Yoda. CGI or Muppet.

[Hector J. Guzman 1]

I wanted to know your opinion on this. I mean, I love the way Yoda looks in ESB and ROTJ, I wanted to know why Lucas didn´t use the same puppet from ESB in TPM, I mean he would look almost the same as in ESB, after all he is 900 years old. Did Lucas retired the puppet that was used? Or is it in a museum? But still they could have made a puppet that looked like Yoda, that looks like Yoda on steroids in TPM.

*possible spoilers ahead*

Anakin will become

All kidding aside...

In AOTC Yoda looks better than in TPM, but my problem is the texture in Yoda´s skin... in the final battle scenes when he is talking to a Storm Trooper or whatever (these guys: )they´re called in this one, it looks like a cartoon!

I wish they would have used a mix of puppet and CGI... when creating the CGI creature, they made it as if it were the puppet, look at him when he´s speaking, it´s looks like a puppet, so why don´t use the freakin´ puppet!!!

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Sorry about that :lookaround:

Well, here you have the Yodas for the voting

Yoda in Empire and Jedi

Yoda in Phantom

Yoda in Clones

[CruciformSword 2]

I like the original Yoda the best. I didn't really like Yoda in TPM where he had the mustache, and looked differently a little bit. Maybe because I got used to the original Yoda, I didn't like the change of the newer Yoda of TPM.

-Jason, who doesn't have anything against mustaches

[Harry Potter 0]

My vote went for the classic Yoda. That's the one I knew first, so that's the one I've grown accustomed to and love. The CG Yoda in Ep2 looked too fake to me, and I was wanting the REAL Yoda to come back throughout the whole movie. Why couldn't he be a puppet in all the scenes but the last battle scene? He had to be CG so we could see him walk? What's so big about that? We saw the Yoda puppet walk in Ep5 on his way to his hut, and he looks fine to me. Oh well, I guess this is another thing Lucas is wierd about, just like the music.

~Harry

[RomanticStrings 10]

My choice was the AOTC CGI Yoda. I really haven't seen the old movies as a fan of Star Wars. I saw them before the fact, and I am pretty young, so I don't remember them well. Also, All of the Yodas are fake, so I picked the one that was most realistic. We have no clue what an alien really would look like, so, if Yoda was real, maybe he would look like the AOTC Yoda. Anyways, this Yoda could do the most. Yoda is no longer a stationary, or half screen figure. In AOTC he is a full actor, with walking, talking, and fighting scenes. That is why I like him. He is most real in AOTC.

~Conor, who isn't a critic in the least bit.

[Marian Schedenig 8,231]

Well, I for one was really exciting my seeing Yoda walk - and believing it. Sure, he walks in ROTJ, but there he walks like a Muppet. So, his skin looks a bit fake - in the old trilogy, his movements looked fake. I like Muppets, but I'm perfectly happy with the CGI Yoda as well.

(BTW, why didn't you include the CGI Yoda from TPM? I liked how they made him move like a Muppet - I never would have guessed that he was CGI)

Marian - who thinks CGI as such gets criticized far too much.

[RomanticStrings 10]

I agree, Marian. CGI is basically like a puppet, except that it can do more. As Lucas said, puppets have problems that CGI don't have and vice-versa. I like CGI, especially in Jurassic Park (which had CGI and puppets working together, which is genius).

~Conor

[EvanED 1]

>>Did Lucas retired the puppet that was used? Or is it in a museum?

It was for a short time in the Air and Space museum in Washington, DC as part of "The Magic of Myth" exhibit. I have a picture. I took. With my camera. (It's just about my favorite picture I've taken ever... but my damn finger is in the shot...)

But the original is almost certainly too deteriorated for real use. "When 20 years old your puppet reach, bend without cracking it will not, hmmmm?"

>>but my problem is the texture in Yoda´s skin

Or any CG chatracter. The big challenge is preventing CG images from looking like plastic.

For my preference, it depends on if Yoda is talking. As I've said a couple times, the puppet Yodas throw me out of the movie and into the movie theater (or TV room as the case may be) every time they talk 'cause you can't lip synch a puppet. The shinyness of the CG Yoda threw me out a couple times, but much, much, less frequently. So talking, CG Yoda wins hands down, not talking, Puppet Yoda comes out ahead. Overall, CG Yoda wins.

>>So, his skin looks a bit fake - in the old trilogy, his movements looked fake.

Well said.

