What are the differences between LLL's Home Alone and LLL's 25th Anniversary Home Alone?

[Josh500 1,615]

What are the differences regarding content? And any difference in sound quality? 

 

If you already own the former, is there any need to get the latter?

 

 

[cmh90790 16]

[King Mark 3,631]

well , on the 25th the film version of  Clotheline Trapeze is on Disk one and the album one on disk 2

[Josh500 1,615]

I've always liked Home Alone, movie and score, but in recent years, I started appreciating this masterful and mesmerising score much more. This is really JW in Tchaikovsky mode!

 

By the way, I got the Home Alone 25th the moment it was released, but for some reason I haven't listened to that one yet (not even ripped onto my PC). I'm planning to do that now, though.

[bollemanneke 3,349]

The 25th Anniversary version has more content and superior sound. If you own the first album, yes, get the second one too and discard the first.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

10 hours ago, Josh500 said:

If you already own the former, is there any need to get the latter?

 

3 hours ago, Josh500 said:

By the way, I got the Home Alone 25th the moment it was released

 

So, you got both versions and you're asking if it's worth having both versions?

[Incanus 5,715]

The difference is about 5 dollars.

[Marian Schedenig 8,198]

The new album isn't just a new remaster, but is based on better original elements as far as I recall. I haven't listened to it much yet, but the difference in sound is said to be significant.

[phbart 609]

Read this: http://www.jwfan.com/?p=8269

[rough cut 1,714]

I have bought this score all three times it has been released.

 

The 25th is the one to own. It sounds the best, albeit only marginally better than the 2010 version.

 

The big takeaway though, is the remastered OST which is presented in full: a better presentation of a score you’ll never find.

[nightscape94 965]

Never felt a rush to get the 25th anniversary version when it was released, but now that it's been out for a couple of years, and is still available, I might pick it up this month.

[Jay 37,368]

Quote

What are the differences between LLL's Home Alone and LLL's 25th Anniversary Home Alone?

 

Easy; The 20th anniversary edition was basically just the OST with the songs removed and the remaining score cues added in from a later-generation tape backup they found of "additional cues".  At the time, the first generation original masters could not be found anywhere and were presumed lost.

 

Later, Mike finally found the original first gen masters in perfect condition, so it was decided to do another release.

Therefore, the 25th anniversary edition follows the same Mike Matessino methodology as used on releases such as ET, JP, 1941, etc etc:  Disc 1 presents the complete score, entirely re-assembled by MM from a proper 192/24 digital transfer of those original first gen masters, using the correct film take of every single cue.  This is followed by all the source music and alternates JW recorded as well.

 

Disc 2 presents the original soundtrack album, rebuilt from scratch from those first gen masters by MM, which throughout features many alternate takes than the film takes.  This is followed by additional source music that was in the film but not on the original OST and some other bonuses.

 

So basically, we have the case of "first incomplete expansion followed by a later definitive complete expansion" like so many other scores - Jaws, CE3K, ET, JP, Star Trek TMP, Total Recall, Basic Instinct, etc etc.

 

There's no reason to hold onto the 20th edition, as every note on it is accounted for on the 25th, and every single thing on the 25th comes from a better source.

 

I also encourage you to read Mike explain things better than I ever could right here:

 

http://www.jwfan.com/?p=8269

[rough cut 1,714]

The standalone Trapeze insert is a reason to hold on to the 20th. I like it on its own.

 

But the 25th is better as a whole.

[Marian Schedenig 8,198]

On 02/11/2017 at 2:49 PM, rough cut said:

The big takeaway though, is the remastered OST which is presented in full: a better presentation of a score you’ll never find.

 

It severs the link between Carol of the Bells and Setting the Trap though, which is one of the worst examples of soundtrack album sequencing I know.

[Josh500 1,615]

12 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

It severs the link between Carol of the Bells and Setting the Trap though, which is one of the worst examples of soundtrack album sequencing I know.

 

Setting the Trap doesn't sample or is based on Carol of the Bells.

 

That's a popular myth on jwfan. 

[mstrox 6,651]

While it is its own piece, it almost certainly is written to harken back to Carol of the Bells.  (imo I guess, but I feel very strongly about this)

[Josh500 1,615]

Setting the Trap is based on Star of Bethlehem, and that's it. 

[rough cut 1,714]

Wait, what?

 

There are a few similarities when the first few notes start playing the main melody (in Setting The Trap) but, to me, that’s it.

 

About the sequencing being the worst ever - agree to disagree. 

 

[Marian Schedenig 8,198]

41 minutes ago, Josh500 said:

Setting the Trap is based on Star of Bethlehem, and that's it. 

 

The opening ostinato directly takes over the Dies Irae-ish ostinato of the carol. As far as I remember, it even crossfades in the film.

[Josh500 1,615]

9 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

The opening ostinato directly takes over the Dies Irae-ish ostinato of the carol. As far as I remember, it even crossfades in the film.

 

No. Carol of the Bells segues into Setting the Trap, but the latter does not include the former. I hear a slight similarity to make the transition more digestible but that's it.

