Michael Giacchino's Star Trek Into Darkness

[gkgyver 1,645]

That obscure composer we made a subforum for.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jonesy 55]

Apparently, this clip features Harrison's Theme.

[Delorean90 42]

It says "This video is private."

[Jonesy 55]

Fixed.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

John Woo, one very terrible director, maker of crap like face off and that other travolta crap film about the bombers.

John who?

Karol

It's spelled Woo!

[Jay 37,372]

Hmm, interesting theme. Not terribly exciting, or hummable. Maybe it's a grower.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Sounds like the devil's in the details with this one. Sadly, the devil can't be heard in shitty cell phone video.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Which is exactly why I didn't even bother listening to it.

[Brónach 1,302]

I found that cue pretty exciting.

Maybe Gia, if not Beltrami, could have made something interesting for Pacific Rim. Pity we got Djawadi instead.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

I wanna bring attention to this comment by Giacchino, and how it completely separates him (and his entire generation of composers) from the likes of Williams and Goldsmith:

Re: the Courage theme:

It could have been that we would use not any of it at all–Paramount said ‘do anything you want.’ But it was important to us to use Alexander Courage’s music. If you take everything else away from Star Trek, what you have left is that theme which is so recognizable and wonderful. We wanted to use it so the question was where were we going to use it. It can’t get used in the film very easily. If you know the film the storyline doesn’t allow for that–it is kind of a happy theme and there aren’t many happy moments–but the end we thought we could do it in a huge way like we have never heard it before. A celebration of the Star Trek franchise. So we chose to use it at the end as a sort of celebratory moment.

Williams and Goldsmith could have done it. They do this to their themes ALL the time. They take them out of their standard context and breathe new life into them with new moods.

Hell, Goldsmith managed to take the Courage theme and make it a little sad and ominous in TMP, the one time it shows up.

I'm a huge Giacchino fan. But that's utter BS.

[stewdog1 50]

I wanna bring attention to this comment by Giacchino, and how it completely separates him (and his entire generation of composers) from the likes of Williams and Goldsmith:

Re: the Courage theme:

It could have been that we would use not any of it at all–Paramount said ‘do anything you want.’ But it was important to us to use Alexander Courage’s music. If you take everything else away from Star Trek, what you have left is that theme which is so recognizable and wonderful. We wanted to use it so the question was where were we going to use it. It can’t get used in the film very easily. If you know the film the storyline doesn’t allow for that–it is kind of a happy theme and there aren’t many happy moments–but the end we thought we could do it in a huge way like we have never heard it before. A celebration of the Star Trek franchise. So we chose to use it at the end as a sort of celebratory moment.

Williams and Goldsmith could have done it. They do this to their themes ALL the time. They take them out of their standard context and breathe new life into them with new moods.

Hell, Goldsmith managed to take the Courage theme and make it a little sad and ominous in TMP, the one time it shows up.

I'm a huge Giacchino fan. But that's utter BS.

To an extent you have a point. However, as you pointed out, Goldsmith only did this once in all of his chances. There is probably a good reason. While the theme is excellent, it is not very flexible. Like say The Force theme for example.

[Brónach 1,302]

If Goldsmith only did that once I can accept Giacchino not doing it much either.

You don't to reference that theme itself. There are other possible musical ideas in TOS.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Bu-bu-but....Williams turned Vader's Theme into Anakin's Theme.

Surely there must be a way here?

[Brónach 1,302]

Did they do this in TOS?

[KK 3,307]

As a theme, that wasn't much. But it was a cool cue I suppose.

[Brónach 1,302]

I don't ask so much of themes as I do ask music to carry some weight of some sort. In that sense I like the cue even though the quality is low.

As a theme, that wasn't much.

Are those minuscule themes in The Hobbit "much" enough?

[KK 3,307]

Well, in my opinion, it's easier to come up with a simple theme and back it up in varying instrumental colours and orchestrations. But to do the same with a strong theme is arguably more difficult. The likes of Williams succeed at doing this quite often. Yet in today's generation of popular composers, despite the strength of guys like Giacchino, don't seem to churn out as strong melodic ideas as we used to hear.

[Anthony 572]

Watch the full piece here:

[KK 3,307]

As a theme, that wasn't much.

Are those minuscule themes in The Hobbit "much" enough?

They sound more expansive and seem to have more of a melodic core than this one. And Shore's primary villain themes are more prominent than this. Of course I wasn't exactly overjoyed with some of the ideas in that film, but knowing Shore and what he tends to do with his themes, they still leave me excited for what's to come.

[Brónach 1,302]

Where villainnous music in concerned I find that whole piece from STID to have more of a punch than half of the army of rising brass chords from the Hobbit.

But I know they're going for quite different styles.

[KK 3,307]

But I know they're going for quite different styles. Shore isn't going to have a sort of pseudo-minimalistic marimba repeating in cycles anytime soon.

At least not in Middle-Earth...I hope.

Shore has more dramatic/operatic approach to LotR (hence his sometimes overwhelming reliance on rising brass progressions, which I personally enjoy). Giacchino on the other hand takes on a more stylistic approach for Star Trek.

Both methods are perfect matches for their films.

I still prefer Shore's more primitive, deliciously evil villainous themes/motifs than a three-note progression with some cool Giacchino ornamentation whirling in the background.

[Wojo 2,453]

A big old meh.

