The Doctor Who Thread.....

[pixie_twinkle 48]

James, I'm typing up my "special summary" right now, that'll have a link to the teaser for Christmas that was shown in Blighty. (Somehow, I have nothing better to do on a Saturday night...My excuse is I'm working all weekend... )

I can't think of anything better to do with your Saturday night! Can't wait to see the teaser!

[John Crichton 4]

OK, here's what we know right now about the "gap year" specials:

'08 Christmas Special

- Firstly, since Sci-Fi didn't show it in the US last night, the teaser can be seen

. Return of the Cybermen is not the official title, RTD has said it's a 3 word title that's currently secret.

- The special was filmed at the end of Series 4's shooting schedule last spring. RTD wrote it, and it's directed by Andy Goddard.

-

The story is loosely based on the Colin Baker Big Finish audio

The One Doctor, which featured a man that impersonated the Doctor and faked alien attacks, invasions, etc, and collected the reward for "defeating" them. Originally it was said that the special would be a light comedy in the same vein as the audio, but lately I've read that it's going to be a Hinchcliffe-style Gothic horror story, and I tend to believe the latter. Unlike previous Christmases it's not set in the present day,but takes place in Victorian England. David Morrisey is playing the imposter Doctor (here's a good pic of him in costume), who, along with accomplises, is faking a Cyberman invasion, only to have the real Cybermen and the real Doctor turn up. There's a lot of speculation on whether the Cybermen in the story will be new series alternate universe or classic series ones. Obviously the new series costumes are being used, but there's no definitive word on that question yet. The story will also feature "Cybershades" (pic), which supposedly are the creation of the fake Doctor and co. using that era's technology.

2009

- There will be four hour long specials, which start filming in January, the day after the last performance of Hamlet. The only set dates right now are Easter and Christmas. There's also heavy speculation that the last two will form a single two part story, and will be broadcast Christmas '09 and New Year's Day '10. Two of them will be written by RTD solo, the other two co-written by RTD and Gareth Roberts (The Shakepeare Code, The Unicorn and the Wasp, several Sarah Janes) and Phil Ford (Sarah Jane and Torchwood, no Who experience) respectively. And I'm sure we can expect Graeme Harper to be directing at least one.

- In the all but confirmed rumor department are return appearances by

John Simm (the Master)

and

Georgia Moffett (Jenny)

. There's also going to be another classic series villan return, namely

the Sea Devils

. It's also being discussed that one special will be filmed "abroad" somewhere.

- It was heavily rumored that

Paul McGann (the 8th Doctor)

was going to appear, but the latest I've read says that for whatever reason it's not happening now. Or should I say for now?

- Some of the crazier, grain of salt rumors include

Sophie Aldred (Ace), a visit to Winston Churchill, Brian Blessed (Blessed playing Churchill?), and the man himself- Tom Baker.

BTW, everything I'm reading right now is leaning strongly toward David Tennant being back for Series 5 with The Moff. Let's hope so.

[Bryant Burnette 654]

Tonight, I watched two of the Tom Baker serials I'd never seen: "Horror of Fang Rock" and "City of Death."

LOVED both of them.

I can be a little iffy on the original series, which I'd never watched until after seeing (and loving) the first season of the new series. However, these two are pretty excellent. In terms of tone and pace, they're very effective, and Tom Baker is just off-the-wall awesome in both of them. Also awesome: Louise Jameson in that sweater in "Fang Rock."

Side-note. At Dragon*Con this year, there were waaaay more people in Doctor Who costumes than I'd ever seen there in the previous nine years. Almost all of them were Tennant costumes; I saw one or two last year, but this year it must have been a couple dozen. Also, most of the Doctor Who-related panels apparently were absolutely swamped with people trying to get into them. (I only tried one, and it was definitely swamped.)

Looks like Who fandom in America is on the rise big-time. Fine by me; it's good stuff.

[John Crichton 4]

Two excellent choices. I remember a year or so ago I was in Hastings determined to get a classic Who DVD, and the only one that looked worthwhile was Fang Rock. I hadn't seen it in years and was a bit reluctant, but loved it and I'm really glad I bought it. City of Death is the peak of the "silly Tom" era, possibly the wittiest Who script ever (by Douglas Adams, of course).

I read about the Comic Con panels and just the fact that Who was there was a great indication of how popular it's getting over here. The ratings that Sci-Fi is getting for it has caused them to get the new series earlier and earlier, to the point that Series 4 this year was shown only about a month behind the UK. I hope they'll pick up the specials next year quickly, and with both Stargate and Galactica ending Who might be their biggest ratings grabber come Series 5 in '10, unless they come up with something better between now and then.

