Star Trek Into Darkness SPOILERS ALLOWED Discussion Thread

[Brónach 1,302]

You can nit pick almost any action / fantasy / sci-fi film to death and find all kinds of problems.

Really?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Mark seems to believe so.

I believe ever film that contradicts their own internal logic, or that of previous films in it series earns critisism.

[Ollie 1,059]

And there are plenty of films that do that.

I won't debate the time it takes to travel because Star Wars and TESB are just as guilty in that dept as well.

[Jay 37,369]

TESB is not! Luke trains with Yoda for months, which is how long it takes for the Millennium Falcon to limp to Bespin

[Ollie 1,059]

Bullshit.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It was never really clear how long Luke trains with Yoda. I agree with Mark.

[Jay 37,369]

It's different anyway because that's just a case of the film not showing how long it takes to get somewhere. In STID Khan had a transwarp device that worked exactly as intended when he wanted it to, then our heroes where never able to save themselves with the same technology the plethora of times it would have come in handy.

[Ollie 1,059]

Darth Vader: "Vader to Slave I, come in Fett."

Boba Fett: "Fett here"

Vader: "We are ready to move in"

Fett: "No give me another month of following them. They've been heading to Bespin for a month but I'm not sure...."

Vader: "We could be there in a day or so..."

Fett: "No, they could change course any moment and limp somewhere else at a slow rate of speed.

Vader: "Seriously Fett, we can have this wrapped up....."

Fett: "No!!!!"

Vader: "Fine I'm going to Bespin, see you in a month."

On Bespin

Lando: Lord Vader you've been here for 3 weeks, couldn't you just intercept the Falcon in route?"

Vader: "No I have a dramatic capture in mind. I want to surprise them in the dining room."

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yes but that is not new in Trek. The transporter could be used many times in scenes but wasnt.

As for complaining about Khan's blood....transporters have been used to clone people, or to restore youth.

[Ollie 1,059]

And kept Scotty alive for 78 years or so.

Plenty of times in Trek's history the transporters seem to malfunction or cannot be used at crucial times.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Like the warp core ejection system never working in TNG

[Uni 306]

Darth Vader: "Vader to Slave I, come in Fett."

Boba Fett: "Fett here"

Vader: "We are ready to move in"

Fett: "No give me another month of following them. They've been heading to Bespin for a month but I'm not sure...."

Vader: "We could be there in a day or so..."

Fett: "No, they could change course any moment and limp somewhere else at a slow rate of speed.

Vader: "Seriously Fett, we can have this wrapped up....."

Fett: "No!!!!"

Vader: "Fine I'm going to Bespin, see you in a month."

On Bespin

Lando: Lord Vader you've been here for 3 weeks, couldn't you just intercept the Falcon in route?"

Vader: "No I have a dramatic capture in mind. I want to surprise them in the dining room."

Heh . . . this was beautifully presented.

I'm an in-betweener on the time-to-distance ratio in the Star Wars films. On the one hand, I don't think they were en route for months . . . but the original saga (at least ANH and TESB, anyway) was very good at showing the "downtime" spent while in hyperspace--playing chess, practicing Jedi techniques, etc. It gave the impression that these journeys took time to make, but didn't obsess about how much time. In retrospect, it made for a very nice and convincing effect.

- Uni

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Star Wars probably has the most ludicrous plot hole of all time at the end.

"Oh...we [in our planet destroying machine] came out of hyperspace on the wrong side of this planet. We will need to orbit around this planet [in our planet destroying super weapon] to get to the other celestial body to destroy, giving the rebels just enough time to scramble together and become a problem."

[Brónach 1,302]

Given that Yavin is dozens of times bigger than any other planet or moon that the Death Star is seen as capable of destroying, I assume it might have been too massive or that the gaseous mantle would have been unsuitable to destruction by the same imaginary technology.

I see Star Wars as a pure fantasy in a world of futuristic appearance, but I still have a sense of scale.

For all I know, Yavin could be a few times the mass of Jupiter. Try blowing that up!

