Alan Silvestri: the innovative leader

[untouchables 0]

I think that Alan Silvestri is the new veteran in Hollywood and the successor of John Willaims.

It's amazing that this man has never got an Oscar.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I love Silvestri. But you can not call him innovative.

He has written some great scores, but always in a fairly conventional style. Never breaking new ground.

Also as good as he is, he doesnt have the chops, talent or career JW has had.

[Josh500 1,615]

I think that Alan Silvestri is the new veteran in Hollywood and the successor of John Willaims.

No.

He wrote some great scores, like BTTF and Forrest Gump, and he has talented, sure, but that's it. He doesn't particularly stand out, IMO.

It's amazing that this man has never got an Oscar.

Well, considering JG had won only 1... it's not so amazing.

[Uni 306]

I agree that he's a veteran. I wouldn't call him the successor of Williams. He's a great composer in his own right, but at his best he doesn't really compare with the Maestro. (I suppose that means that if he is Williams' successor, the clock really is ticking down on the era of great filmusic.)

It's unfortunate that he's never won an Academy Award. His most Oscar-worthy material is usually quieter and more subtle, and always seems to be pitted against shoo-in candidates (his score for Forrest Gump never stood a chance against The Lion King—regrettably). I'd like to see him win one someday. He certainly deserves to be acknowledged as one of the finer artists of his time.

I'm curious—which of Silvestri's scores have you been listening to that compelled you to make this declaration? Just wondering.

- Uni

[crocodile 8,013]

I always thought Cast Away is stroke of genius. Not in a purely musical sense. But in a way the film is scored and what impact it has on it.

Predator seems in a way to anticipate a style of action films that has emerged in the mid-90's and remains intact to this day. At least I see this this way.

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

No. Predator is not an early Media Ventures score.

For that you need to look at Top Gun etc...

[crocodile 8,013]

Oh, I didn't mean it like that. But it seems to drive its film in a same way. Very propulsive and single-minded, small motifs and stuff. This is not a John Williams type of ballet.

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

True.

I also think that many of Silvestri's early scores sound a bit...thin. Compositionally speaking.

He was using big orchestra's already in the 80's, but hadn't quite figured out how to properly use them.

Predator, BTTF etc all sound a bit underorchestrated too me. And not as a stylistic choice.

I don't think he really composed a score that sounded truly "epic" up until Judge Dredd.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I'm curious—which of Silvestri's scores have you been listening to that compelled you to make this declaration? Just wondering.

- Uni

He's a troll

[chuck 154]

Also as good as he is, he doesnt have the chops, talent or career JW has had.

Nobody has the chops, talent or career JW has had.

Well, considering JG had won only 1... it's not so amazing.

Even worse, only has 17 f'ing noms.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Alan Silvestri "innovative leader"?

Jesus!

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

I always thought of Jesus as an innovative leader. Silvestri? Not so much.

[chuck 154]

I always thought of Jesus as an innovative leader. Silvestri? Not so much.

I find that statement highly ironic in contrast with your avatar...

[Ollie 1,059]

No religious discussions allowed!!!!!

[KK 3,307]

Never really loved Silvestri to be honest. I enjoy BTTF and Forrest Gump (not a big Preadator fan), but I was never his biggest fan.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I love his work for Zemeckis.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

No religious discussions allowed!!!!!

You are no longer a Moderator!

[chuck 154]

I like his work on Van Helsing.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Now thats a MV score done by a proper composer!

[KK 3,307]

The guys at MV could learn a thing or two from scores like Van Helsing or Priest. Now that's how it should be done!

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

What a bizarre topic. To each their own, but Silvestri is by no means an innovative leader or successor of John Williams. Hans Zimmer is.

[Uni 306]

No one (including myself, I guess) has yet mentioned one of the earliest—and still one of my favorite—scores from his repertoire: Romancing the Stone. Not innovative, not even top tier, and hardly epic . . . but man, is that a fun one. If he'd loosened up a little more through the length of his career the way he did in the beginning, we might've been treated to some even better stuff (instead of bottom-scrapers like Overboard).

- Uni

[untouchables 0]

To be clear I don't said that Alan Silvestri is leader in film music, I just said he is leader to be the best successor of John Williams style.

I far prefer Alan Silvestri to copyste like has Zimmer.

He has very varied style using big orchestra, guitar, piano (héroic, action, romantic, ...) and he has even arranged some of his scores.

Of course I don't compare him with orginal composers like Henry Mancini or Ennio Morricone.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

If anything, stylistically speaking Silvestri is closer to Goldsmith. Especially in his block buster scores.

Silvestri also has a knack for very clear, streamlined orchestrations.

Also to be a leader, you have to be a dominant voice.

Up untill his association with Marvel, Silvestri had been fairly dormant. And much of the recent scores he did do weren't exactly critically acclaimed.