[Bryant Burnette 654]

Two excellent choices. I remember a year or so ago I was in Hastings determined to get a classic Who DVD, and the only one that looked worthwhile was Fang Rock. I hadn't seen it in years and was a bit reluctant, but loved it and I'm really glad I bought it. City of Death is the peak of the "silly Tom" era, possibly the wittiest Who script ever (by Douglas Adams, of course).

I read about the Comic Con panels and just the fact that Who was there was a great indication of how popular it's getting over here. The ratings that Sci-Fi is getting for it has caused them to get the new series earlier and earlier, to the point that Series 4 this year was shown only about a month behind the UK. I hope they'll pick up the specials next year quickly, and with both Stargate and Galactica ending Who might be their biggest ratings grabber come Series 5 in '10, unless they come up with something better between now and then.

I would think SciFi Channel has got to be thrilled with how well Doctor Who is performing, since (presumably) they don't have to shell out much money for it past licensing fees.

Odd that BBC hasn't sent it to BBC America, though.

On the subject of "City of Death," I'm even now getting a little giggly at the though of Duggan smashing his way through walls and prison cells and then literally punching humanity into existence. That's silliness of the highest order.

[John Crichton 4]

BBC America actually does show Who, but not until months and months after their initial Sci-Fi run.

There's actually been a lot of new casting scuttlebut for next year's specials, mostly follow ups on what's above but also a couple of new tidbits:

John Simm and Georgia Moffett are pretty much 100% guaranteed.

New to the rumor mill is a return appearance by both Catherine Tate and Bernard Cribbins.

The big one:

But the one that's blown up in the last few days is the return of Paul McGann as the 8th Doctor, specifically to shoot Time War flashback scenes. What makes it interesting is that the BBC has issued an official denial, they way they have before when certain casting rumors have turned out to be true. Trusted inside sources are now saying this is happening!

[Richard Penna 3,695]

John - just how 'spoilerific' is that invisotext?

I'm very, very curious about what's coming up, but I don't want to find out anything like, huge...

[Bryant Burnette 654]

BBC America actually does show Who, but not until months and months after their initial Sci-Fi run.

There's actually been a lot of new casting scuttlebut for next year's specials, mostly follow ups on what's above but also a couple of new tidbits:

John Simm and Georgia Moffett are pretty much 100% guaranteed.

New to the rumor mill is a return appearance by both Catherine Tate and Bernard Cribbins.

The big one:

But the one that's blown up in the last few days is the return of Paul McGann as the 8th Doctor, specifically to shoot Time War flashback scenes. What makes it interesting is that the BBC has issued an official denial, they way they have before when certain casting rumors have turned out to be true. Trusted inside sources are now saying this is happening!

That sounds great, but

what would be even better would be for it to turn into a "Three Doctors" type thing with McGann, Tennant, and Eccleston.

There is also a rumor going around that Tennant is making it known that he is willing to sign on for another full season, but only if a feature film is wrapped into the deal somehow.

A well-done Doctor Who movie starring David Tennant would be an enormous hit in its home country, so I can't imagine why everyone involved wouldn't bend over backward to make it a reality.

[Greg1138 3]

A well-done Doctor Who movie starring David Tennant would be an enormous hit in its home country, so I can't imagine why everyone involved wouldn't bend over backward to make it a reality.

Steven Moffatt has already said he'd love to do a theatrical movie but would only do it if David Tennant starred.....interesting!! Perhaps some wheels are already in motion somewhere? I'd love another Doctor Who movie, personally!!

[pixie_twinkle 48]

Yes, but only if the main character is a human called "Doctor Who" who travels around with Roberta Tovey...

John, I haven't heard any of those rumours before, but I would LOVE for them to be true! Especially the big one.

[John Crichton 4]

John - just how 'spoilerific' is that invisotext?

I'm very, very curious about what's coming up, but I don't want to find out anything like, huge...

Hmmm...how about mild to moderate. It's all casting stuff, nothing real plot specific but it'll definately point you in the direction some things are going.

Personally I'm honestly not interested in a movie, but if they did one the best vehicle would be as Bryant mentioned, a story with

McGann, Eccleston, and Tennant, telling the full story of the Time War. Which could just as well be one of the specials.

John- who also really hopes it's all true

[Greg1138 3]

The Torchwood Team have been back in action again - Captain Jack, Gwen and Ianto were called to investigat strange goings-on at the inauguration of the Large Hadron Collider in Switzerland in a one-off Radio drama....PM me if you would like to hear a....erm....rather long sample

[John Crichton 4]

I knew that thing would destroy the world!

Speaking of, there's also some scuttlebut that there's some big Who/Torchwood crossover special being planned for this year's Children in Need. Also don't forget series 2 of Sarah Jane is premering at the end of the month. Both the opening and closing stories feature the (or at least a) Sontarans, and the finale will see the return of Sir Alastair!

[John Crichton 4]

The Series 4 soundtrack is on the way! Preliminary details here.

