The Doctor Who Thread.....

[Tallguy 3,398]

10 minutes ago, Sweeping Strings said:

Wonder will Gatwa's title sequence reinstate the Doctor's face briefly appearing? Last seen during the Capaldi era. 

 

That's a Moffat thing, isn't it?

 

 

[Brónach 1,302]

well Rusty is a Moffat fanboy

[Sweeping Strings 2,363]

2 hours ago, Tallguy said:

 

That's a Moffat thing, isn't it?

 

 

Actually, now I think about it ... yep. No Eccleston or Tennant's face in theirs during RTD's first run, and no Whittaker's in hers during Chibnall's. 

[Richard Penna 3,694]

I'd assume the sequence from these three is what it will be going forward.

 

Still think the new theme arrangement is too orchestrationally fancy. It started life as an electronic piece and the simplicity of the melody feels like it's being diluted a bit.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,544]

3 hours ago, Tallguy said:

 

That's a Moffat thing, isn't it?

 

 

 

Yes it was, but only, if memory serves, starting with "The Snowmen", or, possibly, "The Bells Of St. John".

[Knight of Ren 789]

I've been reading a lot of discussion lately about the show, and made me curious to want to check it out, but there's a huge amount of material out there. I read somewhere that since there isn't a lot of continuity between the different incarnations, the christmas specials where a good place to start, so I was wondering if these three new Disney+ specials would be a great place to jump in for a newcomer.

 

If not, then where would you recommend me to start?

[Tallguy 3,398]

51 minutes ago, Knight of Ren said:

I've been reading a lot of discussion lately about the show, and made me curious to want to check it out, but there's a huge amount of material out there. I read somewhere that since there isn't a lot of continuity between the different incarnations, the christmas specials where a good place to start, so I was wondering if these three new Disney+ specials would be a great place to jump in for a newcomer.

 

If not, then where would you recommend me to start?

 

Probably The Eleventh Hour. Season Five, episode 1. Some might argue The Christmas Invasion, season 2. I would say The Pilot, season 10. All New Who.

 

I don't think the latest three are a good intro. But maybe they are. I have a feeling this Christmas might be a great place to start.

[enderdrag64 624]

2 hours ago, Knight of Ren said:

I've been reading a lot of discussion lately about the show, and made me curious to want to check it out, but there's a huge amount of material out there. I read somewhere that since there isn't a lot of continuity between the different incarnations, the christmas specials where a good place to start, so I was wondering if these three new Disney+ specials would be a great place to jump in for a newcomer.

 

If not, then where would you recommend me to start?

Yeah I heard the three new specials are heavily reliant on the last 3 series + series 4. I'd personally recommend just starting with New Who series 1 from 2005. Anything later and you're missing context for earlier stories, anything earlier will be long and boring for modern audiences without already having a love for the show

[Tallguy 3,398]

9 hours ago, enderdrag64 said:

I'd personally recommend just starting with New Who series 1 from 2005.

 

The reason I don't do that is that I know several people who decided to "try this Doctor Who thing" with Rose and they hated it.

 

OTOH I started watching Doctor Who with The Pirate Planet. So maybe you just learn that he's a person (who was one time a she) who travels in space and time in a machine that looks like a 1960's police box and is bigger on the inside than the outside. If you must know the show changes the lead actor every few years for reasons. Sometimes the show is very silly. Sometimes it's kind of scary (in a ten year old fashion of scary). It's almost always fun. So just watch it and have a good time.

 

My kids have been watching "seriously" (it's really a thing they watch with Dad) since Jodi Whittaker. They've seen bits of David Tennant. My daughter and I just watched Matt Smith's first season and my son and I just watched Christopher Eccleston's second episode because he realized that CE is the one Doctor he's seen almost nothing of. (Again, there are many wonderful qualities about the Ninth Doctor but I do not recommend that season for newcomers just on the question of budget and technology alone.)

