The Sugarland Express

[JohnnyD 1,223]

I was just curious about something.

How come John Williams's music to The Sugarland Express has not been released yet?

Everything from Jaws to Lincoln has been released.

[Jay 37,364]

There was no LP at the time of the film's release, and since the era of the specialty labels started, JW has vetoed their requests to release. It might not get released until after his passing, if the masters even still exist.

[JohnnyD 1,223]

Oh, that is interesting. Now that you mention it, I think the master tapes have been lost to time. Otherwise, it would have gotten a release sooner or later. At least John Williams performs the main theme in concerts. We have the movie itself to listen to the music.

[indy4 155]

Oh, that is interesting. Now that you mention it, I think the master tapes have been lost to time. Otherwise, it would have gotten a release sooner or later. At least John Williams performs the main theme in concerts. We have the movie itself to listen to the music.

Apparently John Williams doesn't want it to be released. So we don't really know if the master tapes are available or not, because even if they were it still wouldn't be released for other reasons.

Johnny, are you aware that there are several recordings of the main theme from Sugarland? If you haven't already, I'd recommend tchecking them out.

[Thor 7,506]

I have never seen an official statement about Williams boycotting this, but let's just say it's true -- I wonder what his reasons are? Someone should put the question to him.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

What would you consider an official statement? Didnt someone from one of the labels say this?

[filmmusic 1,829]

I have never seen an official statement about Williams boycotting this, but let's just say it's true -- I wonder what his reasons are? Someone should put the question to him.

I would assume he doesn't believe his music is too good for an album release.

Although there have been so many releases from his earlier scores, that I wouldn't regards them as better.

and yes, as stefancos says, i remember too, one of the labels said it.

By the way, if the master tapes don't exist, what is the source of the bootleg then?

[Richard Penna 3,690]

Interview with Roger Feigelson:

http://www.underscores.fr/index.php/2009/04/interviews-roger-feigelson-vo/

Did you ever release scores in order to please the composer, even if you would not do it without him asking for it? Did the contrary ever happen, a composer asking you not to release a score?

Yes to both. We’ve done things for composers and studios as a favor because we like to support their efforts. And yes, John Williams was adamant about there not being a release of Sugarland Express.

I'd be interested in whether he doesn't want it released because he's unhappy with it, or he just feels the main theme alone is all we need to hear.

[filmmusic 1,829]

Interview with Roger Feigelson:

http://www.underscores.fr/index.php/2009/04/interviews-roger-feigelson-vo/

Did you ever release scores in order to please the composer, even if you would not do it without him asking for it? Did the contrary ever happen, a composer asking you not to release a score?

Yes to both. We’ve done things for composers and studios as a favor because we like to support their efforts. And yes, John Williams was adamant about there not being a release of Sugarland Express.

thanks.

The thing that is strange is, why did they ask him about Sugarland Express in particular and they didn't ask him abou John Goldfarb, Penelope, Bachelor Flat, Nightwatch etc. etc.?

Or they did ask him and he didn't have any problem with them being released but only with Sugarland?

[Jay 37,364]

People inquire about The Sugarland Express all the time because it's considered to be an important score - the very first Spielberg/Williams collaboration.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Thor. Would you not consider that an official source?

[JohnnyD 1,223]

I am aware that the Maestro performs the main theme to The Sugarland Express at concerts. I have one of those recordings from

The Music of America: John Williams.

Also, we have the film in order to listen to the music. It may not be an album release, but it is official, and it suffices.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I remember going to Walmart to try and find it after we saw it at the theatre. Of course I didn't find it. I didn't know that was the first of many to come collaborative efforts between the two but I was already a JW fan even then and a soundtrack collector.

[publicist 4,643]

Only Erich Kunzel recorded the actual main theme from the movie, Williams for whatever reason only took a secondary phrase and expanded it for his version.

[indy4 155]

That arrangemt is also a available on a JW cd. Either greatest hits or the city if Prague 4 disc one.

[Richard Penna 3,690]

It's on both of those - I prefer the Greatest Hits one.

He knows his popularity though, and even thought he doesn't understand the world's desire for C&C, he must still be aware that people would like some representation of the score, so I'm thinking he must feel really insecure about it, to only allow the main theme.

[filmmusic 1,829]

He knows his popularity though, and even thought he doesn't understand the world's desire for C&C, he must still be aware that people would like some representation of the score, so I'm thinking he must feel really insecure about it, to only allow the main theme.

Yes, i also assume it's insecurity but I don't understand what is it that he fears of?

That people will listen to this music and change their whole opinion about the rest of his rich work?

He is John Williams!

I would understand this kind of attitude by someone who is just starting in the business, and so he would like to show his best work out there and hide ahything that he feels it's not very good.

