Jump to content
Skelly

Harry Potter - Unused Music Restored

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Disco Stu said:

Wow! I love the Diagon Alley original in context.  I don't hate the film edit, though.

 

EDIT: Why does the Diagon Alley cue sound so sped up in your restoration compared to the OST?

 

I haven't even listened yet but I assume he's using the film cue. The OST uses the version recorded for the children's suite, which is slower. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Williams liked the themes he wrote for the film so much that he wrote self-contained tracks for each (he called this the "Children's Suite"). The version he wrote for the actual film was very fast-paced, but the Children's Suite version - which you can hear on the OST - is a lot more leisurely.

 

What's kind of funny is that even though it was totally unused in this film, Will Ross still adapted the theme for when we visit Diagon Alley in the sequel. I guess people still could identify the theme since it was on the OST.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Skelly said:

It's been done very well by Fennel-Ka for Lord of the Rings and Star Wars, but I don't believe anyone's ever tried something like it for Harry Potter!

I thought it would be interesting to restore the unused music while also retaining dialogue/FX to give you an idea of how it all could have meshed together sound-wise, as opposed to just having music-only tracks. If people would prefer to have me not bother keeping the dialogue and sound effects in the mix, I'll do that in the future.

Here are a few examples from each of the films; I'll be updating the thread throughout the next few weeks with more.

 

PHILOSOPHER'S STONE

"You're A Wizard Harry"

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bx_2TC4QmNqkMUZXa0djeWFVYWs

The first 40 seconds or so of this cue are used in the film, before it segues to the (tracked) unused logo music, and then the rest of the scene goes unscored. The cue is dialed back in when Hagrid points his umbrella at Vernon. I have no idea why this decision was made; I think the rest of the music complements the scene very well!

 

Very cool!  I like how the Hogwarts / Gryffindor theme is introduced when Dumbledore is mentioned by Hagrid!

 

18 hours ago, Skelly said:

 

"Diagon Alley"

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bx_2TC4QmNqkNEhTdlZjMUY1eFU

This is perhaps the most infamous music edit in the film. When brainstorming what to write for this cue, instead of capturing Harry's awe and wonder of the place, Williams imagined what a small wizard's ensemble might sound like if one were performing in Diagon Alley. There are plenty more opportunities in the film to listen to Harry's reactions to the wizarding world, but not as many chances to listen to the world as experienced wizards hear it. Of course, with the decision to track music in from a couple cues in the final cut, that creative choice is essentially reversed.

 

I think they were kinda right to change the music for the initial reveal of the alley, as what Williams recorded is too on-the-nose and in-your-face.  I'm glad he slowed down the tempo for the concert version.  Of course, I wish JW had been able to record an insert to replace it with the feel Columbus wanted, rather than Columbus tracking in the later Great Hall music.  However, after the initial reveal shot, when Hagrid and Harry are walking down the alley examining various things, i think the original music works perfectly!

 

18 hours ago, Skelly said:

 

"Hagrid's Flashback"

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bx_2TC4QmNqkTUwwLUxLaENHUDg

The opening half of this cue was dialed out. It turns out that the unused portion is longer than the scene itself, so I edited the cue down myself in order to see how it might have been able to fit into this scene.

 

Nice introduction (?) of the family theme, but the scene is really not hurt by dialing it out at all.

 

18 hours ago, Skelly said:

 

"Troll in the Dungeon"

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bx_2TC4QmNqkZ0FYdE5pRFk1aEU

Unused in the film. I think it was decided that the confusion and panic would be heightened if Quirrell's message was delivered without accompanying music (because a lack of music is a lack of information).

 

Scene definitely works better with no score.

 

 

18 hours ago, Skelly said:

 

CHAMBER OF SECRETS

"Introducing Dobby"

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bx_2TC4QmNqkVi00bUpaM3pTbHc

This went fully unused in the film and honestly I think it was the right choice. Although it probably would have helped cement Dobby's theme into the film a little better, it just seems to be making light of Dobby's self-harm, thereby making it harder to pity him later in the film.

 

The music is nice, but completely wrong for the scene, and they were smart to not use it.