[Bryant Burnette 654]

Watched another couple of Tom Baker serials: The Leisure Hive and The Keeper of Traken.

I wasn't too thrilled by either of them. I will say, however, that the production design in The Keeper of Traken was rather impressive: it still looked like a bunch of cheap sets, but they were extremely well-designed cheap sets.

I was surprised to hear talk -- in The Keeper of Traken -- of there being a limit to the number of regenerations each Time Lord can undergo. If I understood it correctly, that means that once we get to the thirteenth Doctor, he'll be the last.

That brought up a couple of questions in my mind, and if they've been covered elsewhere on the board, please forgive me showing up late to the parties, but:

(1) Do we think the BBC will stick to that "rule"? After all, it doesn't appear to have been a part of the series initially; I don't know if The Keeper of Traken was the first time the idea was brought up, but if so, then you could very handily make the case that in terms of the show overall, it's bullspit. On the other hand, it's an interesting idea from a dramatic standpoint, and you could probably get a great run of episodes out of the idea of the "Last Doctor."

(2)

So, the tenth Doctor regenerated during Series Four, but he simply kept his current form. Does that mean that he is now the Eleventh Doctor? How does this fit in with the notion of limited regenerations?

Things like this are part of the reason I just can't help but love Doctor Who. I mean, there's just so much of it to play around in.

[Greg1138 3]

The Series 4 soundtrack is on the way! Preliminary details here.

November is getting expensive!!!!!

Thanks for the heads-up.....

[Richard Penna 3,695]

Hell yeah!!!

Can't get enough of Gold's music for this show. They're plugging the right stuff on the front cover too. I hope 'The Doctor's Theme' is one of those really slow and noble renditions of he melody in 'The Doctor Forever'. There sure were enough of them in series 4.

I'll preorder the second I see a tracklist.

[John Crichton 4]

Re: Bryant's comments (I hate large quote boxes)- The Keeper of Traken is, in my opinion, the best designed classic Who story ever. It's amazing what they did with the budget they had.

As far as the regeneration questions go, you're raising a lot of points that have been debated and we don't have definitive answers for. It is classic series cannon that Time Lords only have 12 regenerations/13 lives. In fact that's a huge part of the Master's character, that he's used all his regenerations (theoretically Delgado's Master was his last) and is having to find more and more extreme methods to stay alive, as in Keeper of Traken. But, then the Master regenerates in the new series. That bothered me a bit and I wanted an explanation, fortunately we got one- he mentions that the Time Lords ressurected him for the Time War, presumably also giving him a few new lives in case of accidents. On top of that the 13 life rule has never been mentioned in the new series, in fact Time Lords have been hinted at (not directly said though) being immortal. Given how faithfully they've stuck to classic series cannon I can't see them just throwing it out the window, but pratically it is something they'll have to work around at some point if the series continues another 10-15 years.

As for the question whether the Doctor used up a life at the end of The Stolen Earth, even David Tennant himself has raised that question. It's up in the air right now.

[pixie_twinkle 48]

I never thought that he'd used up a life. I think the hand in a jar was a lovely way of getting around that. Don't ask me how. It probably reversed the polarity of the neutron flow or something...

[Bryant Burnette 654]

I watched "Logopolis" tonight.

That was the best they could think of as a send-off for Tom Baker?!?

The first three episodes are fairly good -- I enjoy Logopolis itself, and Tom Baker is (as always) great. On the other hand, Anthony Ainley as The Master is just terrible. He's no Roger Delgado, but apart from that, his whole take on the character is just abysmal. A lot of that is the writing, of course, but he doesn't do himself any favors.

As bad, or possibly worse, is Tegan. I'd heard through the grapevine that she was not exactly one of the more popular companions, and I think I see why.

The fourth episode is pretty awful, and feels almost like it was written by someone other than whoever wrote the first three. Lots of chasing (accompanied by strangely porno-sounding score), lots of malicious laughing, little actual drama or fun or sense. It was somewhat touching to see the Doctor's "life" flash before his eyes, as he envisioned the previous copanions he'd had in his fourth incarnation, but that nice note wasn't enough to change the fact that the Fourth Doctor got a pretty poor sendoff.

[Greg1138 3]

I watched "Logopolis" tonight.

That was the best they could think of as a send-off for Tom Baker?!?

The first three episodes are fairly good -- I enjoy Logopolis itself, and Tom Baker is (as always) great. On the other hand, Anthony Ainley as The Master is just terrible. He's no Roger Delgado, but apart from that, his whole take on the character is just abysmal. A lot of that is the writing, of course, but he doesn't do himself any favors.

As bad, or possibly worse, is Tegan. I'd heard through the grapevine that she was not exactly one of the more popular companions, and I think I see why.