 

Regardless, this is one of the best scored scenes in a comedy, ever. Without the music, this is just a silly scene about some kid fooling around. With the music, it becomes the adventure of a lifetime. 

 

 

[Marian Schedenig 8,198]

0:31. That's Carol of the Bells, not Star of Bethlehem (that comes in at 0:35). The rhythm and ostinato also seem to be derived from that bit.

 

Of course, if you just keep saying "No", I'll simply give up.

[Josh500 1,615]

Just now, Marian Schedenig said:

0:31. That's Carol of the Bells, not Star of Bethlehem (that comes in at 0:35). The rhythm and ostinato also seem to be derived from that bit.

 

Well, I think it's just a similar rhythm. It's not the same melody. 

 

Well, we can agree to disagree.

[Jay 37,368]

Wow, you're just wrong on this one Josh, its completely intended by Williams to use Carol of the Bells in Setting The Trap.  Haven't you read the liner notes in the 25th set?

[Josh500 1,615]

4 hours ago, Jay said:

Wow, you're just wrong on this one Josh, its completely intended by Williams to use Carol of the Bells in Setting The Trap.  Haven't you read the liner notes in the 25th set?

 

What does it say, exactly? 

 

In any case, I can listen to these pieces myself and draw my own conclusions. I acknowledge that the melodies/rhythm are rather similar, since these 2 pieces are intended to be played back to back in the movie. But Setting the Trap does NOT sample or include Carol of the Bells.

 

If somebody who knows both pieces but not the movie listened to Setting the Trap, nobody would go, Ah, this is Carol of the Bells! It's just similar, not the same.

11 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

0:31. That's Carol of the Bells, not Star of Bethlehem (that comes in at 0:35). The rhythm and ostinato also seem to be derived from that bit.

 

Only 1 second (0:31) sounds like Carol, all right (features the same notes in a similar fashion) but then this moment is resolved in a completely different and new way! 0:32 - 0:35 and again 0:38 - 0:43 sound nothing like Carol (anymore)! These are completely different melodies.

 

That's it, really. One piece sounds similar to another well-known piece for 1 or 2 seconds. Happens all the time! If you want to call this musically related, then OK! But I disagree.

[Balahkay 627]

"Setting the Traps" always reminded me of Mannheim Steamroller's Carol of the Bells, particularly at :46.

 

 

9 hours ago, Josh500 said:

 

No. Carol of the Bells segues into Setting the Trap, but the latter does not include the former. I hear a slight similarity to make the transition more digestible but that's it.

 

Regardless, this is one of the best scored scenes in a comedy, ever. Without the music, this is just a silly scene about some kid fooling around. With the music, it becomes the adventure of a lifetime. 

 

 

 

"Setting the Trap" is in my top 10 Williams tracks.  In fact, the whole score elevates the movie in a way only Williams can accomplish.

[rough cut 1,714]

I’m also curious to what the book says? Mine is in the basement...

 

To me, it’s similar at the start. The strings playing the melody are saying “Carol of the bells” on the first four notes or so but then JW takes the melody elsewhere, playing around with it, although he maintains the rhythmic structure.

 

I think, also, the mind is a bit fooled because of the transition in the movie. They blend together.

[Josh500 1,615]

34 minutes ago, rough cut said:

I’m also curious to what the book says? Mine is in the basement...

 

To me, it’s similar at the start. The strings playing the melody are saying “Carol of the bells” on the first four notes or so but then JW takes the melody elsewhere, playing around with it, although he maintains the rhythmic structure.

 

I think, also, the mind is a bit fooled because of the transition in the movie. They blend together.

 

I agree, thank you! Most people are fooled here. But it's pretty obvious.

 

Another example, where JW does the exact same kind of thing is "Pursuit of the Falcon" from Tintin. The very beginning of it briefly mimicks the preceding opera piece in a humourous way, but it's not based on the opera piece at all. Nobody would say Pursuit is based on the opera piece.

 

It's just a brief transition....

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

If you don't hear the Carol of the Bells melody at the beginning of Setting the Trap, you're deaf.

 

Also, Mannheim Steamroller is the worst thing to happen to music until Hans Zimmer.

[Josh500 1,615]

2 hours ago, The Doctor said:

If you don't hear the Carol of the Bells melody at the beginning of Setting the Trap, you're deaf.

 

I'm not deaf, but you might be dumb, if you actually believe that.

 

Opinions differ. Learn to live with it!

[Brundlefly 2,385]

This is no matter of opinion. It's either there or it is not. And it is there. Two times the first four notes of Carol of the Bells are played at the beginning of Setting the Traps. That's it. However, the piece is not based on it

[Marian Schedenig 8,198]

5 hours ago, rough cut said:

To me, it’s similar at the start. The strings playing the melody are saying “Carol of the bells” on the first four notes or so but then JW takes the melody elsewhere, playing around with it, although he maintains the rhythmic structure.

 

 

Erm... yes. That's exactly what I'm saying.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Perhaps this should be a poll.

