Howard Shore's The Desolation Of Smaug (Hobbit Part 2)

[Incanus 5,715]

Attack on Dol Guldur perhaps? They might want something suitably grand for Galadriel's purported destruction of the fortifications.

You are getting your timeline mixed. She helps to destroy the fortress during the War of the Ring not when the White Council attacks Dol Guldur. Unless the film makers have changed that as well.

[Jay 37,368]

Oh, I'm sure they have

[Incanus 5,715]

Oh, I'm sure they have

Is nothing sacred anymore?!

[Jay 37,368]

Honestly, since no character in the LOTR film ever mentioned Dol Goldur, or mentioned Sauron ever having any stronghold other than Mordor, does it really matter if Dol Goldur gets destroyed in The Hobbit films or not? Is it even mentioned in the LOTR book, outside of the appendix I mean?

[Incanus 5,715]

Honestly, since no character in the LOTR film ever mentioned Dol Goldur, or mentioned Sauron ever having any stronghold other than Mordor, does it really matter if Dol Goldur gets destroyed in The Hobbit films or not? Is it even mentioned in the LOTR book, outside of the appendix I mean?

It is mentioned in the Council of Elrond in passing but it is always saddening to me when they take these liberties for the sake of their enormous deviations from the plot and histories of Tolkien's works. Still I guess audiences always want that explosive resolution to the villains and their fortresses.

[Jay 37,368]

Well, I agree it'd be better to stick to the timeline Tolkien established (especially for the Azog stuff), but you gotta change some things when you make a film adaptation. Destroying Dol Goldur rather than just expunging Sauron from it isn't TOO big of a deal. LOTR was never directly about the other battles going on during the War Of The Ring anyway - though I suppose Jackson could make a spinoff film about them in another 10 years!

The stuff they are doing with Azog still being alive on the other hand....

[Incanus 5,715]

Yeah films are a different beast than novels. PJ just dove into this particular adaptation with joyous aplomp and outrageous ideas. He will of course do a lot of apologetic comments in the EE documentaries.

Yet I am still dreading the first shot of Dain Ironfoot astride his battleboar...

[chuck 154]

Novels of doorstopper proportions are hard to adapt to celluloid.

Even more so are the fans of said doorstoppers. They are hard to please.

[Incanus 5,715]

Novels of doorstopper proportions are hard to adapt to celluloid.

Even more so are the fans of said doorstoppers. They are hard to please.

We are. We are indeed hard to please. Still I was amazed how well LotR adaptations succeeded. The Hobbit is far weaker on that front. I was prepared to give PJ leeway but he ran out of it pretty quickly.

Shore's music thusfar has been pretty fantastic though. I hope he continues on the same path in Dos.

[chuck 154]

If it had been one film it would have been better.

[Incanus 5,715]

If it had been one film it would have been better.

Two would have been perhaps better still. Room enough for the story to unfold, not feeling rushed but not enough room for loitering and too sluggish pace. And no troublesome side plots and awkwardly staged exposition and explanation for future events.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[chuck 154]

If it had been one film it would have been better.

Two would have been perhaps better still. Room enough for the story to unfold, not feeling rushed but not enough room for loitering and too sluggish pace. And no troublesome side plots and awkwardly staged exposition and explanation for future events.

That's what LOTR should have been:

FOTR parts 1 & 2;

2T parts 1 & 2;

and

ROTK parts 1 & 2

Cuz LOTR has far greater plot content than The Hobbit.

[Incanus 5,715]

There it is again: the whining little cunt. For fuck's sake, Inky, shut the fuck up and enjoy the ride!

Oh yes sorry! Glory and praise to PJ. He has truly crafted a beautiful, balanced and superbly acted, directed and scored spectacle for the ages with bouyant humour and good dose of feel good fairy tale attitude! Praise him, praise him! Greatly praise him! Oh wonder, oh magnificence, no words can do this superlative trilogy enough justice! He was completely right to change everything in the novel for cinematic reasons! Infallible, masterful, beautiful and majestic! Words fail me, words simply fail me....

[Barnald 365]

Attack on Dol Guldur perhaps? They might want something suitably grand for Galadriel's purported destruction of the fortifications.

You are getting your timeline mixed. She helps to destroy the fortress during the War of the Ring not when the White Council attacks Dol Guldur. Unless the film makers have changed that as well.

I'm not certain of it, hence why I said 'purported'. But the way Boyens has talked up Galadriel as this mighty being - surely it's pointing towards this. Everything indicates that she'll have a pivotal role in the assault, and I can't see them passing up the opportunity.

[Incanus 5,715]

Could you provide some links to these comments by Boyens? I would be interested in reading them. I admit that I have not been very hotly following the Hobbit coverage and discussion elsewhere in the internet.