 

18 hours ago, Skelly said:

 

PRISONER OF AZKABAN

"The Dementor Appears"

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bx_2TC4QmNqkdGljeU9nSnNhcms

Williams originally wrote this ending to the cue, but in the final cut it was replaced with a sustained note from choir that anticipates the similar sound that underscores later appearances of the Patronus charm.

 

This version is certainly more interesting music, but the film version is better for the film.

 

Thanks for making these!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Diagon Alley was always a mystery to me. I of course knew the music very well but it was not used in the film at all. I don't mind it because I think the Great Hall theme is absolutely dazzling, one of Williams best for the franchise. It has this immense sense of scale and magic and wonder.

 

Infact how Williams did not include that theme on the OST is a wonder.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Skelly said:

Williams liked the themes he wrote for the film so much that he wrote self-contained tracks for each (he called this the "Children's Suite"). The version he wrote for the actual film was very fast-paced, but the Children's Suite version - which you can hear on the OST - is a lot more leisurely.

 

What's kind of funny is that even though it was totally unused in this film, Will Ross still adapted the theme for when we visit Diagon Alley in the sequel. I guess people still could identify the theme since it was on the OST.

 

I see now. So what you used is from the leaked sessions?

 

Despite owning and loving the OST for 15 years I don't actually know much about the history of this score. I should do some more research.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Disco Stu said:

I see now. So what you used is from the leaked sessions?

 

Despite owning and loving the OST for 15 years I don't actually know much about the history of this score. I should do some more research.

 

Yeah, I'm sourcing all this from the sessions.

For Diagon Alley, the bootleg has two versions of the full track, with the difference being the timing of the fiddle insert. I used the first one.

 

Good luck on researching the score. Williams has largely kept mum on it ever since 2001 so the only real resources are old newspaper articles from that year (some of them contradict each other, even!)

If you want I can PM you a list of links I have of various news items and interviews regarding the score (some are easier to find on the 'net than others). Or if anyone else is interested I can post the list in this thread.

 

4 hours ago, Jay said:

Nice introduction (?) of the family theme, but the scene is really not hurt by dialing it out at all.

 

It would have actually been the second use of the theme (I think), with the first being at the shack when Harry wishes himself a happy birthday.

4 hours ago, Jay said:

Very cool!  I like how the Hogwarts / Gryffindor theme is introduced when Dumbledore is mentioned by Hagrid!

 

It certainly would have done a lot for the motif if it had been placed there. It's used in the final film two, maybe three times at most! :P Somehow a lot of quotations of the Hogwarts theme got dialed out in the end.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Jay said:

 

Nice introduction (?) of the family theme, but the scene is really not hurt by dialing it out at all.

 

 

 

The family theme is introduced right before Hagrid's arrival to the hut, when Harry turns 11.

And is heard again at the very end of the sequence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, alextrombone94 said:

Need a clean version of "Sirius Black Escape" without Hermione's screams and the explosion 

 

Don't we all!
I believe the end credits of the film features the portion of the cue when all three are flying away, but the parts we'd all like to hear have never been released.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great work Skelly. It's great to see how these bits of unused music line up with the films. :)

 

Williams did some really curious editing decisions when compiling the original album for the Philosopher's Stone as he managed to sneak parts of the Children's Suite in for what he must have thought would make a more rounded listening experience. Five movements of the suite are represented on the OST in some form, Hedwig's Flight functions as the Prologue, Hogwarts Forever and The Moving Stairs contains the brass ensemble performing Hogwarts theme, Diagon Alley edits in portion of the concert movement of the same name and Fluffy's Harp is the entire Fluffy and His Harp movement from the suite for contrabassoons and harp whereas the film version features only the harp. And of course Harry's Wondrous World which rounds out the suite functions also as part of the End Credits for the film.

 

Oh and I think the Diagon Alley opening could have worked. I don't think it is that much distracting than the Great Hall cue, which also fits the scene surprisingly well with its festive and opulent feel.

 

23 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

 

I see now. So what you used is from the leaked sessions?

 

Despite owning and loving the OST for 15 years I don't actually know much about the history of this score. I should do some more research.

I'll admit this is shameless self-plug but you could start HERE. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll vouch for your analysis, Incanus!