[Josh500 1,615]

Well, I also acknowledge (as I already did) that for one second or two, the Setting the Trap mimicks and sounds like Carol of the Bells. This is just the transition.... However, there are people who claim the entire piece is based on Carol of the Bells.

 

Anyway, I suspect we're splitting hairs, arguing over semantics. 

[rough cut 1,714]

Hm, yes, people seem to be “touchy feelyl” on the subject when we all seem to agree (to some degree), or want to discuss similarities and rumours...

 

Home Alone is no subject to joke around about!!! 

 

Luckily, no one is pointing the finger at anyone for being wrong... oh, except for at you, Josh, everyone seems to think that you are on the wrong side of things. 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

All I was posting was that if you didn't clearly hear the Carol of the Bells melody at the start of Setting the Trap, you were deaf. A fair point. I mean, how could you not notice it? On both albums and in the film, Carol segues into Trap. It's so obvious, but apparently some of us are only now noticing it? And then Josh500 called me dumb in response. I'm just not getting it.

[Marian Schedenig 8,198]

5 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

On both albums and in the film, Carol segues into Trap.

 

 

Not on the album, no. That's what I was criticising, which lead to this... whatever this is.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Well, on both LLL albums. However, even on the OST, Carol is followed by Star of Bethlehem and that's the basic structure of Setting the Trap, which comes after those two tracks. So you really should have noticed it if you were listening to the OST!

[Josh500 1,615]

2 hours ago, rough cut said:

Hm, yes, people seem to be “touchy feelyl” on the subject when we all seem to agree (to some degree), or want to discuss similarities and rumours...

 

Home Alone is no subject to joke around about!!! 

 

Luckily, no one is pointing the finger at anyone for being wrong... oh, except for at you, Josh, everyone seems to think that you are on the wrong side of things. 

 

Touchy feely? WTH are you blabbing on about? It's called a discussion. It's what adults do. If you have an honest opinion on this subject, state it. There's no right or wrong here.

 

Otherwise, you're just a dumb troll.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I think you should stop calling people dumb, but what do I know? I am an idiot with a box and a screwdriver.

[Josh500 1,615]

1 minute ago, The Doctor said:

I think you should stop calling people dumb, but what do I know? I am an idiot with a box and a screwdriver.

 

Didn't you call me deaf?

 

 

[Jay 37,368]

Rereading this thread I see Josh rising to anger long before anybody else.

 

And the funny thing is I think everybody is on the same page about this music.  The start of the cue references Carol of the Bells, but the main structure of the cue isn't based on it - but nobody in this thread ever once said that it was.

 

We all understand what's happening with this music. We all agree.

[Josh500 1,615]

7 minutes ago, Jay said:

Rereading this thread I see Josh rising to anger long before anybody else.

 

And the funny thing is I think everybody is on the same page about this music.  The start of the cue references Carol of the Bells, but the main structure of the cue isn't based on it - but nobody in this thread ever once said that it was.

 

We all understand what's happening with this music. We all agree.

 

Well, I already said everything I need to say on the subject. No need to repeat myself. 

 

And if I don't happen to agree with the majority, no need to call me names (and I won't call return the favour, either). 

 

I think we're all adults here, and we can express our opinions--even if said opinion happens to be controversial--honestly, without having to fear retribution or jeopardising the harmony among us. 

 

 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

What are you, deaf and stupid? I said no!

[Bryant Burnette 654]

Michael Matessino says most of this in the liner notes for the 25th:

 

"Kevin runs home from the church and begins Setting the Trap (track 20) for the returning burglars.  The montage is scored with a fugue (with backbeat) spinning off 'Carol Of The Bells' and based on 'Star Of Bethlehem.' JWFan is a fucking cesspool."

[Josh500 1,615]

31 minutes ago, Bryant Burnette said:

"fugue (with backbeat) spinning off 'Carol Of The Bells'"

 

What does that mean exactly, spinning off "Carol of the Bells"? 

 

Well, we all agree for one second or for four notes "Setting" mimicks "Carol of the Bells" (which I call the transition) at 0:31 in the above video, and then JW takes it into a completely different direction. And we never hear those succession of four notes again.

 

The connection between these two pieces is just that... Similar rhythm and four notes. Yes, it's there, but it's tenuous at best. 

40 minutes ago, Bryant Burnette said:

"JWFan is a fucking cesspool."

 

[Faleel 5,350]

I interpret the "spinoff" is just another word for transition, or "setting that mimics"

[Josh500 1,615]

 

24 minutes ago, Fal said:

I interpret the "spinoff" is just another word for transition, or "setting that mimics"

 

Yes, I agree. 

 

It's just a brief transition.... I understand that Carol of the Bells was always meant to segue into Setting, and JW used a couple of notes to echo the preceding piece. Like what he would do years later with "Pursuit of the Falcon."

 

The relationship between these 2 pieces was always blown out of proportion. I guess that's my whole point.

 

 

[rough cut 1,714]

@Josh500 Did you serioysly call me a “just a dumb troll?” *So disappointed*

[Wojo 2,453]

No, he prefaced it with "otherwise."