The Force Awakens The Force Awakens SPOILERS ALLOWED Discussion Thread

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Snoke = Luke! Has to be!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Snoke is Palpatine's son! Yes! Awesome!

[leeallen01 2,136]

Hux is Palpatine's son. Palpatine turned himself into a force sperm and vader actually threw him down the deathstar's vagina and he impregnated it. So Hux was the Starkiller Base.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Brilliant! It all makes sense now!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Brilliant!

[crocodile 8,017]

Forgot to mention something. It was really cool that three actors from Raid 2 made an appearance. And in one scene!

Karol

[SteveMc 2,674]

Snoke = Luke! Has to be!

What if?

BTW, will somebody tell me why I, who thought he cared nothing for the Han Solo character, find myself hating Kylo Ren for killing him?

[Quintus 5,399]

Kylo Ren has grown on me a bit. He was a decent villain.

I thought he was more than decent, I really enjoyed the character. I now like his design too, because initially (since his unveiling) I thought it was weak. But what I didn't expect was the humour a couple of his scenes had, that was a grin inducing bonus.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yes!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Quintus 5,399]

Fine line? When the benchmark for being "whiny" here is Hayden Christensen, Kylo Ren can rest assured he has A LOT of leeway to play with where his own levels of petulance are concerned. He can be a right little shit in the sequel and still be safe. He could turn up in Home Alone 5 and STILL be okay for the next Star Wars movie.

[Score 770]

Or that she is also Leia's daughter....

I would also bet that Rey is Han Solo and Leia's daughter. Maybe Kylo Ren was given earlier to Luke for training, turned to the dark side and then Rey was hidden on Jakku for her own protection. That would explain why her parents abandoned her.

And indeed... what was Han Solo doing so close to Jakku? Coincidence? The galaxy is large... Although it could be that he was just looking for the Millennium Falcon, but if he said something like that I might have missed it.

[crocodile 8,017]

Kylo Ren has grown on me a bit. He was a decent villain.

I thought he was more than decent, I really enjoyed the character. I now like his design too, because initially (since his unveiling) I thought it was weak. But what I didn't expect was the humour a couple of his scenes had, that was a grin inducing bonus.

Well, he is even more than just a villain. He can grow and change, and it won't be as awkward for him to turn sides (should that happen) as it happened with Vader (who lost some of his power). And you like him, despite him committing the single most horrific act. I kind of felt for him at that particular moment. He's what Anakin could have been in the prequels.

Karol

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[leeallen01 2,136]

Ren slowly coming back to the light side as Rey slowly falls into the dark side would be an interesting switcharoo.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Bilbo 3,709]

At the very end there's a flat upright stone sticking up out of the ground beside where Luke stands. Is it a grave?

[leeallen01 2,136]

At the very end there's a flat upright stone sticking up out of the ground beside where Luke stands. Is it a grave?

I didn't notice that but cool. Could be Rey's mother, who perhaps may be Luke's wife. Mmmmmm

[Bilbo 3,709]

At the very end there's a flat upright stone sticking up out of the ground beside where Luke stands. Is it a grave?

I didn't notice that but cool. Could be Rey's mother, who perhaps may be Luke's wife. Mmmmmm

That was my initial thought but that seems obvious. I dunno, if you see it again I think it's obviously placed.

[leeallen01 2,136]

By the way, did anyone actually predict Ren was Han and Leia's son?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I didn't

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

I didn't mind Snoke, but I'm a sucker for the mysterious Sith stuff.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Its not confirmed Snoke is Sith

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

True, but it's that ballpark.

[leeallen01 2,136]

Snoke was a joke in a cloak who spoke like a bloke on coke.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

That was pfunny!

[Jay 37,369]

By the way, did anyone actually predict Ren was Han and Leia's son?

We all did when we noticed how much she looks like Natalie Portman. Well, I guess we predicted that she'd be either Luke or Leia's kid, at the very least....