Anyone, like Stu, who wants to take a look at how Williams designed the score will be off to a great start by reading that.

 

I myself slowly working on something similar for Prisoner of Azkaban.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Skelly said:

I'll vouch for your analysis, Incanus!

Anyone, like Stu, who wants to take a look at how Williams designed the score will be off to a great start by reading that.

 

I myself slowly working on something similar for Prisoner of Azkaban.

Looking forward to reading it! :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Incanus said:

 

 

I'll admit this is shameless self-plug but you could start HERE. ;)

 

Don't mind if I do!  Listening to the complete score along with the OST while following along with a really meaty score analysis is like treating yourself to a rich four course meal.  Can't wait to dig in :)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/9/2016 at 4:01 PM, Skelly said:

I thought it would be interesting to restore the unused music while also retaining dialogue/FX to give you an idea of how it all could have meshed together sound-wise, as opposed to just having music-only tracks. If people would prefer to have me not bother keeping the dialogue and sound effects in the mix, I'll do that in the future.

 

Well, I'm sure it's more work, but I do like having the dialogue and SFX. Gives you a real sense of how the scene would have been. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you Skelly, this is amazing work! Makes the movies new again. Diagon Alley is my favorite so far. Williams plays child-like wonder and the rush of sights using music that brings you closer to the Wizard's world. A kid size group playing specific music. The tracked music is less connected and lets down the actors, who now look a bit forced. Always was puzzled why that scene didn't completely work and now I see why. The director/studio played it safe. Still is good enough, though.
I also like having the dialogue and SFX in the alternate versions :)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I made a post last year in the Potterdom thread with videos for all 4 composers but I should probably have made a full thread like this and with all the scenes separated haha. It got totally buried and bollemanneke was the only one who bothered to look at them at all I think.

 

Nice job with these, I think we're generally in agreement! Hope my attempts can help you out a bit sorting through syncs for the rest, or comparing with the ones you've done :) Or I can separate some of the clips out to add to the thread if you'd like too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

Man, I want the full complete score for Azkaban so badly.

 

Yes! The Egyptian music that mixes perfectly with the ominous "danger" motif when Mr. Weasley talks... the "Double Trouble" arrangement for when we meet Buckbeak... the Inca flute for Trelawney's prediction... and of course the exceptional cue for when Sirius is rescued. There's too much to list!

 

It's in dire need of an "expanded edition" treatment, seeing as the OST is a bit of a mangled mess... the rationale behind "Mischief Managed" is a modern mystery that'll probably never be solved. I wonder if Williams was a bit put off by having to rewrite a chunk of the score during sessions and wasn't inclined to put tremendous effort into the soundtrack (and figured ten minutes of reprisals would be an easy way to take care of it).

 

@mrbellamy - It's spooky how closely our stuff is aligned! I guess great minds think alike! ;) Thanks for sharing that with me.

I particularly like "Magic in a Muggle House" for HBP as Hooper originally wrote it. Now I know what those last few chirps from the woodwinds were mickey-mousing to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Skelly said:

 

Yes! The Egyptian music that mixes perfectly with the ominous "danger" motif when Mr. Weasley talks... the "Double Trouble" arrangement for when we meet Buckbeak... the Inca flute for Trelawney's prediction... and of course the exceptional cue for when Sirius is rescued. There's too much to list!

 

It's in dire need of an "expanded edition" treatment, seeing as the OST is a bit of a mangled mess... the rationale behind "Mischief Managed" is a modern mystery that'll probably never be solved. I wonder if Williams was a bit put off by having to rewrite a chunk of the score during sessions and wasn't inclined to put tremendous effort into the soundtrack (and figured ten minutes of reprisals would be an easy way to take care of it).

 

@mrbellamy - It's spooky how closely our stuff is aligned! I guess great minds think alike! ;) Thanks for sharing that with me.

I particularly like "Magic in a Muggle House" for HBP as Hooper originally wrote it. Now I know what those last few chirps from the woodwinds were mickey-mousing to.

