New Podcast Series: The Complete John Williams Television Music Walkthrough

[Thor 7,517]

Great comments again, Mr. Josh! Thank you.

 

Williams provided original scores for ALL episodes of ALCOA, the first and only time in his career that he's composed all of the music for a TV show. However, at least one episode ("George Gobel Presents") was taken from other sources, and inserted into the run, and JW had nothing to do with that. Depending on what source you use for the series overview, there might be one or two other such 'imported' episodes as well.

 

By the way, I'm currently working on the 'redux' versions of these episodes, and hope to be able to present them before I take my summer holiday in July. Quite a few new gems, I must say, that in total would amount to a whole new episode, but that are inserted into the existing ones.

[Junion 107]

Thor, I still need to listen to the second episode of your amazing podcast. But I am quite sure that "George Gobel Presents" is an episode of Alcoa Premiere. I have read somewhere that this variety show was explicitly produced as a spin-off on Alcoa in December, 1962.

 

Since this show aired as an Alcoa Premiere episode one month later on Jan 31, 1963, I cannot imagine that it was taken from other sources. Therefore, I believe that John Williams was involved during the production.

[Thor 7,517]

3 hours ago, Junion said:

Thor, I still need to listen to the second episode of your amazing podcast. But I am quite sure that "George Gobel Presents" is an episode of Alcoa Premiere. I have read somewhere that this variety show was explicitly produced as a spin-off on Alcoa in December, 1962.

 

Since this show aired as an Alcoa Premiere episode one month later on Jan 31, 1963, I cannot imagine that it was taken from other sources. Therefore, I believe that John Williams was involved during the production.

 

Well, I haven't seen it myself, so I haven't been able to double-check the end credits for 100% verification, but several sources suggest it's not part of the 28x28 run of ORIGINAL Alcoa episodes that JW scored. See this thread for more information.

[MrJosh 892]

Thanks so much @Thor for clarifying for me on Alcoa Premiere. I hope you don't mind if I have more questions as I think about all this stuff!

 

With all the great info on your walkthrough,  it seems that the Main Page>Complete Works>TV Works could use some cleanup. I see some things which look incorrect and shouldn't be there at all (like The Cowboys TV series), and of course many of the entries are missing what we know about which seasons, number of episodes, etc. 

 

I see a few things there which are not in your walkthrough and I assume the page is wrong about these. Any ideas on them? 

 

Big G 1962 (no idea what this is)

Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea (1964-1968) (this is definitely wrong, right? I believe you mentioned the series in one of your episodes and that Williams wasn't involved. Also the LLL set of course contains no Williams). 

The Kraft Summer Music Hall (1965) (is this perhaps an alternate name for one of the other Kraft series' Williams worked on, or is this just wrong and he wasn't involved with this particular Kraft entry?)

 

Lastly, do you think the Michael Dukakis coverage should count as a TV work, or perhaps not?  

[Thor 7,517]

2 hours ago, MrJosh said:

Big G 1962 (no idea what this is)

 

This has been on various JW filmographies since the 90s (I remember seeing it on Scott Hanson's site, for example). That, and "Flashing Spikes". Of course, we now know "Flashing Spikes" was a John Ford-directed ALCOA episode, but "Big G" remains a big mystery still. Personally, I would remove it from filmographies until we know more about what it is.

 

2 hours ago, MrJosh said:

Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea (1964-1968) (this is definitely wrong, right? I believe you mentioned the series in one of your episodes and that Williams wasn't involved. Also the LLL set of course contains no Williams). 

 

Right. Williams was not involved with that show.

 

2 hours ago, MrJosh said:

The Kraft Summer Music Hall (1965) (is this perhaps an alternate name for one of the other Kraft series' Williams worked on, or is this just wrong and he wasn't involved with this particular Kraft entry?)

 

This was a summer replacement show of the variety kind that didn't require much original score to begin with. As far as we know, Williams was not involved with this at all. Although sponsored by Kraft, it wasn't connected to Kraft Mystery or Suspense Theatre. Kraft Foods was sponsoring all over the place at the time, so quite confusing, I know.

 

2 hours ago, MrJosh said:

 

Lastly, do you think the Michael Dukakis coverage should count as a TV work, or perhaps not?  

 

This is what I would label "event music", not TV music. Unlike, say, "The Olympic Spirit", which was composed specifically for NBC's coverage of the Olympics in Seoul, this was not composed specifically for the coverage, but for the Democratic convention in Atlanta itself (although it happened to be televised as well).

