The Doctor Who Thread.....

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Goodness, I completely forgot about the Christmas special! Excellent, I'll be watching that one on Boxing Day with my sister!

[John Crichton 4]

I'm going to try to get it from the *cough*usualsources*cough* Thursday night and/or Friday. You Aussies are lucky, you're getting a proper broadcast right away. No word so far on what Sci-Fi is planning on doing for the specials. Odd considering Who had become one of it's flagship shows, maybe the flagship show now that Stargate and Galactia are ending.

[Jay 37,373]

Why are they only doing a few specials in 2009 instead of another 13episode season?

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Actually John, we don't get the broadcast until July, so I'll also be getting it from the usual sources. I'll just have to wait until Boxing Day as it'll be Christmas Day at the same time in the UK.

Jason, I think the reason is that David Tennant is doing some stage work at the moment and only had time to a few specials. I'm sure someone else can explain in more detail though.

[John Crichton 4]

Actually magical, you're getting it in a month.

The main reason for the year of specials was to allow Tennant to star in the RSC's latest production of Hamlet this year. Filming a whole series of Who runs from Julyish to March/April the following year. This year's Christmas special was recorded last spring at the end of the series 4 recording block, and the remaining ones will be shot starting in early January. But it also gives the production team(s) a year of lighter work to make the transfer from RTD to Steven Moffat as showrunner. Series 5 should start production sometime in early summer.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Oh, thanks for that John, I had no idea! Still, I'll be watching this one tomorrow anyway! haha.

[John Crichton 4]

My thoughts on The Next Doctor (why am I always getting these in before the Brits here ):

SPOILERS

Mostly enjoyable, but possibly the weakest Christmas episode so far. The first half is wonderful, but after the mystery as to who David Morrison's "Doctor" is gets solved about halfway through it becomes a pretty standard runaround. The montage of previous Doctors was less than I thought it would be, but still very nice to see. I was laughing like crazy at the final emergence of the Cyber King, just at the sheer absurdity (in a good way) of it. I guess RTD did promise us a big honkin' robot. The ending was lovely too, from the Doctor finally getting a bit of thanks to the touching closing scene with Tennant and Morrisey, who had great chemistry throughout. No big cliffhanger either, nothing leading in to the Easter special.

[aj_vader 534]

I was a little disspointed with The Next Doctor. Most exciting part for me was hearing Murray Gold's new renditions of the Cybermen Theme. Well done Murray!

[Richard Penna 3,694]

Yes, I found it quite disappointing actually. After the Morrissey thing was cleared up (and I'm still not quite buying that

history-in-a-can-that-also-kills-the-cybermen

thing) it all sort of degenerated into a 'doctor kills the big cyberman' episode.

And as for that CG... hehehehehehehehehehehe. I've seen better in a computer game, and there was a typical RTD 'escape route' in the

destruction of those cybermen in big cyberman's head

.

Ending was very touching though, and the chemistry was superb.

[John Crichton 4]

I wasn't watching in best quality, but the shots of the Cyber King definately didn't have the wow factor that The Mill's gorgeous Titanic exteriors had last year.

[Bryant Burnette 654]

Haven't watched "The Next Doctor" yet, but I did rewatch "The Impossible Planet" and "The Satan Pit" for the first time since they aired. Terrific. Probably my two favorite episodes of the entire series.

[John Crichton 4]

Not to mention a couple of great scores, the first whiffs of true greatness from Murray Gold IMO.

[Bryant Burnette 654]

Not to mention a couple of great scores, the first whiffs of true greatness from Murray Gold IMO.

Yes, indeed. How well-represented are those episodes on the series two soundtrack? I've been meaning to start buying those CDs, and this might tip me over.

[John Crichton 4]

Not well. The specific Impossible Planet track has a bit of the solo string stuff (can't remember the name of the instrument) followed by some really generic music, and then the action music is its own track: New Adventures.