[Brónach 1,302]

9 hours ago, Tallguy said:

 

Probably The Eleventh Hour. Season Five, episode 1. Some might argue The Christmas Invasion, season 2. I would say The Pilot, season 10. All New Who.

 

I don't think the latest three are a good intro. But maybe they are. I have a feeling this Christmas might be a great place to start.

 yeah it's most likely series 1 (or series 2), series 5, series 10, and probably the next one.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

Amy's intro to the Tardis is definitely the one I remember most. That whole episode is a great intro to the format and to my personal favourite Doctor after Tennant.

[Brónach 1,302]

13 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

 and to my personal favourite Doctor after Tennant.

 

i would list my favourite doctors of modern who (but not stories, that's different) in this way from my favourite to the least: 12, 11, 9, 14, 10, 13

[mstrox 6,651]

I’d go 12, 10, 13, 11, 9 (haven’t seen the new specials yet).  I like the 11 companions but not particularly Matt Smith and definitely not some of the plotting of those seasons.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

10, 11, 12 for me, then Eccleston and Whittaker on the same footing.

[Sweeping Strings 2,363]

Fifteen's sonic is a curious beast. The question is, does it finally have a setting for wood? 

[Brónach 1,302]

that's the worst prop i've ever seen

[mstrox 6,651]

It’s an upgrade from the sonic sunglasses at least!

[Brónach 1,302]

at least that turned out to have a context

[mstrox 6,651]

Maybe 15 has a good reason to be carrying around a sonic vibrator

[Brónach 1,302]

it comes in handy

[Sweeping Strings 2,363]

[Badzeee 110]

On 11/12/2023 at 6:43 PM, Richard Penna said:

I'd assume the sequence from these three is what it will be going forward.

 

Still think the new theme arrangement is too orchestrationally fancy. It started life as an electronic piece and the simplicity of the melody feels like it's being diluted a bit.

 

The new version of the theme is kitchen sink, bells, whistles, anything that makes a sound thrown down the deepest mine shaft to make as much clatter as possible. Murray Gold wasn't subtle last time RTD was showrunner, although he calmed a great deal under Stephen Moffat's stewardship of the show. Apparently, RTD's producer Phil Collinson always wants things "louder," so that's what we've got... again. To my ears, there's always too much going on... it's become the aural style of the RTD era(s). 

I really liked Segun Akinola's take on the theme tune, which was both a respectful and atmospheric update of the original. Retained a sense of the sinister, too. I actually quite liked Gold's 11th Doctor take, too... but this new version (especially the end titles) sounds bloated to the point of distraction. 

[Richard Penna 3,694]

Finally someone who also appreciates Akinola's version!

 

For me, the strength of this theme is in the simplicity of the theme with that driving baseline, and not in adding a full orchestra just to make it bigger and more colourful.

[Brónach 1,302]

Akinola made the best version of it in New Who

 

to be fair murray is probably being told to make it warm and family friendly and adventurous and i think he hilariously mentioned this in an old interview

[TSMefford 1,509]

Seems there's an explanation for the weird edit of the title sequence.

 

From the BBC iPlayer Commentary for "The Giggle":

Quote

David Tennant: We filmed a bit to go in the title sequence. Talk us through it, producers.

 

Russell T Davies: Alright then.

 

Tennant: What happened there?

 

Davies: What do you think, Phil.

 

Phil Collinson: I think you should speak.

 

Davies: I think, I think I’m the only person that liked it!... We shot a sequence in the middle of this in the title sequence where David and Catherine hang out of the TARDIS doors, which then we shot it for Ncuti and Millie as well. Hanging out of the TARDIS with all the time vortex going past... Literally, it was like a war of attrition.

 

Collinson: Everyone who watched it, hated it.

 

Davies: Everyone just…. I loved it!

 

Collinson: I liked it! Do like it!

 

Davies: Enlighten me!

 

Collinson: I told you I liked it!