[Quintus 5,399]

Oh, I didn't mean it like that. But it seems to drive its film in a same way. Very propulsive and single-minded, small motifs and stuff. This is not a John Williams type of ballet.

Karol

You could say the same about BTTF and its own rhythmic action/suspense music, particularly in the second film.

I'd definitely disagree with you. Silverstri's militaristic meets operatic style is his own, that's something he's just about managed to maintain even in these highly derivative times, even though he lost his mojo years ago; for good I think.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It might not simply be in demand.

Silvestri did return to his earlier style to an extent in Captain America.

But for The Avengers he was asked to do a more modern action score.

[chuck 154]

If anything, stylistically speaking Silvestri is closer to Goldsmith. Especially in his block buster scores.

It is safe to say he is more likely the successor of Goldsmith.

[Uni 306]

If anything, stylistically speaking Silvestri is closer to Goldsmith. Especially in his block buster scores.

Definitely. And that's not a knock on Silvestri, mind you (how could comparison with Goldsmith be a knock?). But the stylistic comparison to Williams just doesn't wash.

I thought for a good while that David Arnold might be the rising successor to JW's approach. A couple of scores he's done caused me to rethink that a bit, but overall I think he's one of the best full-orchestra, grandiose and operatic composers in the industry these days.

Ultimately we have to face the reality that there may not be an heir to the particular style John Williams brings to scoring movies. It's a one-in-a-million gift, what he does. And even if one eventually emerges, there's no saying it'll even happen in this generation. After all, Williams himself is considered the successor to the techniques of composers like Erich Korngold, and it took decades for John to reach the point where people began to recognize him as such.

- Uni

[Nick1Ø66 4,714]

I loved what he did with Contact and Cast Away (though there wasn't much to the latter).

But as a successor to Williams? Nah. That's not knock on Silvestri, I just don't think that's him.

But this "successor to Williams" stuff is just fan boy talk anyway. There will never be a successor to Williams. It's not that someone as talented as Williams isn't out there, or won't be. It's just that Hollywood has changed so much, and Williams had the good fortune of timing and incredible talent...along with a unique relationship with a couple very influential filmmakers. Sure, others will adopt his style, he's clearly been the most influential film composer in history (after Zimmer, of course). But when he's gone, I think that era of film scoring goes with him, and I doubt we will see anything quite like that...or him...again.

[crocodile 8,013]

I'd definitely disagree with you. Silverstri's militaristic meets operatic style is his own, that's something he's just about managed to maintain even in these highly derivative times, even though he lost his mojo years ago; for good I think.

I never said it's not his style or that it sounds like MV. I'm just saying his music from the 80's, most notably Predator, must have had a huge impact on how films like this are scored. In a broad sense.

And yes, Goldsmith connection is there.

Karol

[lonzoe 18]

No one (including myself, I guess) has yet mentioned one of the earliest—and still one of my favorite—scores from his repertoire: Romancing the Stone. Not innovative, not even top tier, and hardly epic . . . but man, is that a fun one. If he'd loosened up a little more through the length of his career the way he did in the beginning, we might've been treated to some even better stuff (instead of bottom-scrapers like Overboard).

- Uni

How is Overboard a "bottom-scraper"?

[Naïve Old Fart 9,528]

I always couple Alan Silvestri with Bruce Broughton: close, but no Cuban...

Both write competent, partially exciting, always listenable scores ("Predator", "BTTF" - plus "II", and "III" - "Silverado", "Young Sherlock Holmes") without ever getting much attention from either their peers, nor the wider public. This is a shame, but perhaps to be expected.

personally, I like both "Contact", and "The Abyss" (I only wish the latter was transferred to CD better).

[wanner251 17]

I'm glad you mentioned Contact and the The Abyss. Those are extremely well done. Still, the BTTF Trilogy is his crowning achievement. I will say that I like him a lot, but I definitely agree with the sentiment that he is more of a Goldsmith successor, which is definitely not too shabby. Oh and don't forget Flight of the Navigator and Mouse Hunt! He definitely has a formula for films, considering that he does a lot of comedies and kid stuff. However, it's interesting that he seems to shine most when he is not doing those kinds of films. I suppose they allow him to stretch his wings a bit more. Who knows....

[Brónach 1,302]

The Abyss and Cast Away are favourites of mine. I haven't heard Contact.

What I like most about Silvestri is his way of introducing themes in his action pieces, with those clear, exciting orchestrations. And his very typical adagio strings thing.

I'm listening to the The Avengers right now. I critizize of it that the music could be more colourful, original, specific for each character, and in that sense, it's a missed opportunity. That said, Silvestri has the basics covered, because it's fun and some of the stuff he does here gave the scenes an extra oomph that I liked that you normally don't get from action scores nowadays. I felt more or less the same, the difference being that one had a theme a bit more awesome, but the development of the score was a bit more boring. I think Silvestri's style works better for the Marvel films than the other types of scores they've used. At least I find it more fun, more like my taste. They should let him be weirder and more daring and we'd have a winner.

