre.

This website, HDTracks or whatever it's called, doesn't offer digital downloads in the specific country where I live, but I want it anyways. How do I get it? If we stay entirely within the confines of the law, I can never own the music. I can have one billion dollars and I can never purchase the music simply because I live in the wrong country. Throw out the irrelevant arguments that I could buy a house in the legally sanctioned country or buy out the company outright.

How is this like a company building a bike shop in certain country, lining its shelves and display windows with merchandise, but then never opening for business? Well it's not. For one thing, when I "illegally" and "amorally" acquire the downloaded music in the country that happens to not be legally recognized to buy the music, I have not actually committed a crime against the music company directly. No, forget copyright infringement for now; it's coming. I can only get the music because of people who are either generous or just have contempt for copyright law, but the key is that they live in the country where the music can be legally purchased. They buy it, post it online, share the link with the world, and I download it free of charge. There are a few key differences here.

For starters, I have not attacked the musical website itself. Sure, if I want the actual bicycle that you are so selfishly keeping under lock and key, I have to break a window or knock down the door and take the bicycle. Breaking and entering is a crime. The removal of physical inventory is also illegal. That leaves fingerprints on the building, and my shoe prints in the mud, and the security cameras have my face and soon entire cities are shut down looking for me...and we know they'll find me. Oh, and you're missing a bicycle from your inventory, which you can clearly count as being missing. If I want to do the same thing to the music website...much different. I wouldn't dare. I'm not a hacker. I have no idea how to directly attack a corporately owned and operated website or file server system that stores music. They would have my fingerprints, so to speak. My IP. My ISP would gladly hand me over to the authorities because hacking is kind of a big deal, and since I'm not a very good one, I would be easy to find.

For some reason, we have a bicycle shop in a town that fills its shop windows and shelves with bicycles, that people walking by might want, but we aren't allowed to buy them. Ok, if there are legal issues, fine, there's a sign in the door. If there are supplier quality issues, they'll be worked out and the store will reopen. No, what's happening here is that it's 1950s Alabama and white folks are walking in and buying bicycles, but since I'm black, I'm not allowed to carry my bike to the checkout line (or even enter). It's early 1930s Berlin and I wanted a new bike for Passover, but I had to ask my good friend Hans if he wouldn't mind asking his mom for the Easter Bunny to bring him two. This guy has a store that only a special minority can buy from, and the rest of the world is prohibited from participating based solely on geographical boundaries.

Now unfortunately, this guy assumes that me and all my other thief buddies are dishonest. He believes that we download illegally just because we can, which implies that we would never buy anything because it's easier to download for free.

I said:

If the company offers you no way to give them money for a product or service, stealing is not amoral.

In my foreign country, I will download the music for free from my beer-guzzling gun-shooting redneck-loving Amerikanski friend simply because the legal store will not sell to me. However, if I am an honest man, which is apparently at stake here, I will do the right thing and delete the illegal copy and buy the legal song the way the good Lord intended us to make online purchases as soon as the opportunity presents itself.

Is this like bicycles? Well, sure. I wanted a bike but the shop wouldn't sell to me. I didn't want to break in and enter, so I asked my good friend Steve to build me a perfect copy of the special bicycle with his fancy bicycle copying machine. Since, after all, it's very easy to copy a bicycle using a home computer, and no other store anywhere in my little communist enclave sells bicycles. Once the store opens and I can go in and buy a bike, well, I'd like to think my two mothers and a Lithuanian trapeze chimpanzee raised me to be a model citizen, and destroy that immaculate copy of a bicycle and then go buy the real thing.

Oh wait, you can't copy bicycles. That would mean I actually entered the store, grabbed a bicycle, and walked out, all without breaking the glass or opening a door. So if the bike shop owner returns the next day, he finds....no wait, that's odd. There were 47 bikes there last night, and there are still 47 bikes there today. That's odd. I could have sworn that thief was out there riding a bicycle.