The fourth episode is pretty awful, and feels almost like it was written by someone other than whoever wrote the first three. Lots of chasing (accompanied by strangely porno-sounding score), lots of malicious laughing, little actual drama or fun or sense. It was somewhat touching to see the Doctor's "life" flash before his eyes, as he envisioned the previous copanions he'd had in his fourth incarnation, but that nice note wasn't enough to change the fact that the Fourth Doctor got a pretty poor sendoff.

Aha! One of my favourite stories come up for dissection!!

You know - I don't have a problem with the way the regenration was dealt with....in fact I think it was probably the most emotional of the lot - and "The Watcher" raised a lot of questions about the nature of The Doctor that were only vaguely hinted at...

Anthony Ainley was actually extremely good as The Master - when he was finally given the chance to put some of his own interpretation into it! Sadly that was not until the very last story of the Sylvester McCoy era - "Survival" - only then do we see a hint of what we could have had. Until then, Ainley had been pretty-much instructed NOT to play The Master, but to "play" Roger Delgado. Sure, the script didn't help (though it was better than many), but he just wasn't given the chance to shine - instead he ended up looking like an embarrased Pantomime Villain much of the time.

Janet Fielding (Tegan) became more and more disillusioned with the way her character was protrayed and treated - this ham-fisted introduction didn't help! She did actually manage to show off some serious acting chops in some slightly later stories (check out "Kinda" and the final 5 minutes of "Resurrection of the Daleks") - but was ultimately dissatisfied. When she was asked to return to the world of Who 2 years ago - in the Big Finish audio drama "The Gathering" - she agreed but only on the condition that she had some input into the story etc so that she could put to bed the feelings of how her character had been treated all those years ago. The result was - for audio drama - simply stunning.

[Bryant Burnette 654]

Moving along in my jaunt through original series Doctor Who, I most recently watched "Castrovalva."

Not bad. Not bad at all.

I haven't made up my mind about Peter Davison yet; hardly a surprise, since he spends most of these episodes acting ill rather than acting like the Doctor. Makes sense, since the Doctor is ill for most of the time. But he seems promising enough. I especially enjoyed the moments in which he allowed facets of the previous Doctors' personalities to come out; Davison did a great Patrick Troughton impression.

I also really enjoyed seeing the Tardis portrayed as an enormous place in which one could quite literally become lost. I'd like to see more of the interior of the Tardis in the new series; that seems like an idea that's ripe for exploration.

[John Crichton 4]

I haven't made up my mind about Peter Davison yet;

He's a little shaky his first season (you're better off avoiding Four to Doomsday altogether), but as time goes by he makes the part as much his own as every other actor to play the Doctor. For the man who had to replace Tom Baker he did a great job of putting his own stamp on the character. Notice he was the one that was chosen as the first "classic" Doctor to make an appearance in the new series, with both Tennant and Steven Moffatt gushing about how he was their favorite in their younger days.

[pixie_twinkle 48]

Bryant, I have to agree with your assessment of Logopolis. The first three episodes are really fantastic. I especially love the Tardis recursion scene with infinite Tardises inside each other. Logopolis itself is well realised, if a rather boring civilization! They just wander around like poets, or sit muttering in cubby holes in the walls keeping the universe alive. Great idea!

The final episode isn't bad, but I think the Doctor's final scene on the telescope, and his fall to death are very badly handled. It all looks so fake, and I never felt any sense of real danger. I wish they'd made these scenes a bit less campy and more dramatic. We really should have seen him start to fall. There were many great falling scenes during Tom's era. Sarah's fall at the end of Genesis of the Daleks episode 2, the Doctor's fall into the black pool at the end of Planet of Evil episode 3 etc. But this most important of all scenes is very cheesy and has absolutely no sense of threat or being in any way convincing. Then that horrible Nyssa line "So the watcher was the Doctor all along". What??? How does she know? Why was it something she felt the need to speak out loud at such a critical moment?? Why can no one see how abysmal this whole scene is????

I'm sorry, but Logopolis is one of the worst regeneration stories, even though the first 3 episodes make for great Dr Who.

By the way. Amazon.co.uk has some fantastic classic Who DVDs on sale! I just ordered Planet of Evil, Beneath the Surface (Silurians/Sea Devils/Warriors of the Deep), Time Warrior, Claws of Axos, War Machines, and City of Death for a total of sixty pounds sterling! That's a hell of a deal for 8 such marvelous stories.

[Bryant Burnette 654]

Bryant, I have to agree with your assessment of Logopolis. The first three episodes are really fantastic. I especially love the Tardis recursion scene with infinite Tardises inside each other. Logopolis itself is well realised, if a rather boring civilization! They just wander around like poets, or sit muttering in cubby holes in the walls keeping the universe alive. Great idea!