But when you have secured your place in history, I don't understand it.

[Thor 7,506]

Thor. Would you not consider that an official source?

I guess. An indirect source, but still. I still would like to hear Williams' reasons, though.

[Jay 37,364]

You guess? What, do you think Roger Feigelson made it up?

[Thor 7,506]

No. But saying "John Williams was adamant about there not being a release of Sugarland Express" doesn't really tell us much about the reasons or in what way the 'adamation' was expressed. It's a secondhand account.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Either he's not proud of the music, he feels the theme is sufficient representation of the entire score, or both. Take your pick.

[airmanjerm 78]

Either he's not proud of the music, he feels the theme is sufficient representation of the entire score, or both. Take your pick.

I'd say both. Having heard the boot a couple times....sheesh, it's insufferably boring as a whole. Some nice parts and all, but not exactly a roller coaster of emotions. Lots of pat-a-pat-a-pat that's fine in the movie, but nothing I really need in my CD player.

At the same time, the historical viewpoint is another, and there's always something to be learned from a master composer, so I'm not trying to say it's worthless or anything. If it were released, I'd certainly buy it.

I wonder if a label would have better luck trying to release this one and some other not-the-best score together, with the highlights from each? I know that's not the best type of release for our Completist mentality, but maybe something JW may consider.

Has JW ever had similar objections to any other score?

[Richard Penna 3,690]

Meh... historical factors don't make the music sound any better. I buy what's good.

[Hlao-roo 389]

The score is insufferably irritating.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

I think Williams may believe this score is very monothematic and repetitive, so he released the concert version of the theme and seems to be happy about it.

A shame for us

[Ollie 1,059]

Whether one likes this score or not, it derserves / needs a release.

It's an important part of film music history. Sadly we may end up getting our wishes one day but until then we must respect Williams' decision.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,533]

The version on "The Spielberg/Williams Connection" as played by Toots Thielmans is really nice.

[Ludwig 1,120]

The version on "The Spielberg/Williams Connection" as played by Toots Thielmans is really nice.

Agreed.

About Williams' reasons for not allowing a release of the score, no one knows for sure, but I think a lot of composers look back at their early works and feel a kind of embarrassment because they have found more of their artistic voice since their early works. So even if those works aren't bad, I think composers themselves can feel that they are because they are often their own harshest critics. I would guess that Williams falls into this category given the things I've heard him say, like one thing he would change about his career is that he wishes he could have done some scores better (!).

[filmmusic 1,829]

About Williams' reasons for not allowing a release of the score, no one knows for sure, but I think a lot of composers look back at their early works and feel a kind of embarrassment because they have found more of their artistic voice since their early works. So even if those works aren't bad, I think composers themselves can feel that they are because they are often their own harshest critics. I would guess that Williams falls into this category given the things I've heard him say, like one thing he would change about his career is that he wishes he could have done some scores better (!).

Yes, i understand but many much earlier works of his have been released:

Bachelor Flat

Diamond Head

None but the Brave

John Goldfarb pelase Come Home

Not with my Wife you Don't

Penelope

etc.

That means that he considers those scores better than his Sugarland Express?

Or maybe he doesn't even know that they're released?

[Jay 37,364]

He probably doesn't know they were released.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Doesnt he recieve royalties from those?

[Jay 37,364]

I would assume so.

[Thor 7,506]

Indeed. If JOHN GOLDFARB got a release -- his worst-ever score! -- SUGARLAND would surely be a candidate, despite the fact that the chuggety-chuggety percussive loops aren't that interesting.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I would assume so.

And dont labels send a copy of their release to either JW or his agents, out of courtesy?

[TownerFan 4,983]

Yes, i understand but many much earlier works of his have been released:

Bachelor Flat

Diamond Head

None but the Brave

John Goldfarb pelase Come Home

Not with my Wife you Don't

Penelope

etc.

That means that he considers those scores better than his Sugarland Express?

Or maybe he doesn't even know that they're released?

People, remember that any film score is property of the FILM STUDIO, not the composer's. The studio is the one who owns all the rights, including any kind of official release on LP. CD, digital, whatever (which in some cases are shared also by a record company if there were agreements for an OST release at the time of the film's release).

The composer cannot prevent himself/herself in any way a release of sorts, if the studio decides to release it. Period.