[Junion 107]

On 09/06/2023 at 4:03 PM, Thor said:

 

Well, I haven't seen it myself, so I haven't been able to double-check the end credits for 100% verification, but several sources suggest it's not part of the 28x28 run of ORIGINAL Alcoa episodes that JW scored. See this thread for more information.

Many thanks. Actually, some statements in this thread even support my assumption that John Williams was involved. I haven’t seen this episode either but @filmmusicdid. And according to his description and screenshot of the end credits Johnny Williams provided the music score. 
 

By the way, here is another hint that “George Gobel Presents” was part of Alcoa Premiere. On page 4 of The Tri Star Defender, January 26, 1963, is written the following information.

 

[MrJosh 892]

1 hour ago, Thor said:

 

This has been on various JW filmographies since the 90s (I remember seeing it on Scott Hanson's site, for example). That, and "Flashing Spikes". Of course, we now know "Flashing Spikes" was a John Ford-directed ALCOA episode, but "Big G" remains a big mystery still. Personally, I would remove it from filmographies until we know more about what it is.

ah, fascinating. I'll set that aside on my 'maybe/ unknown' shelf

1 hour ago, Thor said:

 

Right. Williams was not involved with that show.

Thanks!

1 hour ago, Thor said:

 

This was a summer replacement show of the variety kind that didn't require much original score to begin with. As far as we know, Williams was not involved with this at all. Although sponsored by Kraft, it wasn't connected to Kraft Mystery or Suspense Theatre. Kraft Foods was sponsoring all over the place at the time, so quite confusing, I know.

Ah makes sense then. Confusing indeed, good work on somehow sorting out all the Krafts. 

1 hour ago, Thor said:

 

This is what I would label "event music", not TV music. Unlike, say, "The Olympic Spirit", which was composed specifically for NBC's coverage of the Olympics in Seoul, this was not composed specifically for the coverage, but for the Democratic convention in Atlanta itself (although it happened to be televised as well).

Yep, that makes sense!

[Thor 7,517]

3 hours ago, Junion said:

Many thanks. Actually, some statements in this thread even support my assumption that John Williams was involved. I haven’t seen this episode either but @filmmusicdid. And according to his description and screenshot of the end credits Johnny Williams provided the music score. 
 

By the way, here is another hint that “George Gobel Presents” was part of Alcoa Premiere. On page 4 of The Tri Star Defender, January 26, 1963, is written the following.

 

Hey, nothing would please me more if he was. Konstantinos, care to chime in?

[Junion 107]

7 hours ago, Thor said:

Hey, nothing would please me more if he was. Konstantinos, care to chime in?

Yeah, me too.  Would be awesome to get a confirmation.

[Thor 7,517]

Williams now confirmed for GOBEL, thanks to Konstantinos. So I have another one to add to the 'redux' version.

[Junion 107]

Finally, I managed to listen to the second episode of that podcast. Again, this is a brilliant episode compiled by Thor and a must for all John Williams fans who are interested in his early compositions when he still was in his 20s!

 

Especially, the presentation of TV series Alcoa Premiere is very interesting as a lot of unreleased cues can be heard. Hopefully, there will be an official soundtrack release in the future.

 

There are several fascinating clips like
- A Moment of Decision (wonderful action cue with an excellent piano solo (maybe played by JW himself?),
- Pattern of Guild (the clip lasts 2:30 minutes and is full of suspense),
- Mr.Easy + Guest in the House (nice and easygoing lounge style clips)
- Blues for a Hanging (great jazzy style)
- Blow High, Blow Clear (cool trumped theme with a film noir vibe)
- Jeenay Ray (playful and pleasant cue)

 

By the way, I did a little research to figure out why there are different names of the series Alcoa Premiere. Well, season 1 was produced at Revue in 1961 & 1962 and fully sponsored by Aluminium Company of America (=Alcoa). For this reason the series was called "Alcoa Premiere" in the US by that time.

 

Season 2 in turn was only half-sponsored by Aluminium Co. of America. The other company that participated in the second season was R.J. Reynolds Tobacco.  Therefore, with the beginning of season 2 the formal title of the show changed to "Alcoa Premiere, presented by Fred Astaire" one week, sponsored by Aluminium Co. of America alternating with "Premiere" or "Premiere, presented by Fred Astaire" the other, then sponsored by R.J. Reynolds Tobacco. In Australia and England, on the other hand, the show was broadcast in the early 1960s under the title "Fred Astaire's Premiere Theatre". So, I guess most uploaded videos on Youtube are recordings from Australia or England as they contain that show name.

 

[Thor 7,517]

Thanks, Junion, and for the info on the names. That's also a jungle to sort out propery. Same goes for Kraft too, with all its iterations, in syndication and beyond (Suspense, Crisis, Impact etc.), depending on where it airs etc.

