Anakin's Theme in ROTS

[Josh500 1,615]

According to Wikipedia Star Wars Music, there's a "single, tortured rendition" of it in Episode III. I haven't been able to find it yet. Does anyone know when it's heard?

[Romão 2,274]

Whe Anakin is on the balcony with Padme, I think. I know it is heard in the movie...somewhere.

[John Crichton 4]

Yes, it's in the unreleased middle portion of Anakin's Dream.

[Josh500 1,615]

All right, thanks!

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Well the scene definitely made me feel tortured.

[Datameister 2,044]

The scene, yes. But the music is pretty well written. A shame Mr. Wannenberg cut it out of the OST, really. But it rips pretty cleanly from the DVD.

And in other news, it majorly pisses me off that Anakin's theme never got used except the once.

[Red 75]

Yeah, it was really a missed opportunity not to use it.

[Indiana_Fett 0]

Doesn't it also appear in 'Anakin's Betrayal'?

[John Crichton 4]

Doesn't it also appear in 'Anakin's Betrayal'?

Not that anybody's heard. Got a spot it might be?

[Indiana_Fett 0]

Hm. I don't have my OST. It's near the end, right after the unreleased bit, represented by six notes.

[Josh500 1,615]

Hm. I don't have my OST. It's near the end, right after the unreleased bit, represented by six notes.

Well, I don't know -- I don't hear it.

[Indiana_Fett 0]

Wait! I messed up here! I meant 'Anakin's Dark Deeds'! It's at 3:36 to 3:39.

[Datameister 2,044]

Nah, that's wishful thinking, IMO. The notes go V I III III IV V (A D F F G A), and that doesn't correspond to any part of Anakin's theme.

[Ollie 1,059]

I don't recall hearing Anakin's Theme on the ROTS soundtrack.

[V_For_Vendetta 0]

I think there is. It's just different from TPM. It plays right after Anakin wakes up from having the Nightmare about Padme and Padme following him to the other room and talking. There's also another one where he promises Padme that he'll not let her die and so forth.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Mark is correct.

[Vaderbait1 1]

One of my regrets about the prequels is that there wasn't more thematic continuity between them. I remember reading that WIlliams considered writing a new main theme, and I'm glad he didn't, but I think that using Anakin's Theme the way Luke's theme (the force theme) was used in the movies themselves would have been a good idea.

Imagine hearing ANakin's theme in a military march as he becomes more tortured, losing the innocence of the first one.

Episode I: Predominantly Anakin's Theme, a few mentions of the Force theme.

Episode II: Anakin's THeme prevalent, maybe mixed in with the Love Theme (as in the end of the album end credits), or when Anakin is alone, Force theme a little more apparent.

Episode III: Anakin's Theme early in the movie, but as it goes on IMperial March and Force theme become more prevalent (much like they did in the score).

I know it's no use crying over spilled milk, but it's the little things like this that could have endeared more people to the movies and characters. If you become familiar with music associated with each character, it does have an effect on how comfortable you get with them.

[GoodMusician 56]

well... I think worth noting is how Anakins theme is Vaders theme backwards...

Wouldn't it be interesting to have some sort of intermediate theme... as the notes flip... and the theme changes from one... into another...

That twisted EPisode II theme could have been just that...Anakin's theme slowly inverting into Vaders theme...

[Jacob 0]

Anyone know if Shmi's Theme is in ROTS at all? One part sounds real close, but I think I read an analysis that stated it wasn't it.

At about 2:12 on Palpatine's Teachings.

[GoodMusician 56]

darn you... making me pull out the OST again lol

seems pretty close... although one could argue that it's not definate.

I mean, JW uses Shmi's theme in Minority Report lol...

[Jacob 0]

darn you... making me pull out the OST again lol

I used the Force.

I mean, JW uses Shmi's theme in Minority Report lol...

Really? Guess I'll have to listen to MR now. Haven't heard it yet.

[GoodMusician 56]

Make me pull that ost out too lol.

Track 14 "Sean" by Agatha... it's right at the beginning... the first 40 seconds of that track

My point in saying that is that perhaps Shmi's theme is one of those things that John Williams just uses... and even if you hear something similar to it in ROTS, it may not be DIRECTLY related.

[Jacob 0]

Make me pull that ost out too lol.

The Force has a strong influence on the weak minded.

Yeah, I get that. I was listening to some of Hook a while back and noticed a bit of Across the Stars, but it was slower. That actually would be a bit of Hook in Across the Stars, but I'm more familiar with Star Wars.

I find it fascinating to pick out that kind of stuff.

[Vaderbait1 1]

You know, I heard the Hook connection when I first heard AOTC, but then, after I actually got the complete Hook score and listened to it a lot and got familiar with it, I just can't hear the connection anymore. I used to think it directly ripped off something from Hook, but now I can't find it, so I appreciate the Love Theme that much more now.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Anyone know if Shmi's Theme is in ROTS at all? One part sounds real close, but I think I read an analysis that stated it wasn't it.

At about 2:12 on Palpatine's Teachings.

It ias as far as im concerned

[John Crichton 4]

Yes, that's definately the first few notes of Shmi's theme.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

You see, i kno best!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The guy with the skull agrees to mee

[Ollie 1,059]

You know, I heard the Hook connection when I first heard AOTC, but then, after I actually got the complete Hook score and listened to it a lot and got familiar with it, I just can't hear the connection anymore.  I used to think it directly ripped off something from Hook, but now I can't find it, so I appreciate the Love Theme that much more now.

There is a slight similarity between Hook and Across The Stars in the first few notes, but nothing that makes me think he ripped it from Hook.

