is john williams really as good as a real composer

[Maraquesh 0]

hello everyone how are you all doing

i'm kinda new to this board so i hope you'll all give me a chance here.

i was just looking at harry potter 3 and i ran onto the internet right after watching to look for a john williams messageboard. looks like i'm in the right place!

anyway, i have also backtracked some of williams' career and am aware now he's done a lot of other films like Star Wars and batman, so you don't have to treat me as some new guy who doesn't know anything.

when i was watching harry potter, i was wondering what the film would have been like when a real composer had taken the job. don't get me wrong, williams writes okay tunes, but composers like Tom Petty or Bryan Adams would totally make a film like this rock. i don't understand why movies so often use those simple tunes, not real music. i mean, anyone can write simple tunes, even my baby brother. and films that have music by real composers such as Lionking or Spirit are much better. like the music when mufasa dies in the Lionking, so beautiful, only someone with a real heart like Elton could have written that. But perhaps Tom (petty, we're on a name to name basis, i love the fellow and he loves me!!!!!!) would have done so much better.

so my question, is john williams really good, as good as real composers like Tom or bryan. i wonder. i really wonder.

into the great wide open....

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

:?

[MAG-SI 10]

Thank you for enlighten me! Yes THE REAL MUSIC composers are also: Brooks & Dunn, Kenny Chesney, Dixie Chicks and many many more!!!

[jamesie 1]

Uhhhh?! Please, write a 2 hr score for the next harry potter movie. full score please. I want to hear those simple tunes. Please write the equivalent of ET, Jurassic Park, Hook, etc... Please. I'm talking writing music thats good and full; as good as beethoven. You do that, and you're point mite have relevancy. I think your dealio is that you like slightly different music than John Williams writes and can't see the beautiful complexity of all of his works. And I want a definition of a real composer, besides your baby brother.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

anyway, i have also backtracked some of williams' career and am aware now he's done a lot of other films like Star Wars and batman, so you don't have to treat me as some new guy who doesn't know anything.  

Half right.

[Bowie 45]

This HAS to be a joke. Joe?

[A24 4,345]

This HAS to be a joke. Joe?

Yep! It's JoeinAr! It has to be!

[Magnus 0]

wow, lol

[Maraquesh 0]

first of all, MAG-SI thanks for sharing my point. the artists you name are not as good as Tom though. I'd reccomend you listen to 'wildflowers' from 1994.

second, beethoven writes CLASSICAL (!!!) music, which is always without lyrics, so how could anyone in his right mind call that a composer. but don't get me wrong, i'm not here to bash beethoven or williams, because i think they do write funny tunes, it's just not in the same league with many rockstars that are out there. i mean, i think many films are really hurt by music that you hear a lot, without lyrics or drums, just violins and flutes and stuff. whereas in a film like spiderman 2, a lot of good rocksongs are used and it just works better because those songs are written by real composers and not moviemusic-makers. the latter are mostly just not good at making up good melodies or songs.

i don't play an instrument but i could write lyrics for a harry potter song that would truly rock. maybe i'll ask Tom to play the music! would that be something!!!!!!!!

anyway, i am NOT joe, and i find it really weird that someone would say this is a joke. since when is giving your opinion a joke? or am i just opening eyes?

Into the great wide open...

[Jacck 23]

POST DELETED BY MODERATOR

From the rules:

"01 - Personal attacks or offensive language will not be allowed."

[Caldeira 0]

Thank you Maraquesh, whoever you are, I needed that.

[Greg1138 3]

Oh my - this is starting to appear genuine........check date.....not April 1st......Maraquesh - you need to open your eyes a little......perhaps come back to this board when you have the FAINTEST IDEA what you're talking about........everyone here values others opinions, but yours need some work.....

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I'm sorry... what?

BTW, Danny Elfman wrote the score to Batman. And your Beethoven comment is the funniest thing I've read on these boards in a long time. LOL

[ChrisAfonso 186]

Feeding time...

[MeBeJedi 0]

Actually, Williams is more of a poser, than an actual composer.

"i don't understand why movies so often use those simple tunes, not real music."