[Thor 7,517]

Here’s finally the REDUX version of the podcast series, the only one I'll ever do. Took me a while to get around to, but there are so many nuts and bolts.

 

For those of you who have already listened through the series, I provide time codes below for where the significant additions and changes are.

 

PART 1:

 

- Removed some fill words, corrected a few mistakes

- Double checked for more episodes of General Electric Theatre. None found.

- Added an episode-by-episode walkthrough of M Squad, all 8 episodes (21:54)

- Added a suite of incidental music from Bachelor Father (43:59)

 

PART 2:

 

- One additional episode of Alcoa Premiere found, “George Gobel Presents” (01:06:13)

 

PART 3:

 

- Corrected a couple of mistakes

- Added what is presumably John Williams’ theme for Kraft Mystery Theatre (22:20)

 

PART 4:

 

- Added two additional episodes of Chrysler Theatre, “The Game” and “The Admiral” (19:23)

 

PART 5:

 

- Double checked for second episode of Convoy. Not found.

- Double checked for more episodes of The Tammy Grimes Show. None found.

- Double checked for CBS Playhouse episode. Not found.

- Added an episode-by-episode walkthrough of Wayne and Shuster Take an Affectionate Look At…, 8 out of 9 episodes found! (24:10)

 

PART 6:

 

- Added the “Rodeo” NBC News theme (32:12)

 

This leaves only the CHECKMATE project, which will be down the line.

[Bayesian 1,363]

You have done all of JW scholarship, and the wider world more broadly, an important service, @Thor. 

[Yavar Moradi 2,599]

Wonderful, Thor! Still very much looking forward to your thorough Checkmate coverage as I really like what I've heard from that series, but it's really helpful to have time stamps to skip to for the existing episodes that have been expanded, since I already devoured the original versions of these eps months ago.

Yavar

[Thor 7,517]

Cripes, I forgot about one of the most important things -- a suite of incidental music from BACHELOR FATHER. Added now. Took me a long time to assemble too, so shame on me for forgetting.

[Thor 7,517]

Almost a month later, and I'm curious if anyone has had the chance to listen to the new material?

[KittBash 282]

I've gotten through the first 2 so far... Biggest reason is I've had to listen to them several times.

I have to watch what I'm doing when listening to them or I miss details as they are so full of info! Really I have to do nothing but listen and there's not a lot of that time around these days.

Either way, Amazing work, I love'em and they are going to be a bit of a meal for some time to come as I comb through them again, and again, and again 

[Thor 7,517]

Yes, sorry. I know some haven't listened to them much at all, much less the new "redux" material (and some have no interest in the series at all, that's also perfectly OK). Thanks for the feedback, Kitt!

[Yavar Moradi 2,599]

I'll find the time to listen to the new bits, but I've found it kinda hard to skip around to those in the player. If these were available through a regular podcast app, I wouldn't have that problem but this player is finicky and I can only skip around so much before it gives up and I have to reload the page and start from scratch...

 

Will chime in with any thoughts on the newly-added bits, after I listen.

 

Yavar

[Thor 7,517]

Cheers, Yavar. Are you using a cell or a PC? I use a PC and can scroll pretty good in the player by sliding it (if I don’t hit the time code exactly, then at least within 30-60 seconds before). But maybe it’s more finicky on a phone. You need to hold down while scrolling.

[ConorPower 148]

On 16/9/2023 at 6:08 PM, Thor said:

Almost a month later, and I'm curious if anyone has had the chance to listen to the new material?

Returned to Part 6 to listen to the “Rodeo” section for The Mission, and it managed to become a last minute addition to the conclusion of the my thesis! I thought I’d explored all of Williams’s Americana - but somehow this passed me by.
Thanks so much for all of your excellent work!!! 

[Thor 7,517]

13 hours ago, ConorPower said:

Returned to Part 6 to listen to the “Rodeo” section for The Mission, and it managed to become a last minute addition to the conclusion of the my thesis! I thought I’d explored all of Williams’s Americana - but somehow this passed me by.
Thanks so much for all of your excellent work!!! 

 

Thanks! Yes, it's a great piece, and shame on me for forgetting to include it the first time around. But there are so many variations and bumpers in Williams' news and Olympic music, sometimes something slips by.

 

[Thor 7,517]

By the way, Conor, you do have Williams' TV Americana covered, right? Early western shows etc.

[ConorPower 148]

@Thor I couldn’t really make room for much of them at all sadly, even given the length of a PhD thesis. Mostly confined myself to a film framework, but managed to touch on Wide Country a little. Given that JW’s Americana has been underserved in academia more generally I felt it was important to start off with something likeThe Cowboys. 

