crocodile 8,012 Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 8 hours ago, Richard Penna said: Brosnan yes. I was referring really to the era - it stopped with Craig. Well, aside from QOS. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 Are QoS and CR the only two Bond scores that were originally released in complete form? With the itunes exclusives, I think they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony 572 Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 The expanded iTunes release of Casino Royale is practically complete, only missing a few seconds worth of music. The Quantum Of Solace album isn't complete but there is no extra music of note to justify an expanded release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,689 Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 3 hours ago, crocodile said: Well, aside from QOS. Karol We're referring to the song being included on the score album, and that stopped with Casino Royale and never restarted. The QoS album doesn't contain the film's song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 6 minutes ago, Richard Penna said: We're referring to the song being included on the score album, and that stopped with Casino Royale and never restarted. The QoS album doesn't contain the film's song. Yes, it does. It's the last track on the album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,689 Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 I knew the moment I saw you quoting me that I'd made a mistake... I stand corrected! Still, not in its intended place. But I'm benchmarking these against LLL's TWINE which includes the song and in the correct place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,012 Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 55 minutes ago, Richard Penna said: We're referring to the song being included on the score album, and that stopped with Casino Royale and never restarted. The QoS album doesn't contain the film's song. Well...it is on mine. Ah you already know. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,012 Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 Listening to this now. It's not as dramatic of an upgrade as Die Another Day last year. But that is because this score had a much better OST. Still, it's amazing what an inclusion of some few crucial tracks can do to your enjoyment. Snow Business is terrifc and it's great to have both the gun barrel and end credits. And I always liked the title song. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 Agreed. The OST was pretty good already. But having the additional music is no punishment in any way. Especially the extra version of Elektra's Theme, which is one of Arnold's best themes he's done. He's got a very fine singing voice too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted December 16, 2018 Author Share Posted December 16, 2018 Guys I've fallen in love with this score! I never paid much attention to it in the past, but I just can't stop listening to it now. As I was never super familiar with the OST, I basically listened to this the few first times as a pure album experience, just taking in the whole score as a whole, not thinking or even being aware of what's new vs what was released before, etc. Looking back at the OST track list now, it's crazy to me that some essential ingredients to the score like the Gun Barrel and especially Snow Business weren't on there! Wow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 About time! I've been waxing lyrical about this score since 1999! It's his best Bond score, imo. KittBash 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted December 16, 2018 Author Share Posted December 16, 2018 Oh I still strongly prefer Tomorrow Never Dies, but this score is a super worthy followup! I think my disappointment back in '99 was that it was so different from TND, and I also remember thinking the electronics were too much after they were perfectly and seemlessly integrated into the orchestra in TND. But listening to TWINE now, I don't think the electronics are too much at all. Did Neil change the mix so the electronics are less loud, or is it just a case of the OST chose to mostly include electronics-heavy tracks, so when you hear the complete score they are more spread out? Or maybe I am just over the "shock" of hearing electronics used differently than they were in TND, and he actually had a cool blend all along. I feel like I'm still discovering more about this score every time I listen. Right now I'm listening on headphones and hearing so much great detail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,076 Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 13 minutes ago, Jay said: I think my disappointment back in '99 was that it was so different from TND, and I also remember thinking the electronics were too much after they were perfectly and seemlessly integrated into the orchestra in TND. Just for fun, this is quite similar to Clemmensen's verdict: Quote Overall, The World is Not Enough could easily have been a 4-star score if Arnold hadn't tried so hard to beef up the electronica elements to obnoxious levels. His other Bond scores prove that there is a happy balance to be had, but he misses it here. This score remains, however, superior to Die Another Day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 30 minutes ago, Jay said: Did Neil change the mix so the electronics are less loud, or is it just a case of the OST chose to mostly include electronics-heavy tracks, so when you hear the complete score they are more spread out? Or maybe I am just over the "shock" of hearing electronics used differently than they were in TND, and he actually had a cool blend all along. No, I know the OST incredibly well, and the mix on the new release sounds pretty