WOTW: Another approach to atonality

[scissorhands 16]

This idea came to my mind the last time I was listening to "The Lost World", one of his finest atonal achievements.

Seeing the evolution of Williams during the last decade, he seems to prefer the search of new narrative forms ("The Lost World", "Saving Private Ryan", "A.I.", "Minority Report" and "Attack of the Clones, and probably" Revenge of the Sith") rather than the conformist effectiveness that so many people seem to yearn for and what could only mean the stagnation of the artist.

To be coherent, I believe that in "War of the Worlds" Williams is going to explore the atonality in many forms in order to represent the terror in different ways. There may be people who are still waiting for a big theme that is repeated over and over again, but I don't believe this is the case. We've already seen that many times before.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It's possible.

I hope Williams will be able to put some real terror into this.

Something like The Abduction Of Barry.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Unfortunately, I find The Abduction of Barry lacks something as a listening experience. However, within the movie it is an excellent cue.

- Marc, who'll wait and see. As always.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I'm sure it gave KM nightmares as a child.

[fommes 154]

If it's anything even just a little resembling The Dementors Converge, I'll be a happy man.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It needs to be more terrifying.

While The Dementors Converge is good enough for a scene were phony Ringwraits get their asses kicked, I want something trule scary for an alien invasion.

[fommes 154]

Yes, but on the other hand it doesn't have to be atonal like The Abduction of Barry in order to be scary.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

True, but that style worked incredible well with the subject matter.

Since spielberg and williams are (to some degree) returning to that subject matter, I would not mind williams expanding on it a bit.

[Sandor 798]

Oh please! Not another Minority Report!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Oh no, heavens I do not want John to do another one of those.

If that is the case then It would be better if Illayaraja scored it, or Zimmer.

[A24 4,357]

John Williams does not write atonal music.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Another rock solid comment from Alex, that cannot be argued with.

Right?

[A24 4,357]

If I could carve my words in stone, I would.

But for now this board will do.

[Lurker 5]

Neil

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

So John Williams in his entire career has never written atonal music and he never will?

Are these the runes you wish to commit to stone, oh Moses?

[A24 4,357]

He might've flirted with it in parts of Images. Atonal music is music that follows the 12-tone system, Schoenberg, that sorta stuff.

[Sandor 798]

Atonal music is music that follows the 12-tone system, Schoenberg, that sorta stuff.

Check the definition dude! HAHAHAHA

(I'm bluffing here. Damn! I wish I knew if Alex was right or not!)

[A24 4,357]

I am right about it. Jeshopk will explain it further. Take it away, Jessy!

[Jeshopk 8]

I am right about it. Jeshopk will explain it further. Take it away, Jessy!

He doesn't write strict 12 tone music (even in essay for strings and flute concerto), but he does write some atonal music, that is music without a definite scale or tonal root or center. There's some of this in Close Encounters, Born on the 4th of July, AI...

But he has yet to write an atonal score like Planet of the Apes. His atonal cues do come into his tonal scores, and within the cues, there are often moments of tonality. They are not 12 tone. Some layers might be 12 tone, but not others at the same time.

Even Images was tonal/atonal...

But as for your statement "John Williams doesn't write atonal music"... That is incorrect if you consider individual cues music.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Are you unable to formulate your opinion by yourself?

Or are you worried that words so wise and learned will not be understood by us lesser men?

[A24 4,357]

John Williams doesn't write atonal music but occasionally flirts with it or use dissonants. If he wrote atonal music Joe and Stefancos wouldn't be posting here.

AI? Where?

Jerry Goldsmith's Music For Orchestra is a 12-tone piece.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

That's a great piece.

[A24 4,357]

Is that you, Stefancos?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I love Goldsmith's experimenting with his orchestral voice, Planet Of The Apes, Alien, Music For Orchestra, TMP and Poltergeist.

Real masterfull and gripping music.

Boggles the mind sometimes.

[Justin 2]

This thread is like a chat transcript.

Do carry on.

Justin - Who offers no personal opinion and no relative data, in this thread, whatsoever.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

As opposed to all you other posts?

[SturgisPodmore 0]

The Abduction of Barry is so creepy; I love how it sounds like voices at one point.

~Sturgis

[TownerFan 4,991]

I expect Williams returning to his dark textural mode of The Lost World and Minority Report for this movie, with a hint of Close Encounters as well. Probably there will be a scary evil motif for the aliens (sort of "twisted" version of the CE3K motif) and a larger, bold theme for the humans. There will be space for an intimate, lyrical theme for Tom Cruise's character and his family as well.

If the movie will have a kind of "documentary" style, as said by Spielberg, then I hope the music will be used sparingly and spotted carefully. Of course, it's known Spielberg like to have lots of music in his movies (with few exceptions), but I hope he and Williams will go for a bit different road this time.

But I will not complain if there will be a load of great music, btw!

[scissorhands 16]

Probably there will be a scary evil motif for the aliens (sort of "twisted" version of the CE3K motif).