Your mileage may vary. But it worked for me in the film.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

"Oh...we [in our planet destroying machine] came out of hyperspace on the wrong side of this planet.

I always wondered. Does the Death Star do Hyperspace? We only ever see it crawl along.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

yeah it is supposed so...but no visible engines so it must teleport or something

BTW if lucas had kept Luke's longer training montage (as shown/written in the novel, comic, and i think , script) the sense of his training being longer, not months..but at least a week or so would be more clear. As it is, it is a miracle he didnt fall to the dark side with so little training.

[Trent B 337]

I saw the 2009 film today. After Kirk passes out these is a scene on the bridge where Checkov says they are about to arrive. Pike then asks Checkov what his name is.

If the trip to Vulcan tooks days, Pike would have asked sooner.

Kirk passed out in Sickbay, not on the bridge. The trip to Vulcan did NOT take days, it only took three hours. By the way get the spelling right man, it's CHEKOV.

Although Pike should have known who his helmsmen and navigator were before leaving...but ya..

[Uni 306]

BTW if lucas had kept Luke's longer training montage (as shown/written in the novel, comic, and i think , script) the sense of his training being longer, not months..but at least a week or so would be more clear. As it is, it is a miracle he didnt fall to the dark side with so little training.

Forget that. Even if he were there for a year or two . . . wasn't the Jedi Council bitching in Ep. I that Anakin was too old to train? It gives the idea that proper Jedi training takes a large percentage of the formative years of a person's life. We don't know how long Luke was on Dagobah. But realistically, how could he have learned "all you need to know"--as Yoda told him in Ep. VI--in such a short time?

This, however, would indicate that I consider the prequels a source of good information on the Star Wars universe. Since that isn't the case, this is just a minor observation, one I can certainly live with.

- Uni

[Ollie 1,059]

Well Luke was always strong with the force and I imagine between SW and Empire he did self training, well what he could.

More than likely Yoda put him through the crash course, knowing he couldn't waste much time training as the Emperor needed to be overthrown.

By Jedi, he informs Luke he knows all he needs.

When you look at it, it sounds like a half ass plan thrown together by an old dead man and a crazy little green guy.

In theory Luke and Leia should have both been taken to Dagobah as infants and trained to become proper Jedis by Yoda to form a powerful combination that would defeat the Emperor much more easily.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Aaaanyway.

Star Trek anyone?

[Pieter Boelen 740]

On the subject of transporters, here's a question: How come when they say "two to beam up", they actually know WHICH two???

I saw the 2009 film today. After Kirk passes out these is a scene on the bridge where Checkov says they are about to arrive. Pike then asks Checkov what his name is.

If the trip to Vulcan tooks days, Pike would have asked sooner.

Pike has been asking Chekov his name every day of the journey. Either because of his bad memory or because that name is just too strange for him to comprehend.

[Ollie 1,059]

Aaaanyway.

Star Trek anyone?

It's a JWFAN thread. We're allowed to stray off topic and turn it into a Star Wars thread damnit!

[Brónach 1,302]

STAAAAR WAAAAAAARS

[Jay 37,369]

Aaaanyway.

Star Trek anyone?

Well, you have 10 pages of us discussing the film to catch up on now that you've seen it, right?

[Ollie 1,059]

The only scene I didn't like was Nimoy's cameo.

Again, what did he tell him?

[Jay 37,369]

I'd like to know that as well

[Ollie 1,059]

I know I posted something similar before but "well technically we didn't really defeat him, khan blew himself up so your on your own as to how this situation will be resolved."

[JoeinAR 1,949]

On the subject of transporters, here's a question: How come when they say "two to beam up", they actually know WHICH two???

This is easy to answer. The person who said two to beam up, and the person closest to him.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

This is easy to answer. The person who said two to beam up, and the person closest to him.

That would make sense. I remember at least once though where there were three people together and then they decided only two were to beam up.

Then I don't follow it anymore.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

clearly there would be protocols in place for beaming. each person would know the requirements and if they did not the person calling for beaming would be responsible.