much the same. I guess it's just the way a new presentation can cause you to reevaluate a score. Ollie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted December 16, 2018 Author Share Posted December 16, 2018 14 minutes ago, Stefancos said: a new presentation can cause you to reevaluate a score. I love when that happens! bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,012 Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 58 minutes ago, Jay said: Did Neil change the mix so the electronics are less loud, or is it just a case of the OST chose to mostly include electronics-heavy tracks, so when you hear the complete score they are more spread out? No, I think it sounds pretty much exactly the same. It seems like both TWINE and DAD had the OST albums showcase electronics quite a lot, And while it's great for presenting what is stylistically unique about these scores I think it misrepresented them in some sense. TWINE expansion certainly now flows much better but it's not as drastic of an upgrade as DAD last year. The 2002 album was one of the most dreadful listens I've ever experienced. The electronics in that score are much more aggressive and that disc emphasised them greatly and it really put me off. It didn't help the dreadful Madonna song was on that album as well as well as that useless Paul Oakenfold remix track. Low and behold, the LLL album comes out in 2017 and it feels nothing like that. Sure, the electronic tracks are there but the remaining material is mostly quite traditional. In its full form the music feels meaty and full-bodied. The thematic material might not be as well pronounced but, still, the difference is immense. Karol Ollie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,689 Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 My next step has been to buy the DVD for a few ££s to familiarise myself with how bits of the score work in the film, which I haven't seen since not long after the film came out. This is easily my favourite Bond score, and one of only two for which I have a full album (the other being Skyfall). I have a handful of tracks from CR, TND and Spectre but they rarely get air time. 1 hour ago, crocodile said: The 2002 album was one of the most dreadful listens I've ever experienced. The electronics in that score are much more aggressive and that disc emphasised them greatly and it really put me off. I won't be able to back this up with a source, but I'm fairly sure I read somewhere that the OST is the way it is because Arnold was asked by whoever put the album out to focus on the electronic cues, rather than all that orchestral nonsense. I'm fine with the synths in TWINE, although a casual comparison hasn't yet revealed what the difference is between the two versions of Pipeline, for example. I particularly like the Bunker and Caviar Factory set pieces, and I'm sure parts of the submarine cues jumped out at me when I saw the film. I'm going to have to watch the film again to remind myself. crocodile 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 Die Another Day is an awesome song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,689 Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 I just listened to a bit of it for possibly the first time ever and it sounded terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 I haven't picked this up yet. I'm hoping for TND next year and then I'll get all three Arnold/Brosnan scores in one go. Hasn't Snow Business been available for ages, though? I believe it was up on Arnold's website as a (lossy) promo track for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted December 16, 2018 Author Share Posted December 16, 2018 I have no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 Yes it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 Yes, three short cues from TWINE were up as samples on Arnold's old website. They were low quality MP3's though. The only unreleased music from TWINE to ever surface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted December 17, 2018 Author Share Posted December 17, 2018 Listening to this again this morning. Just got to Snow Business, and, my god! This cue is so good, I can't fathom what went through the minds of everyone involved with assembling the initial OST album to not include this cue there. What were they thinking? Richard Penna 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 They thought it sounded too much like John Barry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Snow Business is fine, there's better stuff in the score though. I prefer Elektra's Theme to the love theme from Snow Business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,689 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Received the DVD today which unveiled an issue - the start of Body Double in the film is a tense bit for strings, then electronics come in gradually. Unfortunately the LLL track has what was clearly the original mix for this cue, with the electronics right from the start. In my mind it totally changes the feel of the cue towards a more funky sound. This release otherwise sounds fantastic - but this is one of my pet hates, when official releases ignore what is sometimes a superior film mix. Given that some of the alternates are barely discernible, it would've been nice to have a track like this with no electronics. They did it for Titanic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 Ice Bandits playing now! There's some really awesome action music in this score. Arnold really gives the orchestra a work out. The more gentler stuff actually feel like a precursor to his Casino Royale score. Like Vespers, Elektra's Theme has an inherent minor mode sadness. Glad to see this, much ignored, score is finally getting some kudo's, @Jay MrJosh and Jay 