Oh right. Copyright. That magical word that turns a thought or idea or sound or smell or other non-tangible item into something that can in fact be branded, shelved, and sold. Sure, they take time and overhead and expense. And if copyrighted works are available for purchase in a region, but people download them anyways, I generally take offense to that. (Hey, anyone know where I can download the Ron Jones Star Trek Box Set? Not really interested, but still.) But if you say "I have a copyrighted work but you live in Tanganyika, so.......get bent," you're basically telling them they can do what they want. It's not affecting your bottom line because you've already subconsciously written them off as potential customers...but if you were hoping to sell to your complete legally sanctioned population before that moment, your business model was significantly inadequate.

Since HDTracks does sell to Americans, you would assume that 100% of all copies present inside the territorial range of the United States of America and her Territories would have been purchased legally. You also hope that nobody ever breaks into a bicycle shop and steals a bicycle. If you believe these two statements to be always true, say hi to Frodo and Harry Potter for me.

If you have a bicycle shop full of expensive merchandise sitting in an area that wants it, and you make no move to sell product to them, and your store is broken into, you planned poorly. You work out your legal and quality issues before you line the shelves or you hire guards to sit out front. If you can't do that, and I really appreciate you not or else America and those who profit from online piracy, would have to wait a very, very, very long time for all of the legal issues to be ironed out before HDTracks will sell to their nation.

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For starters, I have not attacked the musical website itself. Sure, if I want the actual bicycle that you are so selfishly keeping under lock and key, I have to break a window or knock down the door and take the bicycle. Breaking and entering is a crime. The removal of physical inventory is also illegal. That leaves fingerprints on the building, and my shoe prints in the mud, and the security cameras have my face and soon entire cities are shut down looking for me...and we know they'll find me.

So the only thing that stops you, is the likelihood of getting caught?

Lovely.

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5m3 Goat Bait is an unused cue that was originally recorded for the scene when the tour cars stop at the T-Rex Paddock for the first time. It is the first part of track 14: Eye to Eye (0:00 to 2:20).

The second part of the track is 11m2 Preparing to Meet the Monster (2:20 to the end of the track), depicting the scene where Ellie and Muldoon head to look for the maintenance shed.

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OK, thanks. Unused makes sense. It seems like there are a few places that are more heavily edited than others (either on the album or in the film, I don't know which), including music that doesn't appear in the film. I also noticed the stinger at Arnold's severed arm is the same as right after the utensils fall in the kitchen scene.

~Conor



But I haven't yet heard all of the newly released cues, so it could be from the start of that track, too.

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What is this "Goat Bait" track? I can't find it in the film.

It was written for the scene where they use a goat as bait

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What do you mean?

Have you not seen the film?

There is a scene in the film where a goat is raised from the ground in order to bait the T-Rex into coming out and eating it, so the people in the cars can see the T-Rex. It doesn't work.

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What do you mean?

Have you not seen the film?

There is a scene in the film where a goat is raised from the ground in order to bait the T-Rex into coming out and eating it, so the people in the cars can see the T-Rex. It doesn't work.

it works... later on :P

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I do despair that sarcasm does not easily come through text, although I suppose I should be grateful of the reminder that it is not always appeciated or appropriate.



Indeed, it works both to entice the rex and to scare the daylights out of Lex.

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I could have sworn that the music for Ellie's escape from the maintenance shed was on the original album, but it seems like it would be part of "Hungry Raptor." I don't have the new release yet, so I can't confirm this. Why do I feel like I've heard it outside of the the film?

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Can anyone tell me where 3:32 in " The Coming Storm " ( downward flute figure ) comes from. I'm sure this track on the CD is a compilation from many cues and i'm trying to match it up with the cue list and sheet music.

many thanks

e

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Listening to the 20th Anniversary OST on Spotify today. Man, I am so, so grateful we got there. Yea, it's digital-only and yea, there are still some cues missing. But what we WERE given is GREAT music and SOUNDS GREAT too.

I just absolutely love the T-Rex Chase music, the history lesson music, the Clever Girl music. All the selections we got are great, and the mini-suites JW comprised them into are definitely effective musically.