 

Davies: Eventually, it was Moffat who happened to see it.

 

Tennant: What’s he got anything to do with anything anymore?!

 

Davies: I play it to him, “Look, what a great big title sequence we’ve got.” He went “Oh that’s absolutely brilliant. Cut that shot.” Literally lethal. “Cut that shot.” I went, “Don’t you like that?.” “Cut that shot.” “But isn’t it…” “Cut that shot.”

 

Tennant: No debate?

 

Davies: No debate.

 

Collinson: No debate.

 

I don't think what they're talking about sounds like a bad idea. I would've been curious to see it. I agree with Tennant though - what's Moffat got to do with this anymore?

[Tallguy 3,398]

51 minutes ago, TSMefford said:

what's Moffat got to do with this anymore?

 

Heh heh heh heh.

[Sweeping Strings 2,363]

Can't say I'd object if he was tempted back as a writer. 

[Brónach 1,302]

RTD is a big fan, they've worked together, he shows him stuff, it makes sense. And if he writes something it would be nice.

[Tallguy 3,398]

49 minutes ago, Sweeping Strings said:

Can't say I'd object if he was tempted back as a writer. 

 

He's done that Moffat thing where he categorically denies that he's coming back in such a specific way that I'm 99% sure he's coming back.

 

BTW, as clever as Mof can be, we just watched The Impossible Astronaut and when 11 is trying to regenerate after being shot nobody (including the Doc) is surprised that he's going to regenerate. So he didn't come up with the (admittedly clever) math that 11 had already had twelve regenerations yet. Yes, yes, I know. It's a show. It isn't real.

[Brónach 1,302]

but eleventh already knows what he is doing, and the rest don't necesarily know about tentoo or the war doctor

[Naïve Old Fart 9,544]

As long as Moffat doesn't bring back those bloody stupid Angel things, I'll be happy.

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Brónach said:

but eleventh already knows what he is doing, and the rest don't necesarily know about tentoo or the war doctor

 "tentoo"?

[Brónach 1,302]

the metacrisis doctor that was left with rose.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,544]

Ooooh! Right. Thanks. Now there's three versions of 10 running around. Weird.

[Brónach 1,302]

I read some say that what happened was too new and weird and i was like "oh no they did that again". but perhaps the second time is cooler than the first, all details considered.

[Sweeping Strings 2,363]

Yep. The 'metacrisis' Doctor is pretty much why I have no issue rolling with the 'bigeneration'. 

[Sweeping Strings 2,363]

Christmas special trailer - 
 

The fact that seeing the Doctor clubbing is far, far weirder than seeing him clinging to a ladder which is dangling from a flying galleon crewed by what appear to be actual goblins sums up the show rather neatly, lol. 
 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,544]

The Doctor is no longer "The Doctor". He's just an adventurer.

[Brónach 1,302]

some of this actor related usually. ncuti dances, peter plays the guitar and so on

[Richard Penna 3,694]

Ah, just the same trailer from the end of the last episode.

 

I wonder who it was who came across this library track and thought... yes.. Doctor Who.

 

(for the record, I don't go looking for these things - there are tools that make identifying library tracks stupendously easy)

 

 

[Sweeping Strings 2,363]

3 hours ago, Brónach said:

some of this actor related usually. ncuti dances, peter plays the guitar and so on

Ah yes. If memory serves, in a bit of 'metaness' one of the things Capaldi was heard to play was the theme tune.  

[Brónach 1,302]

he also played clara's theme

 

by the time of the second, they were already incorporating parts of the actor into the character, and sometimes you do have to get stuff from somewhere, but i've also seen people  question some of these things

[Tallguy 3,398]

1 hour ago, Sweeping Strings said:

Ah yes. If memory serves, in a bit of 'metaness' one of the things Capaldi was heard to play was the theme tune.  