Yeah, when you consider how he takes music and simply reduces it to the least common denominator, he's more like a decomposer.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

No, John's not, he's a plagerist, I mean listen to Star Wars, you can hear Holst's Planet, and thats just the start. He steals from "real" composers, and he steals from other film composers, and he even steals from himself(HookalaLovethemefromAOTCanyone).

He's almost a fraud.

btw, the person who posted this thread is not me, really.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Just like Jamie Horner....

[MagicRat75 0]

is there a John Williams fan network for adults?

[JoeinAR 1,949]

This HAS to be a joke. Joe?

Yep! It's JoeinAr! It has to be!

ok after reading the first post, I am now insulted by this.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Also, it was not Elton John who wrote the score to Disney's The Lion King. It was Hans Zimmer.

You seem to have confused composers with songwriters.

And you're ignorant.

Good day.

- Marc

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

This is clearly not JoeinAr's work.

I mean, no one even died in it....

[Henry B 50]

You're right, Maraquesh, John Williams does write "simple" tunes. After all, it's much harder to write out lines for two guitars, drums, and a keyboard than piccolos, flutes, oboes, english horns, clarinets, bassoons, contrabassoons, french horns, trumpets, trombones, tubas, glockenspiels, celestas, harps, pianos, full percussion, violins, violas, cellos, and double basses. Prisoner of Azkaban is no exception to the "simple tune" category. If you have your DVD with you, watch the scene where a hummingbird flies across the Hogwarts grounds on the morning following the students' arrival. Hear that piccolo solo there? Piece of shit! It's nothing compared to the melodies or chord progressions, such as I-IV-V-I, in rock songs.

[ChrisAfonso 186]

You can't compare Williams to a master like Horner! Seriously. I mean, I'm just amazed how Horner manages to write the same glorious music for EVERY film he scores! Williams is just so unfocused, that he can't write his music more than once, so we have to adapt to really different music each time. I mean, come on, that's just too much unwelcome diversion if I want to focus on the movie.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yeah, Horner is the true genius.

But I think J-Will is envious of him.

[Henry B 50]

You can't compare Williams to a master like Horner! Seriously. I mean, I'm just amazed how Horner manages to write the same glorious music for EVERY film he scores! Williams is just so unfocused, that he can't write his music more than once, so we have to adapt to really different music each time. I mean, come on, that's just too much unwelcome diversion if I want to focus on the movie.

[jamesie 1]

Ok, let's just face it here, guys, we've ALL been proven wrong; thinking that John Williams is as good as he is. This guy knows what he's talking about, obviously. John W. can't write anything more than simple tunes. And when compared to a true king, James Horner, who writes THE most memorable, un-underscorey, unboring music in the world, John Williams just doesn't cut it. Horner> <Williams

[Composer_Fan 2]

Man, this post would have made an excellent April Fools joke! I'll have to keep that in mind for next year.....

[MeBeJedi 0]

"so we have to adapt to really different music each time. I mean, come on, that's just too much unwelcome diversion if I want to focus on the movie."

I've been saying that for years! Instead of composing new music, or even having to go through the trouble of choosing from the wide variety of existing songs for temp tracks, we should just come up a standard roster of songs to use in all films.

For example: All police chases in cars should play the Peter Gunn theme. If the chase is on foot or on an animal, they can use the William Tell overture (not from the beginning, though. ) Chases through the air (planes, superheroes, etc.) can use the "Flight of the Bumblebee".

Think of how quickly a film could be finished if we did this? Sure, all the chase scenes would be exactly the same length, but that would inspire each director to use more creative cinematography (or in Quentin Tarantino's case, more creative opening credits, since all films will have to start out with "Also Sprach Zarathustra".

[TIEfighter 0]

<insert offensive language here>

[SturgisPodmore 0]

Wow. This is probably one of our regulars playing a joke. Oh well.

hello everyone how are you all doing

Not good.

i hope you'll all give me a chance here.

Nope.

looks like i'm in the right place!

Nope.

i have also backtracked some of williams' career and am aware now he's done a lot of other films like Star Wars and batman.

John Williams has never scored anything remotely related to a Batman movie.