[Uni 306]

The only scene I didn't like was Nimoy's cameo.

Again, what did he tell him?

I'd like to know that as well

I don't think this is so difficult to guess. After all, how did they defeat Khan? They outmaneuvered him in the Mutara Nebula, of course, but it would've been at the cost of the entire ship and crew . . . if Spock hadn't given his life to save them. If you speculate that's what Spocktimus Prime told his younger counterpart, then his distress during Kirk's death scene becomes a little more understandable. He knows it was supposed to be him in there. He would perceive Kirk not only as the captain who saved his ship, but as the comrade who took Spock's place.

That's how I read it, anyway. Though I'm not sure why Abrams would choose to cut away instead of letting the audience just hear Spock's response to the question. Maybe he just assumed everyone would know what he was about to say—although that didn't come off too well, did it. . . ?

- Uni

[Jay 37,369]

Nope.

[Wojo 2,453]

Maybe Kirk learned of Spock's sacrifice during the mind meld, and they just didn't film that exchange. Thus he wanted to one up Spock when the opportunity arose, which he did. Unfortunately that makes the Tribble effect such a cheat, albeit a happy one since Chris Pine's tour hasn't run its course.

[Jay 37,369]

What mind meld?

[Ollie 1,059]

The first film on Delta V.

@ Wojo, that's something I've wondered too, if Kirk saw more than he should.

[Wojo 2,453]

The one on Delta Vega. Kirk would have had a while to ponder it.

[Jay 37,369]

Hmmm.

[Ollie 1,059]

See my edit up above.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Sounds like fanboy apologism. At no point in either film is this hinted at.

It also would not explain Spock screaming KHAAAAN! (which got chuckles in the cinema i saw it in)

[Jay 37,369]

Well, he is half-human after all

And we are seeing a younger version of him than ever seen before

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The fact is that Spock's sacrifice did not really beat Khan. Khan took his own life. Spock saved the ship and crew.

Spock in Darkness beats Khan by sending back the torpedo's primed and on a timer. which isnt really what happened in TWOK.

[Uni 306]

Well, he is half-human after all

And we are seeing a younger version of him than ever seen before

And one who's already admitted to being "emotionally compromised" on a pretty big scale. (Vulcan or not, seeing your home world completely obliterated would have some lasting effects.)

Spock in Darkness beats Khan by sending back the torpedo's primed and on a timer. which isnt really what happened in TWOK.

Interesting . . . your connection here makes me wonder whether that was the reference he made:

Spock: "How did you defeat Khan before?"

Spock: "Ultimately, we didn't. A torpedo exploded on his ship."

Spock: "Hmmm. . . ."

- Uni

[Jay 37,369]

I found it kind of a cheat that our heroes could just ask someone from the future for help when they got in trouble.

I was fully expecting the rest of their conversation to be shown later in the film, and was surprised when it wasn't.

[stewdog1 50]

Old Spock should have said to new Spock when he asked what happened, "I died"

And cut the scene there.

Sent from Tapatalk

[Jay 37,369]

AGREED.

Similar to the Red Dragon film

"How'd you beat Hannibal Lector?"

"I let him kill me"

[stewdog1 50]

AGREED.

Similar to the Red Dragon film

"How'd you beat Hannibal Lector?"

"I let him kill me"

Plus it could have given more weight to the kirk death scene and Spocks reaction. He would have thought he was supposed to die, not Kirk, and he screwed up.

Sent from Tapatalk

[Jay 37,369]

Yup.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Spock says to his younger self that he didn't want to reveal anything that could influence Spock's decisions in his future.

I assume that he just told him something about a man's rage or arrogance turning against himself.

In his death scene, Kirk says that Spock turned the thing Khan wanted most against him, to which Spock replies "You would have done the same". So I assume that's what Nimoy-Spock said, about turning Khan against himself.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

But again, that is not what happened in The Wrath

[Wojo 2,453]

"I died" would have been BRILLIANT.