<annoying superhero comparison> The Avengers is better scored than TDKR </annoying superhero comparison>

[Naïve Old Fart 9,528]

"Contact" is really good, especially on the DVD 5.1 siolated score.

[Uni 306]

I'm listening to the The Avengers right now. I critizize of it that the music could be more colourful, original, specific for each character, and in that sense, it's a missed opportunity. That said, Silvestri has the basics covered. . . .

That's exactly how I felt—that Silvestri was moving into new territory that was just a little too big for him. He filled the background well enough, and this certainly isn't what I'd call bad music, but . . . it just never develops into the sort of thing we're used to hearing in a superhero movie. This would've been a great opportunity to work in specific motifs for each character, allow it to be an ensemble musically as well as visually, but I think that sort of thing is still beyond Alan's ken.

How is Overboard a "bottom-scraper"?

With a couple of exceptions (The Abyss being the most notable), Silvestri rarely manages to incorporate synth into an orchestral score without letting it get away from him and overwhelm the rest of the music. Overboard is a perfect example. This could've been a simple and pleasant piece of work, but he gets synth happy . . . to the point where he's representing a "redneck" family with electronic banjo music. Really. . . ?

- Uni

[lonzoe 18]

I see what you're saying, but it was a 1987 score.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It was all the rage.

[Uni 306]

I see what you're saying, but it was a 1987 score.

And? Romancing the Stone was 1984. Back to the Future was '85. He'd already demonstrated very clearly that he didn't need the crutch. But then 1986 rolled around, and Flight of the Navigator gave him a reason to lean on the synthesizer, and apparently he loved the experience so much he turned around and used it for Clan of the Cave Bear—for which he wrote a bitchin' theme, but played most of it out on synth (which was doubly confusing, given that it was a movie about pre-civilized man). From then on he sort of went back and forth: for every Predator, there was an Overboard. As I said earlier, The Abyss was a near-perfect fusion of synthetic and classic orchestral sound, a time when he used both to great effect. But that was the exception more than the rule.

- Uni

[Naïve Old Fart 9,528]

I see what you're saying, but it was a 1987 score.

And? Romancing the Stone was 1984. Back to the Future was '85. He'd already demonstrated very clearly that he didn't need the crutch. But then 1986 rolled around, and Flight of the Navigator gave him a reason to lean on the synthesizer, and apparently he loved the experience so much he turned around and used it for Clan of the Cave Bear—for which he wrote a bitchin' theme, but played most of it out on synth (which was doubly confusing, given that it was a movie about pre-civilized man). From then on he sort of went back and forth: for every Predator, there was an Overboard. As I said earlier, The Abyss was a near-perfect fusion of synthetic and classic orchestral sound, a time when he used both to great effect. But that was the exception more than the rule.

- Uni

Sometimes these things can work, Case in point: "Witness", featuring an all-electronic score in a story about a society that shuns technology. of course, it can also work the other way. Case in point: ooh, I don't know, perhaps a little thing that you have probably never heard of called..."Star Wars".

[Uni 306]

Sometimes these things can work, Case in point: "Witness", featuring an all-electronic score in a story about a society that shuns technology.

Indeed . . . except Witness is actually a story about a man from a society that embraces technology who hides—and mildly interferes—in a society that shuns technology. So if you wanted to take this example to the nth degree, you could say that a completely out-of-place electronic score makes for very apropos accompaniment, yes?

There's no question "these things" work sometimes. But sometimes they don't. And Overboard is one such example.

of course, it can also work the other way. Case in point: ooh, I don't know, perhaps a little thing that you have probably never heard of called..."Star Wars".

Mm-hmm. Yes. You've somehow managed to find the only veteran member of a John Williams message board who's never heard of Star Wars. Stunning rejoinder, that. Guess I'd have to pack up and go home . . . if you hadn't just succeeded in making my point for me.

Of course it works the other way. It always does. Full orchestral scores lend any film more credibility, not less. As I recently said on another thread, if Star Wars had received a synth or rock anthem score (as too many did in that day), it would now be regarded in much the same vein as Flash Gordon—likely a cult classic, but nothing like the success it's become. But Williams took it seriously, and by treating it as a space opera instead of B-grade matinee fodder, he single-handedly turned it into a blockbuster.

Could Silvestri had some something similar to a middling movie like Clan of the Cave Bear? Tough to say, but it's certainly a possibility. My point was that obvious synthetic music—twangy, tingly, electrically polished—breaks the fourth wall in certain movies. And not just as an anachronism; it can have the same effect in a modern-day story as well. It's just a shame Alan's penchant for that kind of thing in the 80's, after he'd already proven he could spin out excellent scores without it (a la Romancing the Stone and Back to the Future), made his work at the time seem uneven and less impressive than it could've been.

- Uni