[King Mark 3,631]

The puppet Yoda was good for an 80's movie,and Frank Oz did a great job,but I remember it took a few viewings of ESB before Yoda became more natural.The first time I thought he did look like a puppet,especially when he meets Luke and does semi -funny antics.

The puppet Yoda in TPM looked TERRIBLE.

In AotC,he has his ESB and ROTJ look back,which is good,can walk and do lots of stuff,which is very good,and has more facial expressions(like E.T. cgi in the 20th annversary version),which is also very good.

As for his skin texture in AOTC,only in a FEW scenes he doesn't look too realistic and plasticky(like when he's giving orders to the clone troopers on the ship),the rest is very fine thank you.

SOOOO..hands down to CGI Yoda.

K.M.

[King Mark 3,631]

>>Did Lucas retired the puppet that was used? Or is it in a museum?  

It was for a short time in the Air and Space museum in Washington, DC as part of "The Magic of Myth" exhibit. I have a picture. I took. With my camera. (It's just about my favorite picture I've taken ever... but my damn finger is in the shot...)

i saw that museum display.AMAZING those 5 foot Star Destroyers are when you see them up close,aren't they...

i had pics of me taken beside almost all space ships and Characters on Display...

k.m.wondering why the Death Star 2 model wasn't on display(no it wasn't a matt painting like ANH)

[Luke Skywalker 1,799]

CGI all the way, but i still think Yoda puppets are the best puppets ever.

[David Vincent 8]

Definetly Yoda's puppet !

CGI Yoda fighting with a lightsaber is ridiculous.

David, who loves Star Wars trilogy, but has been disappointed by Episode II.

[Morn 8]

I say Ep1. In the old trilogy, he looks very much like a puppet. In AOTC he looks like great CGI but CGI. In Ep1 is looks much more realistic.

[Marian Schedenig 8,231]

especially when he meets Luke and does semi -funny antics.

You know, having seen him in two thirds of the prequel trilogy, I can't help but think that he has gone a bit senile over the years when watching that sequence.

Marian - who also liked the TPM Yoda.

[Justin 2]

Hard to say. But here is what I came up with...

Empire/Jedi Puppet Yoda

Clones CGI Yoda

Phantom Puppet Yoda

Justin -Who didn't like the Yoda in Phantom at all. :?

[Dole 17]

As I recall, both the Jabba the Hutt and Yoda muppets were made from some material that deteriorates over time and have long since melted. I remember Lucas saying somewhere that only Jabba's eyes still exist. The Yoda muppet in the museums as far as I know is not the actual muppet but a recreation or a model used to build the muppet. Also, the scene in ESB when Yoda walks back to his hut was performed by a midget in a Yoda costume and shot from far away. The muppet is incapable of walking like that. That's why a CGI shot had to be used in that scene at the end of TPM. I thought CGI Yoda from AOTC looked much better than the Yoda from TPM and since Frank Oz is happy having Yoda go digital, I hope they stick with CGI for Episode III.

Dole

[Luke Skywalker 1,799]

especially when he meets Luke and does semi -funny antics.

You know, having seen him in two thirds of the prequel trilogy, I can't help but think that he has gone a bit senile over the years when watching that sequence.

Marian - who also liked the TPM Yoda.

He is testing Luke's patience, didn't you noticed THAT?

[Hector J. Guzman 1]

You should know Luke :wink2:

Hector - who´s testing the patience of some people

[Marian Schedenig 8,231]

Jabba was a Muppet??

He is testing Luke's patience, didn't you noticed THAT?

And he's clearly enjoying it...

Marian - who likes The Muppets.

[Hector J. Guzman 1]

I love the muppets... I miss the song from the late 70s, early 80s show... I´ll see if I can find it in one of them music download web sites

[Marian Schedenig 8,231]

You can. The theme song and many many more Muppet songs.

Marian - who has lots of Muppet MP3s somewhere.

[Hector J. Guzman 1]

I must have them! What does a brother have to do to get´em?

Hector - practicing his ebonics

[Romão 2,274]

I love the classic trilogy yoda, but I was very impressed with the CGI yoda, ist just so expressive. So my vote goes to the CGI yoda.

[Guest]

I love the classic trilogy yoda, but I was very impressed with the CGI yoda, ist just so expressive. So my vote goes to the CGI yoda.