My preferred listening experience will be a complete and chronological edit that I will make myself, but what they presented is fine too.

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I'm such a huge fan of the film and score that I'm actually contemplating buying the extra cues for once -- if nothing else because of curiousity's sake. Not necessarily as part of the original album program (which is perfect, IMO), but I can always have them as bonus tracks at the end or something. It's one of those rare cases where there is somewhat of a cross-over appeal for me.

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The bonus tracks ARE presented at the end of the 20th anniversary program.

Unfortunately, Universal has not allowed them to be sold individually, you must buy the entire album (which incidentally was rebuilt from the ground up and remastered anyway, so there's that)

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I see. Well, since I play all my albums from iTunes these days (while all my CD's are dusting away), I might as well 'upgrade'.

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And still not available at all (not even in spotify) in the UK, or probably anywhere except US/Canada.

Universal is insane for losing these revenue streams. (perhaps they had to limit geographically to pay the fees?)

It's still slightly surreal whenever I play one of the bonus tracks and not hearing any sfx.

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You can try buying it at HDTracks. Non-US people have had varying success with it. Apparently, they're actively blocking some countries, but only passively blocking others - I had no problems once I realised that I don't have to use the country selection drop down box when using PayPal.

Regarding the original album, I rather like some of the non-chronological edits (perhaps just because I grew up with them), don't understand some of the sequencing decisions. But those issues aside, it shows one of the side effect problems that album edits may have, even when their re-sequencing works: There's some cool, worthwhile material that was left off the original album, which is only presented as bonus tracks on the new release. And while that's better than nothing, it doesn't really work at that point in the programme. It has that distinct bonus track feeling (like Conveyor Belt on AOTC), doesn't quite seem to belong to the programme proper.

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Nah, if they can't be bothered to officially make if available in my country, why should I jump through hoops.

I too like the suite format quite a lot. It's the bizarre sequencing of those suites that's always bothered me.

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I'm such a huge fan of the film and score that I'm actually contemplating buying the extra cues for once -- if nothing else because of curiousity's sake. Not necessarily as part of the original album program (which is perfect, IMO), but I can always have them as bonus tracks at the end or something. It's one of those rare cases where there is somewhat of a cross-over appeal for me.

Thor, you do realize a lot of score expansions present bonus tracks at the end of the original album arrangement, right?

It'd be interesting to hear your rebuttals against Elfman himself, in regards to the 25th Anniversary Burton set. He says on multiple occasions that he didn't know why he left certain music out and is glad to be able to include it now. Even favoring the C&C presentation for Pee-Wee's Big Adventure and The Nightmare Before Christmas, saying it's really the only proper way to experience the latter.

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I'm not criticizing his opinion. But he's always said that he likes albums because of the artistic wishes of the composer to create a listening experience away from the film. Just curious what he thinks of one of his favorite composers saying complete and chronological is the best listening experience.

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You can try buying it at HDTracks. Non-US people have had varying success with it. Apparently, they're actively blocking some countries, but only passively blocking others - I had no problems once I realised that I don't have to use the country selection drop down box when using PayPal.

There's one thing I've not thought of before:

The tracks are not available here yet because the films' release date is still a month away (23rd of August, to be exact).

Karol

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There's one thing I've not thought of before:

The tracks are not available here yet because the films' release date is still a month away (23rd of August, to be exact).

Certainly. I assumed that was the reason... which still doesn't guarantee that the soundtrack will officially become available here along with the film.

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I'm not criticizing his opinion. But he's always said that he likes albums because of the artistic wishes of the composer to create a listening experience away from the film. Just curious what he thinks of one of his favorite composers saying complete and chronological is the best listening experience.

Well, I've seen interviews where he says the opposite too. In fact, in usual self-critical fashion, he has said about this set that he doesn't understand the need to get all the music (and all the demos etc.), but once the project was on -- based on his agent Richard Kraft's initiative -- he obviously had to support to that. Still, if he does prefer the C&C approach, that's fine by me. I'll just have to disagree with him on that and enjoy the albums that he DOES produce as listening experiences.

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