Hopefully, I might try make something of his TV writing for a future publication. 

[Yavar Moradi 2,599]

I'm almost always doing my podcast listening from an iPhone. So yeah I can overshoot by quite a few minutes, and if I try to go back it sometimes won't even work then and I have to refresh the page. I'll get there though.

 

Yavar

[Thor 7,517]

On 24/09/2023 at 10:20 PM, ConorPower said:

@Thor I couldn’t really make room for much of them at all sadly, even given the length of a PhD thesis. Mostly confined myself to a film framework, but managed to touch on Wide Country a little. Given that JW’s Americana has been underserved in academia more generally I felt it was important to start off with something likeThe Cowboys. 

Hopefully, I might try make something of his TV writing for a future publication. 

 

For your reference, should you choose to expand into television, some western/Americana episodes worth including (as featured in the podcast series):

 

GENERAL ELECTRIC THEATRE - "Journal of Hope", "Journey to a Wedding"

TALES OF WELLS FARGO - "Threat of Death", "Dealer's Choice", "Man for the Job", "Day of Judgement"

WAGON TRAIN - "The Beauty Jamison Story", "The Kitty Angel Story", "The Swift Cloud Story", "The Jenny Tannen Story", "The Kitty Pryer Story", "Those Who Stayed Behind"

ALCOA PREMIERE - "Second Chance" (essentially WIDE COUNTRY, which you've already touched on)

WHO GOES THERE? - "Pilot" (sorta, it involves Custer and a Native American, so it has some of those colours, despite being a sitcom)

WAYNE AND SHUSTER TAKE AN AFFECTIONATE LOOK AT... - "The Westerns" (reuses themes from WAGON TRAIN on a couple of occasions)

[ConorPower 148]

@Thor Awesome. Thank you for reminding me of some of these. There's actually much more than I remember. Definitely deserving of a separate focussed study.

[Jay 37,370]

@Thor, question for you.

 

Now that you've done all the research for your great podcast, can you tell me if there is any wrong information on the JWFan.com TV Works page?

 

https://jwfan.com/?page_id=3886

 

I know "Big G" is still a complete unknown and "Flashing Spikes" is actually just an Alcoa episode, does anything else stick out as wrong?  Or do you notice anything missing from that list?

 

Any else reading this, feel free to reply on this matter as well.

 

THANK YOU!

[Thor 7,517]

Yes, the current information on JWFAN stems from me back in the day, I believe, and bits are outdated now. Doing a complete revamp is a bit too much at the moment (anyone willing to listen to the podcast and adjust the details are welcome to do so!), but just a few quick notes:

 

- I'd remove "Dukakis" and "Liberty Weekend", as these are event pieces.

 

- Remove THE COWBOYS - we now know they didn't use Williams' theme for the TV series.

 

- Add that SERGEANT RYKER is an adaptation of "The Case Against Paul Ryker" from KRAFT

 

- Remove KRAFT SUMMER MUSIC HALL

 

- Remove VOYAGE TO THE BOTTOM OF THE SEA

 

- Remove BIG G

 

- There is no original soundtrack recording for ALCOA. Only the theme is released, on THEMES TO REMEMBER.

 

- A couple of things need to be added - BREAKING POINT, MARKHAM, CBS PLAYHOUSE, INSIDE THE MOVIE KINGDOM, AND BABY MAKES THREE...

 

- Many of the episode counts are wrong. 4 episodes for TAMMY GRIMES, not 10. 9 for WAYNE AND SHUSTER, not 5. Etc. etc. It would take me some time correcting all of these.

 

Maybe I'll find some time later to be a bit more comprehensive.

 

 

[Jay 37,370]

Awesome, thanks Thor!!

[Jay 37,370]

22 hours ago, Thor said:

- Remove THE COWBOYS - we now know they didn't use Williams' theme for the TV series.

 

They did use his theme!  The opening titles of every episode was new arrangement of his movie theme.  But JW himself didn't arrange it for the show, Henry Sukman did.  Beyond the main title though, it is true that the underscore of the individual episodes never used any of Williams' themes.

 

Harry Sukman scored every episode, and also recorded a main title cue that ended up not getting used, replaced by the new recording/arrangement of Williams' movie theme.  The original Sukman main title cue recording was included on the 1994 Varese The Cowboys album as track 7 "Alternate Main Title", seemingly because Townson didn't realize it was Sukman's theme from the 1974 show and had nothing to do with Williams' 1972 movie score.  Since that recording wasn't used in the show, it was a nice premiere of unheard music for Sukman fans!