Here is a complete list of John Williams' film scores; the bold ones are well-known movies or scores, the underlined ones are upcoming:

Daddy-O; I Passed for White; Because They're Young; Stark Fear; Bachelor Pad; Secret Ways; Diamond Head; Gidget Goes to Rome; The Killers; None But the Brave; John Goldfarb, Please Come Home; The Katherine Reed Story; The Rare Breed; How to Steal a Million; Not With My Wife, You Don't!; Penelpope; The Plainsman; A Guide for the Married Man; Fitzwilly; Valley of the Dolls; Daddy's Gone A-Hunting; The Reivers; Story of a Woman; The Cowboys; The Poseden Adventure; Pete 'n Tillie; Images; The Screaming Woman; The Man Who Loved Cat Dancing; The Paper Chase; The Long Goodbey; Cinderella Liberty; Conrack; The Sugarland Express; Earthquake; The Towering Inferno; The Eiger Sanction; Jaws; Family Plot; The Missouri Breaks; Midway; Black Sunday; Star Wars; Close Encounters of the Third Kind; The Fury; Jaws 2; Superman-the Movie; Dracula; 1941; The Empire Strikes Back; Raiders of the Lost Ark; Heartbeeps; Yes, Giorgio; E.T. The Extra-Terrestrial; Mosingor; Return of the Jedi; Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom; The River; Space Camp; The Witches of Eastwick; Superman IV- The Quest For Peace; Empire of the Sun; The Accidental Tourist; Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade; Born on the Fourth of July; Always; Stanley and Iris; Presumed Innocent; Home Alone; Hook; JFK; Far and Away; Home Alone 2: Lost in New York; Jurassic Park; Schindler's List; Sabrina; Nixon; Sleepers; Rosewood; The Lost World: Jurassic Park; Seven Years in Tibet; Amistad; Saving Private Ryan; Stepmom; Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace; Angela's Ashes; The Patriot; A.I. Artificial Intelligence; Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone; Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones; Minority Report; Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets; Catch Me If You Can; Harry Potter and the Prosoner of Azkaban; The Terminal; Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith; War of the Worlds.

When any rock stars have put forward so many albums, I'll agree with you.

you don't have to treat me as some new guy who doesn't know anything.

Watch me.

composers like Tom Petty or Bryan Adams would totally make a film like this rock.

I could be wrong, but I don't think many rock stars actually compose their own songs.

i don't understand why movies so often use those simple tunes, not real music.

Because all the instruments of an orchestra were aound centuries before electric guitars, drumsets, and keyboards.

and films that have music by real composers such as Lionking or Spirit are much better.

Which was better recieved: Spirit: Stallion of the Cimaron, or Star Wars? Which has music that will be remembered for at least a century, perhaps several?

like the music when mufasa dies in the Lionking, so beautiful, only someone with a real heart like Elton could have written that.

Film music is beautiful, too. Each composer has a unique style with which one can identify. Certain film composers have certain specialties, too.

(petty, we're on a name to name basis, i love the fellow and he loves me!!!!!!)

I don't believe you.

into the great wide open....

What is this? Some kind of "rock on" thing your best friend Tom Petty says?

Point being:

Don't try to enter a John Williams fan network and tell us he's not good enough to produce "real" music. Williams produces, on average, between two and four scores each year. Most rock artists do one album every two or three years. John Williams is 73 years old, and still composing wonderful music, which is quite an achievemnet. Music is anythnig that has a beat and a tune, so rock, pop, classical, film score, heavy metal, etc. are all real music. Most of us here have open minds and are willing to listen to different opinions. If you wanted to ask the question properly, you should have asked "Would certain films be suited better with rock/pop songs instead of an orchestral score?" You would have gotten an intelligent conversation on the topic. However, you have ruined it by stating that John Williams cannot compose "real" music as well as any rock artists. Nice try, but we're not going to budge. We will all anxiously await the day you will simply forget this and stop trying to convince us that the man we adore for his musical cpabilities does not compose real music.

~Sturgis

[John Crichton 4]

Gotta give this guy credit: best start of a thread since the infamous Illayaraja. But a lot more funny.