Still, the CDs are worth getting even though they play as "best of" compilations that don't really let a completist like me get their teeth in the music. The complete cue for the taxi/TARDIS chase from The Runaway Bride is on the Series 3 disc and is just phenominal.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

All 3 CDs are outstanding IMO, even though as John said, they're little more than a 'best of', with priority given to some 2-parters. I think there's easily enough material to make 2-CD sets, and I do wonder if that has been considered at any stage. Gold himself says in the liner notes that there are usually several episodes in each season that he'd like to release separately sometime.

The first CD is more fragmented because it's representing 2 seasons, but it allows a good variety of music, although I don't like either of the songs on it (heard as source music in the first Christmas special).

The season 3 disc is very slanted towards the 'Mr Smith' 2-parter (nearly 1/4 of the disc is taken from that set of episodes), and all of the highlights from the finale are included. The rest is a varied selection from most of the other episodes. The taxi chase was performed at the musical celebration 2 years ago and I wanted it ever since, so I was overjoyed at its inclusion - it's a near masterpiece of scoring and easily rivals anything Williams writes in my opinion.

The season 4 CD is by far my favourite. It is bookended with the updated main/end title themes, and gets the obligatory/mindless action cues out of the way fast. it also has a surprising slant towards the more emotional and darker/minimalism style cues. The finale is superbly represented (a third of the CD has cues containing music from the last 3 episodes), although Hanging on the Tablaphone is a downright bizarre inclusion, and is basically the electronic elements from that final

doctor is 'exterminated' and 'Sarah Jane is ambushed'

sequence, omitting all of the far more interesting orchestral part that leads into the cliffhanger ending. If I ever get hold of a DVD of the finale, I will be ripping it to make a proper version of that ending.

The season 4 highlight for me is the 10 minute suite from Voyage of the Damned, which begins with the wonderful heroic doctor's theme heard during the 'I'm the Doctor... I'm a Time Lord...' speech (sans the female solo for some reason) and includes highlights of the action material, instrumental passages of 'The Stowaway' and finishes with a wonderful wintry passage from I assume the end of the special.

By the latest season though, there's a lot of tracked music being used, and heavily edited some of the time. The very final cue for the Doctor's departure in the rain is track 14 from the S3 disc, and the music for the

'two doctors' scene on the beach in the parallel world

scene is a mish-mash from all over the place (S1 track 28 and S4 track 3 part 2 then 1).

If you liked Gold's music at all within this series (you can probably tell from this lengthy waffle that I'm a huge fan), all CDs are highly recommended

[John Crichton 4]

And a great bonus is that Murray Gold writes extensive liner notes himself describing each track. I assume that's continued for Series 4?

[Richard Penna 3,694]

Absolutely. Part of the reason I've bought all of the CDs (and Torchwood) is for the detailed notes. They explain what episode each track is from, and anything interesting related to it.

I think the speed these CDs are coming out shows how much effort is going into releasing this music. The season 4 disc came out about 4 months after the season finished, which is basically one every year. I hope there will be a 'specials' CD with music from the xmas special.

TV scores are clearly getting more and more attention these days. The recent BBC series Merlin got a release before the season was over, although I thought it was generic, temp track ridden crap, but each to his own. 24: Redemption also got a dedicate CD with most of the score from the episode.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

I was entertained by "The Next Doctor". I wasn't really expecting anything profound - I really do think the time is right for RTD to leave the show. It's not that he's any less of a writer than when he began, but I'm starting to nortice the patterns he has when he writes. He no longer surprises me with his writing - some of the twists and revelations seem a tad forced. Still, I loved the gigantic Cyberman robot and particularly liked the villainess, Miss Hartigan. She was unfortunately too underdeveloped (I never really swallowed her motivation, "to be liberated"), but a beautiful and threatening enemy nonetheless.