I have to agree. I love Yoda and I always have. The muppet was done very well. I was VERY wary when I heard Yoda was going to be all CGI. It was what I was most worried about when I saw AOTC. I found myself drawn into Yoda's character so much more than ever before in Episode II. He was so much more expressive and mobile that I totally bought the character for the first time without thinking about him being a puppet.

[EvanED 1]

I was worried about a CG Yoda too, but I forgot all about it until the first of the three or so shots where you can tell he's CG...

[Hector J. Guzman 1]

Exactly. Me too.

[quaver 0]

I hated Yoda in AOTC. He's way too computerised. He's just not the same like that!

[Miguel Andrade 1,266]

Yoda's CGI sucks! I mean, to me it's not convincing. In fact I didn't liked the special effects and CGI in AotC.

My favorite one is the origianl Yoda from Empire. It's a puppet, but seems real.

[Marian Schedenig 8,231]

It's a puppet, but seems real.

Looks and moves like a real Muppet. The AOTC Yoda looks and moves like a slightly artifical person.

Marian - who thinks "classic" sfx techniques have enough distadvantages, too.

[scissorhands 16]

Yoda's CGI sucks! I mean, to me it's not convincing. In fact I didn't liked the special effects and CGI in AotC.

My favorite one is the origianl Yoda from Empire. It's a puppet, but seems real.

It SEEMED real. Now, after having watched AOTC 3 times, when I see the first trilogy (the second one chronologicaly), I can only think on one thing: "Yoda is a puppet, definitely, he is a puppet."

[Dr. Jones 0]

The TESB and ROTJ Yoda was the best. But not only the Puppet also his german voice. I also like the CGI Yoda but the Muppet had humen nature the CGI Model is only Technology.

But Jar Jar is the greatest!!! :roll:

Dr. Jones - who is ashamed that he said this :oops:

[Figo 2]

Yoda puppet, Empire and Jedi. His little flying go-cart in AOTC was priceless, with Ewen staring off into the middle distance as if trying to imagine Roger Rabbit. The duel at the end was more ridiculous than rousing -- like a scene out of Chucky -- and, what's worse, it didn't go anywhere. Kind of like the entire movie, actually. Then this happened, then this happened, then this happened... Just end the damn thing already!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yoda puppet, Kind of like the entire movie, actually.  Then this happened, then this happened, then this happened...  Just end the damn thing already!

I definatly agree with that opinion about the film, just a bunch of loose scenes, some good, others bad, but not very connected to one and another.

Stefancos- who thinks the old Yoda puppet from TESB and ROTJ looks perfectly real.

[Figo 2]

We agree?!!!! :wow:

Figo, expecting a snowstorm in August.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The fact that you agree with me is a sign of your intelligence.

Keep it up, you are getting there...

Stefancos- who thinks Figo can be saved.

[Figo 2]

That's a good one.

Figo, unrepentant.

[Morn 8]

Yoda puppet, Empire and Jedi.  His little flying go-cart in AOTC was priceless, with Ewen staring off into the middle distance as if trying to imagine Roger Rabbit.  The duel at the end was more ridiculous than rousing -- like a scene out of Chucky -- and, what's worse, it didn't go anywhere.  Kind of like the entire movie, actually.  Then this happened, then this happened, then this happened...  Just end the damn thing already!

I agree. Except, I think the TPM Yoda looks the best. That dulled colour that he has in Empire and Jedi makes him look fake. And the CGI of AOTC is great but a little fake like.

[Figo 2]

New poll:

Morn -- CGI or puppet?

Figo, already making an appointment with the Jim Henson people.

[Mari 279]

New poll:

Morn -- CGI or puppet?

Figo, already making an appointment with the Jim Henson people.

Mari, who voted for muppet Yoda of Empire and Jedi

[Romão 2,274]

One has to bear in mind the role of yoda in each film. In AOTC he is everywhere, he had to be CGI. In empire is a diferent matter. Although it lmay seem incoherent the diferent version fo the overall saga, I still think Yoda had to be done both ways, depending his role. In Empire he could be a puppet, but not on AOTC. Anyway, I love Yoda, every version of him.

[Rogue_Leader 2]

Puppter Yoda. The CGI Yoda looked RIDICULOUSLY fake. He looked so CG it was laughable. Anytime I saw him I was like (you know they could have just used to puppet and saved themselves a million dollars on this scene. OH yeah and don't even get me started on that horribly animated final lightsaber battle. I never laughed so hard in my life. I wasn't the only one either. Sheeesh could that have looked ANY worse? I should think it impossible.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

OH yeah and don't even get me started on that horribly animated final lightsaber battle. I never laughed so hard in my life.  