 

could you enlighten further about the re-writing of a 'chunk of the score' during the sessions for azkaban? always so frustrated at the lack of information and mystery surrounding the writing/sessions for all the potter scores... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

According to one of the film's sound designers and re-recording mixers, Williams got to the podium on day 1 of sessions and realized something was very wrong, and figured out pretty quickly that he had been given an outdated cut of the film to score to. Oops!

 

You can see some evidence of this through the unusual slates on some cues (letters instead of numbers, as if Williams was uncertain as to what numbers would be correct to use), and the titling of one cue as "Sir Cadagon", who had a minor role initially that was cut down to a non-existent one in the end.

 

You can read about it in a little more detail here. It's indeed very bothersome that Williams has never talked very much about Potter. I guess there's not much about it to say though.

 

I was excited at first to check out the Harry Potter music documentary from 2010, but it wasn't very enlightening or insightful at all. There was some fun archive footage of Williams conducting for the first film though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Skelly said:

According to one of the film's sound designers and re-recording mixers, Williams got to the podium on day 1 of sessions and realized something was very wrong, and figured out pretty quickly that he had been given an outdated cut of the film to score to. Oops!

 

You can see some evidence of this through the unusual slates on some cues (letters instead of numbers, as if Williams was uncertain as to what numbers would be correct to use), and the titling of one cue as "Sir Cadagon", who had a minor role initially that was cut down to a non-existent one in the end.

 

You can read about it in a little more detail here. It's indeed very bothersome that Williams has never talked very much about Potter. I guess there's not much about it to say though.

 

I was excited at first to check out the Harry Potter music documentary from 2010, but it wasn't very enlightening or insightful at all. There was some fun archive footage of Williams conducting for the first film though.

 

Wow thanks for the info! That's crazy about Williams being given the wrong cut... Thank goodness for the filmmaking team that he's so capable as to re-write music of such complexity at such short notice- and still make it work so well! This does make it a little clearer as to why he was maybe not so keen to return to Potter, though of course that's a whole other story with many different factors involved! Would imagine he could have felt as though his talents/general effort that he obviously puts into his scores wasn't really appreciated by the potter team. 

 

It really is such a shame we never got to hear anymore Williams music for the rest of the franchise... Was just listening to the first score the other day and was reminded again at how annoying it is that the themes for Voldemort weren't continued throughout the series! Such awesome themes (both the three note motif and the two direct A/B themes for the character) so memorable too, think most general movie goers would have recognised them if they had been used appropriately! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The reason Williams gave for not returning for Goblet of Fire was that he already had a full schedule between War of the Worlds and Revenge of the Sith. But since his friend Chris Columbus was departing from the franchise, and he had had less-than-great experiences with CoS and PoA, he probably wasn't too bummed out.

Even if Williams had returned for GoF and beyond, I don't know if the three-note loop, et al., would have returned with him. Almost all established Potter sound was cast away for PoA and there probably wouldn't have been a reason for him to bring those back again unless the director really wanted him to.

And I agree, the first score and its themes kick ass!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had no idea about this POA story, but it seems kinda confusing. Considering these type of scores take about a couple of weeks to record and the orchestra already being booked, how could Williams re-do the whole thing on the podium? I mean, I know he's a pro and all, but as I said, it seems awfully confusing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He didn't redo the whole thing, it just seems like he had to re-tool bits he'd already written, which is still time-consuming.

What I'm scratching my head about is the comment about harp glissandos. Williams wrote an opening to the Quidditch sequence that used a harpischord, which was replaced in the final film by... a harp glissando. Huh? And there were plenty of other glissandos in the film. So I don't know what to make of that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Skelly said:

The reason Williams gave for not returning for Goblet of Fire was that he already had a full schedule between War of the Worlds and Revenge of the Sith.

 

Actually, it was Memoirs of a Geisha the movie that prevented him from returning to HP. Both Goblet and Geisha were composed around summer 2005 (by that time, Sith and WOTW were already released).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, oierem said:

Actually, it was Memoirs of a Geisha the movie that prevented him from returning to HP. Both Goblet and Geisha were composed around summer 2005 (by that time, Sith and WOTW were already released).