The final episode isn't bad, but I think the Doctor's final scene on the telescope, and his fall to death are very badly handled. It all looks so fake, and I never felt any sense of real danger. I wish they'd made these scenes a bit less campy and more dramatic. We really should have seen him start to fall. There were many great falling scenes during Tom's era. Sarah's fall at the end of Genesis of the Daleks episode 2, the Doctor's fall into the black pool at the end of Planet of Evil episode 3 etc. But this most important of all scenes is very cheesy and has absolutely no sense of threat or being in any way convincing. Then that horrible Nyssa line "So the watcher was the Doctor all along". What??? How does she know? Why was it something she felt the need to speak out loud at such a critical moment?? Why can no one see how abysmal this whole scene is????

I'm sorry, but Logopolis is one of the worst regeneration stories, even though the first 3 episodes make for great Dr Who.

By the way. Amazon.co.uk has some fantastic classic Who DVDs on sale! I just ordered Planet of Evil, Beneath the Surface (Silurians/Sea Devils/Warriors of the Deep), Time Warrior, Claws of Axos, War Machines, and City of Death for a total of sixty pounds sterling! That's a hell of a deal for 8 such marvelous stories.

You're obviously MUCH more Who-knowledgeable than I, so I yield to your opinions. But I'm glad to see that you more or less agree with my assessment of the end of "Logopolis." I haven't yet seen THAT many of Tom Baker's episodes, so I can't claim to be personally disappointed; but for the actor who at that time was (and possibly still today is) THE most popular and famous actor to play the Doctor, this ending seems wholly inadequate. It's even more of a shame considering that the majority of "Logopolis" is really very good; in baseball terms, it'd be like running for home plate and getting thrown out only becuase you trip over your own feet somewhere between third base and home. What a shame.

I look forward very eagerly to getting more of Baker's episodes from Netflix. I'm especially keen on the whole "Key to Time" season, which I've heard is good.

For now, though, I'm going to run through some Peter Davison, and follow that up with some C. Baker and McCoy, and then the McGann movie (which I bought a bootleg of, it being unavailable in the states). After that, I'll go back to Hartnell and start filling in some of the gaps I've passed over.

[John Crichton 4]

I don't totally disagree with your assessments, but I've always liked Logopolis. I actually think it starts off weakly and gets better and better as it goes. Ainley gives a great performance as the Master, it's more in line of how he wanted to play the role before he was constantly told to go OTT in future stories. It's a great distinction from Delgado's Master, he has a much harder edge and is more borderline psychotic, probably because of his time living more or less as a skeleton. It might be partly from the rapport Delgado and Pertwee had, but when it came down to it I think that Delgado's Master would never, ever actually kill the Doctor. Ainley's would.

Aside from that, I love the funeral atmosphere througout Logopolis. The longest running Doctor is leaving and they did a great job of making it an important, story long event rather than just something that happens at the end. And the climatic scenes could have been better shot, it would have been nice to have seen the Doctor actually fall. But if you watch the documentary on the DVD, it's one of those instances that they're trying to squeeze those final shots in at the end of the night before the lights were literally turned out.

[pixie_twinkle 48]

But if you watch the documentary on the DVD, it's one of those instances that they're trying to squeeze those final shots in at the end of the night before the lights were literally turned out.

I did watch that documentary recently (on the DVD bonus features), and it's amazing how close to the wire those last scenes were filmed! Incredible it got finished at all really! I agree with what you said about Delgado's Master never seeming able to actually kill the Doctor, but that's why I liked him so much. He really was the Moriarty to Pertwee's Holmes. The only way either of them could possibly have killed the other would have been in a fight to the death on a cliff above a waterfall where one falls to his death! Aaah!

Bryant, if you're on the lookout for great Tom Baker stories to watch I'm sure John, Greg and I can point you in the right direction. My personal choices would be:

The Seeds of Doom (if you can find it anywhere.)

Genesis of the Daleks (THE epitome of all Dalek stories.)

City of Death (it's a blast from start to finish!)

Terror of the Zygons (ignore the rubber Loch Ness Monster and you've got one of the best Who stories ever.)

Pyramids of Mars (a really good creepy story)

The Deadly Assassin (the best of the Time Lord stories)

The Talons of Weng-Chiang (for some vintage Robert Holmes writing and just a great was to spend a couple of hours)

Good luck with The Key To Time. It's very entertaining. Hardly Tom's best episodes, but overall a very entertaining set of adventures. Oh yes, and Mary Tamm is rather lovely. Pirate Planet, Stones of Blood, and Androids of Tara are my favourite stories from that season.

[John Crichton 4]

I agree with what you said about Delgado's Master never seeming able to actually kill the Doctor, but that's why I liked him so much. He really was the Moriarty to Pertwee's Holmes. The only way either of them could possibly have killed the other would have been in a fight to the death on a cliff above a waterfall where one falls to his death! Aaah!