[Thor 7,517]

Ah, OK. I thought the "misunderstood" cue on the COWBOYS album was the original main title, and hence no reuse of Williams. Makes sense, though.

 

I wish there were some episodes available somewhere, but I couldn't find a single one in my research.

[Jay 37,370]

3 minutes ago, Thor said:

I thought the "misunderstood" cue on the COWBOYS album was the original main title, and hence no reuse of Williams

 

That *IS* what it is.  Isn't that what I said?

 

3 minutes ago, Thor said:

I wish there were some episodes available somewhere, but I couldn't find a single one in my research.

 

Yeah, WB leaving money on the table not releasing their old TV series somewhere.  Why now throw them on Max?

[Thor 7,517]

Sorry, the main title that was used, is what I meant. This has done the rounds for me. For years, we did indeed have the correct information, as pulled from Jeff's old JW buyer's guide, that Sukman arranged the JW film theme for the series. Then the information surfaced about track 7 on the 1994 COWBOYS CD being the main title. Somewhere in there, I confused things, thinking track 7 was the only main title of the show, and hence no JW anywhere.

[Jay 37,370]

Right - it was intended to be the main title of the show, but got replaced in all aired episodes.

[mrbellamy 6,287]

On 24/08/2023 at 12:26 PM, Bayesian said:

You have done all of JW scholarship, and the wider world more broadly, an important service, @Thor. 

 

Just finished listening to the whole series and agree with the above! Thanks a lot, Thor. 

 

#1 favorite discovery was the "Moment of Decision" prologue, you hyped it up in your intro and it didn't disappoint. I'm definitely converted to the cause of an Alcoa Premiere box set. Love that Tammy Grimes theme too, and I wish I could see Inside the Movie Kingdom!

 

I'm actually not sure I'd ever gotten around to "Scherzo for Today" from the NBC News pieces either? Or it's been awhile but that's a fun one. This was also a reminder for me that I gotta finally watch those Amazing Stories episodes....I guess part of me has always liked knowing there were still two more Spielberg/Williams collabs just sitting out there. 

 

One non-Williams piece of trivia I wanna nitpick was about the Heidi Game. You said that it went into "overtime" which implies the game was tied and Heidi interrupted who won (which still probably would have made US football fans really mad) but it was even funnier than that. The game was standard but just ran a little long into Heidi's premiere, and since it appeared the Oakland Raiders were going to lose, anyway, it might not have caused such a ruckus...except in those final 61 seconds on the clock that Heidi covered up, the Raiders unpredictably scored two touchdowns and won. You probably already know this but that's what made it extra crazy. 

 

Anyway, late to the party but superb. As a JWFan for so many years it was kind of touching in a way to finally listen to you with all this runway on a subject you've always been frustrated isn't one of the bedrocks of this forum  really appreciate you collecting all of this and sharing. I'm sure I will be listening again, especially to help enhance my reading of the big JW biography next year. 

 

I'm glad I was able to listen on Google Podcasts in its dying days....it's the only app that had Celluloid Tunes, I guess because it works differently than other podcast catchers. I will miss it! But it made it slightly more convenient to download the show and save for the future 

[Thor 7,517]

Thanks for the comments, and the correction on the HEIDI game, Mr. Bellamy. I think I was just going by the old Jeff Eldridge buyer's guide on that one, as the liner notes on my old Label X release are fairly skimpy.

[Yavar Moradi 2,599]

I'll have to try out Google Podcasts for my relisten! Maybe it'll save my place, which was one of my pet peeves when listening on Thor's website. Thor, do you still plan to cover Checkmate thoroughly with a final podcast episode? I'm still excited for that...

 

Yavar

[Thor 7,517]

I do, yes. But I have a number of personal issues that need to be sorted out first. It's a surplus energy project, after all.

 

It appears this Google Podcasts app closes tomorrow(!), so if anyone wants to download for posterity from that site, I suppose today is the day.

[mrbellamy 6,287]

Yeah Google Podcasts actually has direct mp3 links in the description for each of your episodes. Not sure if that's an oopsies.

[Yavar Moradi 2,599]

On 01/04/2024 at 10:25 AM, mrbellamy said:

Yeah Google Podcasts actually has direct mp3 links in the description for each of your episodes. Not sure if that's an oopsies.

 

I didn't notice these, and sadly Google Podcasts just cut off my access today even though I had pre-downloaded all six episodes through their app, and had started listening to the first one (had just arrived at the new material!) Frustrating. I guess the files are probably still on my phone somehow, but I can't access them through the app now.

 

Yavar