Just got back from the film, and it felt like a few scenes were filmed (by the way the actors acted) as if she was Han and Leia's Daughter / Ren/Ben's brother, but then they cut that out of the final cut, giving them options for Episode 8.

I dunno.

[KK 3,307]

So having just come back from this, I've got to say it was a real blast!

Was it perfect? No. Could I nitpick on it? I sure as hell can. But honestly, I really don't feel like it. It's been a while since I've gone to a major profile blockbuster feeling as satisfied as I did with this one.

Reflecting back on it, almost beat-for-beat the film follows A New Hope, and yet that's okay. Rey is a wonderful lead, played charismatically by Daisy. You sympathize with her and root for her throughout the picture. Finn is a great addition as well. Poe was fun, but isn't really around much. What I was more pleasantly surprised is by Han, who has quite an extensive presence in the picture. And Harrison Ford plays him with such charm and grace, it's hard not to be impressed.

The dark side doesn't seem to fare as well with the characters though. General Hux was good enough. But Captain Phasma was pretty useless, as was Snoke, who takes up the Emperor's place, but is quite a chore to sit through, and very uninspired in design. I have mixed feelings about Kylo Ren as he seems to be played as the tortured villain but is in no way relatable to the audience. Probably the weakest performance in the cast.

Plot-wise, it's very close to ANH. But for the most part, that never bothered me really, not until the third act I guess, where literally beat-for-beat it looked like I was watching the climax of the first Star Wars picture. Also, it surprises me that Rey catches on with the Force so quickly. I mean I know she's a quick learner and all, but skills like the "Force hypnotism" stuff seems like it requires quite a bit of fine-training before such specific application. Also, everyone seems pretty good at handling their lightsabers against a trained warrior, especially for having held it for the first time.

Oh and the final shot was probably the major sequence I wasn't too over-the-moon about. Mark Hamil's reveal is a bit over-the-top and that last circling shot just didn't sit well.

There are a good couple of minor quips like that all across the movie. But in the end, they don't really matter. J.J. nailed the spirit of the whole thing, and this is a great way to revitalize the franchise. They played it safe the first time around and they did it well. It was just what was needed to bring life again to Star Wars. My hope is that Rian Johnson takes the franchise in a more bold direction going forward. I don't think anyone can really come out of the cinema not feeling thoroughly entertained. I definitely had a smile on my face!

[Matt C 454]

Wasn't quite what I expected. In some ways, that was good. I loved Rey and Finn, the final battle in the snow-covered forest with Kylo Ren was beautiful and ferocious. BB8 is also quite wonderful, as is Maz Kanata (wonderful mo-cap performance by Lupita Nyong'o). Oscar Isaac wasn't in the film long enough to leave an impression, but he was good. Andy Serkis is another solid mo-cap performer... I don't see much of Gollum in Snoke, appearance-wise.

The numerous callbacks though kinda detracted. As previous people have said, the last third is basically remaking A New Hope. Domhall Gleeson is basically channeling Peter Cushing (with a large dose of Hitler), and Adam Driver's Kylo Ren is intimidating until the mask comes off. At least he can emote better than Hayden Christensen.

The plot twist involving Han's death at the hands of his son... for me, it didn't work emotionally. No sense of tragedy.

Williams's score was solid. Enjoyable but not the level of the OT.

[Jay 37,369]

I loved everything about the final sequence, with Rey walking up the steps, Luke taking his hood off with his metal hand..... but then it was VERY awkward that she just stood there holding out his lightsaber for so long.......... and then that final helicopter shot was TERRIBLE! Not BECAUSE it was a helicopter shot - it was a good idea to hold on a wide location shot of them before wiping to credits - but I don't get WHY in the world they would have bit be a CIRCLING camera shot! SO BAD!

[KK 3,307]

The plot twist involving Han's death at the hands of his son... for me, it didn't work emotionally. No sense of tragedy.

Yeah, I agree. The only reason it kind of worked was because Harrison Ford was really doing his best there and his loss is a loss for the audience. But you really don't know anything about the Kylo Ren character to appropriately sympathize with that supposed father-son relationship.