You know, that was Robert Holmes' original ending for The Trial of a Time Lord, just with the Doctor and the Valeyard.

My list of recommended Tom Baker stories (some will be the same as James', that'll tell you the really good ones!):

The Ark in Space

Genesis of the Daleks

Pyramids of Mars

The Brain of Morbius

The Deadly Assassin

The Face of Evil

The Robots of Death

The Talons of Weing-Chiang

Horror of Fang Rock

The Sun Makers

The Ribos Operation, The Pirate Planet, and The Andriods of Tara (all from the Key to Time)

City of Death

The Leisure Hive

The E-Space trilogy: Full Circle, State of Decay, Warrior's Gate

...That's a lot of Who...

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Just rewatched the Unicorn and the Wasp. Very clever and funny. I really appreciate these light-hearted episodes, especially after being emotionally exhausted by the intense finale of season 4. The standouts are Fenella Woolgar as Christie and Felicity Kendal as Lady Clemency. Woolgar really brings something interesting in her portrayal of Christie, she's obviously a torn woman fresh from marital breakdown but determined to "carry on", as the British do. It'd be so easy for these historic characters to be cheesy caracatures intended only as an extention of the initial concept (a string of mysteries happening around Agatha Christie), but it was good.

Donna was bloody hilarious in this episode. From her attempt at a snobby British accent to the excellent charades scene in the kitchen she really carried a lot of the humour. All the more painful knowing what's in store for her. I will miss Tate an awful lot, her Donna was so unique and complex. Never thought I'd say that before this season started.

For a flimsy, obvious concept episode it was surprisingly deep with strong characters and fairly strong writing. Even the minor commentary on the homophobic society of the 20s was handled well, largely thanks to Donna's delicate observation of the footman who couldn't grieve. Especially after she first guesses about the affair ("All the good ones are on the other bus...")

In short, not a particularly noteworthy episode. But it continues to deepen the many qualities of Donna Noble that make her more than just the best temp in Chiswick, and contained a strong character in Agatha Christie.

[John Crichton 4]

Catherine Tate made believers of us all. That episode was actually only the second one made, so she was still getting her feet. Just wait until the last few episodes.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Oh I've seen them. That's why I'm going back and watching her earlier episodes. Mainly because I'm grieving for her myself!

[pixie_twinkle 48]

I hope they maintain the power of the season finale by not bringing her back. I was dead set against her becoming a companion after The Runaway Bride (as I think many were). However I was very impressed with her character throughout season 4. She will go down as being one of the more interesting companions, with one of the most devestating finales. Great stuff!

John, I forgot about Ark In Space. Great Tom Baker story!

[davros72 1]

As much as I love Billie and the character of Rose,

I felt that her recent return in Series 4 cheapened the impact of her departure from 2 years ago and her story arc overall. In general I was pleased to see her, but disappointed in how it lessened the tragic separation. And leaving her with a "duplicate" Doctor who *was* able to say "I love you" felt kinda icky.

My two cents.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Just a convenient way of getting rid of the

buck-toothed blonde

once and for all.

[John Crichton 4]

As much as I love Billie and the character of Rose,

I felt that her recent return in Series 4 cheapened the impact of her departure from 2 years ago and her story arc overall. In general I was pleased to see her, but disappointed in how it lessened the tragic separation. And leaving her with a "duplicate" Doctor who *was* able to say "I love you" felt kinda icky.

My two cents.

I have to disagree. I was worried about the same thing, but I think her return was handled perfectly. When they first see each other at the end of The Stolen Earth is one of the highlights of the series, they were great together after, and Rose, once again, got a great ending.

Now the trick is to never bring her back again.

[davros72 1]

As much as I love Billie and the character of Rose,

I felt that her recent return in Series 4 cheapened the impact of her departure from 2 years ago and her story arc overall. In general I was pleased to see her, but disappointed in how it lessened the tragic separation. And leaving her with a "duplicate" Doctor who *was* able to say "I love you" felt kinda icky.

My two cents.

I have to disagree. I was worried about the same thing, but I think her return was handled perfectly. When they first see each other at the end of The Stolen Earth is one of the highlights of the series, they were great together after, and Rose, once again, got a great ending.

Now the trick is to never bring her back again.

I do agree that the reunion scene was wonderful, the overall arc of her return just rubbed me the wrong way in terms of her original departure. I'm not explaining my feelings well at all, so I'll just stop, pay me no mind.

[John Crichton 4]

No, I get what you're saying. You're just wrong.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

I get the feeling that Steven Moffat will do a lot less - pardon the expression - "fan wanking" than Russell, so I don't expect to see much of the Daleks, Rose, Martha or Donna when he takes over. I won't say he's more creative than Davies, but his episodes speak for themselves. Brilliant, original ideas. Terrifying monsters. And terrific writing - all without anything to do with Daleks, Cybermen or the Master.