[SturgisPodmore 0]

Well, that guy was incomprehensible and talking about a man none of us have ever heard of (although I wasn't here until the day that thread was locked). I say they're both ridiculous.

~Sturgis

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Remember Sturgis, Williams only composed 2 new themes for Superman IV. Also, you may want to change Star Wars to bold.

- Marc, who thinks the Ilarayaja may have been funnier, but this thread's pretty close.

[Justin 2]

like the music when mufasa dies in the Lionking, so beautiful, only someone with a real heart like Elton could have written that.

I agree 100%!

Too bad Hans Zimmer wrote it!

Justin - Who thinks this is the newest best thread ever.

[HPFAN_2 0]

WOW!

[Greg1138 3]

Justin - Who thinks this is the newest best thread ever.

[Henry B 50]

Music is anythnig that has a beat and a tune

Hey, what about rhythmically-undefined atonal music?

[nightscape94 965]

i have also backtracked some of williams' career and am aware now he's done a lot of other films like Star Wars and batman, so you don't have to treat me as some new guy who doesn't know anything.

riiiiiiiiiiight.....

I refused to believe that this is a real post. The above quote is the linchpin. No one can possibly be this ridiculous and spend the time to write such nonsense. Who ever it was that wrote it is clever and quite funny. So my hat's off to you sir or ma'am. That being said, I beg of you all, let this post fade away into the obscurity of the JWfan archives.

Tim, who understands the irony that by posting to this thread, i'm keeping it alive....

[Lurker 5]

i have also backtracked some of williams' career and am aware now he's done a lot of other films like Star Wars and batman, so you don't have to treat me as some new guy who doesn't know anything.

Yes, we do.

Neil

[HPFAN_2 0]

Hey lets not patronize the guy, he has a right to his opinion even if it is stupid. Let us embrace his thoughts and convictions and not insult him with condescending remarks. Let us discuss the topic and give forth our own opinions.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Hey lets not patronize the guy, he has a right to his opinion even if it is stupid. Let us embrace his thoughts and convictions and not insult him with condescending remarks. Let us discuss the topic and give forth our own opinions

ok HPfan, but no we don't have to do that, sorry but he made statements of assumed facts, so we can take him to task for it. We do not have to embrace him, because we reject his comments, they are ignorant and illogical, but I truly believe he did this as a farce. We have discussed the topic and given our own superior knowledge and opinions grounded in facts.

[King Mark 3,631]

Obviously it's a troll post to infuriate us.,I read the first post and' I'm not wasting my time reading further.And this guy deserves what's coming to him if he decided to write this here.He can't be considered a JWfan with a "different" point of view IMO.

K.M.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

I agree - the post is too much the antithesis of everything we do here to be genuine. I hope.

Ray Barnsbury

[David Coscina 3]

Anyone who thinks Tom Petty is a better composer than John Williams doesn't warrant the time for an informed response. Or any response at all. I agree that this guy is trolling....it's not even worth getting upset with stupidity presented on such an epic scale.

[THEfranz_conrad 0]

Hilarious. Amazed that so many fail to see the obvious humour here. Which only makes it funnier of course.

[Maraquesh 0]

I could be wrong, but I don't think many rock stars actually compose their own songs.

you're wrong. you're very wrong.

[flytrumpet 0]

is there a John Williams fan network for adults?

Some mornings,when having a nice coffee,i wonder the exact same thing.Some of the topics and comments on this board are sometimes totally absurd and useless.Thankfully some topics are relevant to John Williams,and some people are actually helpful.

[Simon R. 10]

Maraquesh, you may not be a troll, but your IQ is obviously not so high, and I am concerned about your mental well-being

[Composer_Fan 2]

I can't believe this thread is on its way to reach its 2nd page....

~Tyler, who just brought us one post closer to 2nd pagedom.....shoot!

[Maraquesh 0]

2 pages of selfawareness, eye-openers. wow.

i have some more questions by the way. if moviemusic-makers are really better than Petty or other true musicians, than why are there no moviemusic in any top 40?? why dont moviemusic-makers win any awards, like mtv awards??? why doesn't anyone know any moviemusic-maker names (except for the handful of you guys??) while true artists/composers like Petty are known and loved by billions throughout the world????