[Barnald 365]

Here you go: http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2012/07/16/59194-full-transcript-of-the-hall-h-hobbitcon-qa/

Galadriel, as you all know, is the most powerful being in Middle Earth, at the time. And we wanted to go in there and tell that story. We worked with Cate. We talked to her about the role. She did a phenomenal job. I was… I had my total geek-out moment when she stepped up. And, the battle of Dol Guldur. Let me just say that. It’s extraordinary.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Obviously she will lay waste the walls and foundations of Dol Guldur, it's black enmisaries will tremble before her and sue for pity. It's slaves will be set in joyous freedom while the slavers will sink into ashen pits!

The Dark Lord will scurry like a dog found stealing from the tables and hide, licking his wounds.

All will love her and despair!

[Barnald 365]

Will she then engage in a spot of 'slave-surfing' afterwards?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

"Mother!....mother!"

[Incanus 5,715]

Will she then engage in a spot of 'slave-surfing' afterwards?

On all four men assembled (presumably Elrond, Gandalf, Radagast and Saruman).

[chuck 154]

Will she then engage in a spot of 'slave-surfing' afterwards?

On all four men assembled (presumably Elrond, Gandalf, Radagast and Saruman).

Wow. An Unexpected LEMON Party!!!

[gkgyver 1,645]

Are you talking dirty stuff here, or what the hell is slave-surfing?

[crocodile 8,017]

Trust me, you don't want to know...

Karol

[Jay 37,368]

Wow.

[chuck 154]

[Faleel 5,350]

So i looked over the chapter titles in the Book, and I bet Inside Information will be one kick-butt cue!

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

the necromancer should be sauronish. Unless they unmask him in the film...and then it could be 100% sauron theme...

[Jay 37,368]

The Necromancer already has a second theme, it's used 3 times to bridge the descending third variant to the full Sauron's theme

[KK 3,307]

It's a real shame they chose to remove all those cool hints at Sauron's theme in the film...

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Faleel 5,350]

I think he is referring to the rising brass motif? the one that is somewhat similar to the "The Threat of Mordor' variation from Osgiliath Invaded, leading me to call it, "The Threat of Dol Guldur/The Necromancer"?

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[KK 3,307]

It's not a new theme. The Necromancer basically has two primary motifs, which are modulated variations of The Descending Third and the Mordor Skip-Beat. These two motifs were accompaniment devices in the original trilogy, so they're purpose is expanded in the new film to indirectly suggest Sauron's presence without ever really quoting his main theme (even though we hear some statements in this film). The Necromancer and Sauron are the one and the same after all, so Shore's decisions make sense and I agree with them. And I seriously doubt he'll be getting another new theme. We'll just likely hear the music transform into Sauron's full fledged theme.

I'm more excited about the direction Smaug's theme will take

[Faleel 5,350]

Mordor Skip-Beat.

Are you sure thats what its a variation of?

I thought the Skip-beat was the theme played in FOTR when Gandalf is going to read the account of Isildur, and when Frodo sees the Eye of Sauron in the Mirror of Galadriel?

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[KK 3,307]

Mordor Skip-Beat.

Are you sure thats what its a variation of?

I thought the Skip-beat was the theme played in FOTR when Gandalf is going to read the account of Isildur, and when Frodo sees the Eye of Sauron in the Mirror of Galadriel?

You're right.

This is the Mordor Skip-Beat:

This is the modulated version that appears in The Hobbit:

It's slowed down a lot with some pitch changes from how we heard it in LotR.

[Faleel 5,350]

Now is that the same theme that plays right before Radagast is attacked by the "Spirit of the Dead"?

[Jay 37,368]

Yes KK that's the theme I was talking about. Besides those two accompanying themes Shore already used the full Sauron theme 3 times in the score (I think they were all dropped from the film) so he probably won't be adding another theme, especially if Sauron's out of the picture by the end of film 2.

[KK 3,307]

Yup. Glad we're on the same page

[crocodile 8,017]

It's a real shame they chose to remove all those cool hints at Sauron's theme in the film...

Maybe it's a bit premature, story-wise?

Karol

[gkgyver 1,645]

I'm sure we will hear Sauron's theme fully when he joins the Battle of Five Armies.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Jay 37,368]

Spoiler tag about what?

[Faleel 5,350]

Sauron.

[Jay 37,368]

What about him? I don't have a clue if he'll be expunged from Dol Guldur in Film 2 or Film 3. I'm just speculating It's not like I have any inside information about these films. At this point, even PJ might not know which film that will happen in

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Jason for someone who has not read LOTR it's even a complete surprise that sauron will be in this film.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Jay 37,368]

Jason for someone who has not read LOTR it's even a complete surprise that sauron will be in this film.

Are you being serious right now? In the thread where we've spent a page discussing how Shore used various Sauron themes for The Necromancer, we shouldn't talk about how The Necromancer is really Sauron? You must be joking.

What about him? I don't have a clue if he'll be expunged from Dol Guldur in Film 2 or Film 3. I'm just speculating It's not like I have any inside information about these films. At this point, even PJ might not know which film that will happen in

Good and if you do you know what I'd like you to use

Huh?