 

Well. He played Beethoven's Fifth and then the same guitar was heard in the opening credits. Probably Capaldi but not necessarily the Doctor. Or was there a more explicit reference?

[Sweeping Strings 2,363]

Is it not the theme he's playing when he enters on the tank? 

[Tallguy 3,398]

4 hours ago, Sweeping Strings said:

Is it not the theme he's playing when he enters on the tank? 

 

Nope. I don't think it is. If is it's a really muddled arrangement. And then he plays Pretty Woman.

[Sweeping Strings 2,363]

The Xmas special is going to need a rewatch methinks. Initial impression was 'mixed bag'. 

[Marian Schedenig 8,200]

I watched it yesterday. Great fun! A few silly bits (the song was half fun half too silly, but that's better than many other RTD song sequences). And it wasn't clear to me why the Doctor was waiting for Ruby at the end (new companion, sure, but usually you see when he decides to take on a new one, unless it happens by accident), or what made her join him without question or argument. But who cares, when all the fun and excitement I expect from Who was there. Gatwa and Gibson make a great team, and Gold is having fun again, too!

 

(Also, mavity is back. And I expect Ruby's origin story may form an arc of some point. Plus, what's up with the elderly neighbour at the end? Maybe just some 4th wall breaking - but in that case it's very goofy, so I'd hope there's a bit more to it… probably not though)

[DarthDementous 1,059]

15 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

I watched it yesterday. Great fun! A few silly bits (the song was half fun half too silly, but that's better than many other RTD song sequences). And it wasn't clear to me why the Doctor was waiting for Ruby at the end (new companion, sure, but usually you see when he decides to take on a new one, unless it happens by accident), or what made her join him without question or argument. But who cares, when all the fun and excitement I expect from Who was there. Gatwa and Gibson make a great team, and Gold is having fun again, too!

 

(Also, mavity is back. And I expect Ruby's origin story may form an arc of some point. Plus, what's up with the elderly neighbour at the end? Maybe just some 4th wall breaking - but in that case it's very goofy, so I'd hope there's a bit more to it… probably not though)

There is almost certainly more to Mrs. Flood than meets the eye, she knows way more than she should and is putting up the appearance of just being a normal nosy neighbour. The fourth wall breaking feels more like a hint to her connection to these new supernatural occurences I would say

I think the episode establishes both 15 and Ruby as very much the kind of people that just go with the flow. 15 is now unburdened by a lot of the past anxieties and so there feels like there's less deliberation behind his actions, like he very much operates off vibes as opposed to consternating about whether he should risk taking another companion, which I think is something that hung over pretty much every other occurence of this in Nu Who. I could see this getting them both into trouble though, The Doctor might learn a lesson about over-correcting into being too carefree. In addition, I think 15 feels a lot of kinship with Ruby as both foundlings and is feeling that absence of family especially since 14 essentially gets to have one while he rushes off into the wilderness of time and space

From a first watch the episode was very frantic but that's par for the course with Christmas Specials so I look forward to when the regular run starts so we can really sit with these characters

EDIT: Just watched the commentary and yep, my intuition is very right. They've got plans for Mrs. Flood and that final scene was not just a gag

[Sweeping Strings 2,363]

Had to lol at comments elsewhere that 'the Goblin King's let himself go since Labyrinth' and at others comparing him to post-transformation Chet from Weird Science. 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,544]

Current internet-based theories re: Mrs. Flood:-

1/ Ruby's mom (if so, why did she leave her outside the church, but stay close?)

2/ Missy 

3/ The Rani 

4/ Romana (unlikely, but possible)

5/ The Doctor's mom (also unlikely, but also possible)

6/ Another Time Lord (Chancellor Flavia; Rassilon; Cardinal Barousa; someone The Doctor hasn't met yet)

7/ An agent for any of the above, or for another party

8/ Angie Watts

 

[Badzeee 110]

It would be kind of hilarious if Mrs Flood really did just turn out to be Angie Watts.