What could happen anyway is that the studio listens to the composer's (i.e. the author of the music) ideas about an OST release out of respect of him/her and the work done for them. In the case of Williams, many studios are very respectful and tactful about his wishes on what he prefers to see released or not, hence they choose to consult him (or let record producers inform him) before giving license to release anything. It's likely because they do not want to piss him off and release something he maybe prefers not to go out in public. Williams seems quite sensitive and even protective about his work for Spielberg, hence he probably has an agreement with Universal and Amblin that gives him kind of "first option deal" when it comes to OST releases of his own works for any Spielberg production he worked on (or maybe Universal and Amblin simply feel better to defer to him when they receive requests from record companies).

[filmmusic 1,829]

The version on "The Spielberg/Williams Connection" as played by Toots Thielmans is really nice.

Revisiting the score and i was wondering, does anyone know when did Williams rework the theme to his concert version?

Was it eg. a version that he wrote at that time with the score and simply put it in the drawer, or he reworked it eg. in late 80s/early 90s?

(it seems the first known recording of this is in that 1991 cd that Ricard said)

[TownerFan 4,983]

If I remember well, he performed it first in 1990 with the Pops during a tribute concert to Spielberg. He then recorded it in the same year for the album "The Spielberg/Williams Collaboration".

[Incanus 5,715]

Didn't that concert feature quite a few pieces that ended up on that album?

[TownerFan 4,983]

Didn't that concert feature quite a few pieces that ended up on that album?

Yes. I don't know what was originated first, the concert or the album though.

Anyway, the televised version of the concert was up on YouTube until recently, but they removed it.

[Thor 7,506]

I've always preferred the follow-up album WILLIAMS ON WILLIAMS over the Spielberg/Williams one -- in fact, it's one of my favourite compilations of all time -- but the first one is good too. Has better cover art, for sure.

[Incanus 5,715]

I've always preferred the follow-up album WILLIAMS ON WILLIAMS over the Spielberg/Williams one -- in fact, it's one of my favourite compilations of all time -- but the first one is good too. Has better cover art, for sure.

I think the performances on the Spielberg&Williams disc are generally better. Some of the "standards" on the Williams on Williams album seem a bit limp. The Hook Suite is well done and a few other pieces but something like E.T. and Schindler's List miss some intangible spark of energy as does the JP suite.

[Thor 7,506]

I disagree. I absolutely ADORE the lush concert sound of those pieces on the JW ON JW album.

[Jilal 569]

What are everyone's thoughts on this score, while we're at it? I think the intimate, country-esque main theme is quite lovely, and it really sort of settles an innocent road trip-like atmosphere appropriate for the film, aided by the oftentimes light orchestration and the moving bluesy string chords inbetween. The underscore for the police chase sequence may be slightly derivative (cfr. the piano line in EARTHQUAKE's Main Titles and Cory in Jeopardy) but the string writing is nevertheless engaging and quite unique in Williams's career. Not exactly John's best, but certainly not an effort to be forgotten.

[TownerFan 4,983]

What are everyone's thoughts on this score, while we're at it? I think the intimate, country-esque main theme is quite lovely, and it really sort of settles an innocent road trip-like atmosphere appropriate for the film, aided by the oftentimes light orchestration and the moving bluesy string chords inbetween.

It's very fitting with the tone of the film. It's curious to note that Spielberg initially wanted a big Copland-esque score, but Williams persuaded him for a much more intimate, blues-y accompaniment.

[Incanus 5,715]

Thanks to the scant opporturnities to hear this music since there has not been any kind of OST and a few re-recordings of the main theme and not having seen the film this is one of those JW scores I know the least about. There is indeed a great evocative tone to the suites I have heard, slightly country-esque but mostly done in indelible JW style close to the stuff like Conrack and The River and even hints of the Man Who Loved Cat Dancing and The Missouri Breaks.

When all the other similar scores from this period have been released, I wonder why this particular one doesn't meet with the composer's approval.

[Thor 7,506]

I love the theme, but the "shuffling" suspense music -- which takes up a lot of space -- is not very listenable. I assume that's why Williams has boycotted a release. But maybe it would fare better with proper sound -- all I have is the bootleg, like most of you. It should get a release regardless, if nothing else than to fill an important hole in his discography.

[filmmusic 1,829]

When all the other similar scores from this period have been released, I wonder why this particular one doesn't meet with the composer's approval.

The others were released., probably because they didn't ask him.

I can't see John Williams giving his blessing on a release of John Goldfarb, and denying any release of Sugarland Exress.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

But Thor, archival purposes are secondary to Williams album arrangement of just the theme. We have the film and score in excellent quality on the blu-ray release.

[A24 4,336]

Badlands is the better movie.

[Thor 7,506]

But Thor, archival purposes are secondary to Williams album arrangement of just the theme. We have the film and score in excellent quality on the blu-ray release.

You jest, of course, but that only applies to situations where we already have a representative soundtrack album. In this case, we don't (a recording of the theme is not representative).