This is the man who came up with the Family of Blood - in some ways the scariest of the original villains because their appearance is (ironically, considering the theme of "human nature") completely human. And let's not even mention the Weeping Angels - they're the stuff of nightmares. I can't wait to see what else he comes up with in 2010.

These are my hopes, anyway. Don't let me down, Steven. You have the potential to make Who something really special.

[pixie_twinkle 48]

I'd love to see a return to the gothic horror style of seasons 12-14. I know people are always singling those seasons out for praise, but I honestly think there's a good reason for that. Besides, those were "my" years for watching the show as a kiddie. I often went to bed shaking with the memory of the cliffhanger fresh in my fertile imagination. I'd love to see a return of the Krynoids, or the Zygons (and not just a fleeting cameo like they treated the Macra in Gridlock, but rather a whole story devoted to them), but apart from that I'd really just like to see Moffatt doing his own thing. He's done an incredible job so far.

I would like to see another story by Mark Gatiss at some point. I know his "Idiot's Lantern" was less than spectacular, but "Unquiet Dead" is one of the best of all the new series episodes IMHO.

[davros72 1]

I get the feeling that Steven Moffat will do a lot less - pardon the expression - "fan wanking" than Russell, so I don't expect to see much of the Daleks, Rose, Martha or Donna when he takes over. I won't say he's more creative than Davies, but his episodes speak for themselves. Brilliant, original ideas. Terrifying monsters. And terrific writing - all without anything to do with Daleks, Cybermen or the Master.

This is the man who came up with the Family of Blood - in some ways the scariest of the original villains because their appearance is (ironically, considering the theme of "human nature") completely human. And let's not even mention the Weeping Angels - they're the stuff of nightmares. I can't wait to see what else he comes up with in 2010.

These are my hopes, anyway. Don't let me down, Steven. You have the potential to make Who something really special.

I hate to nitpick, but as big a Doctor Who fan as I am I cannot let this one pass... Paul Cornell wrote Human Nature/Family of Blood, not the Moff. And technically they're not "original" to the new series... that two-parter was based on a Doctor Who New Adventures novel called "Human Nature" written by Cornell himself back in the 90s.

Don't mean to cause trouble, just the fan in me being nerdy.

[John Crichton 4]

I don't know, I think The Moff is an even bigger classic Who fan than RTD. Put him together with Tennant and they can talk Who with the geekiest of fans. I don't mind fanwankiness, continutity porn, whatever you want to call it, as long as it's good. Joss, for example loves to load his shows up with it, and in the later years of Buffy they would actually be poking fun at the show's dense mythology.

And Moffatt's said himself directly that his writing style will, have to, change. Up until now he had been giving RTD something very specific, the "Moffatt episode", a style that got very well defined. Now as showrunner he's going to be responsible for mixing it up, something he's said he's looking forward too.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

I get the feeling that Steven Moffat will do a lot less - pardon the expression - "fan wanking" than Russell, so I don't expect to see much of the Daleks, Rose, Martha or Donna when he takes over. I won't say he's more creative than Davies, but his episodes speak for themselves. Brilliant, original ideas. Terrifying monsters. And terrific writing - all without anything to do with Daleks, Cybermen or the Master.

This is the man who came up with the Family of Blood - in some ways the scariest of the original villains because their appearance is (ironically, considering the theme of "human nature") completely human. And let's not even mention the Weeping Angels - they're the stuff of nightmares. I can't wait to see what else he comes up with in 2010.

These are my hopes, anyway. Don't let me down, Steven. You have the potential to make Who something really special.

I hate to nitpick, but as big a Doctor Who fan as I am I cannot let this one pass... Paul Cornell wrote Human Nature/Family of Blood, not the Moff. And technically they're not "original" to the new series... that two-parter was based on a Doctor Who New Adventures novel called "Human Nature" written by Cornell himself back in the 90s.

Don't mean to cause trouble, just the fan in me being nerdy.

My mistake indeed! I was certainly under the impression he at least wrote the teleplays for those two episodes. Don't know why! And I call myself a Who fan....

Nonetheless, he's definitely the most talented and unique writer of the current series. Replace the family of Blood two parter I mentioned with "The Empty Child" and "The Doctor Dances" from season 1 and my comments still stand strong.

"Are you my mummy?"

[John Crichton 4]

There's a rumor making the rounds in the British press today about all seven living Doctors being brought together for a special for this year's Children in Need. There's no word as to whether it'll be an actual "episode" like last year's Time Crash or just an informal get together/reunion. I'm thinking the latter is more likely.

There's also a report that Tennant is in talks to stay in the role through 2011. Reading between the lines of press reports and quotes from all involved point a pretty definitive line that he will at least be back for Series 5.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Well playing the Doctor in the current series would be one of the best jobs on earth. Surrounded by beautiful women all the time, and if that didn't take your fancy replace them with men! Doing stunt work, getting to play opposite awesome (and awful) monsters... Awesome. I wouldn't want to leave.