I happened to watch the first Christmas special, "The Christmas Invasion", immediately afterwards as my sister hadn't seen it yet. That one really is the best of the specials so far - the story it tells about Rose's anguish and inability to accept the "New Doctor" who abandons her is given just as much weight as the invasion storyline. We all had to adjust to the new, brilliant Doctor, and the best way to do that was through Rose, and it was so easy to do with a character as identifyable and fleshed out as hers.

although Hanging on the Tablaphone is a downright bizarre inclusion, and is basically the electronic elements from that final doctor is 'exterminated' and 'Sarah Jane is ambushed' sequence,

omitting all of the far more interesting orchestral part that leads into the cliffhanger ending. If I ever get hold of a DVD of the finale, I will be ripping it to make a proper version of that ending.

Not sure if anyone else picked up on this, but that music in the cliffhanger is a fully orchestral statement of the "Doomsday" theme. I only noticed this on my last viewing. I really want this music too!

As far as the soundtracks are concerned, I was really, very impressed with the S4 release. It's simply fantastic. The highlight for me is easily the 10 minute "Voyage of the Damned" suite. Murray states he's extremely proud of that score and it's not hard to see why. He really crafted a wonderful and adventurous score with an excellent theme ("The Stowaway", even though I dislike the song itself) to bind it together. My favourite is the last two minutes of music, with that final swell of gorgeous strings and Melanie Pappenheim's voice giving me shivers every time.

I've also very much grown to the "Greatest Story Never Told" music, from the Library/Forest of the Dead two-parter. At first I found it to be generic "impressive cinematic vocals and orchestra" music, but I like it much better after repeated listens. It has a rousing statement of the Doctor Forever theme as well as cool vocal overlapping of the season 3 action theme ("All the Strange, Strange Creatures").

The only thing that bothers me is that a lot of the tracks on the album differ from the versions on the show - for instance "A Dazzling End" is quite a bit different even if the chord progression and orchestration are essentially the same. Still, it's a great album and really shows Gold's maturity as a composer. He's now capable of restraining himself and producing some truly beautiful moments of music.

That was a long post... P.S. We both have "Master" avatars now, John!

[John Crichton 4]

That was a long post... P.S. We both have "Master" avatars now, John!

Yeah, but I earned mine.

There's a lot of subtext with Miss Hartigan that's not explicitly stated becuase of the kiddies. She's obviously a prostitute that's been abused on more than one occassion. And I agree, The Christmas Invasion is still the gold standard for the Christmas specials.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Oh wow, I didn't notice you'd reached that status! haha, well done.

Yes, I just read up on Miss Hartigan's character and can definitely see why they couldn't delve deeper into her character. Still, I think there was so much potential there, it's a pity they can't realise it fully.

[John Crichton 4]

And she was dead sexy too. Great voice.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Absolutely. She didn't need to ham it up, you could hear it all in that voice. And wow, she looked great.

[Bryant Burnette 654]

Watched "Vengeance on Varos."

I actually kinda liked Colin Baker, and some of the story is okay, but Perri is an awful companion being played by an awful actress. Even worse is the alien slug creature, or whatever the heck that thing is supposed to be; it was so bad that I would have to say that there is virtually no chance of me ever watching these episodes again, even though they were mostly okay.

[Greg1138 3]

For anyone interested - July's Doctor Who Prom (which was fantastic) gets the edited-for-telly treatment on New Years Day on BBC1 thanks to Auunty Beeb....first TV showing....

Next Doctor - to be truthful, I am still undecided about it all...

[pixie_twinkle 48]

Watched "Vengeance on Varos."

I actually kinda liked Colin Baker, and some of the story is okay, but Perri is an awful companion being played by an awful actress. Even worse is the alien slug creature, or whatever the heck that thing is supposed to be; it was so bad that I would have to say that there is virtually no chance of me ever watching these episodes again, even though they were mostly okay.

I rewatched it recently too. Baker is really growing on me with time. Peri I quite like (for typically "bloke-ish" reasons), although the opening scene between the Doctor and Peri is cringeworthy ("You even burnt the dinner..." yuck!). Sil (the slug creature) was a truly dreadful enemy. I find his segments to be extremely embarassing. Unfortunately he was popular enough with the show's writers that he makes a return appearance in "The Trial of a Timelord". God knows why.