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,076 Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 On 12/17/2018 at 3:45 PM, Jay said: Listening to this again this morning. Just got to Snow Business, and, my god! This cue is so good, I can't fathom what went through the minds of everyone involved with assembling the initial OST album to not include this cue there. What were they thinking? Perhaps the cue wasn't completed in time for the OST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 Its possible. For TND Arnold had only scored thr first half of the film when they released the OST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,012 Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 Ice Bandits is great. But I also heard it once played live in concert with the electronic stuff replaced by live percussion. That was even better. I remember it sounding very old school. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 Pipeline is even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,012 Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 It's like a Philip Glass Bond score. Well, kinda... Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 TWINE has always reminded me of The Lost World, action music wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,012 Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 Because it has a similar percussive drive? Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 Yes, and neither are especially thematic. More motivic. Of course, I still believe Don Davis cribbed from this for The Matrix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,689 Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 Pipeline is definitely my favourite cue of the score. From watching the submarine scene with just the music playing, it occurred to me that sections of the cue are an action version of the descending Renard motif. Although I'm not entirely a fan of the hyped up section just before Renard gets stomached by the rod. Does anyone have any further ideas on where the film's End Credits insert comes from? It's not one I'm overly desperate to re-create - just curious really. It's got different instrumentation to Company Car and Soundhound tags some synth track from a Bond compilation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 The opening sounds like Company Car to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted December 22, 2018 Author Share Posted December 22, 2018 Neil said it was material from the TND score (obviously some cue or version of a cue that wasn't use or released before). I posted his quote earlier in the thread. On the topic of favorite action tracks in the score, mine's easily Come In 007, Your Time Is Up, AINEC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 Yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted December 22, 2018 Author Share Posted December 22, 2018 Since getting the set, that track just keeps getting stuck in my head. I've listened to this entire set I dunno, half a dozen or so times since I've gotten it, but I've listened to that track (pretty much always with Show Me The Money first, I actually wish they had been combined into one track on this edition) another half dozen or so times too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 I always wondered why they were two tracks. I guess Arnold likes it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted December 22, 2018 Author Share Posted December 22, 2018 It was fine on the OST, but I wish on this release they just put them in one track. The Chapter III version of TND had some bleedover between track changes too, something a future definitive edition hopefully doesn't replicate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scallenger 483 Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 I just rip that section as one track to keep them combined. I can never imagine to listening to them separate; it's just too weird to me. Pieter Boelen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,689 Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 Same. I don't understand why anyone would separate them, particularly at that point. Edit - I didn't realise you could rip a section of a CD and not break up its tracks... I'd been ripping the tracks then joining them before! Anyway, my version of this section is uninterrupted from Show Me The Money all the way to The World Is Not Enough. Seemed no reason to cut this set piece up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted December 23, 2018 Author Share Posted December 23, 2018 Oh yea, any good CD ripping program can rip two tracks together into one file with no blip in between whatsoever, I'm only wondering why they thought it was the best idea to do what the OST did here on the expanded release. In the end, not a big deal, just a curious one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 Gapless playback, so its a complete non-issue. Pieter Boelen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittBash 282 Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 So happy I got this for Christmas this year! So nice to hear some of this without sound effects! Agree with Jay it's an awesome experience this way! Unlike the Die Another Day release from last year I don't think there's any reason this time around to need the OST as well. It's pretty much complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 There's nothing on the OST that isn't on the new release. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted December 27, 2018 Author Share Posted December 27, 2018 Why would you need to keep the Die Another Day OST? Serious question; I'm not familiar with that score Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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