 

In this interview he cites only RotS and WotW, but it probably was really a combination of all three that led to the lack of time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/12/2016 at 6:03 PM, Skelly said:

@mrbellamy - It's spooky how closely our stuff is aligned! I guess great minds think alike! ;) Thanks for sharing that with me.

I particularly like "Magic in a Muggle House" for HBP as Hooper originally wrote it. Now I know what those last few chirps from the woodwinds were mickey-mousing to.

 

Haha yeah, I enjoyed that too.

 

Btw that forum post about Richard Beggs mentions Azkaban was performed by the LSO....is that true? I seem to remember hearing somewhere on here (@TownerFan?) that POA was a session orchestra. Maybe with LSO players?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What makes me skeptical is that the LSO is credited in the liner notes for CSO, GOF, and DH. So I don't see why it wouldn't have been for POA. Just because the concertmistress performed doesn't necessarily mean the entire orchestra did, right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, mrbellamy said:

 

Haha yeah, I enjoyed that too.

 

Btw that forum post about Richard Beggs mentions Azkaban was performed by the LSO....is that true? I seem to remember hearing somewhere on here (@TownerFan?) that POA was a session orchestra. Maybe with LSO players?

LSO is not credited on POA so it is more likely that some of the LSO musicians played on the sessions, as they often do for various London based ensembles, but the actual LSO wasn't engaged so they can't use the name.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Added "Dumbledore's Caution" and "Time Transition" to the main post (Philosopher's Stone).

I was going to restore the unused music from 6M2A 'The Library Scene' back into the film, only I discovered there really isn't much unused material at all! The tracked music from the Chess Board scene was there because for some reason 6M2A was way too short, and they needed extra music to fill that gap.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is such a shitty way to treat Williams that he was given the wrong cut to score. What the fuck? 

 

If I were a director and Williams agreed to score my film,  i would basically give him unlimited artistic liscence to write what he wants and I would re-cut the entire film to his score. That is of course after I have drowned myself in champagne and shouted from rooftops and danced in the streets. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I listened to an interview with Mike Newell where he dismissed JW's music as childrish (you can probably find the interview on here somewhere). Apparently they even spoke to each other.

It's strange how JW was never able to conduct the LSO for one of his Potter scores.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For clarification: for PS he used a "crackerjack ad hoc orchestra" (as one news article put it); CoS used the LSO (conducted by Ross, as Williams was swamped with other work); and I thought that PoA used the LSO as well until you guys explained how that might not be the case. Indeed, this document lists that the LSO worked for Potters 2 and 4 but not 3.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A lot of the freelance players that record for film and TV soundtracks in the London scene are usually gathered from the pool of all major London orchestras, including the LSO. So both SS and POA had quite a few players from the LSO (including the legendary Maurice Murphy).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎13‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 1:50 AM, Skelly said:

According to one of the film's sound designers and re-recording mixers, Williams got to the podium on day 1 of sessions and realized something was very wrong, and figured out pretty quickly that he had been given an outdated cut of the film to score to. Oops!

 

You can see some evidence of this through the unusual slates on some cues (letters instead of numbers, as if Williams was uncertain as to what numbers would be correct to use), and the titling of one cue as "Sir Cadagon", who had a minor role initially that was cut down to a non-existent one in the end.

 

You can read about it in a little more detail here. It's indeed very bothersome that Williams has never talked very much about Potter. I guess there's not much about it to say though.

 

Very interesting. I knew he rewrote quite a few cues for POA, but the general thought was that they were redos asked by Cuaròn. I guess it was TPM Reel 6 all over again for JW :)

 

It's interesting to note some of the points made by the sound editor you qlinked, especially the fact that nowadays sound mixers prefer to have separate music stems (even without any kind of reverb added), with all the sections separated, so that they can work around the music with much more freedom and treat it like part of the overall sound fabric. This speaks volume about how technology changed a lot of the overall scoring process and how this informs the way scores are actually written and produced. In this sense, I see that Williams and his old school methods probably look like a relic from the past to modern filmmakers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's astonishing to me to think that some - maybe even most - composers intend for their work to all be recorded separately: first the violins take their turn, then the next day it's horns, then it's woodwinds the next, etc. I guess reliance on the click track is pretty heavy these days.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...