What about the raptors' theme from "Jurassic Park"?

and a larger, bold theme for the humans.

Sean's theme?

There will be space for an intimate, lyrical theme for Tom Cruise's character and his family as well.

Yeah, you might be right. Anyway, I remember "The Lost World" already had the family subject in the movie (father - girlfriend - daughter) and Williams didn't write any theme for them. But "War of the Worlds" will be pretty different, yeah

[Miguel Andrade 1,267]

John Williams does not write atonal music.

For the record, in an old interview, Williams stated that is only atonal score was for a 1972 tv film "The Screaming Woman".

Miguel

[scissorhands 16]

AI? Where?

"Replicas"? I dunno.

[Jeshopk 8]

The Abduction of Barry is so creepy; I love how it sounds like voices at one point.  

~Sturgis

Those are voices

[SturgisPodmore 0]

Oh.

Nice one, Mike.

Next you'll be telling me Duel of the Fates was real choir, too.

~Sturgis

[King Mark 3,631]

John Williams does not write atonal music.

For the record, in an old interview, Williams stated that is only atonal score was for a 1972 tv film "The Screaming Woman".

Miguel

Nobody has ever heard that score or seen this movie,so there is no proof of that.

K.m.

[A24 4,357]

John Williams does not write atonal music.

For the record, in an old interview, Williams stated that is only atonal score was for a 1972 tv film "The Screaming Woman".

I never even heard of this! Bring it to me!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It does mean that you were presumtious when you made the following statement:

John Williams does not write atonal music.

I cannot say that I am surprised though....

[MSM 126]

John Williams doesn't write atonal music but occasionally flirts with it or use dissonants.

His concertos and concert pieces are atonal sometimes.

[A24 4,357]

It does mean that you were presumtious when you made the following statement:

John Williams does not write atonal music.

I cannot say that I am surprised though....

Don't be silly, reread the thread. Some thought he wrote atonal music all the time: atonal this, atonal that. Those works aren't atonal. Oh sure, according to Miguel he maybe did it once but nobody has ever heard it. Does that mean he's THE atonal composer you all make him out to be? I wrote one song in my life, does that make me a singer songwriter? Hardly. My statement was dead on. Outside a few occasional flirts, Williams does not write atonal music. The exception proves the rule!

But most of all, Stefancos, stop being so small.

----------------

Alex Cremers

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Look, you have been proven wrong.

Nobody is flawless, not even AlexCremers.

Admit it and move on.

[A24 4,357]

Look, you have been proven wrong.

Nobody is flawless, not even AlexCremers.

Admit it and move on.

There, you're doing it again. You're being small again, Stefancos. I already told you three times he "flirts" with it. That allows for a margin of error. The exception proves the rule! Send me the proof on CDR!

Stop being so childish.

----------------

Alex Cremers

[Elmo Lewis 6]

Nobody is flawless, not even AlexCremers.

I thought Thou were flawless, but then Thou made that statement and now it's all contradictory.

[Jeshopk 8]

Oh.  

 

Nice one, Mike.  

Next you'll be telling me Duel of the Fates was real choir, too.  

~Sturgis

Let's hope its a sense of humor folks!

You do know Duel of the Fates is real choir......don't you?

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

LOL Yes, I'm sure that's just sarcasm and not an honest question...or at least, I hope. 8O

Ray Barnsbury

[ChrisAfonso 188]

Well, the 4th mvt. of 5 Sacred Trees sounds prettay atonal to me, though...

[djc242 0]

As it's been said, I think what shows JW's craft is his ability to interweave the two styles so seemlessly. The concert suite from CE3K [JW Greatest Hits] is a fantastic example - kind of a retro-musical timeline [schoenberg to "When You Wish Upon a Star" to Strauss]. Almost any action cue from Star Wars or Indiana Jones [see "The Pen is Mightier Than the Sword" around 1:21] also uses both musical dialects. As a composer myself, I like to keep all musical styles available, should they be required. For film scoring, that is far more important due to the constant flux of things.

All tonal music is not "good" and all atonal music is not "bad," assuming those terms weren't subjective. How a composer handles their craft is the most important issue, I think.

[SturgisPodmore 0]

8O  

Let's hope its a sense of humor folks!

You do know Duel of the Fates is real choir......don't you?

Yes, I do. 8O

~Sturgis

[Jeshopk 8]

I only ask because even my own father, a musician, once asked whether Jurassic Park was 100 percent synth, when I was listening to it.

[SturgisPodmore 0]

8O

~Sturgis

[Miguel Andrade 1,267]

John Williams does not write atonal music.

For the record, in an old interview, Williams stated that is only atonal score was for a 1972 tv film "The Screaming Woman".

Miguel

Nobody has ever heard that score or seen this movie,so there is no proof of that.

K.m.

And are you sure that no one ever heard the score or seen the film? Do you have any proof of that?

Miguel

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I can honestly say I don't have a clue to what anyones' talking about.

Joe, who doesn't know atonal from dissonant