[Jim Ware 526]

There are some other tidbits of information in the pre-concert talks -

(Jim Ware cameo at around 22:40)

[Brónach 1,302]

I still prefer Shore's more primitive, deliciously evil villainous themes/motifs than a three-note progression with some cool Giacchino ornamentation whirling in the background.

Depends on what is for. Now that I think about it, I find it hard to say what I prefer in general. I like that everything exist so I can listen to it depending on my mod or the soundscape I prefer for the moment.

By the way, I love Sauron's theme from LOTR (I'm not sure if it'c called that). That crazy manic one with daa, daaa, daa. daradará... Probably among my favourite ones in LOTR.

[Faleel 5,359]

By the way, I love Sauron's theme from LOTR (I'm not sure if it'c called that).

The Evil of the Ring (Sauron)

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Faleel 5,359]

Its better than Jason's "bumbumbumBUM!"

[crocodile 8,018]

Tralalala was my favourite theme from LOTR.

Karol

[Brónach 1,302]

As for the Giacchino piece above, it does sound like sort of sci-fi thriller (or at least that's what I want to hear in it right now). It makes me think on something like the Discovery arriving to Jupiter in 2001.

Honestly, your Sauron's theme of choice might be a tad overblown for characters like John Harrison or the Admiral guy.

By the way, I love Sauron's theme from LOTR (I'm not sure if it'c called that).

The Evil of the Ring (Sauron)

Ahá, thanks. For me it was always Sauron's/Mordor theme.

[KK 3,307]

As for the Giacchino piece above, it does sound like sort of sci-fi thriller (or at least that's what I want to hear in it right now). It makes me think on something like the Discovery arriving to Jupiter in 2001.

Honestly, your Sauron's theme of choice might be a tad overblown for characters like John Harrison or the Admiral guy.

By the way, I love Sauron's theme from LOTR (I'm not sure if it'c called that).

The Evil of the Ring (Sauron)

Ahá, thanks. For me it was always Sauron's/Mordor theme.

I'm not asking for Harrison to get something like Sauron's theme. Stylistically what Giacchino seems to have written will probably fit perfectly. But that doesn't make me wish any less that there was more of a melody.

[Ollie 1,059]

I found that cue pretty exciting.

Maybe Gia, if not Beltrami, could have made something interesting for Pacific Rim. Pity we got Djawadi instead.

There's still Godzilla. Maybe we'll get lucky and get a good composer for that one.

[Henry B 50]

I really like this. There's a sense of discomfort and psychosis. Not just straight forward evil.

[Ollie 1,059]

I don't know how it will fit in the film yet but I like the music.

[Brónach 1,302]

It sounds but subtle and thriller-like, but also catastrophic.

As for the fact that it's four notes, whatever. I'm a fan of The Lost World, and it also had a four note thing to it. And it ruled!

Besides this idea, in the score there'll also be music for some aliens (presumably the Klingons), for some Admiral character, a more personal version of the Kirk/Enterprise theme.

I would have liked some idea for McCoy but I don't know if that'll be there.

I think it'll be an entertaining score at the very least.

[crocodile 8,018]

"So the music is quite different. It is quite darker. It is more internal. It is not as celebratory as [star Trek 2009] is in many moments." Giacchino talks about his new score.

Karol

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

For a minute there I thought Giacchino said this score was less "cerebral" than the last one.

[luke905 18]

After several listens I like more and more.

It's a very mature theme: sounds inevitable and ominous, but at the same time subtle and psychological.

A different approach to the roaring theme of Nero for the previous films and in line with the statements made by the composer about the darker aspect of the new score.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

I'm really liking the full version Anthony posted. Having the rest changes my interpretation of the theme.

Good stuff!

[Jay 37,372]

I can't wait till I'm not at work to listen to the whole thing.

Didn't realize the earlier video posted wasn't the whole thing?

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Nope, it's missing all the juicy textural build up.

[Jay 37,372]

Cool. I'll post my thoughts once I get to hear it. Can't wait for the OST CD, less than a month to go! (Though, it will likely be up on iTunes before the CDs ships)

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

I hope not. I remember I liked Super 8 so much I bought it on iTunes while waiting for my CD to ship.

But I rationalized it as...it was a musical drought so I was supporting good music.

[Jay 37,372]

Every single Varese CD shows up on iTunes before the release date, it's been that way for a few years now. I don't expect STID to be any different.

[crocodile 8,018]

It would be easy to dismiss John Harrison's theme as simplistic, but I have to say this suite is quite effective. It conveys a similar bitter feeling to that of Shinzon's theme in Star Trek: Nemesis end credits. Could go either way from here.

Karol

[Brónach 1,302]

It would be easy to dismiss John Harrison's theme as simplistic,

The full theme has like, twenty something notes. At the beginning of the piece, it's merely two, and then Gia adds until the full statement.

[KK 3,307]

20 something notes? It's still 3-4 notes, the rest is ornamentation.

[Brónach 1,302]

For you. I still hear a satisfying melody. I don't just take the general outline of it in four chords and go "omg it's just four chords".

The part where's it's six notes has interesting moods.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

20 something notes? It's still 3-4 notes, the rest is ornamentation.

If we're going to count like that, Yoda's theme is also 4 notes.

For ye who want to count notes: The most note-y version of the theme seems to be at 3:36-3:58 (in the 11 minute video). That's also my favorite part of the whole piece.

[KK 3,307]

I wasn't counting notes, nor was my intention to put the theme's fault in number of notes (it's problems lie elsewhere). That's stupid.

Chaac said the theme was 20 notes. It wasn't 20 notes, I just wanted to point that out.