[Red 75]

People have discussed the Hook/AOTC similarity alot over the years, but no one (I think) has really been able to confirm it.

[Datameister 2,044]

Yes, that's definately the first few notes of Shmi's theme.

Yeah, it's the first couple of notes...but I kind of doubt there was any intentional thematic relation there.

[crocodile 8,017]

People have discussed the Hook/AOTC similarity alot over the years, but no one (I think) has really been able to confirm it.

According to you it isn't similar?

Karol

[King Mark 3,631]

Yes, that's definately the first few notes of Shmi's theme.

i don't think there is a well defined Shmi's theme.Williams put that lonely trumpet in a few cues but each time the melody is different but similar.

K.M.

[Delorean90 42]

You know, I heard the Hook connection when I first heard AOTC, but then, after I actually got the complete Hook score and listened to it a lot and got familiar with it, I just can't hear the connection anymore.  I used to think it directly ripped off something from Hook, but now I can't find it, so I appreciate the Love Theme that much more now.

There is a slight similarity between Hook and Across The Stars in the first few notes, but nothing that makes me think he ripped it from Hook.

Yeah, it's the little triplet that is shared by Across the Stars and the...what is that theme? It's the one from "Prologue" that isn't the Pan/Flying theme. But yeah, I think it's a triplet plus a quarter note or something like that, and the notes that fall in that are either close to if not identical to each other. That's what people are hearing, but beyond that I don't think there's anything.

[King Mark 3,631]

It's just a similarity and not a rip.Just like Hedwig's theme and Shindler's List theme

K.M.

[Ollie 1,059]

That's really stretching it a bit.

[John Crichton 4]

Yes, that's definately the first few notes of Shmi's theme.

i don't think there is a well defined Shmi's theme.Williams put that lonely trumpet in a few cues but each time the melody is different but similar.

K.M.

That's true for other prequel themes, but Shmi's theme is actually very well defined once the later version is introduced in Anakin is Free. The first four notes are what are played in RotS, and they sound too much like the theme to me to be coincidental.

[deleted account 108]

Do you mean that Shmi has no well-defined theme, or that it is never well defined in RotS? Because she definitely has a theme - you can hear it TPM when she says goodbye to Anakin, in AOTC when Anakin talks to Obi-Wan about his dreams on Padme's balcony, and again in AotC when Anakin reunites with his mom in the Tusken Raider camp. Personally, I think JW IS referencing Shmi's theme in the aforementioned scene with Palpatine.

[Red 75]

You know, I heard the Hook connection when I first heard AOTC, but then, after I actually got the complete Hook score and listened to it a lot and got familiar with it, I just can't hear the connection anymore.  I used to think it directly ripped off something from Hook, but now I can't find it, so I appreciate the Love Theme that much more now.

There is a slight similarity between Hook and Across The Stars in the first few notes, but nothing that makes me think he ripped it from Hook.

Yeah, it's the little triplet that is shared by Across the Stars and the...what is that theme? It's the one from "Prologue" that isn't the Pan/Flying theme. But yeah, I think it's a triplet plus a quarter note or something like that, and the notes that fall in that are either close to if not identical to each other. That's what people are hearing, but beyond that I don't think there's anything.

That theme is appropriately called the Prologue theme. And yes, I do think that there is a similarity between the two.

[Delorean90 42]

Thanks! I've always wondered what that was.

[Jacob 0]

I'm not sure what the Prologue theme is, but the part that made me go "Hey, that sounds like Across the Stars!" is about 2:05 - 2:21 of the track Granny Wendy.

I listened to AtS again and couldn't find the part in the concert version that really reminds of that part of Hook. But on GoodMusician's Sith edit (Thanks again for that great set!) on the track A Moody Trip from about 0:07-0:17 is the part that really sounds similar to me.

So yeah.

[Ollie 1,059]

I've always thought it was Pan's theme. Williams wrote the prologue cue for the teaser trailer that came out for Hook.

[John Crichton 4]

The prologue theme is, in my opinion, a theme that represents the conflict between Pan and Hook. Pan's theme is the flying theme. Which also appears in the Prologue. Confused yet?

[John Takis 206]

On the ROTS OST, listen to Track 2, 2:15-2:25. In my opinion, this may be an oblique reference to Anakin's Theme. The sequence to listen for is C#-B-G#-A. I say oblique because it's not perfectly identical (also, Anakin's Theme is, by nature, rather mutable) -- but the notes are close, the shape is right, and that "A" pops up frequently at the end of phrases in the concert version of Anakin's Theme. Coming so soon after the direct quote of Anakin's Theme in the film, it makes me suspect the evocation is intentional.

[Datameister 2,044]

That's quite a stretch, John...I dunno...the melodic shape is somewhat similar to certain sections of Anakin's theme, I suppose, but I'm going to put my money on the fact that no composer, no matter how great, is always going to be 100% original. Certain melodic fragments will of course re-occur in Maestro Williams' work, and I don't think this one was an intentional reference to Anakin's theme.

[Red 75]

The prologue theme is, in my opinion, a theme that represents the conflict between Pan and Hook. Pan's theme is the flying theme. Which also appears in the Prologue. Confused yet?

You are correct about the Prologue theme. However, the flying theme is not necessaraly Pan's theme. I think that the theme heard in "The Face of Pan" or "You Are the Pan' would constitute as Pan's theme.

[King Mark 3,631]

the flying theme is in the prologue.

Pan's theme is the one that opens the End Credits.

K.M.

[Red 75]

No, thats the Neverland theme. The theme which is most often hear in the score.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Didn't John Takis once do a thematic break down of Hook?

[ridan 0]

Yep: http://web.archive.org/web/20010215035541/...ok/analysis.htm