The Christmas special this year I really enjoyed. It's probably my favourite of the Christmas specials to date. "The Christmas Invasion" had far too little of the Doctor in it. The last two (Runaway Bride, and Voyage f the Damned) were terrific entertainment, but ultimately too fast-paced and action-packed to really draw me into a good story. "The Next Doctor" felt far more intimate and Christmassy than the previous specials. Morrissey was excellent, and the whole thing really did feel like a typical "Who" episode, which I liked. I still feel that the best Who Christmas episode was "The Unquiet Dead", which was actually broadcast in late spring!

[John Crichton 4]

Voyage of the Damned is way better than it should be. It's pretty much Doctor Who's stab at a high budget, high effects summer blockbuster, and they pull it off with considerable style.

My only problem with The Runaway Bride is the woman that plays the Racknoss Empress. She's so horribly over the top that it ruins every scene she's in. It's like she thought Christmas=pantomime. I'm a huge Series 4 Donna fan so it's a great story for the start of that too.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I miss Donna.

[John Crichton 4]

She was one of the greatest companions ever, new or classic series. But I'd still rank her behind Rose, who was really something special, particularly with Tennant.

[John Crichton 4]

Tomorrow's (Saturday) the day: the 11th Doctor will be revealed during a special Confidential on BBC 1.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7807742.stm

[Richard Penna 3,694]

I had an inkling it wouldn't be Morrissey.

And I think RTD got so obsessed with finding a clever story for him than doing anything interesting with the cybermen.

[Quintus 5,399]

And the new Doctor is......... some dude.

For all you foreigners here, I've never heard of him either. In Britain he's an unknown.

Profile

Doctor Who

[John Crichton 4]

Well I figured it'd be someone out of the blue that wasn't on anyone's lists, and I was right. But I wasn't expecting someone this...young. A Doctor younger than I am. Especially strange since Moffatt's on record as preferring an older Doctor.

I expect this announcement to be met with extremely negative reaction and criticism, but I'll give the kid a chance.

[Greg1138 3]

I expect this announcement to be met with extremely negative reaction and criticism

Me too - which is a shame, since already I think he's absolutely bloody perfect.....

[John Crichton 4]

Good, I trust your opinion much more than the faceless internet rabble.

[Hitch 57]

Only time will tell. Let's not judge him until his first appearance is aired on TV.

[Quintus 5,399]

The real fans will give him a chance, but the knee-jerk reaction by most will be negative. It is up to him and the writers to prove themselves.

Kudos must at least be awarded to the the producers for their apparent willingness to take a risk. And big one at that.

[John Crichton 4]

What are his geek credentials? Can he hold is own in a Who conversation with uber Who geeks Tennant or Moffatt?

[Hitch 57]

David (edited: Neil) Tennant will be a hard act to follow but I'm sure he will do fine. We'll have to judge Chris Pine as James T. Kirk first and be ready to throw our shoes at the big screen.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

Neil Tennant will be a hard act to follow but I'm sure he will do fine.

Well yeah, the Pet Shop Boys did sell a hell of a lot of records.

[Quintus 5,399]

[Hitch 57]

One little gay mistake......LOL....now edited.

[Quintus 5,399]

It's a sin!

[Richard Penna 3,694]

When they first cut to that shot of him, I spent several seconds in a kind of whoooo's that? manner, before the name came up and I realised he really was an unknown.

I look forward to seeing him in action

[Hitch 57]

It's a sin!

The west end boys will see to me later

[Quintus 5,399]

And so will the Prince of Darkness.

[Hitch 57]

I've had him already. Next.

[Greg1138 3]

I remember him from The Ruby And The Smoke - and am sure I saw that political jobber he was in - but his look in that final shot and the glint....I'm serious - he's convinced me already! Good luck to him...

[Quintus 5,399]

Hate to sound like a party pooper, but that final shot of him bugged me...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

BRING BACK TOM BAKER, ALL IS FORGIVEN!!!

[Charlie Brigden 7]

He looks a bit like the prosthetic Tarkin from ROTS.