They were probably laughing because they loved it.

Stefancos- who does.

[King Mark 3,631]

Well,I always thought the muppet in ESB looked fake,but I still tried to believe,and it worked to a degree,a bit like when you first see E.T.,you just get used to him

In ROTJ,he sort of looked a bit deteriorated already.The lighting in his scenes was weird too.

In TPM,he just sat there and looked more realistic than in ESB,but looked damn ugly also.

In AOTC,he looks fake in only a few scenes when brightly lit or sometimes when he was walking,especially when you first see him.At least he got his old face back.

In Ep3,CGI will have evolved even further,and I expect him to look totally realisic,and maybe they will be able to improve Porman's acting and range of expression digitally.

K.M.

[King Mark 3,631]

Well,I always thought the muppet in ESB looked fake,but I still tried to believe,and it worked to a degree,a bit like when you first see E.T.,you just get used to him

In ROTJ,he sort of looked a bit deteriorated already.The lighting in his scenes was weird too.

In TPM,he just sat there and looked more realistic than in ESB,but looked damn ugly also.

In AOTC,he looks fake in only a few scenes when brightly lit or sometimes when he was walking,especially when you first see him.At least he got his old face back.

In Ep3,CGI will have evolved even further,and I expect him to look totally realisic,and maybe they will be able to improve Portman's acting and range of expression digitally.

K.M.

[Rogue_Leader 2]

I am sorry but you see this is the problem with CG. It has made filmakers lazy. No longer do they have to be creative. They can just throw 200 pounds of CG up on the screen and throw and sense of a good story aside.

CG should be used when it is NEEDED. Not whenever possible.

[King Mark 3,631]

I don't think it made film makers lazy.It depends how CGI is used,it can be artful like the Coruscant city landscape or crappy like in The Mummy Returns.

And it still takes 3 years to make a SW film,just like when they used optical effects.

K.M.

[Hector J. Guzman 1]

CG should be used when it is NEEDED. Not whenever possible.

I agree. Lately they want to fill every scene with a CGI just for the sake of it, it seems.

:spiny: Gershwin Three Preludes for Piano

Andre Watts, piano

[scissorhands 16]

True.

But it was needed all over the movie, in every shot. :spiny:

[Guest]

I don't see why ILM doesn't do a blend of old and new and go with animatronics. I mean, Rick Baker did some amazing stuff on the first Men in Black. Remember the Tarquillian prince? I'm pretty sure that was all real and not CGI. Not only that, but Teddy in A.I. was a good animatronic too. Granted, in the walking scenes, it seemed like he had a little "help" from his more technologically-advanced relatives, but all in all, it still was a heck of a lot better than Yoda's been since the classic trilogy.

The hand puppet in the classics did look a little fake, but it still looked real, even if its lips didn't move that well with the dialogue. In the "I'm not afraid!" scene...you can hear and see Yoda saying, "You will be...you will be...!" It's so convincingly real. I still catch myself saying, "That's a puppet?!" I don't get the same kick out of "Seeing you unharmed brings great warmness to my heart". I say, "That's supposed to be Yoda?" everytime I watch TPM. I was looking at Hector's pics of all three Yodas and the TPM doesn't even look related to the other two. Same species maybe, like Yaddle, but not same little-green-dude. If you turned back a normal clock 10 years on the AotC Yoda, I still don't think you'd get the TPM Yoda. I think you'd get the same TESB/ROTJ, just without the "wrinkle-grid" on his forehead and with a little more "baby-fat".

Animatronics are still the way to go. You can get lip movements and everything.

(BTW, don't you guys think it's weird how CG-cartoons like Futurama and the Simpsons have characters you can lip-read, but the ILM CG stuff that's supposed to be "real" can't be lip-read?)

[MrScratch 294]

There is no option for me... I think ESB Yoda is the best and ROTJ yoda is the worst. Same puppet, same puppeteer... but somehow Oz just seemed to be on autopilot in ROTJ. I'm guessing that scene was probably filmed in a single day.

By the way, is anyone else baffled as to why Yoda claims that "a Jedi's strength flows from the Force" in the middle of his conversation with Luke? It has nothing to do with their conversation. Perhaps Yoda was getting Alzheimers in his final days...

[Guest]

I think everyone was on autopilot in RotJ except for Ian McDiarmid, because he was the new guy. I blame Marquand for that.