Having said that, I can see why Chris Eccleston left. But the producers should be doing everything they can to keep Tennant, and I think they have by breaking up next year into specials.

I just want another series, right now!!!

[Richard Penna 3,695]

I think Tennant staying until 2011 is quite likely actually. He's the most popular Doctor and has repeatedly says that he misses the role. There's also the very likely movie, and I would definitely want Tennant in that.

[Greg1138 3]

For anyone who might have missed it, the Torchwood Soundtrack is on the shelves.....

Tracklist is:

1. Everything Changes

2. The Chase

3. Ghosts

4. Sleepers, Awake!

5. Toshiko And Tommy

6. Into The Hub

7. The Mission

8. Gray's Theme

9. Jack's Love Theme

10. Another Day, Another Death

11. Look Right, Then Leave

12. Welcome To Planet Earth

13. The Plot

14. Out Of Time

15. The Death Of Dr. Owen Harper

16. King Of The Weevils

17. Owen Fights Death

18. The Woman On The Roof

19. Owen's Theme

20. Pearl And The Ghostmaker

21. Flat Holm Island

22. A Boy Called Jonah

23. Toshiko Sato - Betrayal And Redemption

24. Gwen And Rhys

25. Jack Joins Torchwood

26. Captain Jack's Theme

27. I Believe In Him

28. Memories Of Gray

29. Goodbyes

30. Death Of Toshiko

31. The End Is Where We Start From

32. Torchwood Theme

Greg - who listens to Captain Jack's theme on the walk to work - just the right length and puts me in the right mood

[Richard Penna 3,695]

You nearly made my heart stop there... a tracklist in the Doctor Who Thread

Torchwood has been out as a digital album for about 2 months now. I'm actually not so keen on this one - there's a lot more mindless techno stuff on here than Who.

[John Crichton 4]

Now that we have the Indy tracklists I'm (im)patiently awaiting to find out what's going to be on the Series 4 Who disc. Though I'm finding these "best of" releases to be less than satisfying, I'd rather have some complete episode scores.

By the way, I've unearthed a new source with lots of juicy potential tidbits about Series 5, Moffatt's plan, and future Doctor casting. Should I share?

[Richard Penna 3,695]

I tend to find that while these 'best of' sets do contain a lot of crowd pleasing modern stuff, there are usually enough highlights to make it worth acquiring. There are at least two tracks I didn't rip from the series 3 disc, and quite a few more I barely listen to, but I think it's worth it for the highlights such as The Doctor Forever and The Runaway Bride.

I just hope not too much comedy stuff, especially from the first episode, makes it to the series 4 disc. The fact that The Doctor's Theme is mentioned on the cover however, makes me hope we're going to get at least one track devoted to the amazing theme heard in Doctor Forever, which got several huge workouts this series.

Go on... spill the beans

[John Crichton 4]

I skip over all the Human Nature stuff on the Series 3 disc, that score never gripped me. I don't care much for Martha's theme either, or the cues from the finale other than the Master themes complilation track.

As for...the beans. OK, here goes. First the easy stuff that's been virtually confirmed at various levels. We all know that Moffat will be taking the show in a bit of a darker direction. He also has a preference for 2 parters, so we should be seeing more of those. There were reports a few weeks ago about the Daleks being featured in an opening 2 parter. Apparently that was the Beeb's wish, Moffatt has been fighting that idea and it appears he's winning.

I'll put the more spoilery stuff in the spoilery text. This is all rumor, mind, it could turn out to be a pile of Slitheen droppings:

-A new, Jamie inspired companion: a young Scottish female from a non-contemparary (re: historical) time period.

- The return of Mark Gatiss, adapting his old novel Nightshade. There's a really crazy rumor involved here that I'm reluctant to even mention, but here goes: possibly featuring the return of Tom Baker. Not playing the Doctor.

-A mid season return of the Ice Warriors

- And the big bad for the season....(double spoiler alert) the Zygons. Full bodysnatcher mode. Flashbacks revealing Zygons in every episode during the year.

Contradicting recent reports, this source says the plans are already laid for Tennant's departure following Series 5. The names supposedly being thrown about include Jack Davenport, who's already starred in a Moffatt series (Coupling) and of course Pirates of the Carribean. I've actually thought about him after Moff was announced to take over, I think he'd be a good Doctor. Another was Marc Warren, who I've never heard of. And the last name? Hold onto your pants, butts, whatever for this one:

Sean Pertwee

That's right. Son of Jon.

Now that I read this it doesn't seem as believable as when I first saw it. Oh well. I pass it on anyway, if it's wrong then we haven't been spoiled.