[Faleel 5,355]

I was surprised about similarities with certain things in the EU (Han's son turned to the Dark Side, The New Republic etc.).

[KK 3,307]

Adam Driver's Kylo Ren is intimidating until the mask comes off. At least he can emote better than Hayden Christensen.

He plays him rather strangely, doesn't he? I never really found him intimidating.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I can't wait to see the final helicopter shot.

[Faleel 5,355]

Adam Driver's Kylo Ren is intimidating until the mask comes off. At least he can emote better than Hayden Christensen.

He plays him rather strangely, doesn't he? I never really found him intimidating.

Could that be intended? Like he wants to be intimidating, but fails?

[Jay 37,369]

The thing about the whole subplot / back story that Ben Solo trained with Luke, got seduced by Snoke and the darkside, which sent Luke into hiding and put a strain on Han and Leia's relationship... it felt in this movie like we were seeing a resolution to a movie that was never filmed. And not in a good way.

[Faleel 5,355]

The thing about het whole subplot / back story that Ben Solo trained with Luke, got seduced by Snoke and the darkside, which sent Luke into hiding and put a strain on Han and Leia's relationship... it felt in this movie like we were seeing a resolution to a movie that was never filmed. And not in a good way.

Just like the Original Star Wars!

[Jay 37,369]

Sure, but that was handled in a good way that worked. For me, the way this "missing" story was handled was not.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I guess it's not important how Snoke became the Emperor between ROTJ and TFA? Who the fuck is that guy?

[Faleel 5,355]

Ben Solo

Where did they say that was his name?

[Jay 37,369]

I guess it's not important how Snoke became the Emperor between ROTJ and TFA? Who the fuck is that guy?

There's literally just no explanation whatsoever. It's bad writing! They should have just not shown him in this film and saved him for the next one.

Ben Solo

Where did they say that was his name?

Han calls him that when he goes to meet him on that random bridge thing.

[Faleel 5,355]

Sure, but that was handled in a good way that worked. For me, the way this "missing" story was handled was not.

How was it handled differently?

[KK 3,307]

Ben Solo

Where did they say that was his name?

Han shouts out to him as "Ben" in the confrontation.

[Faleel 5,355]

Oh, I thought he said "Ren!"

[KK 3,307]

The thing about the whole subplot / back story that Ben Solo trained with Luke, got seduced by Snoke and the darkside, which sent Luke into hiding and put a strain on Han and Leia's relationship... it felt in this movie like we were seeing a resolution to a movie that was never filmed. And not in a good way.

Yeah, their scenes were pretty awkward. Hammy lines of exposition got in the way of Ford's otherwise oozing charisma.

[Jay 37,369]

Sure, but that was handled in a good way that worked. For me, the way this "missing" story was handled was not.

How was it handled differently?

It Star Wars, hearing about the clone wars and how Luke's father was Ben's friend who was betrayed and murdered was interesting backstory for the story we were watching.

This this film, it felt like a really important, key storyline that we should know more about so Han's sacrifice carried more weight / any weight at all. Ren was COMPLETELY underwritten.

[Faleel 5,355]

I guess it's not important how Snoke became the Emperor between ROTJ and TFA? Who the !@#$%^&* is that guy?

There's literally just no explanation whatsoever. It's bad writing!

Yes, they should totally explain everything in the first movie...

[Jay 37,369]

Oh, I thought he said "Ren!"

I paid extra attention because I had seen it brought up here, and he definitely said Ben.

[Faleel 5,355]

Aww.. and here I thought they were saving his real name for the later films.

[Jay 37,369]

I guess it's not important how Snoke became the Emperor between ROTJ and TFA? Who the !@#$%^&* is that guy?

There's literally just no explanation whatsoever. It's bad writing!

Yes, they should totally explain everything in the first movie...

It's completely fine to save a detailed explanation for the next film, but this film should have had just one or two lines of dialogue that explained Snoke better, or not have had him be included at all. There was enough going on, the film didn't need him! No to mention he was realized with terrible CGI.